ToffeeWeb - Season 2007-08

Michael Kenrick

AJ really is absolutely fucking dreadful. He has no idea how to control the ball. God knows how he scored that goal at Spurs... or any of his goals come to think of it (except one memorable one where he was "assisted" by Pepe!). I find watching him is an embarrassing frustration. I know we're to say things like this but there ya go. Tell me I'm wrong... but don't bother coz it won' make any difference to his headless chicken runs and aimless contribution. He "works hard"... doing what exactly? Pulling defenders out of position? Yea, very useful.

Mikhail Ridhuan
1 Posted 07/04/2008 at 02:34:43

He is not fully to blame for that. What about those endless width passes he has to contend with? He’s not going to turn with the ball, execute a deft trick or two to reel through the middle, he’s not good at that. But he’s better at chasing quick passes with the ball just ahead of him, preferably closer to goal.

But then, I’ve always felt he was overrated and nowhere near the clinical finisher he was brought up to be from his CP days...

Rob Jones
2 Posted 07/04/2008 at 02:50:42

Andy Johnson, where ’ya going?

To West Ham for an 8 figure fee hopefully.

Simply not good enough, nuff said

Stephen Stuart
3 Posted 07/04/2008 at 04:51:22

The answer to all these problems - crap players, poor displays, training injuries, tiredness, naff selection policy and losing to the BIG teams is simple - Moyes - the man who has taken 6 years to get us to where we are now - beating relegated Derby 1-0 - off to work now, see ya!

Ciaran Duff
4 Posted 07/04/2008 at 05:10:12

You?re right boys, he?s crap. What?s Andy Johnson ever done for us eh? Bugger all.
Ok, he has got 10 goals from 25 appearances this season but apart from that? Jack!
I suppose, if we had any half decent referees in EPL he might have gotten us about half a dozen penalties and we?d be in 4th now but apart from that - nuttin!
I guess he did get a few last year - ok it was 12 but apart from that - SFA.
Then there was that derby game where he got 2 I think but apart from that nada.
Should I stop now?

Ciaran Duff
5 Posted 07/04/2008 at 05:57:41

and Stephen, don’t get me started on that Moyesy!

Lyndon Lloyd
Editorial Team
6 Posted 07/04/2008 at 06:33:50

Andy Johnson is a goalscorer. He?s not a complete striker and he?s not a winger but is expected to be both for us at various times. He?s scored 10 goals from 25 starts, including a potentially crucial one that was ruled out at Blackburn and a brilliant finish away at West Ham.

Give him the ball in the box and he?ll score enough goals. But, like Yakubu, and even Beattie before him, he suffers from a basic lack of service where it counts ? in and around the six-yard box. As a team we play too deep, expect the strikers to create chances running at a wall of defenders and simply do not attack in sufficient numbers.

And if Arteta could consistently get a corner or free kick beyond the first man, the set-pieces AJ wins would make him even more valuable to the team. He?s not the problem, people ? and to say he is "fucking dreadful" is jaw-droppingly OTT, Michael, my good man ? it goes much deeper than him.

Richard Parker
7 Posted 07/04/2008 at 07:53:38

I’m definitely in the pro-AJ camp. And I truly believe that with good service he’ll bag a lot more.

Fair enough, he’s not the Yak, you don’t want the ball into his feet and you don’t expect him to produce a finish every time he has the ball.

BUT he worries defences with his pace and with balls ahead of him to run on to, he’ll outpace any defence.

Remember his finishes against Brann, I don’t care who it was against, the midfield put the ball in the right place and those finishes would have beaten any keeper. And 10 goals from a striker who has been out with niggles and on the bench for nearly half the season ain’t bad.

If we can get a couple more good midfielders to provide more ammo for AJ and Yak, then next season we could really be looking at quite a strike force. I think they complement each other well, with AJ creating the space that the Yak can exploit and the Yak holding the ball and releasing AJ on the run......

I think all our problems come from an unbalanced midfield, too reliant on 2 players to create.

Paul Smith
8 Posted 07/04/2008 at 07:56:17

Spot on Lyndon. There was an earlier thread regarding Beatties hat trick for Sheff Utd saying he had found his level but I disagree. The service he got here was terrible. He thrives off crosses something we still don?t do enough.

AJ is the same he needs good service to feed from and we struggle to give him that. That said though, he is not adverse to running up a blind ally but not to the extent that Chris and Michael are saying.

1 goal in 2.5 starts is a good ratio for a "second striker".

When was the last time we had 29 goals from 2 strikers by April never mind the end of the season????

Things could/need to be better but I think it is performances that are lacking rather than the quality of players (last week accepted as we didn?t have much choice in the personel department).

Mick Wrende
9 Posted 07/04/2008 at 08:09:01

If we get 20 goals from Yakubu and 10-15 from AJ every season then we will be right up there. The fact is the service to them is crap - I agree Johnson does tend to run away from goal but 95% of the time that is the direction he has to face to try and get these awful balls from the likes of Howard, Neville and Yobo.

Per Stumo
10 Posted 07/04/2008 at 08:48:21

I completely agree with Lyndon.. for me AJ was one of the few who I thought gave a decent performance against Derby. His strike partner was a lot worse, not only missing a sitter (shit happens) but generally playing poorly all throughout. You?d almost think it was he who?d been out injured for a few matches...

AJ isn?t perfect but if you pay attention he?s often forced to run towards the corner because that?s where Neville's bloody awful passes usually end up. That or over the line. It?s a bloody miracle that AJ still bothers to even chase those passes..

Mark Murphy
11 Posted 07/04/2008 at 09:00:39

Fair enough, he?s not the Yak,

Aint that the truth - he wouldn't have missed that fuckin sitter yesterday!

Seriously, I thought AJ looked alright yesterday. He?s just pushed wide by lots of balls down the channels, which, I think, is his role in this team.
The trouble is, with him in the team we are never going to get another penalty! Even he now doesn't even appeal for them even when he should.

Patty Beesley
12 Posted 07/04/2008 at 09:09:22

Andy Jphnson was the guy who scored two against the Shite last season in the Derby and I will always love him for that!! Why have a go at a guy who works hard for the team. Notice no-one is criticising the YAK for missing a sitter yesterday!!

Brian Richardson
13 Posted 07/04/2008 at 09:08:09

Michael, I violently disagree with your post! Needlessly aggressive and fundamentally wrong. Lyndon, great repost. Anybody who knows anything about football can see exactly how beneficial AJ is to us. These aimless runs you speak of give other players a breather, tire opponents, demoralise opponents (who get no time to rest and no time on the ball). His 10 goals from 25 starts would be welcome even if he wasn?t the most hard-working player in the Premier League. I?d go as far as to say he?s our most valuable and consistent player, in spite of some of the flaws Michael perceives.

Chris Fisher
14 Posted 07/04/2008 at 09:05:29

Well said Lyndon Lloyd, to say aj is fucking dreadful is definetly jaw droppingly ott. He is a very good player, he's probably a bit too nice and when Nev and co hits the 42nd long ball into the corner for him to chase he should turn round and tell him to fuck off instead of giving him the thumbs up!!! If he just turned round and looked pissed off and refused to chase it a couple of times maybe people would stop playing them god awful balls to him!! But then im sure certain people would be straight on here saying that he's got lazy and doesn't try anymore!!!

I think we?ve finally found a really good strike partnership and if AJand Yak can score as many goals as they have between them this season with the sometimes not exactly great service they're receiving then it could be a whole lot more with a bit more work!! Fernandes hasn't been great since he returned but its passes like his to Osman that we need to get to AJ and Yak!

Alan Codd
15 Posted 07/04/2008 at 09:10:12

In all fairness to AJ the service he recieved from the midfield is woeful at best.
I don't care how much Moyes harps on about Osman being a Central Midfielder (surely he's not considering this next year), he is simply not good enough at this level. Yes, a good finish yesterday but too lightweight and gets caught in possesion all the time.

Carsley's days are numbered. Although he has been tremendous for Everton he can't go on forever and to progress we need to improve this position. A natural winger would be a good addition and someone to show Arteta how to take set pieces (dosn't look interested to me) and beat the first man.

Neville aside, that was probably our best back four yesterday but now it's up to the board to back the manager and find some funds for improvements.

Leighton Cooper
16 Posted 07/04/2008 at 09:16:02

"EFC NEEDS: new holding midfielder - Carsley is not proficient enough on the ball. Every top team has an influential player at this position, see Carrick, Mascherano, Makelele etc. "

You just happen to mention the holding players that play for the richest 3 clubs in the league, Carrick and Mascherano both cost 18 odd million, im not sure how much Makele cost but his wages alone are well over 100k a week, we just can not compete with teams like that in the transfer market. Carsley does a crucial job for us, in a dirty-ugly sort of way, the amount of tackles and blocks he makes is crucial, he constantly puts his neck on the line by going in where most people would shy out

Tony Part
17 Posted 07/04/2008 at 09:51:20

Yes I suppose we get rid of AJ and then what will we do with the money? Perhaps sign the deadly David Nugent or another muppet from the leagues below who we are never likely to see start a match i:e Scott Spencer.. Dont forget we will only be in the UEFA Cup next season, it's not that big an attraction..

James McCarthy
18 Posted 07/04/2008 at 09:00:28

A typical coaching analysis of AJ would show,
Speed is his main or some might say only attribute.
Positional play, Shit.
Ball skills. Rubbish
Heading. Your kidding!
First touch. subelty of a 22 lb sledge hammer.
Strength when tackled. Your havin a laugh.
Possession play. Does a split second count?
His size ? might worry a 5-foot nothing centre half.
The only service he can use is a perfectly weighted ball that lands within playing distance and without him having to break stride. Nor must it be above waist height.
If he is running into the box and not in the direction of a corner flag it would be even better.
Other than the great Maradonna I know of no midfielder who could deliver such a ball to a target that is dissapearing into the distance at a rate of knots.

Tom Freestone
19 Posted 07/04/2008 at 09:49:54

I’m not the biggest AJ fan and was unsure (to put it mildly) when we paid that amount for him but I agree with Lyndon here - he is being asked to do, essentially, two jobs for the team. One of the main reasons we see him run towards the corner flag every game is becasue he’s chasing the ball! It’s the ’deft’ chips towards the corner flags that have to stop. Every now and again, fine - choose a moment when the full back is out of position, but it’s our default ball these days, and almost every player is guilty of playing it.

AJ gets alot of (deserved) priase for doing all that chasing, and wins more than his fair share of corners and free kicks when he puts full backs under pressure, but do you honestly believe he wouldn’t prefer balls played in front of him, down the channels and, perhaps, within 5 yards of him? Of course he would.

I don’t think he’s a natural finisher, but the service he gets most of the time is just bad, plain and simple.

Chris Kelly - ’buy someone else like Cahill’? Simple - why didn’t I think of that? Somehow I don’t think it’s that easy...

Michael - a valid opinion, yes, but needlessly agressive in its expression. Plus, ’woking hard to pull defenders out of position’. Not useful, eh? Cahill would probably disagree with you there, as would Osman after his goal yesteday - it’s how midfielders get space. It’s a shame they don’t take advantage more often though, but that’s another gripe for another thread...

Mike Williams
20 Posted 07/04/2008 at 09:21:01

When Moyes bought AJ he was our most expensive signing and everybody, including me, hoped he would do well at the club. He hasn’t. AJ has become a ?second striker? because he’s ineffective. Many are citing lack of service as the reason and I?m sure better service would help him but you can?t deny that the service the Yak gets is any better, yet he still manages to score more goals (or has fit into our style of play better). AJ may have scored two against the Shite last season but what about the two missed UEFA penalties this season? It?s a fact, he?s lost his confidence, or whatever, ever since he was called a diver by Wenger last season. Since then, i.e. for a season and half, he has been useless (how much longer should we give him?) and people justify this by conveniently classifying him as a second striker. I don?t want Everton to have a second striker, I want us to have two first strikers. To my mind here?s AJ?s negatives: he won?t challenge with head or foot; he rarely competes for balls; he loves running to the corner flag or after no hope balls; he?s not that fast (I?ve don?t see him skinning defenders); his technical ability on the ball is not very good; and *the* nail in the coffin, he doesn?t score enough goals?and his positives: he?s fit and tireless; he sometimes steals balls from midfielders from behind; he has a high work rate (but to what avail). Does anybody seriously believe we would be where we are now if we didn?t have the Yak and AJ was our main goal scoring threat? In the Premiership he?s score only 6 goals: the same as Lescott and one less than Cahill. He is not good enough.

Jason Lam
21 Posted 07/04/2008 at 10:07:28

Brian Richardson, I agree with you. I believe his presence would increase our win chances, even though he may not be on the end of the goals. Blame the midfield for forcing AJ to play a team role, but that sounds silly. Everton’s style relies heavily on a collective team effort. 10 goals from Lescott, 10 goals from Cahill. The players are like chess players, they are strategically positioned all over the pitch. Of course the players up front have more goal scoring chances than those at the back, but over the 90mins and the chosen strategy, goals may appear from somewhere else, from a less likely source. Forwards are therefore just strategically positioned higher up the field.

Sometimes our forwards are battling rams or decoys for the likes of Cahill to score the goals. AJ is an important integral part of this Everton.

Andrew Fletcher
22 Posted 07/04/2008 at 10:16:37

Why cant people see that Moyes’s tactics are the downfall off our strikers. To expect the ball to be held up with 1 or maybe 2 strikers playing and then to attack the goal with 4 defenders and 4 midfielders in position is ridiculous.

Fact: We dont get enough players in the box.

Look at Boro yesterday against Utd, they attacked, got players forward and were unlucky not to win the game.

If I were AJ or Yak et al I would seriously be thinking, "Is this the type of football I want to play for the next 4/5 years?" I damn well wouldnt.

I have felt sorry for AJ running for 90 minutes on his own with the crowd expecting him to beat 8 men, fucking ridiculous.
Get real will you.

Richard Parker
23 Posted 07/04/2008 at 10:22:00

Mike W - it’s kinda hard to have 2 first strikers when you play the majority of matches with one striker.

AJ was on the Nike ’top-10 Premiership Fastest players’ as number 1 a while back, there was a link on Toffeeweb to it.

The biggest problem is that he’s fast running after passes away from goal. If he had something to run on to towards goal, then maybe he’d leave a few defenders behind......

He is the wrong type of player to expect to play alone up front and score regularly, which he has been asked to do on many an occasion. It would be interesting to see how many of his 25 appearances have been in a 4-5-1.

You can’t compare him and the Yak - they are totally different players. The ideal is that Moyes puts together a 4-man midfield in the summer that can allow the 2 strikers to play regularly together and build a partnership. Then I’m sure the return from both AJ and the Yak will improve.

AJ is good enough, but it’s possible that he’s just not going to fit in, depending upon who we buy this summer.

Erik Dols
24 Posted 07/04/2008 at 10:38:50

I think Moyes knows the strikers doesn’t get the best support. With the limited resources and the terrible starting conditions squadwise he chose to build a hard-to-beat team from the back out with defensive assurances in the first place. With the buying of players like Pienaar and Baines Moyes is trying to get in players who do have the ability to give that decisive through ball (Pienaar) or do rush across the pitch along the sideline and delicer a decent cross (Baines).

I really expect Moyes to choose his big money summer signing a creative midfielder who can dictate our attacking play to make it more of a passing game. Let’s just hope we have the money to sign a real great one.

John Lloyd
25 Posted 07/04/2008 at 11:12:13

Its amazing the brazeness of some people, its obvious that a lot of people on this thread have absolutley no understanding of the game or play too much Pro-Evo/Fifa and think that its that easy but you come on these sites with your ?knowledgeable outbursts? and pearls of wisdom such as ?get another player like Cahill who stays fit?????? WTF???

As for the recent Johnson baiting, look at his stats, look at how many penalties he should've won for us if the refereing standards were any good, look at the tireless running he does chasing down bad, bad balls for players who are seemingly rarely scrutinised & look how much we missed him when he was injured.

Nah fuck that, lets sell him and buy Riquelme, Raul, Eto?o and whoever else scored loads of goals for you on Champ, you muppets.

John Murphy
26 Posted 07/04/2008 at 11:23:11

I think that this criticism of Andy Johnson is extremely harsh. No he is not the best striker we have ever had, but he certainly is not the worst. The lad runs his socks off for the whole 90 minutes, and our playing style does not exactly help him either does it. Big hoofs up field towards one of the smallest players in the side, doesn’t make much sense if you ask me. We need a midfielder who can get the ball down, and play through balls along the ground. A fully fit and on form Manuel Fernandes is that man...

Paul Tran
27 Posted 07/04/2008 at 13:29:52

The comments about AJ are interesting.

It all stems from this strange idea that the job of a striker is to run and track back. It is when you buy strikers who can’t score and combine it with a lack of possession and creativity.

Johnson has a good goalscoring record. I agree that his confidence was dented by all the ’diving’ stuff, so what’s been done about it?

He knows that Moyes likes players who ’work hard’ so he’s concentrating on tireless running and teamwork at the expense of his real job - to score goals.

Now that we’re starting to buy better players this ’work hard’ bollocks is coming home to roost. Yakubu is criticised for being lazy and ’not an Everton player’ He lets the ball do the work, gets into scoring positions and scores lots of goals. That’s his job. I’d fine him every time he goes near our box.

We’ve done well this season, but we’re only going to progress further by buying players who are footballers rather than athletes. They’re the ones who are less likely to be mentally tired at the end of the season. Moyes appears to be learning the difference between honest, mid-table toilers and the class necessary to turn 5th into 4th. Let’s hope Bill has deep pockets and lets Moyes spend plenty of it in the summer!

Jon Hazlehurst
28 Posted 07/04/2008 at 13:43:07

Andrew Fletcher is spot on. C?mom, any criticism surely has to begin with the managers? tactics and our style of play. Honestly, we could make the best striker in the world look ordinary at the moment.

The long balls played up, primarily from Howard, despite having full-backs in space, really hurts to watch and are undoubtedly the instructions of the manager, probably in light of the team's current lack of confidence. Good to at least see Baines scream at Howard at one point for doing this during yesterday's game.

I?m quite stunned that Andrew has been singled out. I fully expected a bit of a Yakubu backlash online today, not just for his shocking performance yesterday but his general attitude (and his error against Liverpool cost us).

I?m with Lyndon, I?m a fan of AJ, and still rate him highly. I think he?s quality, so much better than we?ve had to put up with in recent seasons. It?s just so unfortunate he hasn?t shaken off his persistent injury fully.

If AJ was missing loads of chances I?d criticise him too, but he?s not really. When fit, he isn?t getting anywhere like decent service at the moment in my opinion. I know where you're coming from Chris, it?s not pretty but I think the lack of an attacking midfielder and our defensive style is highlighting AJ?s weak hold-up play. Yes he?s more effective away from home where there?s space behind, and at home when opponents sit deep, maybe AJ?s committment alone isn?t enough, maybe James Vaughan or Cahill will be ahead of AJ in the pecking order at the start of next season, I don?t know, but criticism of Andrew certainly isn?t warranted in my opinion.

Andrew Fletcher
29 Posted 07/04/2008 at 15:22:16

Paul Tran, your right. Even on a Sunday morning football and decent Saturday level I manage at, the best players are always the ones that know where to be on the pitch, who can pass and receive a ball, good first touches.

I never picked a team of eleven men just because they are really fit and run like the wind.

Brian Waring
30 Posted 07/04/2008 at 15:57:00

Apart from his pace, I agree with the lad a few post?s up. AJ?s first touch is dreadful, and his positional play also leaves a lot to be desired. But, I lay the blame at Moyes?s door. We have a striker here, who is one of the quickest in the Prem, and should be played right down the middle, were he can use that pace, but Moyes alway?s seem?s to have him almost playing as a winger at times. At the end of the day, if we don?t play to his strength, he is almost going to be non-existent most games, apart from chasing hoofed ball?s into the corners.

Terry Downes
31 Posted 07/04/2008 at 16:34:17

I wouldn't mind selling AJ to West Ham and buying Bent off Spurs... or even a swop.

John Martin
32 Posted 07/04/2008 at 17:51:00

The biggest reason for Johnsons lack of goals comes down to our midfield not being creative enough, Get a midfield who actually play some through balls to him down the middle and he might actually run in on goal as opposed to chasing the ball into a corner. I laughed my head off at some of the reasons given and knew somehow Neville would get the blame as a right back he is now to blame for lack of creativity.
Johnson isnt the greatest but how many are.

Chris Kelly
33 Posted 07/04/2008 at 17:28:26

I just woke up over on this side of the pond. Nice chat going!

Sure Andy Johnson is a nice player. Sure he?s fast. Sure he works his ass off. Sure he "should have gotten us half a dozen more penalties." (but sadly, reputation preceding him, he hasn?t). Look, he scores wonder goals when we don?t need them, disallowed one?s when we do, the lad?s a mess. 6 goals in the EPL!!! what a return!

I know he gets shit balls from Neville (a player who has no business starting for us) and the like, but when I see him take on a defender and 9 out of 10 times go for the corner, I?m aghast. Use your speed and use your fucking head! Where?s the goal, it?s not in the corner! Everyone on the team is headed for goal, and he?s taking the ball outside to two awaiting defenders.

In truth, he?s not good enough for a top 4 team and we?ve outgrown him. No problem, it?s happened many times before and hopefully it?s a problem that will continue to happen.

But we shouldn?t sell him before we can get some cover. Looking at our squad, we need every body we can get. But what cannot happen is Aj?s insipid performances stunting the growth of Vic and Vaughn. Than the whole team will be effected.

Side note to John Lloyd: Tim Cahill is my favorite player. And by the looks of it, one of, if not our most important player. But life is about results and the boy can?t keep himself on the pitch. Harsh, but true...I?m certainly not saying we should get rid of him. Alex Ferguson would certainly buy a player to cover.

Chris Kelly
34 Posted 07/04/2008 at 18:38:30

And....

I had said that we need a new holding midfielder and cited Mascherano, Makelele and Carrick etc.

I know we can?t afford them Mr Cooper. That wasn?t the point. The point is it?s a very important position and one that needs to be addressed with a £10 million + purchase in the off-season. Someone who not just flies around lunging at tackles, but someone that can distribute and start the play from the back as well.

Robbie Muldoon
35 Posted 07/04/2008 at 21:42:36

MOYES TURNS STRIKERS TO SHIT.

This is because his Everton sides supply awful service. When we have played well this season it has been when Arteta, Pienaar, and Cahill have been on song providing an attcking midfield. Lose Cahill and Pienaar and a very poor Arteta means no service. Playing Phil Neville in midfield ahead of Fernandes is just shocking. Fuck off, Moyes!