Did they break down how many were forward versus sideways or backwards passes? And did they count Andy Johnson racing onto a punt in the corner as a completed pass that another player with less pace might not have reached?

Sorry to sound flippant, Brian, but often Neville's first instinct is to look backwards for a pass. Now, that is actually a good thing as it's preferable to him slicing it into to touch or hoofing it straight to the opposition, but it merely highlights for me how badly we need to address the right-back position and get players in who are more comfortable with the ball at their feet.

I would surmise that the percentage would have been considerably below 70% yesterday Brian.

3 times on the bounce I correctly predicted a slice out of play.

Any stats that rate Neville as a half good player has no provenance in my book!

He’s just ok. Average player that can do the simple things but that’s it. I don’t see how there’s any more discussion.

Maybe he?s become an unfair target for the boo-boys, but I only seem to notice him for what he doesn?t do and for what he does badly.

For all his heart and professionalism the only forward ?passes? I see him make involve him lumping it down the touchline for a throw in to the opposition. Knocking it back to Howard or playing it square has become more his forte

The pass that Manny made for Ossie?s goal would never even been attempted by Nev, which is why when DM plays Nev and Cars in centre mid we lose possession so easily. Cars is a stopper and Nev will pass the ball back to Joey Yobo who generally just hoofs it forward...

Stan, yes, he has become a target.
People cannot let go his shortcomings as a forward thinking Central Midfielder and so Neville takes a lot of shit these days. But there is a simple reason for this, He is not that kind of player, he’s a right back!
I think because we watch him week in week out failing to be Kaka, everyone notices when his passes aren’t cross filed raking, defense spiltting balls, but the fact is that he is a fantastic leader for the team and although I will get shot down for this by blinkered fans, his crosses when he plays at RB are often half decent. Now I am very much pro Moyes (who isn’t these days!!!) but neville takes shit for Moyes lack of options/creativity thus not playing him where he is good. We need to stop hating our devoted captain so much!
It doesn’t surprise me at all that he is accurate and yes he may generally be defensively minded, but what the hell, Id rather he passed it back to someone who CAN play that pass than feel the need to be the creative force.
Back our captian and hopefully by next season we will only see him at RB and we will have a world class CM in there instead!
(Deep breath...and hold...)

Richardson, what exactly are you saying, that your happy with Phil Neville? It’s settling for the mediocre, ball hoofing, possession losing, cows arse with a banjo shooting Phil Neville that will stifle the progress most fans are looking for. Neville as a captain sends out a message to the rest of the side during the big games that we should just lump the ball forward at all costs thus gifting possession back to the opposition and putting us back under pressure (Fiorentina first leg is one example from a long list) This is precisely the sort of player we need to get shut of in the summer and you sound perfectly happy - stop reading the statistics and open your eyes!!!!

I maybe blinkered as I attended my only 4th game of the season yesterday but what stood out yesterday was the way he was always available for Tim Howard. I cannot imagine hibbert doing this. I know he gets a lot of stick but he never seems to hide and not want the ball.

As the post said previously, the ball he put in for the first chance of the game which was given a foul was a great cross.

He is not the greatest footballer, but I think that he is by far the best captain we have had for a long time. He certainly has the respect of the players and the media (even though his house is full of tack).

Our top three according to Setanta are Fernandes, Arteta and Pienaar.

1. Manuel Fernandes 81% of passes competed
2. Mikel Arteta 79% of passes completed
3. Steven Pienaar 79% of passes completed

Neville has completed 71% of his passes which is a decent record but he does pass the ball alot more than the others mentioned because Howard’s first instinct being a right handed goal keeper is the throw it to Neville.

How crazy it is that our captain is also our worst player. Someone for everyone else to look up to - yeh right.

Whatever people say about Neville is their call. I suspect many people who comment read the papers, listen to the radio and read other people?s comments on forums.

In the main, when playing CM he was playing with Carsley and trying to be the more forward thinking of the 2. He is not a CM, we all know that. Moreover, he is not a creative CM. Watch him in the old days when he played there instead of Keane for United. He played with Scholes... not Carsley. He got the ball and played it simple to Scholes, Beckham and Giggs. At Everton, he doesn?t have the "simple" ball as an option as players around don?t move and create space. Therefore, he is doing something that he can?t do, hence the errors. It?s like putting Arteta as a centre back. It?s not his forte so therefore, don?t knock him.

As a defender, he is sound. He has good positional sense, never hides and has good organisational skills (he made more noise than 36000 people on Sunday, as I?m sure only the ones on here who go to games are aware.

People don?t like him because he played for United... it?s not for any other reason. Why not support him and look at the good things he does as they far far far outweigh the bad.

I have asked this before and not got a response so I must ask it again: Why the hell do we scrutinize our right backs more than any other player ? Ever since I have supported Everton I have seen our RB’s get far more stick than any other players.
Are there better RB’s than Neville ? Yes.
Are there better midfielders than Cahill, Pienaar and Arteta ? Yes. In our last 4 games we have conceded two goals whilst picking up just 4 points so from my persective it sounds like more of an issue with our midfielders and attackers than our full backs. A RB can support the right midfielder but primarily our Right midfielder should be the creative source from that side of the field. We also have a LB who can support our left midfielder and get this folks ... we also have central midfielders AND strikers who should all be ahead of any RB in terms of creating openings.

I saw Fernandes’ pass and it didn’t blow my mind. I could have done that pass. It was technically pretty simple just an inside of the foot slightly curving slow pass which was roughly in the direction of Osman. It wasn’t that bloody great. It wasn’t a Matt le Tiss move or a Zola trick it was just a straight forward pass of the variety that most half decent central midfielders routinely make. Personally I would like to know why fans think it’s a good idea to spend 5 or 10 million on Manny on the back of when pass when he has done NOTHING for the last 3 months. Neville on the other hand can take some credit as a defender in a side that has conceded very few goals. Earlier in the season when Nev wasn’t at the back we couldn’t keep a clean sheet whereas now that he is at the back we can. Is there a connection ? I would say that there is but what do I know because I was one of the minority who didn’t want to sign the goal machine David Nugent for 10 million or cry about missing out on Manny for 12 million.

Kieran, this particular right back deserves special scrutiny because he has played a lot of games in central midfield and as such as been a complete liability. As such it’s brought under the microscope an analysis of what he offers at all as a player in the side. Ok, he’s alright at RB but I don’t buy this captains influence horse shit one bit. As mentioned above the guy is not comfortable with a football at his feet and his first instinct his to get rid rather than apply some composure and pass along the ground to a fellow player. To be honest, it’s just not in him to do that because he’s just not capable. Fans crave for a player who can produce something out of nothing and we don’t have many of those. Give me Fernandes over Neville any time of the week

"I saw Fernandes's pass and it didn't blow my mind. I could have done that pass. It was technically pretty simple just an inside of the foot slightly curving slow pass which was roughly in the direction of Osman."

Kieran Kinsella, You would say that though wouldn?t you. Sitting on your backside at the game or watching on TV. It does look a quite simple pass. On the pitch its a different matter though.

Why have none of the everton players bar Fernandes this season picked a pass out like that this season? More or less a through ball closer to the half way line than the penalty box. People have mentioned Pienaar?s pass away at Derby and yes that was a classy pass but its was alot closer to the area than Fernandes?s pass.

Fact is none of our team would have even attempted that pass. Pienaar would have looked for the give and go, Arteta and Osman would have looked short. Fernandes cut inside, got his head up and picked out Osman?s run perfectly. The fact that is completely fooled the centre halves was equally impressive. The pass was excellent and so was Osman?s movement.

I haven?t seen someone attempt a pass like that since Gravesen in the 04-05 season. Gravesen on a good day is the only midfielder in our squad who can match Fernandes?s vision and ability to pick the unpredictable pass. I?ve seen better passes yes in fact I?ve seen Fernandes make better passes in the Arsenal game last season but not from a current member of the Everton squad this season.

"Personally I would like to know why fans think it's a good idea to spend 5 or 10 million on Manny on the back of when pass when he has done NOTHING for the last 3 months."

Your making out like he?s actually played alot in the 3 months he?s been hear. He?s started 6 games mate and those 6 games have been interrupted by injuries. He?s had no time to to get any momentum or build his lack of fitness up. Every player needs time and gets to get into rhythm and Fernandes hasn?t been given that chance. Its easy to say he?s done nothing without actually looking at the bigger picture.

People want him bought on what they saw last season in the 10 games he played. He was fitter, he?d played at Portsmouth and was able to get right into action as soon as he joined. He showed what he can offer to the team. I?m certainly not judging him on one pass.

Fernandes over Neville every time for me also. I don?t mind Neville but I feel to be a captain and continually starting in the team you need to show some form and have some decent games and he hasn?t done that this season.

What is this "Fernandes over Neville" garbage? One is an imaginative, unpredictable midfielder, the other is a solid right-back. Why are we comparing them?

And Newell, yes, I am very happy with Neville. Too many fans are quick to get on his back, partly because he’s ex-Man U. As was mentioned above, his versatility means people expect him to play the RB position as if he’s a midfielder. Here’s some news for you: it’s a different position and should therefore be played in a diifferent manner. Neville has plenty of flaws (show me a RB in this country who doesn’t) but he does not deserve anywhere near the amount of stick he gets.

As for the comment that Neville’s passing must have slipped well below 70% yesterday - wrong, I’m afraid. He had the second highest pass accuracy on the park.

Evidence, if it were needed, that too many people have a blinkered view of his contributions.

Lyndon Lloyd has raised a point that is so obvious and fundamental to the concept of passing that personally I’m at pains as to why people can’t see the obvious.

The fundamental concept of passing is an action between two players. Two. Both players have to cooperate to successfully complete a pass. 50% on one player to correctly execute the pass, another 50% on the receiver to get into space and collect the pass. It is NOT 100% credit to the player executing the pass. You may argue with Platini that he should get close to 80% credit for finding the impossible pass but still you need a player to receive it properly.

Pip hoofing the ball to AJ who subsequently scores against Wigan is also a ’pass’, according to the fucking useless statistics. Our great captain even claimed it was a pass, to which AJ responded by saying ’it was a fucking hoof up the field!’.

Statistics are fucking meaningless unless you’re in athletics or american sports. Or some Premier Manager PC game. C’mon!

Brian Richardson, Neville gets stick because he continually aimlessly boots the ball up the park without thinking about passing short or having any composure whatsoever.

Its got nothing to do with him being a Manc or because he once played for Utd. Tim Howard played for Man utd and I think he’s an excellent keeper personally.

All I care about are performances on the pitch and Pip rarely gives a good all round performance. Its not that hard to have one impressive game. A limited player like Lee Carsley has a few and season and is consistent and I don’t see why Neville is different.The fact that he demands a place in the team week in week out despite being woeful is beyond me and for me your captain should be one of your more consistent players which Neville isn’t.

What I don’t like about him is his lack of composure despite playing for the biggest club in the world at one point. The fact that he fails to make a 5 yard pass, the fact that he’s the first player in the team to go long whether its in Europe or in the Premier League.

I think anyone who watched us against Fiorentina could see Neville was our week link. You had Lescott a centre half by trade, supporting his fullback, being composed on the ball and getting involved. On the other side you had Neville naturally a right back, continually conceding possession and hitting long to AJ’s head. He is a weak link that needs to be replaced.

I don’t agree with this bollocks because he’s on the ball the most in the team he never hides. He gets the ball the most in the team because when we attack Howard’s first aim being a right handed goalie is to throw out to his right back. If he was left handed then the likes of Baines and Lescott would be on the ball the most.

He has far more weaknesses than strengths if where judging by this season. His passing his poor, he backs off far to much, his tackling is rash and even his crossing that was impressive last season has been average. I agree he’s a good talker and a good leader but that alone shouldn’t mean he is always in the team.

As a squad player he’d be excellent. He can fill in three roles, he’s experienced and he just about does a decent job but he shouldn’t be in the team unless he is on form and deserving off a place in the team.

We had 5 decent goalscoring opportunities on sunday, shall I list them.

1. Osman - from a cross by Neville, gave a free kick away. That was the first decent cross of the game after 3 miserable attempts by Arteta.

2. Yakubu - cross by Baines.

3. Osman - goal good ball from Fernandes.

4. Lescott - picked out in the area by.......Nevile.

5. Osman - picked out in the area by.........oh my god...... Neville


So for someone who only ever slices the ball out of play, he’s set up sixty per cent of our goalscoring opportunities AND been the best part of a back four to keep a clean sheet.

I think some people only see what they want to see and base their opinion of Phil Neville the right back on Phil Neville the out if position midfielder. It was the same with Jagielka till we started playing him in his proper position

Heres a crazy stat - How many league games have we lost when Neville has started at right back?

1 - at Fulham where he was moved to the midfield and Hibbert went to right back after 10 minutes

I'm sure you could use this as a stick to beat Neville's midfield perofrmances with and Hibbert?s right back performances (You?d be right) - but though he?s useless in the middle - Neville is a good full back - I?m struggling to think of any times he?s been given a good roasting by the winger he?s been up against this season and for a time (I dont know if he still is) his crossing accuracy was up there with the leagues best.

Neville is disliked because he is ex Man Utd. He has poor games like everyone else but he has to overcome his playing history before he even gets started in some peoples eyes. He is the equal of Hibbert defensively and going forward there is no comparison. When Hibbert is playing he rarely overlaps and the players are reluctant to give it to him due to his obvious shortcomings.

Could we have a better right back then Neville? Of course we could - if we are prepared go out and spend the dough. Personally I think there is a more pressing problem - the midfield....We are two or three players light in the middle of the park. We lack quality, speed and aggression when compared against the Sky four.

If we can just find (big ask!) the players who have the craft and guile to make things happen in the middle of the park we will not be too far away. Spending money (any money) on a right back is ridiculous. Strengthen the midfield - arguing about Neville merely distracts from the main problem.

What is all this shite about him being an ex Man Ure player? Who gives a shite where he came from and if you have a problem with a Manc playing for us then you need your head seeing to.

I base my opinions on what I see at the match and I have always said that Neville is better in the forward position than Hibbert but Hibbert is by far the better defender, however, to say that Hibbert doesn’t overlap and they don’t pass to him is a load of twaddle.

The number of attacks that have come down the right side with Hibbert and Arteta would be extremely high, Hibbert does receive the ball from Howard often and then he looks for the short pass to Arteta and then runs up the line. If he plays again this season Alan, watch him carefully and I think it will change your perception of him.

Neville on the other hand, in his own half, will usually don his "Rhino" head and eaither float the ball to the corner or out of play.

He must be told to hoof it down the line OTHERWISE HE WOULD GET DROPPED.

Blame the manager for playing him. He picks the team.

It is the same as Neville and Carsley in the middle of midfield - DAVEY IT DOESN’T FUCKIN WORK.

Because of where I live and a young family I’ve only been able to go to Goodison twice in the last 2 seasons...both times Pip has scored...quality player:-)

Richardson, you obviously refuse to acknowledge how limited a player Phil Neville is so I’d agree with Jason Lam’s last paragraph - stick to Championship Manager 08