Oh give me strength. These rumors about Arteta have been going on for two years now, so if there is no smoke without fire then this is the slowest burning fire in history. He exchanged some words with a few fans because they were giving him hell for having a poor game, along with just about every other player on Sunday. Bentley aint coming to Everton, Downing just signed a new contract a month ago, Barnes is hardly proven as a replacement for Arteta.

This has been one of Arteta’s poorer seasons, but he’s also had his fair share of nagging injuries and that seems to have been coupled with a loss of form. His set pieces have been poor recently, but for 80% of his time here they have been very good. He’ll have time to work on them in the offseason and I’m sure he’ll be back to his normal self. For the first half of the season he was regularly getting good corners and crosses in to set up Lescott on the other end. Players go through bad patches, but we don’t need to be selling one of our best to buy another. We need to be adding quality to assist the quality players we already have. That means signing Fernandes and giving him a full preseason with Arteta, Pienaar, Yakubu, Cahill and Osman. I don’t want to see a single player leave with the exception of Gravesen and Van der Meyde. Other than them two I want 3 or 4 additions, allowing some of our weaker players to become squad players, and providing competition in the team for the best players to keep improving or lose their spot.

We?d have more midfielders than Spurs!





Well, maybe not quite that many.

We need to see if Arteta Pienaar and Fernandes can all play together after a full pre season.

With the signing of one more first team midfielder to slot in next to Fernandes, we should have a class centre.

Are you on smack????

Why when we can have them all playing alongside each other? The likes of Arteta, Pienaar, Fernandes and Osman are the future and if we want the best football possible then these players have to be available.

I very much doubt Arteta will leave. Maybe in a few years time but not now. The club is improving all the time and Arteta will be part of that.

Having read Moyes’s comments on Fernandes I think there is a chance he could stay. Moyes obviously rates him highly and realizes he’s a player who needs to settle down and be loved. Personally I hope thats at Everton and if the proce is right I’m sure he’ll be ours.

We should be looking at building our team around these two players. I think a big, powerful holding midfielder is needed to make our flair/creative players more effective.

I cannot believe all this rubbish about fans thinking its best to sell Arteta, the man is brilliant hes not even played that badly but because its not up to his usual high standards it's seen as him being rubbish and not adding anything to our squad..... Some of you guys need to sort youselves out, do you really think we would be best off without him? Yeah, let's sell him for £12M, that will do us the world of good! It annoys me so much that you can turn on a player of such quality and insist we get rid, what planet are you on??

Arteta is our best creative player by a mile why would we want to sell him except for £25 million if we had to?

I noticed that Arteta was getting heckled by some of our more valued and wise supporters. I wonder if the bloke who ran on the pitch to berate Trevor Steven in the 1989 cup final was there. There was another shit player- Trevor Steven. We weren’t half better when we sold him ! Sarcasm over- even when below par and injured Arteta saw more of the ball on Sunday than the rest of the midfield put together. Let him have an op, rest him over Summer and watch him next season- unless he has not been driven out by so called supporters giving him grief FFS

Despite all the other rubbish in this post I think there is something there with Fernandes, I too think he will grow into a player of world class and we don't sign him at our peril.
I believe If we don't pick him up then one of our so called big 4 will.

Arteta's worst season is still miles better than most. But he has been playing a long time now whilst not fit - plain as day. He probably needs an op and will have it once 5th place is safe.

Fernandes - £12 million - dream on - the lad must sort his life out if he is to have a career at all let alone at Everton. Personally I would go to maybe £6 million but I won?t be heartbroken if we don?t sign him at all. If the rumours do turn out to be true and Arteta goes well we move on and get over it. His ability and class would cost an awful lot of money to replace though.

Me, I want to see Mikel in an Everton shirt for years to come but I want him 100% fit not the pale shadow we have had for the last months.

The rumours about Arteta are never going to go away because he is so desparate to play for Spain that until we do start to play CL football on a regular basis he is always gonna be thinking "what if..." In the meantime I certainly don?t want him to go and think we should make the most of him while bringing in a young right sided prospect to keep him on his toes and to give us another different option. I am told that this Kightly lad from Wolves has a lot of talent and is quick too but I?m not sure if he is a right sided player or not.

Selling Arteta, Gary Tudor? Please...you are just messing with us. Dont you have anything better to do?

OK lets re-think the proposition:
Would you sell Arteta if we signed a player who can deliver a set piece, turn defenders inside out and get a 10+ goals a season?
I certainly would. I am not saying that Fernandes is the answer but the world is not short of world class cultured Midfielders-Strikers maybe but not midfielders. To go forward we must not look back and I struggle to remember Arteta’s last good performance. I doubt very much that Arteta’s form is solely down to fitness. He has not cut the mustard for some time, and I feel a fresh pair of legs would not be the end of the world. In an Ideal world yes keep him, but Moyes has said he is happy with squad numbers and if we sign too many creative Midfielders it can unbalance the side.

Just throwing it out there but why not keep Arteta and buy Fernades!

I know a crazy idea that we could buy a player with out selling one but some club do this it gives them a larger squad of quality players so all the pressure doesnt rest on one players shoulders.

Fernandes is not a replacement for Arteta. They are both top drawer players that can play in the same midfield. If we could add Gareth Barry to Arteta, Fernandes, Pienaar and Cahill and we have a top class midfield. Add Ledley and Bullard to the squad along with Osman and Carsley and we have some good options too.

I dont care who we buy/sell/keep blah blah blah. As long as there?s quality and improvement in the team next season too challenge the RS for that 4th even 3rd spot.

COYB...................

For me that would be one hell of a kick in the teeth..Ok Arteta has not had the best of seasons but you try playing with groin and hernia problems for six months and see how you cope. Even Fabregas has faded since November when he has started playing with injuries and not fully fit but that is the same reason as Arteta has had to play at Everton..Squad size... For the past three seasons Arteta has been as good as any midfielder in this league and now some thicko thinks afer a season of below par form due to injuries and perhaps even confidence we should get shut of him.. I have nothing against Fernandes and I would actually love to see him stay even on another years loan so we can have a longer look at him but he has an enormous way to go before he can be classed better than Arteta... Why on earth do we want to sell one of our younger and better players? Ok if Arteta wants to leave then we can do nothing but get the best deal for him preferably from a Spanish club but if he is happy then fucking thank your lucky stars..This club is just starting to move forward again after nearly two decades of mediocre poorly-managed bollocks and to start culling your best players would be suicidal.. Sell Arteta there is nobody better to replace him with because nobody better will come to Everton unless we are either in the Champions League or willing to pay them 100 grand a week... Who is available and better anyway? Riquelme? 29 years old.. Kevin Nolan? Dont make me laugh... Stewart Downing?. My left foot and err...my left foot.. Who else?? I just hope that this thread is confined merely only to Noddy Land and stays theres as it bears no reality or logic at all..Yes its all about opinions I grant that but this thread is one that should stay firmly in the nut house..

I’m just thankfull that the wonderful Arteta displays far more loyalty than the so called fans currently berating him and suggesting we sell him.

Duncan Ferguson used to play week in week out in agony, sometimes a little ineffective as a result, because we needed him and we loved him for it. In an age of so called mercenary foreigners we’ve seen Arteta largely do the same - turn in many weeks playing in pain.

Arteta = modern day great and should not leave the club. Fernandes will hopefully get the chance to stay and enjoy a full fit pre-season and complement him and be joined by one or two more class players.

?There is no smoke without fire? - unless you have a smoke machine. You my friend are a smoke machine! Why would we even contemplate selling Arteta, one of the only players touted by other clubs and picked out by opposing fans. remember the tottenham fan early in the season? Yes he?s not been his best this season, but sell and wer looking ata top half finish at best next year. We need to add to squad not replace!

Buy Fernandes for £12m, you obviously just watched the highlights of the Derby game and no more.

He was awful, except for one pass, he was caught in possession time & time again and he looked like he couldn?t be arsed. In the 2nd half he was moved from central midfield to the left of midfield ? because he had been so poor. He ?s not played anything like he did last season, so why would we pay upto £12m for someone who is not doing it?

There is no way Moyes will sign him. The only way we?ll see him still here next season is on loan.

Arshavin is sensational watched him the other day in the uefa cup and he tore em apart! My redshite mate said youse wont get him cos his class a big club will buy him! Hope to prove him wrong

Ok, Mikel has not been himself which we all expect week-in week-out, All great players go through a bad patch, but i even think now he is still our best midfielder. As for Fernandes, he has got great vision but still seems lost. He reminds me of Anderson of Man U.

So let's get behind the best little spaniard we know, this is the time he needs our support.

I will answer all of your comments and the answer is: Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Part of Wenger's genius is that he knows when players are on the slide and sells them to get maximun value, ie, Henry, Viera, Overmars, Petit etc. His bluepirint is to then replace them with younger, aggresive, athletic, technically gifted machines!

Moyes should do the same. Arteta's dead ballls and goal return are dreadful; Fernandes has been shocking since he came back; Cahill is either injured or fatigued from international duty; Carsley is too old; Anichebe has the touch of an elephant! and AJ is to lightweight.

Moyes should cull half of the team to get maximune return while he can. Arteta, Cahill, AJ, Neville, Hibbert, Anichebe, Carsley Gravesen, Wessels, Shandy, Fernandes.

Buy some leaders as Neville is the only one who leads and hes shocking. I know I will get slated for this, but at least I'm being honest.

Yes sell, because his dead-ball delivery is so ineffective.

Just looking on sky sports today, it says that Arteta has the worst accuracy for shooting at goal from a free-kick in the Premier League. Only 4 out 14 have hit the target

Let’s be honest, Fernandes is not the same player who set the world alight here last season.

He looks slow, sluggish, lazy and get’s caught in possession too often.

Maybe if he can show something in the last five games we should sign him, if not I think the money is best spent elsewhere.

Manny looked great for the last game against Derby. Pointless selling Arteta and signing Manny, 2 steps back and 1 foward. Keep em both and sign Manny for £5m rising to whatever based on appearances excluding his hair. That comment?s a bit right wing and I ain?t talking John Barnes!

Keep Arteta and buy Fernandes. All this stuff about Arteta’s form, just remember, form is temporary, class is forever.

Its nice to know that Arteta is appreciated for being the main man for a few seasons. One poor season by his standards also played carring a injury and some want to sell him. Tell me again, what's that thing we expect from players? Oh yes... LOYALTY! Do you not think the guy has earned ours???

Fernades will be world class and he shouldn’t cost £12 m. Arteta(when fit, which he hasn’t been for a while) IS world class;we need both. Realisticlly we’re not going to in the market for players of the quality of Wesley Schneider,so, who will come.Steve Hunt, Jimmy Bullard? Both decent players but they’re not gonna get us in the champions league.5th place is all we can hope for for the forseeable future, but is that so bad considering the last 10 years!

Judging by the article on the OS, Manny has realised he has a real chance with Cahill out and that unless he contributes in a meaningful way in the next five matches he’ll be be sent back with his tail between his legs.

Realistically, Valencia aren’t going to want to let him go for a big loss only a year after signing him and after getting nothing out of him.

The hard fact is that the £12m they forked was far too much for him. There is no way on earth that we can afford that, nor has he come close to looking that kind of player.

The only way could sign him is at a knock-down price with extra cash based on his performance - Wayne Rooney style.

So, why would Everton let him make those kinds of statements on the OS unless Moyes has some plan laid out for him, yet the ’playing for pride’ spin almost suggests he’s given up on the idea of the club signing him.

Doesn’t seem to add up to me.....

Colin Malone on Manny "He reminds me of Anderson of Man U."

Apart from the hair, no similarities. Anderson is a top-class player, and will become one of the best midfield players in the world, no doubt about it. He?s worth £20+million now.

Manny is a flash-in-the-pan. Has potential but has been poor more often than being good. Could become a very good midfield player, BUT has along way to go. He?s not worth more than £6million now, potentially more, but now he?s not worth more.

As for Arteta, his form is below par, but he is still playing better than Manny, infact he?s probably playing better than anyone else in the team, his standards are just much higher.

Should we swap them? NO, if we spent more than £10M on Manny we?d be robbed, if we got less than £20M for Mikel we?d be robbed.

Arteta?s corners have been poor; however, I think much of this is tactics, pass to the front post, leading to defelections and such. This is how Lescott has scored most of his goals.

He?s also had injuries, also he?s the only player at Everton who can carry a team, as he has proved for 2 seasons.

If we want to improve, we need to keep our best players and add to them, not replace them. If we got a bit of £25M then ok, but we won't, we may get £10M because he?s an uncapped Spaniard from a ?small club?. For £10M we may not even get Bentley, who because he?s English his value is much higher, but Arteta is a much better all round player. We need 2 central midfielders, a right back, a cultured forward and a sub keeper. But at right wing we need no-one, leave it that way.

Besides, if we finish 5th with an out-of-form and injured Arteta, imagine where we could finish with an inform, refreshed Arteta. He could get 20+ assists next season, especially with the Yak, and you want him sold, idiot.

It?d be interested to see how much money we have available in the summer. We must have some decent funds after selling McFadden and our position in the table. Signing Pienaar is a must, but we should try and negotiate with Valencia to bring Fernandes back on a cheaper deal if possible. Arteta hasn?t been playing well but he?s one of our best players without a doubt and if we are going to progress we need to keep players like him.

David Bentley would also be a very good signing and it would allow us to move Arteta into the middle, but unfortunately I?m not convinced we could afford to sign both him and Fernandes without selling. Finally, a young strong centre mid must be looked at and Giles Barnes could be the man, because he shouldn?t cost too much. If someone showed interest in AJ, I?d sell him for the right price and look at replacements for him while we can still recoup some of the money paid for him. The final area to look at in the long term is a quality right back and have Hibbert as a back up.

A midfield of:

Cahill/Osman

Pienaar Fernandes Barnes/Cars Arteta

Exciting!

What planet are you on? Arteta has been our best player for the past 3 years and at times has been up there with the best in the league, he has had a dip in form due to injury but as they say form is temporary class is permanent. He has not yet reached his prime and has a lot more to offer but you want to swap all this for a player who has been attrocious this season and contributed nothing apart from Osman's goal aginst a poor Derby and a few cameo pieces of skill last season. Get a grip!

£12m for him - YOU HAVE GOT TO BE ON THE WEED YOU MATE.

I bet you are one of those dickheads who said that we could still finish 2nd, 3rd or 4th a few weeks back.

Deluded you are.

It doesn?t fuckin? matter who we buy, we will never win the league ever again, unless someone ploughs £200m in to our club.

Why do people keep talking about Barnes as a player who is good enough for us! Before he got injured he struggled to get into the Derby team!

Fernandes is badly over-rated amongst Evertonians, yes he done some great things last season, the goal against United and the performance against Arsenal, but I also remember him going missing for large parts of games. I wouldn't go anywhere near the £12 million being suggested for him. How is he a better buy than Yakubu?

By the way selling Arteta? He?s the best little Spaniard we know!!!! Have a word with yourself Gary Tudor!!!

Bad shout, selling Arteta. piss poor shout in fact

I think Fernandes and Arteta are technically the two best players in our squad. To get rid of either would make the football far worse.

There probably the only midfielders in our team who at there best don’t need good players around them to succeed. The likes of Pienaar and Osman do need good players around them but Fernandes and Arteta are natural dictators and even in a poor team they’d stand out.

I really do think they are our future. Fernandes alongside Arteta showed last season that they have a good understanding. At the moment its not happening because there both out of form and have been struggling with injuries.

I don’t think either of them are overrated. Yes they have there deficiencies but there two quality players. Arteta has proven over the last three seasons that he is one of the best creative midfielders in the Premier League. People have mentioned David Bentley but I’d take Arteta over him any day of the week. Bar crossing Arteta’s all round game is alot better.

Fernandes for me is one of the best young centre midfielder in Europe. He’s not a Fabregas but he’s definatly capable of being at a similar level to Anderson at Man utd or Diaby at Arsenal. People may disagree but he’s a must buy for me.

We want the football to improve and the likes of Fernandes and Arteta are the players to move us on and improve it. We shouldn’t be selling one to finance the other.

If it cam down to it then it would be Arteta for me. Everyone knows how much I rate Fernandes and in my opinion he will be better than Mikel but you can’t doubt what Mikel has done for this football club and what he will do for us in the next few years.

We shouldn’t be getting into this really. We should support them both through there sticky patches because there both very good players.

Maybe Mikel does,nt fancy a trip to the taxi club this year [sorry bluekipper].

Oliver McAdam, What i,ve seen of Anderson and thats only on television and i know that dont count, but he did,nt look like a £20 mill plus player to me and was subbed each time, Manny is a better passer of the ball and i,m Mannys biggest critic.

IF HE IS TO BE SOLD, WHICH I DONT WANT, BUT IM HEARING NOISES THAT HE WONT BE THERE IN THE SUMMER, 15 MILLION FOR ME WOULD BE A HELL OF A PRICE, ID TAKE BENTLEY THEN FOR 10ISH. ALL IN ALL I THINK WE’D BE IN A BETTER POSITION THEN. BUT DONT GET ME WRONG IDEALLY I DONT WANT HIM TO GO, BUT HE HAS BEEN POOR THIS SEASON AND MAYBE IT COULD BE TIME TO CASH IN, BECAUSE ANOTHER POOR SEASON YOUD BE LUCKY TO GET 8 MILLION FOR HIM

Oliver McAdam, Colin Malone is right when he compares Anderson to Fernandes. In terms of style they are similar. The way they move on the ball, the way the pass it, the way they have good upper body strength despite being small.

They play in slightly different positions. Manny plays a deeper role whereas Anderson is more attacking.

I think Fernandes has everything Anderson has bar electric pace. Manny is fairly mobile but Anderson is lightning. Other than that there isn’t much difference.

Fernandes is as highly rated in Portugal as Anderson is and they are seen at a similar level. If Fernandes hadn’t moved around so much I would have expected him to to be at a similar club to the likes of Nani and Anderson.

Please tell me what a "flash in the pan" is? Fernandes at this current stage in his Everton career has had more good games than bad. In his first spell he played 10 games and in every game he played to a good level. Not always amazing but he was reasonably good in every game. This season he’s played a whole 6 games. Probably bar the Chelsea game where he played well he’s been average. I’d say he’s had 11 good games and 5 average games personally.

He’s worth more than 6 million. 6 million buys you players like Michael Chopra and James McFadden. Manny is on a different level to the players mentioned therefore should cost more. He’s got a pedigree in European football, he’s been capped at every level for Portugal and he’s played in three Leagues. Fernandes is worth more than 6 million without a doubt. Maybe he wouldn’t have been a few years ago but thats the transfer market for you.

Haven?t even read any of the other comments or even most of the initial article, because the title said it all. Will people who for some reason like Fernandes, please fuck off. He is shit. He wasn?t that good first time round and has been diabolical this time round. He?s quite clearly a twat off the field as well with his record of a different club every 6 months and fracas in night clubs, so let?s just fuck him off and get Arshavin in from Zenit.

And as for Arteta, can nobody see that he?s getting pissed off because he is limited in who he actually feels comfortable passing to, and when he is forced to pass to a Hibbert, you can see his shoulders drop when it?s then launched up the line. This undoubtedly then impacts the rest of his all round play (set pieces included). I know it shouldn?t and i?m not making excuses, but the lad is only human, and let?s have it right, is fucking quality. At the start of the season he was literally the best player in the world according to some, and now he?s not scoring goals like Ronaldo every week, he?s shit and should be sold. Have a word with yourselves.

Fernandes is a must buy for us, I have not been a big fan of his on his second loan spell,but I like his honesty and I do believe he wants to play for us, he will improve with fitness and longer spells in the team, it takes time to settle in any team and being injured does not help,his confidence will come back and even if he costs £8 millions as Car’s said, he will still be a bargain, would you rather see him play for the Hammers,City or the Barcodes? the OS piece I find a bit dificult to understand, seems like he may not be part of Moyes’s plans, I hope he will be. I can’t believe people here want to sell Arteta, he has carried an injury like Fernandes all season and is still ahead of most midfielders in the premiership, he probably needs an op and plenty of rest and will be back to himself next season, I agree with Moyes and we will add some quality next season, anyway were still good for 5th spot and european football next season, we’ve done well this season, we’ve been up more than down and I won’t slag our players, I think most of them have played their hearts out for the club and us as well.

I never said I wanted to sell Arteta if you read the post. I would like to keep him but we have to work with what we have.

Andy Callen: I never predicted 2nd 3rd or 4th, but took good odds at the start of the season without the big 4! Deluded I am not!

Selling Arteta is not the answer for me, but if the board do not have the resourses available to support the new influx of quality players DM has set his sights on, then who knows what will happen. We should be desperately trying to rid ourselves of the stigma of a selling club, but with Everton you never can really be sure what will happen. For me though keeping Arteta, buying Arshavin (as has been repeatedly stated, the boy is sheer quality!), Huddlestone & Hoyte(young, quality, British), retaining Manny on loan, & Kallstrom if the budget will stretch would summount to a fantastic summer of business! Although if Arteta is sold to fund something along these lines I fear we could be in search of a manager as well as a proven playmaker.

So, Arteta on the way out, I read Pienaar not a certainty to sign, Fernandes not a firm favourite, and Cahill’s availability uncertain until his dodgy toe is sorted. Can’t wait til next season; Neville-Carsley-Gravesen-Van der Meyde. Hmmmmmmmmmm

All I can say is, Thank God Ged Mathews has nothing to do with player retention.
What a total load of Shite.

Anderson (who cost 17mil) has taken over from Scholes in the Man U team and made him not missed. Scholes was one of the best midfielder in the world Manny has taken over from Nev in midfield, and hasnt done much better. Nev is shite.

To compare them is deluded... apart from the hair.

Manny gives the ball away constantly, examples against Brann and Derby when his losing the ball in the middle resulted in them attacking, only for the the shiteness of opposition they didnt score.

Mannys all round game is terrible, he only closes down after losing posession, his general quick short passing and possession play is shite, he needs an age on the ball and in the premiership you dont get that.

Yes he has potential, but he is the type of player who will probably never reach his potential, especially at that price. I would have him, but More than 6mil, for what, he played a few good games in the past 12 months, doesnt work particulary hard. Diarra cost 5-6, Diaby cost 2-3, Muntari 7 etc if manny cost 10mil NO CHANCE, Kallstrom at 5-6 AND another like Bradley (who is by the way on ehell of a young player) for about 4, rather than 1 Manny.

I think the problem with Manny and Everton is we want him to be great. The Arsenal and Man U games, that flair and possession play, the close control and strenght is exactly what we need, and have needed for 15-20 years. We’ve either had workhorse midfielders (parkinson,carsley,pembridge) or skillfull weak players (ossie), manny is both, so that is appealing, but he isnt good enough. Yes he is type of player we need, he is in the same style of Anderson, but not good enough and I trust moyes to find a better player than him.

Some say I dont want to regret it in 5 years when manny is playing at Barca/Milan... this is a imagine running wild, like the gambler whho wont leave because they think they’d be angry if they gave up because they could have won. I dont want to regret spending 12mil on an average player at the most important period in our clubs development when what money we have needs to be used well, we cant afford to sign manny with a ’will he or wont he’ tag attached, we need definate quality, consistant performers who are proven and can drive a team. Manny may be that man in 5-6 years, if so sign him then, for now go elsewhere.

Also, nearly every man u game is on tele, since xmas Anderson has been brilliant, he just moves the ball with such composure and his passing is brilliant for the entire game, unlike manny. He holds the shape of midfield and does his job giving great freedom to ronaldo, rooney etc. Comparing these two is like comparing Beattie and the Yak.

Oliver McAdam, you fail to mention that Fernandes has only started 6 games this season where Anderson has started 23. Anderson has had far more time than Fernandes to adjust and he had an advantage because he was fit when he came and ready to go.

Fernandes has had injuries all season and has hardly played all season. How’s he going to be in condition? Fact is it takes time to get your touch back and Fernandes hasn’t been given that time.

Fernandes last season is the Fernandes we should be judging. He was alot fitter then, he had played 10 games at Portsmouth and he showed his quality.

Fact is in his 10 game period last season he looked our most composed player on the ball, his passing range was brilliant, he turned up against the big guns and he rarely lost the ball. He’s only losing the ball more now because of lack of match practice. I’ve seen it happen to the best players in the world and it definatly is so for Manny.

?Manny gives the ball away constantly, examples against Brann and Derby when his losing the ball in the middle resulted in them attacking, only for the the shiteness of opposition they didn?t score.?

Are you positive about that? Let?s check the stats then and see if he actually does constantly loose the ball:

Fernandes v Derby: Made 32 passes completed 78%
Fernandes v Liverpool: Made 20 passes completed 95%
Fernandes v West Ham: Made 51 passes completed 84%
Fernandes v Reading: Made 16 passes completed 75%
Fernandes v Blackburn: Made 27 passes completed 69%
Fernandes v Spurs: Made 41 passes completed 83%
Fernandes v Chelsea: Made 43 passes completed 81%

I think you?ll find you?re wrong. There are the stats according to the Telegraph which you can check if you want. He passing range as a whole is 81% pass completion according to Setanta which is the highest in our current squad. I agree he this time round he has lost the ball in dangerous areas but it?s blatantly down to a lack of fitness and match sharpness. Having watched him in his first spell as well as at Benfica and for the Portugal under 21s he just doesn?t loose the ball when he?s in tip top shape.

?Mannys all round game is terrible, he only closes down after losing posession, his general quick short passing and possession play is shite, he needs an age on the ball and in the premiership you dont get that.?

I disagree. He has alot of attributes which myself and Moyes himself have noticed. He?s got vision, he can pass both short and long, he?s got a good touch, he has decent pace and he?s strong and able to hold off opposition midfielders, he has a very powerful shot and he?s skilful. Alot of attributes mentioned there are what we seen last season.

Yes he has his weakness also. I?d say he as a few things he needs to iron out. His work rate needs to improve as does his defensive game. They obviously don?t come naturally to him because he isn?t naturally a defensive player. Attacking wise he should work on his involvement in games. He should demand the ball more and impose himself more. He does have a tendency to drift in and out of games because of this but so do every one of our creative midfielders. Pienaar, Osman and Arteta all do the same. As does Anderson and Man utd.

Alot of young players have this problem but once they are settled they start to develop the confidence to dictate games for the full 90 minutes. Fernandes is able to dictate period?s games at his best as he showed against Arsenal last season or for Benfica against Liverpool in the Champions League a year or two ago but he doesn?t do it for 90 minutes. This could easily come with time.

?Yes he has potential, but he is the type of player who will probably never reach his potential, especially at that price. I would have him, but More than 6mil, for what, he played a few good games in the past 12 months, doesnt work particulary hard. Diarra cost 5-6, Diaby cost 2-3, Muntari 7 etc if manny cost 10mil NO CHANCE, Kallstrom at 5-6 AND another like Bradley (who is by the way on ehell of a young player) for about 4, rather than 1 Manny.?

He?s worth more than 6 million. I?m sorry but he just is. Fact is he?s highly rated in Europe and if we don?t buy him someone else will. The players mentioned would cost alot more than you?re making out. Diaby cost 2-3 million because Wenger is quite frankly a genius when it comes to young footballers. He?s cost around 10-12 million now if Arsenal where to sell. Diarra cost 5-6 million because he?s never done anything. He?s failed at both Arsenal and Chelsea. Now he is proving himself to be a good footballer at Portsmouth and he?d cost mega buck now. I don?t that Muntari in any of the players mentioned bracket. 7 million for a work horse with a decent shot is a rip off for me and he?s not even on Manny?s level in my opinion.

Kallstrom is a good player but there is no way he?ll cost 5-6 million. More like 8-10 million. Is he really what where looking for. His best position is behind the front two or in a midfield three. He?s not an orthodox centre midfielder and doesn?t have the legs for centre midfield two. I?d can imagine him playing behind the striker in a ?Cahill type role? or moving out wide and giving us a left foot. That?s not what where looking for.

Michael Bradley isn?t a patch on Fernandes. I?m sorry but he?s not. I?ve seen him play about 10 times in the Dutch League and I watched him in the under 20 championships and nothing particularly stood out for me. He?s not even one of the best youngsters in Holland and doesn?t play for big Dutch team. At least Fernandes is one of the better young Portuguese players coming through and is proven in this league with around 20 games under his belt for Everton and Portsmouth last season. I?d have Bradley for a reasonable price but I?d have Fernandes over him every day of the week.

Anyway, Fernandes won?t cost 12 million. I highly doubt it. This was his set price when he was at Benfica when he was part owned. I?m pretty sure he isn?t part owned anymore. Valencia bought him right out and broke the deal and even Moyes admitted this when he took him back. I think we could be looking at around 6-9 million which is perfectly acceptable for me. Koeman doesn?t want him at the club anyway. Valencia are a club with big problems and there having a complete overhaul.

?Also, nearly every man u game is on tele, since xmas Anderson has been brilliant, he just moves the ball with such composure and his passing is brilliant for the entire game, unlike manny. He holds the shape of midfield and does his job giving great freedom to Ronaldo, Rooney etc. Comparing these two is like comparing Beattie and the Yak.?

Anderson is brilliant and he is better than Manny but it?s not like Manny isn?t in his League. I think he is and if you asked someone who followed Portuguese football they?d tell you exactly the same thing. Fernandes had a far greater impact at Benfica then Anderson did at Porto. Fernandes is one of the most highly rated midfielders in Portugal. There future national teams midfield is predicted to be Ronaldo and Nani on the wings, Moutinho as the attacking midfielder and Fernandes and Veloso holding. To be mentioned in the same breath of those players shows the quality and potential he has.

Fernandes is a class act and if we buy him and get him fit in Pre-season I have no doubts he?ll be one of our better players. I?m certainly not going to judge him when he is unfit, lacking confidence and in poor condition.

Connor, I'm impressed.
I will have to take you more seriously in the future, you know your stuff, and its good to have the facts to back up your arguement.

Conner- ?statistics, statistics and down right lies? You can use statistics to prove almost anything. Its all very good showing his pass completion rate but they are worthless without being able to compare with preferably another mid-field player. Footballs not all about passing anyway theres much much more to the game and he needs to improve on it all. I would rather have Carsley than Fernandes. I'll give you some stats: When we finished 7th Carsley played consistantly, next season he was injured we finish 17th. The following season we lose Rooney and Grav but Carsley plays and we finish 4th. He gets injured the start of the nxt season we get a poor start and finish 11th he plays the whole of the next 2 seasons 5th and 6th up for grabs. Coincidence?