ToffeeWeb - Season 2007-08

The Mail Bag

Biggest spenders

The top four are the biggest spenders, and that's why they are in the Champions League, so says Ramos on soccernet.com. So we are all agreed that Moyes needs more kitty, but does that mean that it will get us there?

Or in fact that Spurs who have spent a lot, would get there? Or the this guys money at Man City? It's somewhat scary to see where this is all going, and then Capello said he thinks it's good for the English Premier League, 3 out of 4 teams left but only 6 Englishmen between them.

Can it only be just money? yes you have got too have lots, but what about youth academies. Real Madrid have plenty, how are they doing in the Champions League, this year or last or even before that???
Anton Holmes, Perth, Australia Posted 11/04/2008 at 09:54:24

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Michael Kenrick

Haven't Arsenal spent less than most/all of the other clubs you list? Including the ones below us in the table. One difference is if you have a manager who encourages you to play good fooitball. Oh wait on... aren't they the 1 of 4 that is no longer in the CL? Bugger!

Greg Doyle
1 Posted 11/04/2008 at 14:20:22

I’m beginning to think that the champions league has destroyed the domestic league. How ridiculous is it that we are all fired up for our club to push for 4th place so our club can make some money?? That isn’t what football should be about.
I think Platini has the right idea, 1 place in the champions league for each country. That would take the money out of the TV rights and put every club on a more level playing field.
Obviously it’s never going to happen though.

Nick Entwistle
2 Posted 11/04/2008 at 14:44:46

it’s not just the money... with the top 4 being almost guarenteed CL every year they can go for a quality of player who would otherwise not want to go to clubs not in the CL... which of course takes money but its top draw players they can go for and second best for the rest of us.
Name me one world class player who has gone to anyone outside the top four in years?

Adam Carey
3 Posted 11/04/2008 at 15:03:05

I say let them just piss off and join their Euro Super G14 League.
Then the rest of the footballing world can start playing in competitive leagues again.
I for one won’t miss the CL as I can never be arsed to watch it anyway!
I bit off the course of the thread but I agree that clubs are nearly bankrupting themselves to get to 4th place in the league, and the teams already in those places, (especially here in England), a virtually bolting the door shut to stay at the top table. It all bloody stinks! Rant over, back to work...

Patty Beesley
4 Posted 11/04/2008 at 14:48:23

The only one I can think of, Nick, is likely to be Ronaldinho IF he goes to Man City.

Anyway to be honest, and this is not a pessimist?s point of view, I'm not sure that there is any point in getting a place in the CL next year. Who wants to be laughed at because we are out in the first stages? Do you want the humiliation that we suffered last time? Quite honestly I think another go at the Uefa Cup will give us more experience of playing in Europe and what is expected of us ? not to lose our bottle in Europe.

Micky Norman
5 Posted 11/04/2008 at 14:45:48

I know I?ve said it before on here but I do think that the Champions League has killed the wider competitive nature of football in all of the major football countries of Europe. If you look at the leagues across the whole continent you will see they all have their own versions of the Sky 4. Any kid who watches football on TV can name these clubs.

To break into it and to do well not only requires your club to suddenly become mega rich but also for one of the existing clubs to have a crisis year. I can?t see this happening in the forseeable future. As far as I can see there will be no difference in our position until either the structure of European football changes (unlikely) or a cheap TV alternative to SKY breaks through and drains their coffers dry (equally unlikely but still a nice thought).

For Everton, and all the other clubs chasing the dream, it is unlikely that the quadropoly (just made that one up) will ever be broken for more than the odd brief adventure like we had a couple of years ago. Football history shows that once a country allows a couple of teams to become so much stronger than the rest they tend to keep their power and stronghold for a very long time.

I just hope that one day all these money clubs from across Europe will bugger off into their own league and leave the rest of football to the people who go to the game regularly, support their local teams and eat dodgy meat pies. Can?t see it happening because Real Madrid, Man Utd wouldn?t fancy finishing 12th out of 16 in the Euro Millions TV League would they?

Nick Entwistle
6 Posted 11/04/2008 at 16:52:12

With you Micky... wrote an artical on here a while back called What is Success?
Search for that and it's a good read on the subject.

Joe McMahon
7 Posted 11/04/2008 at 17:00:20

I have always thought that if we make the CL, we will just be embarrased. Let?s face it "Carsley in the Neu Camp".... Christ, we will be a fucking laughing stock, just like last time, with bent, Beattie, Naysmith and an 87-year-old Duncan Ferguson.

Nick Entwistle
8 Posted 11/04/2008 at 17:06:21

Joe.... But we never will have a squad to compete in the CL unless we qualify for it in the first place...

Jay Harris
9 Posted 11/04/2008 at 16:45:30

Aren't we all missing the point? Sport is all about aspiring to be the best and/or compete against the best. It is easier once you have got there (i.e. Man Utd) but everything has cycles (Arsenal, Chelsea, Blackburn). It isn't just about having the most money but it helps(Man Utd, Real Madrid).

A top coach (Arsene Wenger, Mourhino) is the most important factor. The quality/depth of the squad is the next most important factor and this is not only influenced by money but also about development and scouting. Luck is the next most important factor and this can be with the rub of the green (hiiting the post instead of going in), Referees decisions(DOES NOT EVEN ITSELF OUT OVER A SEASON - thats a fallacy) and timing of injuries to key players.

Another important factor is encouragement from the supporters and their ability to influence referees? decisions.

And as important as any other is the conditions in which the club can achieve this.The quality and ability of the board and their plans for the club, the stadium (pitch), the backup staff such as assistants and physios and the amount of power and influence the club has (The media, The FA, Local councils etc.)

I happen to think EFC have made some important strides in some of these areas . Moyes and the improving quality of the squad over time, the development of good young players, and Finch Farm. However I still think there are some key areas for concern.

It is no secret that I do not rate the board at all. There seems to be no executive plan for Everton, only a "Moyes" plan. There is a patent inability to improve operations (Ticket/travel fiascos, obstructed views, poor facilities) and extremely poor commercial management (Marketing, operating losses and inability to get adequate investment); and the move to Kirkby seems increasingly out of control.

I do believe we are at the crossroads of potentially breaking into the SKY 4 or falling away to midtable (and worse)mediocrity. What we really need is some quality additions to the squad, changes in the boardroom (better leadership, strategy and investment) and some alternative stadium options to consider. Then we will have a team spirit on and off the pitch with a fully united (pardon the use of that word) set of supporters behind the team.

Micky Norman
10 Posted 11/04/2008 at 17:40:51

Agree with you here Jay on much of what you say but I think the days have gone when a team could break into the elite with just one of those factors you mention. Remember Brian Clough who took a team of journeymen and good youngsters and won the European Cup. Kendall did much the same with signings like Nev,Reidy and Gray who nobody else really fancied at the time. Can you really see anyone doing that now? The rich still get richer and stronger.....until the revolution. And I don’t see the top coaches staying too long at the poorer teams.

Neil Pearse
11 Posted 11/04/2008 at 18:51:23

The most logical and exciting thing now would be for there to be a G14 league - but with promotion and relegation. Say two places each year, with either the UEFA final providing those teams, or a play off competition after the end of the season from the top teams in each of the national leagues.

Then we would have competitive leagues all round. Winning your national league would count for something in its own right, and would also give you the opportunity to compete in the G14 league. And winning the G14 league would really count for something because you would have played all the teams twice in a season (and not got to the finals like the RS because you’ve conned the refs).

Of course it will never happen. The whole point of the G14 is to have a permanent monopoly. They would never allow the possibility that they might be relegated to the national leagues. Shame.

Paul English
12 Posted 11/04/2008 at 20:47:51

Except for Arsenal and ourbeloved club EFC, I and many more have seen every other club from the Premier League, including Liverpool, in a lower division. That means we really can sing "Who the fucking hell are you?" to them all. In Moyes we trust!

Adam Carey
13 Posted 11/04/2008 at 22:27:24

Steve, whilst I agree with your point about us and the Arse having the top flight consistency records, these days it’s all about winning and the top leagues in Europe are monopolised by the same teams. Even the bloody CL has suffered. I can’t be arsed to look at the facts but the same teams are virtually in the last 8 every year and the rest are just happy to be in the league stages for the money.
I would love us to get there and really respect the way Moyes has rebuilt the team but I hate the fact that the game I love has turned into what it is. If we spent £40M this summer we would still not be close enough to the league title!

Ajay Gopal
14 Posted 12/04/2008 at 10:02:45

I honestly think we are not very far away from the top 3.

Think about it - just a few games ago, we were believing we could challenge Chelsea for 3rd. Look where they are now - seriously challenging for the title.

OK, the wheels have fallen off our campaign recently, but are we really that far off ?

Just a couple of IFs, and we could be there:

IF referees gave us the decisions that are fair and just
IF we had a squad that had a couple of quality players more, and a squad of 2~3 more players

See ? It is not a big wish list.

Can anybody tell me if there has ever been a team in the Premier League that has gone through the entire season without 1 penalty ?