The Mail Bag
No more bullshit
Comments (19)
I have no idea what name to give the kind of game we play but it sure is not anything like that of other Premier League teams including relegation battling Fulham, Derby and Birmingham.
To be honest, Moyes and just about every Evertonian would admit that Brum gave us a lesson on passing, shooting, free kicks, corners, throw-ins, first touch, ball control, team work and just about every other aspect of the game.
The big question is, will those lessons be absorbed and acted upon? Bad luck had nothing to do with this latest humiliating debacle. The Referee was not to blame, Birmingham?s injury list is worse than ours and to cap it off their owner and CEO were arrested and their board must be in turmoil.
To return to our own miseries. Based on his flittering performances to date I would not give Fernandesthe time of day let alone a contract. Pienaar, more and more looks and plays like a malnourished under strength Osman. It may be needless nitpicking but that ridiculous hair style makes him look even less of a man and more like a school kid.
It should not be too hard for Moyes to find replacement midfielders, practically every midfield player in the Pem would walk into our team, even that sod Kuyt.
IMHO James McFadden first game back after a recent knee operation showed more natural football nous and goal threat than the Yak and Johnson combined.
Dick Fearon, Posted 12/04/2008 at 16:55:10
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Brian Waring
2 Posted 12/04/2008 at 19:44:57
2 Posted 12/04/2008 at 19:44:57
Good point there Tony. I do actually think is is down to how the player’s are trained to play, rather than them just being shite. When AJ came to us, he was a prolific striker, but Moyes playing him virtually as a winger, has fucked him up big style.
Tony Williams
3 Posted 12/04/2008 at 20:00:16
3 Posted 12/04/2008 at 20:00:16
Brian I very much doubt that Moyes is playing Johnson as a winger, I put it more down to the fact that Jags, Pip and also Lescott prefer the punt into the corner for Johnson to chase than trying to actually beat a man or pass to a team mate, who at the moment seems to have forgot how to move away from their markers and find space.
I suppose that is taught in training as well?
I suppose that is taught in training as well?
Connor Rohrer
4 Posted 12/04/2008 at 19:55:07
4 Posted 12/04/2008 at 19:55:07
"To be honest, Moyes and just about every Evertonian would admit that Brum gave us a lesson on passing, shooting, free kicks, corners, throw-ins, first touch, ball control, team work and just about every other aspect of the game."
Anyone who watched the game would disagree. Brum where as bad as us. Neither team showed anything.
How are the midfield supposed to get the ball if there being bypassed. Please tell me? Fernandes and Pienaar where looking for the ball today and they where rarely found whether its was in central areas or out wide.
The midfield isn?t world class by any means but it isn?t the only reason why our football is woeful. They have to get the ball to play football and at the moment that isn?t happening.
Why the pathetic swipes at Pienaar? He?s been our best and most consistent midfielder this season and has contributed alot to our cause. He and Osman have contributed alot more than Carsley, Cahill and Arteta. They have yet because there not tall enough and don?t look the part they get stick.
To have a go at Pienaar and Fernandes is just ridiculous in my opinion. If there was two players on that pitch today who wanted to play football then it was one of them two.
Anyone who watched the game would disagree. Brum where as bad as us. Neither team showed anything.
How are the midfield supposed to get the ball if there being bypassed. Please tell me? Fernandes and Pienaar where looking for the ball today and they where rarely found whether its was in central areas or out wide.
The midfield isn?t world class by any means but it isn?t the only reason why our football is woeful. They have to get the ball to play football and at the moment that isn?t happening.
Why the pathetic swipes at Pienaar? He?s been our best and most consistent midfielder this season and has contributed alot to our cause. He and Osman have contributed alot more than Carsley, Cahill and Arteta. They have yet because there not tall enough and don?t look the part they get stick.
To have a go at Pienaar and Fernandes is just ridiculous in my opinion. If there was two players on that pitch today who wanted to play football then it was one of them two.
Brian Waring
5 Posted 12/04/2008 at 21:11:33
5 Posted 12/04/2008 at 21:11:33
Tony, so what is Moyes doing in training? Couldn’t he just tell pip, Lescott and jags to try and play the ball through midfield, instead of just twating it. Or is it Moyes’ mentality (as an ex defender ) to just tell them to just twat it up? It seem’s lately that virtually the whole team has become defensive minded.
Ged Dwyer
6 Posted 12/04/2008 at 21:34:36
6 Posted 12/04/2008 at 21:34:36
You are so right Brian and Tony.
Moyes has been here 6 years so the way the team plays is all down to him, including how individual players pass and move. The football we play is primitive and we can get outplayed in midfield by most teams. We pick up results because the defence is strong and we do have a bit of quality up front.
Moyes has been here 6 years so the way the team plays is all down to him, including how individual players pass and move. The football we play is primitive and we can get outplayed in midfield by most teams. We pick up results because the defence is strong and we do have a bit of quality up front.
Simon
7 Posted 12/04/2008 at 21:48:33
7 Posted 12/04/2008 at 21:48:33
Ged,
Sorry but "We pick up results because the defence is strong and we do have a bit of quality up front" is talking shite!
We are in a bad run of form but we have played lots of good football this season when Pienaar, Arteta, Cahill and Osman have been fit and firing.
Our best footballers are not in the team which means we aren’t playing well. We have been introducing better footballers - in the past decade think of the real muppets we have had - but it takes time and money when you aren’t a Champions’ League regular unfortunately nowadays.
We aren’t always a good footballing side but the RS are in the Champions’ League semi final playing long ball to Torres!
Sorry but "We pick up results because the defence is strong and we do have a bit of quality up front" is talking shite!
We are in a bad run of form but we have played lots of good football this season when Pienaar, Arteta, Cahill and Osman have been fit and firing.
Our best footballers are not in the team which means we aren’t playing well. We have been introducing better footballers - in the past decade think of the real muppets we have had - but it takes time and money when you aren’t a Champions’ League regular unfortunately nowadays.
We aren’t always a good footballing side but the RS are in the Champions’ League semi final playing long ball to Torres!
Ged Dwyer
8 Posted 12/04/2008 at 22:07:47
8 Posted 12/04/2008 at 22:07:47
Simon - you carry on telling people they are talking shite while our midfield keeps getting outplayed by teams like Liverpool, Birmingham, Derby, Oldham.....
John Martin
9 Posted 12/04/2008 at 23:34:28
9 Posted 12/04/2008 at 23:34:28
Phil Neville has the 2nd highest % succesful crosses in the premiership sho that shatters Tony Parts myth.
Andy Callaghan
10 Posted 12/04/2008 at 23:33:39
10 Posted 12/04/2008 at 23:33:39
Errrm, Ged - I don’t remember our strongest midefield being put out in any of those games you just listed..
Do you really think Moyes wants us to play like we’re playing at the moment? Do you really think his first choice pairing is Neville and Carsley? C’mon..
Do you really think Moyes wants us to play like we’re playing at the moment? Do you really think his first choice pairing is Neville and Carsley? C’mon..
Ged Dwyer
11 Posted 13/04/2008 at 00:25:41
11 Posted 13/04/2008 at 00:25:41
Andy - Sure our first choice ’five man midfield’ played a bit against Fulham and Sunderland at home but when we’ve played quality sides or had a few injuries the wheels have come off. Point being, the squad needs to be strong enough to survive a few injuries and the system in place should be able to keep the football flowing. It doesn’t, it can’t. But you put up with us being embarrassing against Liverpool or Oldham. I won’t. And Carsley has been Moyes’s first choice. Neville is first on the team sheet because he’s Moyes’s captain. Moyes might not want us to play like we’re playing at the moment but he hasn’t a clue how to improve it. Like you he’s waiting for his first choice 11 to all be fit. We’ve played teams who have had more injuries than us recently and yet they can still play better football than us.
Greg Murphy
12 Posted 13/04/2008 at 08:55:38
12 Posted 13/04/2008 at 08:55:38
I’m seriously beginning to think there’s only one way of getting the message through to either Moyes or the players (or both)...and that’s to mimic the "hoof" chant - so beloved of Arsenal of late - every one of our own players just aimlessly lumps it up.
Of course it won’t be construed as "positively" supporting our players (I prefer to call it tough love) but it may well get across to the players, the bench and the press box why the atmosphere at Goodison is so muted.
Because I’m fed up of reading Moyes’ (used to be Stubbs’ too) thinly veiled digs at the crowd.
If they can’t see what we all can -- that every time Hibbert, Neville, Yobo etc just aimlessly lash it up field (with Yakubu thinking "sod that" and AJ thinking "I’ll chase it to make me look willing") -- is how to lose possession (don’t give me canny 2nd phase strategies) then perhaps it needs hammering home in the most undignified way possible.
Possibly if 37,340 (and falling) are constantly shouting "hoof" all game it may embarrass them into playing it on the deck. If they persist in doing it then maybe we’ll then have exposed just how much they’re playing to instructions.
HOOOOOF!!
Of course it won’t be construed as "positively" supporting our players (I prefer to call it tough love) but it may well get across to the players, the bench and the press box why the atmosphere at Goodison is so muted.
Because I’m fed up of reading Moyes’ (used to be Stubbs’ too) thinly veiled digs at the crowd.
If they can’t see what we all can -- that every time Hibbert, Neville, Yobo etc just aimlessly lash it up field (with Yakubu thinking "sod that" and AJ thinking "I’ll chase it to make me look willing") -- is how to lose possession (don’t give me canny 2nd phase strategies) then perhaps it needs hammering home in the most undignified way possible.
Possibly if 37,340 (and falling) are constantly shouting "hoof" all game it may embarrass them into playing it on the deck. If they persist in doing it then maybe we’ll then have exposed just how much they’re playing to instructions.
HOOOOOF!!
Tony Part
13 Posted 13/04/2008 at 09:18:05
13 Posted 13/04/2008 at 09:18:05
You know one thing what I just cant really get my head around is why Moyes actually brought Gravesen back to the club... Is the guy really so out of condition that he cannot even play an hour's football?? I am not for one minute saying Gravesen would have made a huge difference yesterday but at least give him a fighting chance of changing the game at half time rather than waiting for Birmingham to attack and attack and attack.To be truthful, even after we scored Brum's goal had been coming it was so glaring. I thought Gravesen was brough back to make a difference in games like yesterday? I must have thought wrong but surely if he is not fit enough to play an afternoon's football then just don't put him in the squad... Pointless!
Ralph Basnett
14 Posted 13/04/2008 at 09:55:08
14 Posted 13/04/2008 at 09:55:08
Oh dear,
Where to start? Played a poor team, so fielded a poor team.
Played shite, deserved nothing and got nothing!!
Carrying injuries, so were they!!
But isn?t this the same team that has done so well all season? A bridge too far?
Maybe if we give them 30 grand a week instead of 20 they may be able to take us all the way to the end of the season without slacking.
Cannot get my head around the fact that on my paltry wages if I slack off I ould lose my job, a professional footballer slacks off and he is tired?
I could bitch all day as this is EFC but we will still expect too see football, be given hoofball and it will never change.
Not a great Moyes fan and when he states he wants a younger team why do we give Carsley a new contract, have Graveson on the bench but are scared to use hims and if any of our youth are any good why are they at other, lower league clubs getting so called experience when the experience they need is in the PL.
If we are so short then why are they at least not getting on the bench?
And so will look forward to watching Portsmouth not only pipping us to 5th and winning the FA Cup and graciously letting us qualify for UEFA Cup but also to spend the summer listening to RS explaining how they qualified for CL on merit, are spending 100M and wishing us good look with Kewell, Savage and Scott Parker (finally broke our wage structure - but years too late) our new midfield.
And too compound all of this DIC buy RS for 500M, build 100,000 seater stadium and leak that we paid 5M for Kewell, but it is in instalments as we could not afford it, apparently all transfer money went on sueing KEIOC for saying naughty words.
And I?m still pissed off we cannot beat the top teams or the bottom teams ust the teams the team on the day decide to play.
God, its hard being an Evertonian, please lets discuss the move to Kirkby its less emmotive than the football/hoofball we are playing at the moment.
Bitching over, looking forward to Blackburn doing us a favour, and a run of five wins to clinch CL football and slating RS for getting the CL wild card for their loyalty for travelling so far for home games.
Where to start? Played a poor team, so fielded a poor team.
Played shite, deserved nothing and got nothing!!
Carrying injuries, so were they!!
But isn?t this the same team that has done so well all season? A bridge too far?
Maybe if we give them 30 grand a week instead of 20 they may be able to take us all the way to the end of the season without slacking.
Cannot get my head around the fact that on my paltry wages if I slack off I ould lose my job, a professional footballer slacks off and he is tired?
I could bitch all day as this is EFC but we will still expect too see football, be given hoofball and it will never change.
Not a great Moyes fan and when he states he wants a younger team why do we give Carsley a new contract, have Graveson on the bench but are scared to use hims and if any of our youth are any good why are they at other, lower league clubs getting so called experience when the experience they need is in the PL.
If we are so short then why are they at least not getting on the bench?
And so will look forward to watching Portsmouth not only pipping us to 5th and winning the FA Cup and graciously letting us qualify for UEFA Cup but also to spend the summer listening to RS explaining how they qualified for CL on merit, are spending 100M and wishing us good look with Kewell, Savage and Scott Parker (finally broke our wage structure - but years too late) our new midfield.
And too compound all of this DIC buy RS for 500M, build 100,000 seater stadium and leak that we paid 5M for Kewell, but it is in instalments as we could not afford it, apparently all transfer money went on sueing KEIOC for saying naughty words.
And I?m still pissed off we cannot beat the top teams or the bottom teams ust the teams the team on the day decide to play.
God, its hard being an Evertonian, please lets discuss the move to Kirkby its less emmotive than the football/hoofball we are playing at the moment.
Bitching over, looking forward to Blackburn doing us a favour, and a run of five wins to clinch CL football and slating RS for getting the CL wild card for their loyalty for travelling so far for home games.
Markus Leistad
15 Posted 13/04/2008 at 10:33:40
15 Posted 13/04/2008 at 10:33:40
What is this lack of understanding of football nonsense. We did not start the game with a good team.
Pienaar: Has been out with an injury for some times, and was not back in form. Same with AJ. Frenandes hasn’t been fit all year, and Yakubu too looks out of form. Without Cahill, Arteta, Osman and Yobo we don’t have a 4th place squad.
If you look at the games we have played well this year, its been one touch football with Pienaar, Cahill, Yakubu, Arteta and Osman. Without these guys, we can not expect to win football matches.
Pienaar: Has been out with an injury for some times, and was not back in form. Same with AJ. Frenandes hasn’t been fit all year, and Yakubu too looks out of form. Without Cahill, Arteta, Osman and Yobo we don’t have a 4th place squad.
If you look at the games we have played well this year, its been one touch football with Pienaar, Cahill, Yakubu, Arteta and Osman. Without these guys, we can not expect to win football matches.
Mike Whittaker
16 Posted 13/04/2008 at 13:08:29
16 Posted 13/04/2008 at 13:08:29
Games like we have seen over the last few matches is why we are a yoyo premier team. Watching the last three games, you couldnt tell which team was fighting for a Champions League place or the tag of the worst team this league has ever seen. Yesterday was exactly the same, The only conclusion I can come too is that we really are no better than the likes of Birmingham, Middlesbrough etc. Our players are poor, some of us big them up to be better than what they are i.e Piennaar, Osman, Carsely etc. Lets be frank here, if they were top class players they wouldnt be playing for us. Thats a harsh and controversial statement, but its the truth. Look at our supposedly ’better’ players, Arteta....26 years old and already has a list of clubs as long as his arm. Pienaar cant cut it in Germany - because that league is a step up from the Dutch one.
Yakubu - a great finisher but lacks a real hunger to succeed (no pun intended) otherwise he would be at a Chelsea or a Man U.
Unless we spend mega bucks in the summer and get a manager that understands the game at the highest level we will be up and down this league like a whores knickers.
Yakubu - a great finisher but lacks a real hunger to succeed (no pun intended) otherwise he would be at a Chelsea or a Man U.
Unless we spend mega bucks in the summer and get a manager that understands the game at the highest level we will be up and down this league like a whores knickers.
Neil McBain
17 Posted 13/04/2008 at 13:48:54
17 Posted 13/04/2008 at 13:48:54
I was at the game yesterday, Kop, row 18, seat 480 and was completely surrounded by Brummies.
Listening to their, comments and feeling the atmosphere in that part of the ground I know that none of them thought that Birmingham gave us a lesson.
To be honest I felt quite at home, listening to all the negative comments and how scared shitless they were when we we in their half of the park - which was quite often.
Imagine if Lescott had been playing for them and not us. For my money he was man of the match. True he isn?t always a delight to watch but he is effectual.
The person next to me remarked to his mate that Everton were trying to play neat football. To which his mate replied that we must be a great side with Arteta and co playing.
A great eye opener to sit (quietly) amongst the opposition I reccommend it to those who can only see gloom and doom.
Listening to their, comments and feeling the atmosphere in that part of the ground I know that none of them thought that Birmingham gave us a lesson.
To be honest I felt quite at home, listening to all the negative comments and how scared shitless they were when we we in their half of the park - which was quite often.
Imagine if Lescott had been playing for them and not us. For my money he was man of the match. True he isn?t always a delight to watch but he is effectual.
The person next to me remarked to his mate that Everton were trying to play neat football. To which his mate replied that we must be a great side with Arteta and co playing.
A great eye opener to sit (quietly) amongst the opposition I reccommend it to those who can only see gloom and doom.
Alan Clarke
18 Posted 13/04/2008 at 14:45:00
18 Posted 13/04/2008 at 14:45:00
Mike, those clubs you’ve listed that we’re supposedly no better than would absolutely love those players you’ve mentioned from our team. Then you say that if they were top class players they wouldn’t be playing for us but if we had megabucks we’d buy some top class players. If top class players wouldn’t be playing for us, how do we sign top class players? I don’t understand!
Peter Smith
19 Posted 13/04/2008 at 17:33:35
19 Posted 13/04/2008 at 17:33:35
Pienaar played well yesterday and Fernandes was probably our most dangerous player, every time he got the ball he was always trying to make something happen, he?s starting to look sharp again. Get off their case ffs.
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1 Posted 12/04/2008 at 19:34:31
Moyes will persist with Carsley and Neville in midfield and that is never ever going to be a line up to striker fear into any opposition. We seem incapable of being able to cross a ball from wide positions and Hibbert and Neville are the two worst culprits for this, every cross fails to beat the first man.
No matter who we sign during the summer we must change the way we play. I have said many times we still play far too much long ball football. The amount of times the ball leaves either Howard's foot or Jagielka's and ends up in the opposing teams goalkeeepers hands is too alarming for me. We just by-pass the midfield.
Now basic word for Moyes and the players. Everton only look a good team when we play the ball on the ground... THE GROUND... TAKE NOTE EVERYBODY... we don't have a big physical team so it's pointless playing high balls all the time. I just really really wish they would learn.