The Mail Bag
Nil Satis Nisi Optimum
Comments (16)
I very much think we should follow the Nil Satis Nisi Optimum way of thinking. I just wonder if at the end of the season people will be a little bit more objective about how we've fared this season.
There's so much psychology involved in how we feel after a game and I think the same can be said about a season. For instance, at home against Birmingham this season we score 2 goals in the dying minutes. The majority of the game we didn't play particularly well but because of those last two goals and a winning scoreline of 3-1, we leave the ground feeling like world beaters. It seemed to erase the fact that we weren't that good during the game. What if we'd scored 3 in the first half then conceded one early in the second half and spent the rest of the game hanging on to our lead? We'd have left the ground feeling nowhere near as jubilant, happy with the 3 points but not the same feeling as scoring 2 in the last minute.
Apply this to our season, imagine if we'd have played rubbish and had the run we're on now but in the middle of the season. We then have all our players fit and on top form and finish the season on an unbeaten 14 match run. Overall our points tally and most probable 5th place finish is the same but our feeling of jubilance is not the same. Most supporters would think we were nearing a title challenge!
I'm as frustrated as everyone else that we haven't been able to kick on at the end of this season and really push for fourth. But fifth place and our highest ever points tally is still a bigger acheivement than last season. We won't overtake Liverpool because they have a bigger squad of more talented players because they have had unlimited resources.
I hope with a bit more perspective people will realise this season has not been the disaster everyone seems to be writing about after yesterday's result.
Alan Clarke, Posted 13/04/2008 at 15:01:41
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Gavin Ramejkis
1 Posted 13/04/2008 at 17:50:17
1 Posted 13/04/2008 at 17:50:17
Good teams playing badly grind out results, great teams beat all comers, pretenders get shown up by lesser teams when it comes to the crunch. One loss to a team fighting for survival is a blip, four weeks of shite, and I include the scraped win past Derby, is showing true ugly colours.
Martin Cutler
2 Posted 13/04/2008 at 18:03:49
2 Posted 13/04/2008 at 18:03:49
A little harsh me thinks!
One can rant and rave and cheer and cajole, whatever feelings you have on a per game basis..I watched the game last night and was appalled at just how bad we were.....HOWEVER, even though the season isn’t over one must look at the season overall.............and PROVIDING we retain 5th place this season is a success.
That said I will admit that it’s been a disappointing ending to the season ..... since the PK shoot-out we’ve been awful.....absolutely awful...no other way of putting it.
Injuries have taken their toll...YES, small squad has taken it’s toll.....YES, Liverpool (the bastards!) coming on strong when it matters has taken it’s toll, mebbe even Moyes and his ability/inability to pick his players up (wow, that’s the first time I’ve criticised the boss!) has taken it’s toll too but as I said the season when it finishes is what matters.......5th place(?), a fantastic run in the UEFA Cup, semi-final of the League Cup.............it could have been far, far worse................with a few extra players, with a bit of luck on the injury front, a bit of luck with refs (and a fucking PK or two) I admit it could have been a lot better too!
I think fate and our season’s tail-end finish have probably handed 4th spot to LFC......rather than them taking it from us.....................for the lack of money though, Moyes ain’t done too bad.
This summer is critical in terms of bringing "good" players in.
Neville, VDM, Gravesen must go.
Vaughn will hopefully be like a new signing next season.
Carsley needs replacing now.
Hibbert and Carsley should only be squad players.
Still unsure about Manny (although I admit that if he had a player he could pass to his play would be better....somebody commented that’s he holding the ball too much and inviting trouble...I agree).
Our midfield is now pretty much non-existent......with the lack of creativity and strength/presence we already had and now injuries.....Moyes....PLEASE fix that in the summer!
Kenwright...........give him some MONEY!!!!
One can rant and rave and cheer and cajole, whatever feelings you have on a per game basis..I watched the game last night and was appalled at just how bad we were.....HOWEVER, even though the season isn’t over one must look at the season overall.............and PROVIDING we retain 5th place this season is a success.
That said I will admit that it’s been a disappointing ending to the season ..... since the PK shoot-out we’ve been awful.....absolutely awful...no other way of putting it.
Injuries have taken their toll...YES, small squad has taken it’s toll.....YES, Liverpool (the bastards!) coming on strong when it matters has taken it’s toll, mebbe even Moyes and his ability/inability to pick his players up (wow, that’s the first time I’ve criticised the boss!) has taken it’s toll too but as I said the season when it finishes is what matters.......5th place(?), a fantastic run in the UEFA Cup, semi-final of the League Cup.............it could have been far, far worse................with a few extra players, with a bit of luck on the injury front, a bit of luck with refs (and a fucking PK or two) I admit it could have been a lot better too!
I think fate and our season’s tail-end finish have probably handed 4th spot to LFC......rather than them taking it from us.....................for the lack of money though, Moyes ain’t done too bad.
This summer is critical in terms of bringing "good" players in.
Neville, VDM, Gravesen must go.
Vaughn will hopefully be like a new signing next season.
Carsley needs replacing now.
Hibbert and Carsley should only be squad players.
Still unsure about Manny (although I admit that if he had a player he could pass to his play would be better....somebody commented that’s he holding the ball too much and inviting trouble...I agree).
Our midfield is now pretty much non-existent......with the lack of creativity and strength/presence we already had and now injuries.....Moyes....PLEASE fix that in the summer!
Kenwright...........give him some MONEY!!!!
Ged Simpson
3 Posted 13/04/2008 at 18:09:13
3 Posted 13/04/2008 at 18:09:13
Michael .....can you send us all an e-mail alert when we are allowed to comment on more than just the last game.
Though it seems from your comment we can we are obvioulsy allowed to predict an "utterly demoralising Moyes-[un-]inspired whimper."
Our (get that....our) forum is for varety of views. Some fans need to find someone to blame immediately, others see a pattern or a reason that is, to them, more complex. Both views have a place and value.
Keep your editorial to offensive remarks not guiding how we react to games.
Though it seems from your comment we can we are obvioulsy allowed to predict an "utterly demoralising Moyes-[un-]inspired whimper."
Our (get that....our) forum is for varety of views. Some fans need to find someone to blame immediately, others see a pattern or a reason that is, to them, more complex. Both views have a place and value.
Keep your editorial to offensive remarks not guiding how we react to games.
Ajay Gopal
4 Posted 13/04/2008 at 18:25:40
4 Posted 13/04/2008 at 18:25:40
Yes, our team has petered out most disappointingly over the last 5 games.
But, guess what ? Even so called great teams like Arsenal have seen their season end in disappointment - injuries, fatigue, referee decisions, etc. Sounds familiar ?
I doubt that Man United would have been sitting so pretty in 1st place if THEY had the injuries to Ronaldo, Tevez, etc. Same for Liverpool, could you imagine them being 5 points off us, if Torres or Gerrard had been injured ? I think not !
The point is: Yes, we have played crap football recently, but you cannot discount the injuries that have taken a toll on the team.
Four more games to go. I have a funny feeling that the boys in blue will turn it on again against Chelsea. 2-1 to Everton !! COYB !!!
But, guess what ? Even so called great teams like Arsenal have seen their season end in disappointment - injuries, fatigue, referee decisions, etc. Sounds familiar ?
I doubt that Man United would have been sitting so pretty in 1st place if THEY had the injuries to Ronaldo, Tevez, etc. Same for Liverpool, could you imagine them being 5 points off us, if Torres or Gerrard had been injured ? I think not !
The point is: Yes, we have played crap football recently, but you cannot discount the injuries that have taken a toll on the team.
Four more games to go. I have a funny feeling that the boys in blue will turn it on again against Chelsea. 2-1 to Everton !! COYB !!!
Andrew Brophy
5 Posted 13/04/2008 at 18:58:51
5 Posted 13/04/2008 at 18:58:51
Ged - I suspect that Michael was not trying to set editorial policy, but express his own personal opinion. He is allowed to you know. As are you.
Simon Hopper
6 Posted 13/04/2008 at 19:20:19
6 Posted 13/04/2008 at 19:20:19
Michael Kenrick, you get the perspective comments perhaps to balance out the multitude of overly negative responses to a draw. Currently, we are the best of the rest and trying hard to bridge a huge gap without anywhere near the same resources. It’s not good enough BUT it is getting there slowly but surely. Those people doubting Moyes, please tell us who you would realistically sign for a total of £15m to suddenly have us beating Man Utd regularly. Remember: Utd beat us twice with late goals this year, Fiorentina did us on pens, the RS took 12 men to beat our 9 at Goodison, we lost 4-1 to Arsenal despite playing them off the park, we drew at Chelski... I could go on. There are positives, albeit small ones, and before we all slit our wrists because we are only 5th, I do think we need to have a sense of perspective. We could be 4th having spent 10 times as much money...
Frank Duffy
7 Posted 13/04/2008 at 19:33:50
7 Posted 13/04/2008 at 19:33:50
We might finish 5th but we are poor when compared to the teams above us. They have pace, the player with the ball has more than one option and tthey look as though are enjoying themselves.
Sure injuries are an issue but most seem to occur when the team is struggling. And goodness knows what the players do in training - free kicks, corners, shots are a joke. And the less said about the ’long ball’ the better. When we play it on the deck we look very good but doing it in one game in every five is not just good enough.
We don’t have to spend a fortune on players ( c1985 team cost buttons) but they played with pride, commtment and heart.
Lets hope Moyes realises this before its too late and the game against Chelsea is one little step forward.
Sure injuries are an issue but most seem to occur when the team is struggling. And goodness knows what the players do in training - free kicks, corners, shots are a joke. And the less said about the ’long ball’ the better. When we play it on the deck we look very good but doing it in one game in every five is not just good enough.
We don’t have to spend a fortune on players ( c1985 team cost buttons) but they played with pride, commtment and heart.
Lets hope Moyes realises this before its too late and the game against Chelsea is one little step forward.
Dave Griffin
8 Posted 13/04/2008 at 19:49:01
8 Posted 13/04/2008 at 19:49:01
One thing is for sure. For most of the past 20 seasons the Everton crowd have performed better than the Everton team. This season the team have performed better than the crowd - by a country mile. The best season since the mid-1980s and all we get is whinge, whinge, whinge. Grow up, get into the real world and celebrate what Everton have achieved this season. It might not be this good again for a long time.
Anthony Newell
9 Posted 13/04/2008 at 19:46:30
9 Posted 13/04/2008 at 19:46:30
Nobody is saying the season is a disaster, just some (myself included) are saying that it ain’t as ’great’ as some people are making out. There were very good opportunities to reach a final of a cup competiton this season and break into the top four. We have frittered away both these chances and now hope to cling onto fifth place. Getting to a final and/or securing top four is a great season in my eyes. Moyes has been here 6 years and we still can’t win in those big games, our midfield is crap and we still have a reluctance to pass the football along the ground. Lets stop this being grateful for small mercies bollocks and get this club pushed forward to what is truly GREAT
Michael Kenrick
10 Posted 13/04/2008 at 21:33:21
10 Posted 13/04/2008 at 21:33:21
Well said, Anthony. Again it’s this pathetic mentality that, "six years ago we were relegation fodder, so be grateful for the progress we have made." Closely followed by "if we’d been offered 5th last August, we’d have taken it." Well, bollocks to that. We made progress under Moyes by finishing 4th in 2004-05. That set a new standard for Moyes... one which he has subsequently failed to meet.
It looked for a long while this season like he had progressed the team above and beyond that level, but these last few games I fear show us the true level.. and it’s hoofball all the way, sad to say.
The last few games have been pretty close to a disaster but nobody is slitting their wrists. What are doing is saying we played poorly and saying we could play better. Injuries and a small squad are not adequate excuses for resorting to hoofball.
HOOF, HOOF, HOOF, HOOF, HOOF...
It looked for a long while this season like he had progressed the team above and beyond that level, but these last few games I fear show us the true level.. and it’s hoofball all the way, sad to say.
The last few games have been pretty close to a disaster but nobody is slitting their wrists. What are doing is saying we played poorly and saying we could play better. Injuries and a small squad are not adequate excuses for resorting to hoofball.
HOOF, HOOF, HOOF, HOOF, HOOF...
Rob Hollis
11 Posted 13/04/2008 at 21:54:50
11 Posted 13/04/2008 at 21:54:50
I don’t know if we can afford it, but I think we are probably about four players away from making that top 4.
The football is annoying at the moment, but four additional players of quality instead of Neville, Hibbert, Graveson and VDM would probably enable Moyes to change and substitute when he needed to.
As we have not signed Pienaar or Fernandes as yet then the four becomes six. We can’t afford it so I have wasted my time writing and you reading.
Perhaps we should issue a disaster type appeal for £30 million?
The football is annoying at the moment, but four additional players of quality instead of Neville, Hibbert, Graveson and VDM would probably enable Moyes to change and substitute when he needed to.
As we have not signed Pienaar or Fernandes as yet then the four becomes six. We can’t afford it so I have wasted my time writing and you reading.
Perhaps we should issue a disaster type appeal for £30 million?
Anthony Horabin
12 Posted 14/04/2008 at 07:19:16
12 Posted 14/04/2008 at 07:19:16
Going back to basics is required. Passing the ball to each other with confidence is a fundemental requirement in the game and Everton have not got that at the moment. Long balls up to our strikers is not the way. So we need to buy some players who are comfortable with the ball at their feet and are able to pass to our own players. At the moment the team does not contain enough of these types of players.
I hope Moyes and the board can see what we has fans have been seeing for the past few weeks and do something about it for next season.
I hope Moyes and the board can see what we has fans have been seeing for the past few weeks and do something about it for next season.
Gaz Davies
13 Posted 14/04/2008 at 07:56:12
13 Posted 14/04/2008 at 07:56:12
In response to Michael...
Talk about making a rod for your own back! When we finished 4th in 2004 it was a massive achievement, although somewhat of an overachievement. Still, I think it?s somewhat unfair to criticise this years performance in reation to it. Although it was only four years ago the football ?climate? has changed some, with another four or five teams being bought into by billionaires. The fact that we have managed to stay ahead of most of these in the league (RS excluded) is testament to the good management of a good bunch of players.
I believe we?ll continue to improve.
Talk about making a rod for your own back! When we finished 4th in 2004 it was a massive achievement, although somewhat of an overachievement. Still, I think it?s somewhat unfair to criticise this years performance in reation to it. Although it was only four years ago the football ?climate? has changed some, with another four or five teams being bought into by billionaires. The fact that we have managed to stay ahead of most of these in the league (RS excluded) is testament to the good management of a good bunch of players.
I believe we?ll continue to improve.
Dave Whitwell
14 Posted 14/04/2008 at 08:06:44
14 Posted 14/04/2008 at 08:06:44
I think our biggest barrier to progression at the moment is undoubtedly the depth of our squad. I don’t believe our midfield is crap, I think when all are fit we play better football and have more confidence, what has surprised me a lot is the effect of the Fiorentina game has had on us, it does seem to have effectively ended our season in a not disimilar way to the CL exit a few years back. It does worry me what effect it may have had or indeed could have in future if we were to go out even earlier?
Tony Williams
15 Posted 14/04/2008 at 08:55:31
15 Posted 14/04/2008 at 08:55:31
MIchael, so you think that an Everton fans perspective on how we have progressed "in six years" is pathetic because we don’t subscribe to your view, that we should be getting 4th because we managed it a few years ago? Strange attitude that.
I am not making any excuses for the last four games, as we have been shambolic but when we look at the season as a whole to date, we have reached the highest Premier points tally ever, reached farther in the Carling Cup since "Fottball began with Sky" and had our best run in the Wafer Cup.
Perhaps the "Hoofball" is because our ball playing midfielders have either forgotten how to play, been injured most of the season or are unable to play now.
I was put in pre-mod due to you feeling that I was being sarcastic, yet you continue to have a go at fellow fans because they don’t tow your party line.
Not quite fair is it?
I am not making any excuses for the last four games, as we have been shambolic but when we look at the season as a whole to date, we have reached the highest Premier points tally ever, reached farther in the Carling Cup since "Fottball began with Sky" and had our best run in the Wafer Cup.
Perhaps the "Hoofball" is because our ball playing midfielders have either forgotten how to play, been injured most of the season or are unable to play now.
I was put in pre-mod due to you feeling that I was being sarcastic, yet you continue to have a go at fellow fans because they don’t tow your party line.
Not quite fair is it?
Alan Clarke
16 Posted 14/04/2008 at 21:02:17
16 Posted 14/04/2008 at 21:02:17
The reason you get this ’perspective’ nonsense is as a result of this complete over reaction to a run of bad form. Michael et al have been circling Moyes like vultures all season salivating and waiting for this point where our form dips so they can swoop in and feast on his ’negative hoofball’ tactics. You lot couldn’t wait to start accusing Moyes of reverting to type. I know because I used to be a vulture. If you ever checked my posts from seasons past I’ve been one of Moyes’ biggest critics.
This season has been enjoyable on the whole and I can see where we are heading under Moyes. I can understand why we are shit at the moment because we only have between 13 and 14 decent players so if we suffer injuries we can’t cope. It’s not that you can’t criticise Moyes because he does get it wrong still (e.g. persistently playing Neville) but I think Moyes needs some praise for assembling a squad that cost very little money compared with the 4 above us. Yet when we only take 4 points from 4 games some sections want Moyes’ head on a plate. It demonstrates a total lack of knowledge of the modern climate of football. Moyes cannot go out and buy a Torres or a Berbatov that will make us a great team instead he has to scratch around for players like Pienaar and haggle over a £2.2. mil price tag.
To me the vultures are becoming very tedious and are starting to sound like the barcodes or that Thai dictator in charge of Man City. You really need to gain some perspective.
This season has been enjoyable on the whole and I can see where we are heading under Moyes. I can understand why we are shit at the moment because we only have between 13 and 14 decent players so if we suffer injuries we can’t cope. It’s not that you can’t criticise Moyes because he does get it wrong still (e.g. persistently playing Neville) but I think Moyes needs some praise for assembling a squad that cost very little money compared with the 4 above us. Yet when we only take 4 points from 4 games some sections want Moyes’ head on a plate. It demonstrates a total lack of knowledge of the modern climate of football. Moyes cannot go out and buy a Torres or a Berbatov that will make us a great team instead he has to scratch around for players like Pienaar and haggle over a £2.2. mil price tag.
To me the vultures are becoming very tedious and are starting to sound like the barcodes or that Thai dictator in charge of Man City. You really need to gain some perspective.
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But there are four matches left. And people wil react to how we play, one gane at a time. That's what this forum is for. Let's wait until the season ends and then assess how good it really was ? especially if it ends on yet another utterly demoralising Moyes-[un-]inspired whimper.