It is funny how differently people see things. I felt like that after watching the Fulham game; everyone said it was just a blib.. "a bad day at the office" or some such shite.

Call me stupid but I actually thought we played better last night than in any of the absolutely awful four games that preceded it. Not much better, mind, but the hoofball count was down, and they really tried to play it around a bit. Perhaps that was because Chelsea gave us a bit more space than the other yarddog teams we have played recently.

But there is no doubt we have slipped a long long way down from the heights we reached earlier iin the season, and that is depressing indeed. I think some other posts have captured it better: the problem last night was the entire game plan was utterly predictable, which is even more depressing. Oh god.. I'd better stop now!

In marathon terms, we’ve "hit-the-wall" and it’s a case of plugging-on hoping nobody overtakes us. There were one or two good performances last night - Phil Neville played as well as I’ve seen him for us and Fenrnandes raised his game but still below what was expected. I just didn’t get the substitutions. Piennar was one of our best performers. Graveson only ever passes sideways or backwards as far as I can see. Surely it’s time to mix it up a bit with Baines / Valente down the left and perhaps one or two "on the fringe" players thrown in. I’ve seen alot worse performances than last night but the bottom line is that if we don’t trouble the goalkeeper we don’t score.

I’m not claiming we played our best game of the season but we played better than the last few games. We didn’t create any chances though...

I agree with MK. We were all too predictable.

Sadly we are a long long way from competing with the top 4.

Cheslea’s positional play was spot on, every loose ball, and they were there to pick it up. When Chelsea had the ball they looked good on it and found their own men who were always looking for space and very quick and mobile. When we had the ball we were laboured and very easily closed down by Chelsea. Having said that they did not cause us too many problems and their goal got the large slice of luck that has been missing for us for far too long now. I also think that Peinaar was fouled on the edge of the box - should have been a penalty!

I know many fans don’t like Osman but I thought we missed him last night, although to be honest I am not sure he would have made a major difference.

I thought Fernandes had his best game so far and showed some signs of what we saw from him last season - but he does get caught on the ball far too easily and wants more time than he has on the ball. Would I buy him? Maybe but at no more than £6m.

Our fans were also crap last night and did not give the team much encouragement; we seemed to have the same attitude as the players in that we are low on confidence and did not look as though we believed we could get much more than a draw from the game.

The biggest thing wrong with us is the size of our squad.

There are some first team regulars who are no more than squad players such as Neville and Carsley, although I would give Carsley one more year on basis of being a squad player only.

I’m also fed up of Yobo thinking he is Carlos Alberto trying to dribble his way out from the back and hopelessly losing control of the ball but I am not sure in my mind whether he should be retained as a squad player or just sold (at least I think we could get some decent money for him).

I am sure we could all go through the squad with suggestions of players to get rid of. However, we just do not have the money to have the mass clear out that some fans will no doubt be clamouring for.

We are in desperate need of some real money to buy two or three top players and two or three decent squad players - but how much will it take and what players? Bentley? Barry? Huddlestone?


Having said all that I still think that despite our drop in performances and results we have had a decent season.

I was surprised as anyone when I saw Gravesen in for Pienaar??!! What was that all about? Taking out the most creative midfielder on our team last night (apart from Fernandes) and replacing with Gravesen??

Carsley should have come off. He was absolutely terrible last night

Look on the bright side. Our odds to win the Premiership without the Sky 4 have now been reined in to a value 1/3!
Do you feel lucky? Well, do yer?
Or is Pompey at 3/1 where the smart cash is?

Tactically, Moyes is poor. That’s the problem.

To say I felt depressed after last night’s performance and result would be an understatement. Well we have blown it and now if Portsmouth win on Saturday they will be 1 point behind us and the danger, of course, is Aston Villa who seem to have hit form just at the right time and we have to play them. No prizes for guessing the result. Ah well as long as they collect their pay packet that’s all that matters isn’t it? No service to Yakubu so how do you feed him? He’s not my favourite but its about time that mid field was sorted out - okay I know we were without Osman and Arteta but we do need to quality buy. But then were is the money to come from. We will never break into the top four without substantial money. Chelsea are going to have 100 million to spend on summer transfers, Man United, according to the newspapers, already have their buys lined up and God knows what the RS will fork out for - troubles or no troubles in the Board room. We don’t really stand a chance. All we can hope for is to be top of the rest.

What really peeved me was the fact that the cameras showed Osman and Cahill laughing their heads off at some private joke and we were losing. They couldn’t have cared a monkey’s - pity that we do!!
We can’t compete without some good midfield players. We will never break into the top 4 without a substantial amount of cash. Chelsea are already talking about spending 100 million in the summer transfer market. According to the media, Man U have already lined up their prospective buys and God knows what the RS will fork out - board room problems or no problems. All we can hope for is to be top of the rest. I honestly think we will be lucky if we get 7th place and that will be no advancement on last year. Okay I appreciate how well the boys did during the year but to be throwing it away at the crucial time beggars belief.

We have a small squad, have had a long season and its caught up with the players. Half the teams out injured and the other half are playing with injuries or are just plain knackered. Peanuts was probably taken off as he’s playing through the pain barrier, we have no other alternatives other then to bring on the gravedigger. We’ve a small squad who have done brilliantly this season. Why is everyone being so negative all of a sudden?! Are you so blind you can’t see that were predicatble cause were missing our best players and dont have a squad capable fo replacing them with players of equal class?! Yeah its frustrating we’ve tailed off but the players are still giving it their all, as is the manager... they are just totaly fucked!!! We don’t have a squad like Man U, Arse, Chelski or the Shite! Get over it! Get behind the team and pray we can hold on to 5th! If we don’t then we’ve still had a great season, and are definatly progressing in the right direction. For me I think the boys have done great and we need to get behind them for the last few games, not slag them or moyes off at every opportunity!

Andy Hudson (and others). It is all weel and good brining out the ’but we’ve got injuries and such a small squad’ argument but it just doesn’t add up when Moyes does nothing DIFFERENT to try and deal with it. West Ham have got a far worse injury problem than us this season but rather than just say ’oh well we’ve got nothing else in the first team squad so i’ll just stick with it’ he has experimented to try and get the results. A friend of mine is a West Ham fan and he told me that they hadn’t really been looking at Freddy Sears as the ’next big thing’ like we have done with Rooney, Jeffers, Vaughan etc over the last years but the manager took a chance and threw him in...... and look at what he did to us not long back!

I feel sometimes like Moyes reads these comments and says to himself ’sod what the fans think, i’ll do it my way!’ Why not recall Jutkiewiz, or Spencer, or even Viddarrson JUST TO TRY SOMETHING DIFFERENT OR HAVE AN OPTION!!! Why is this such an outrageous suggestion .... anything was better on the bench than Grav last night. When he came on he was appalling.

Why didn’t Baines come on? What has he done wrong? I listened to comments from the Sky and radio pundits last night who suggested on Baines coming on at left mid and moving Manny inside where he could dictate the play more. Look at the Carvalho tackle on AJ in the first half, but for a magnificent challenge from him AJ was away .... and set up by just the sort of pass that we have been crying out for. But no, we’ll put the only person capable of making passes like that on the wing . I just don’t get it.

People say to stop moaning and that it’s been a great season, progress, stability and all that. All well and good but how are we gonna attract all the great players that people talk about when we are not in Europe .... because at the end of the day that is what draws people to the club.

So yes we SHOULD be frustrated at where the season is going. A points record, great, but how is that a great achievement when it doesnt ACTUALLY get us anywhere?

Getting beat 1-0 by billionaire chelsea with our best players out injured is not the lowest of the low. Theres no shame in getting beat by the top 3 teams. What about the F.A cup first round knock out against a lower league team. Big over reaction this post.

David Moyes is an excellent manager when things are going well. He seems to be able to prolong periods of good form more than most managers, wqhich is the principle reason we are where we are today and where we finished last season.
However when things go wrong he is awful. He doesn’t seem to know what to do and seems intent on sticking with the same formations and the same players who have helped him in the past. Anyone remember the season after we finished 4th? He didn’t have a clue how to get the best out of the same players he had the season before.
He seems to have to wait for an outside influence to spur his team on, a lucky goal, a crap referee etc. When that happens he can build on this. However he shouldn’t have to wait for that to happen.
In short he can motivate players when they’re on top of their game, but he can’t seem to motivate players when they’re down.
It’s an old cliche but when he’s good he’s very good, when he’s bad he’s awful.

Andy - West Ham have got more injury worries than us? That?s what you get when you buy injury prone players ...Dyer, Bellamy and a few others spring to mind!!

We all know about the lack of transfer funds, lack of quality in a small sqaud. BUT even with cahs to improve it all, David Moyes isn’t the man to take us any further. he has no plan B. His decisions of Substitutions, when did they ever pay oof. Our performances are just too predictable and dreadfull on the eye.

Andy Brittenden you said " West Ham have got a far worse injury problem than us this season but rather than just say ?oh well we?ve got nothing else in the first team squad so i?ll just stick with it? he has experimented to try and get the results".

Damn I wish we were having as good a season of West Ham... i’m really jealous of their success this season?! Also are you telling me that if West Ham were trying to cling on to 5th they’d be fielding a bunch of kids?! Of course they wouldn’t! They’ve nothing to play for, no pressure and can experiment to their hearts content knowing that it doesn’t really matter if they win or lose! Also didn’t Freddy Sears miss a golden chance right at the end of our match against em?

People keep saying ’moyes can only play one way’. I’d like to see Wenger make our current crop of players stroke the ball around like Brazil! For fucks sake we’ve got carlsey and neville in midfield... what do you expect them to do?! If I was Moyes i’d encourage them to hoof it long too as its safer for them to give the ball away in the oppositions half then try and stroke it around in their own half!

Substitutions rarely pay of... guess why? Cause the players we have to bring on are shit! Else why would the likes of Neville be playing in midfield anyways?!

I remember when we had everyone fit and turned people over playing some great football... yeah it only lasted a few games, but given the right squad we’d be capable of playing good football throughout the season.

We have a shit squad, half our 1st team wouldn’t even get in most of the teams in mid table, yet we’ve had 2 good cup runs and are 5th! Don’t quote me this NSNO bollocks, were not at a level where we can even dream of being the best in the league. Were not even in the top 8 on paper, given our squad.

I’m really at a loss to understand what people think we should be achieving given our squad and lack of money. I really do beleive that some fans feel we should be winning the league, FA cup, league cup and champions league... and even then they’d still not be happy.

Yes i’m disappointed and frustrated with the way our season’s fading away... do you really think that were not all feeling that way. But some of us aren’t short sighted enough to recognise the progress we’ve made this season and recogise the lack of depth in our squad thats causing us to play dire football just now. It won’t change before the end of the season, there’s a fair chance we’ll not hold on to 5th. I don’t blame the players or manager as they’ve given everything they can this season, and if they fall short of our expectations then so be it... I for one think they should be congratulated on their efforts this year.

Patty, West Ham have got more than the usual suspects out though and that’s the point. The other point is that at least Curbs is willing to do something about it.

Lowest of the low ???

Sorry, can’t agree as Fulham, West Ham, Liverpool, Derby and Birmingham were all worse !!

Look at that list and remove Liverpool. What’s left is absolute shite and we only beat ONE of them !! If we don’t finish 5th this is the reason why.

Yes Sears did miss a sitter against us........ but in a game we SHOULD have won and if we had would have gone a long way towards the race for 4th. In the end we dropped two points and have been on a run that at this rate could see us finish 6th or 7th and out of ALL the European places and therefore end up with not a lot more than West Ham except a few hundred grand for finishing a couple of places higher than them ..... yep that will get us a lot won’t it!

Yeah but that hasn’t happened yer Andy. I think you need to just wait and see what happens. I think we’ll finish 6th which I still think will be an achievement given the strains of such a small squad. If we finish 7th then I would think we’d underachieved, but I really am at a loss as to what you think we should be achieving and how we’d go about it?

Pompey spent a bucket load on buying Defoe in Jan, thats the only reason they are now hot on our heals... money! We aint got it and so our squad is weaker then theirs. How much would we love a Krankjar (or however you spell it) or Muntari in our midfield at present. But we don’t have it, and none of our youth or reserve players are of this quality. Were stuck with what we’ve got... a knackered, half dead squad. We can only hope we limp over the line in either 5th or 6th... I don’t think the players can give any more, and the managers tactics are dictated by the players available to him.

I think were only 2 midfielders off a team good enough to finish 4th, but until the summer were stuck with the rubbish we have.

But how do you know until you TRY? That is my point. We may have a small squad, but we do have a squad all the same. He has pretty much played the same team for the last five, six or seven games and it hasn’t worked against lesser opposition so why would it have worked against Chelsea. Why can’t Moyes put any one of those players on the bench last night just to see if it could have worked? Why not bring on Baines?

You say that if we finish 6th you will be pleased, why? 6th doesn’t get us into Europe, and therefore doesn’t make us as attractive a proposition for potential new signings. It was the Europe aspect that really got us the Yak after all.

That is what I am saying. Your stance of ’we can’t do any better’ suggests that we might as well forfeit the rest of this season because after-all nothing is gonna change.

I have loved watching the boys at times this season, especially those special European nights. Finishing worse off than last season is NOT progress.

Sorry maybe had a few too many last night. It was an overeaction. The Fulham game was much worse. I just cant believe how poor we are playing. I am sick of false dawns. One of my mates said that Liverpool had too many 7/10 players. Would you give any of the players last night 7/10?

Phil,

I would have given Manny that last night cos I thought he had another good solid game. He was definitely looking to pass and move the ball but unfortunately there was nothing available for him. Moyes gave him far too much to do on the left, expecting him to be creative but also deal with SWP and Ferreira. I also thought Lescott played well. I would definitely like to see him playing full time at centre back and next seasons captain.

Well actually we?d qualify for the InterToto which is not the lengthy qualifying process it was in previous years. So I?d be pretty confident we?d qualify for the Eufa cup this way.

Fair point about Baines, that one baffled me too.

I think as Moyes works with these players everyday he knows they aren?t any good, he?s not an idiot... if he had a gem of a player on the bench he?d play them. He obviously doesn?t rate them and I trust his judgement on that.

The player playing in the 1st team aren?t good enough at the moment, but the players in reserve are even worse... whats Moyes gonna do?

I?m not prepared to forfeit the season, as with an almighty effort we could still finish 5th... I for one dont care how we do that. If we win all 3 of our remaining games 1-0 with only having one shot on goal every game i?d take it.

The fact is we have to be realistic about what we can achieve, and how we can play given the current situation. I hope we can finish 5th, at a push i?d take 6th... but I look at the players available, then look at the teams below us and their resources and accept its going to be tough. I don?t blame the manager or the players, if we had been knocked out by the Mentalists in the Eufa Qualifying rounds we?d probs not be looking over our shoulders now. Problem is Lots of matches x small squad = fatigue at the end of the season.

We have no players in reserve that are worth playing, yeah we could give the likes of Andy the Van Man a game but he?d be no good, Vidarsson? Not a premier league player, rodwell... defender, Anichibe... not good enough but if were gonna lump it forward might as well give him a game.

There?s only Baines we could play (and I agree with you that we should be playing him). Other then that who is there? It's all well and good saying ?give them a try?. But who would you give a try to? If Moyes thought they were any good he would do this.

Definitely Vidarrson, who has already played in the prem and FA cup albeit fleetingly. I would have had him on the bench at least. I know everyone bashes me for it but ..... why not give VDM a go. HE’s a better left winger than Neville whether he’s shit-faced or not!!!! And finally what would have been wrong with giving Agard fifteen mins.

I saw nothing tactical in the substitutions last night and just don’t know what Moyes was trying to do in bringing Vic and Grav on.

In the last few weeks we have seen Lecott and Jags playing UP FRONT at times and that causes me to question the whole ’moyes knows his players’ ethos.

I’m not saying that we should be winning the league with the squad we have, i’m just asking for Moyes to be a bit more imaginative with the one we have to try and break up the monotony of seven poor performances on the bounce.

I also acknowldge the issue of the Intertoto but it is only a POSSIBILITY as Man City , Villa and Blackburn have applied for it too and both are snapping at our heels so it is by know means guaranteed.

The Intertoto is about the ONLY way we?re gonna qualify at this rate...garnted that this performance wasn?t as bad as some other recent games but it was still shite, other than Fernandez?s free kicks we never threatend their goal....And I?m sorry to all the people who I?m about to upset but ....CARSLEY & NEVILLE HAS GOT TO GO ...THEY ARE SHITE !! We will NEVER and I mean NEVER win anything whilst these two buffoons are in the centre of our midfield,,,,and as for Tommy ?loose cannon? Gravesen...words fail me !!

I think Moyes has shown in the past that if a young player is good enough he’ll play them regardless of the opposition. Out of the youngsters he’s release none have gone on to do anything so I dont think there is much to be gained from putting young players in now. Although saying that we do have one or two promising kids its too much of a pressurised time to be putting them in. I’d love to see Jose Baxter get some 1st team experience, but it can be detrimental to the player to blood them too young.

Andy the Van Man doesn’t deserve a 1st team spot. But if it helped us win games i’d give him a go... problem is if he gets injured its gonna be even harder to offload him in the summer, so I can understand Moyes not wanting to play him. Plus have you ever tried to play football pissed? Its horrible! Best off not putting VDM through that.

Yeah the intertoto isn’t nailed on and i’m a bit twitchy about that too. I still think we’ll make it to either 5th or 6th. I would be gutted if we came 7th... although i’d still accept the reasons for our season falling away.

I think we just need to wait and see what happens between now and the end of the season. If we can get Arteta and Ossie back it’ll make a huge difference in our play and our chances of finishing 5th or 6th.

We got outplayed by a team that cost god knows how much to put together, a team that had over £50 millions worth on the bench.

We had 4 very, very influential attacking players out, we havent got the squad to cope with it. I said when we were flying after the City game that we had a good first 11 and a couple of decent subs when everyones fit. I stand by that. We just havent got the squad to cope with 3 or 4 of those first 13 being injured.

Next year will be a big struggle unless we spend big in the summer, so by the way some on here are carrying on at the moment, the mersey rescue team are going to have to be working overtime next year to cope with all the end of the world blues knocking about.

Andy - "Curbs is willing to do something about it".....he shouldn?t have bought so many injury prone players in the first place!!

Barry Cass - How can you include West Ham? We beat them twice in one week [ league and cup] and the return game was 1 - 1 and if you remember, Yakubu had a perfectly good goal disallowed which had it been allowed to stand would have meant we won the game.

According to the Echo, it was the ??Clattenburg derby?? that motivated and inspired the team this season.
What are we waiting for.. Clattenburg/Moyes anyone?

I suppose you are right, Patty. If those injury prone players had been with us Moyes would have carried on playing them whether they were injured or not, just like he has with Cahill, Arteta and Pienaar.

And what with Vaughan, Anichebe and Cahill being so relaible on the persistent injury front.......

Andy Hudson,

Unless I am much mistaken Van Der Meyde is (finally) out of contract in the summer and therefore getting rid of him will be a piece of piss.

I suspect he may already have gone given his total disappearing act in the last few months.

Andy - we could argue all day - in fact we are beginning to sound like an old married couple!!! Only kidding before you get the wind up!!

I think its unfair of you to say that Moyes would have carried on playing injury prone players had they been with us. Cahill if you remember wanted to play so badly for Australia that he did so and that?s probably why his foot problem reoccurred because it wasn?t healed completely - anyway I blame the modern boot although I did think that Cahill had had special ones made following his first toe problem.

As for Arteta, he has seen Spanish Specialists a couple of times that I know of and if they felt he could play on then that?s fair enough - he is probably going to have an operation or exploratory op in the summer and will probably miss pre-season training.

As for Vaughyn - the lad is injury prone I agree but wasn?t when he came out of the Youth Academy. You do get players like that you know ... remember Franny Jug Ears Jeffers?

Paul Mosses

stop with the "knee-jerk" tag whenever we?ve had a bad result or 7, and getting all nostalgic about the relegation fights, as if you?re using it as a benchmark.

I don?t think anyone here is wanting to return to those dark days, in fact I think it?s a sign of the progress we have made at the club in the last 6 years that our expectations have been raised. I think most of us would take a top 6 finish, but this squad is capable of so much more. And this is why we?re moaning. Whether it be through bad luck on the pitch or injuries off it, our squad is capable of finishing top 5 and challenging for the top 4.

Having said that, why is everyone moaning at the fact we?re about to finish in the top 7 for the 2nd season in a row, the first time we?ve done that for, ooh, about 17 years? This season has been a comparative success and let?s not allow the last 6 or 7 games cloud over what has been a season of progress of this team.

Dave I stand corrected. Good ridance to him too I say.

Still was worth a punt at £1.75m or whatever we payed for him.

Andy - Vaughan & Anichibe are youth team products so you can’t compare them to the players Curbishley bought... your argument there doesn’t stand up as Moyes never bought them. Yeah Moyes might have continued to play injured players but we’ve got more to play for the West Ham, and he wants his most experienced players out there fighting for him... i’d do the same if I had the same options on the bench as he does. Would you really have dropped Arteta and Pienaar and played VDM and Vidarsson instead? Seriously?

No mate but I would have had them both on the bench!