Driving home tonight, I felt for the very first time that we`ve reached the pinnacle with Moyes. The guy`s done a good job in stabilising the club and we all know Blue Bill thinks the sun shines out of his arse. But let`s be honest, if Everton suddenly came into money ? say £30 Million ? would you trust Davey Boy to spend it wisely? I don't think I could and that's why we shall never really trouble the Big Four.
It's a sad fact that we are blessed with a sound manager who hasn't got a clue about putting a class side together. OK, he's a workaholic but he's a man with limited vision obsessed with defensive theories.
He`ll never manage a top side ? here or anywhere else ?- and because his parsimonious approach suits his bosses he`s got a job for life with Everton. So he won`t be banging down the door for that £30mil ? he just wouldn`t know what to do with it!
Calum Maher, Posted 18/04/2008 at 00:43:44
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Moyes isn't perfect, he continues to make mistakes and his powers of motivation appear to be finite, but the fact is that he's in with a decent shout of achieving consecutive top-six finishes with a team that contains Hibbert, Neville, Carsley and Gravesen (the cold, hard truth is that they need to be removed from the first-team equation at the start of next season) and I can't think of a manager who would join us that could do better. We've hit a glass ceiling on all fronts — playing staff, stadium, investment, the works — and it's pretty depressing.
1 Posted 18/04/2008 at 05:56:21
That aside, I think it’s one heck of an assumption on your part that Moyes would screw it up even if he did have the money........on what basis do you determine that?
Let’s see: Lescott, Arteta, Howard, Pienaar, Cahill etc....small amounts of money, brilliant players.
Yes some transfers haven’t worked but all managers are the same........offhand I’d say Wenger is probably the only exception to that rule (apart from Gallas the Wazzuck).
And when he was given a large chunk...he got The Yak. Need I say more?
To be honest, I’d like to see Moyes with 30M to spend in one go.......he might mess it up but I can’t see any evidence to support that as fact before it’s happened.
I mean, come on, we’re screaming for money and before he’s got it he’s screwed it up.....give the guy a chance.
By the way, I would agree he’s defensive minded (that’s why our defense is brilliant) and the new assistant coach -- if he ever gets one -- can hopefully influence the midfield/attacking end of things....and likely transfers too.
I do foresee another summer of checking the gossip/news every fricking day, 24/7........exciting innit?
2 Posted 18/04/2008 at 07:15:40
Moyes all the way! :) With money, definitely!
3 Posted 18/04/2008 at 07:30:37
4 Posted 18/04/2008 at 07:08:34
I like Moyes as a man but his percentage tactics and loyalty for too many shit players drives me insane.
The standard ov football being dished out is terrible. I’ve had enough and no longer after this season am i being subjected to this shit. It’s so depressing and I just can’t get excited anymore about Everton. Moyes can only do so much but honest to god he doesn’t help himself sometimes. It’s draining watchin that carry on.
After Kenwright’s and Wyness’s antics over the last year or so I decided that they can shove it and no way after this season will they get another penny out ov me.
I do not support their vision for the club and the way they have treated supporters and the lies they have told re stadium issue etc in my eyes is the highest form ov treson.
While fans go the match and pay money things will never change at Everton and the only way to put an end to this shambles is not to go anymore. After giving them countless amount’s ov dosh for over 50 years i can safely say i’ve done my bit.
If your not happy and are complaining all the time the answer is simple "Don’t Go" it’s the only way these fuckn morons get the message coz while there is a full house these deluded whoppers think everything is rosy in the garden.
All this "follow them through thick and thin" nonsense is just plain stupidity and Kenwright and Wyness are laughing all the way to the bank!!!
5 Posted 18/04/2008 at 07:56:42
What I don’t trust Moyes with however is substitutions when chasing a game. Now my managerial abilities are limited to Football Manager on the PC, but surely anyone can see that when you need a goal you must sacrifice a holding midfield man for a more creative player, not the only winger that you have on the pitch, who I believe was just begin to play well.
Having said all of that I didn’t think we were two bad last night, given the quality of the opposition. My main frustration was the inablitity of our strikers to hold the ball. Now I accept that they don’t always get the best delivery, but when the ball is played to feet, as it was a number of times to the Yak, it must be held to allow midfield players to get forward. The number of times he could have taken the ball out wide (rather than mis-controlling, or passing straight back to Nev/Cars, at least going out wide would have dragged either Terry or Carvalio out there hence leaving gaps in the middle, as for AJ i’m struggling to remember when he even touched the ball!
6 Posted 18/04/2008 at 08:08:31
7 Posted 18/04/2008 at 08:20:22
If not Moyes then who and would £30m be enough for the new manager?
8 Posted 18/04/2008 at 08:40:04
9 Posted 18/04/2008 at 08:37:14
Davey is the best ’pound for pound’in the game-no contest-but where’s the 30mil coming from eh?
10 Posted 18/04/2008 at 08:38:58
Jay your an idiot! Loyalty for too many shit players? Ok then who the fuck is he gonna play instead of them?! We have no fucking team as they’re all either injured or running on empty. Moyes’ hands are tied when it comes to team selection. We don’t have the depth of squad even teams like Newcastle and Spurs have, yet we’ve coped with 2 cup runs and are still 5th with a few games left! I think your comments fit neatly in to the "knee jerk reaction" category. Yeah you pay yer money, and you have a right to voice your opinion but your comment above was just plain stupid
11 Posted 18/04/2008 at 08:59:29
12 Posted 18/04/2008 at 09:14:47
13 Posted 18/04/2008 at 09:19:06
14 Posted 18/04/2008 at 09:00:53
Moyes tactics are so negative, and if nothing is on hoof it too the corners to let a headless chicken(Johnson) chase it to bounce of a couple of 6ft 4 centre halfs or a lazy excuse for a centre forard (yakubu) to put his arms into the air and say "running and effort is not my game".
There is no excuse for the way he encourages his team to play football. No excuse!! Don’t use bad excuses like injuries and who’s he goona bring in!! It is painfully obvious even to someone as brain dead as Trigger that Neville, Hibbert, Carsley, Johnson etc are totally out of their depth so why keep putting them in the startin XI???
I’d rather watch a team full of young lads pulling their tripes out and trying to play football than watch a bunch ov overrated, overpaid, talentless clowns.
I seriously have to question what game do some fans watch?? All top managers are ruthless and if you are not doing a job for them then you are lashed end ov story.
Everton play one way and have no variation to their play and never give the opposition anything to think about. It’s easy to set up against Everton!!!
15 Posted 18/04/2008 at 09:28:07
16 Posted 18/04/2008 at 09:40:32
So Jay with a few games left and everything to play for you?d drop experienced players and replace them with a bunch of kids against Chelsea?! What are you on? We?d be turned over big style! Yeah were really defensive against teams and its frustrating to watch, but if we?d ground out a 0-0 draw everyone would be saying it was a good result! Playing a bunch of kids we?d have no chance of getting anything from the game. We don?t have the players to replace the likes of carsley, hibbert, johnson. If Vaughan hadn?t got injured he?d probs be given a chance but he?s not available, neither is Arteta or Cahill. If we had chelsea?s reserves and were playing hibbert etc over them, then i?d say you had a valid point... as it stands i?m afraid I couldn?t disagree with you more. Yeah a lot of our players aren?t good enough to play for a top 5 team... doesn?t it make even more remarkable that we?ve done so well this season?!
17 Posted 18/04/2008 at 09:32:32
It really depresses me when you see this idiot in the press whenever we win but is like Lord Lucan when we lose. This 24/7 search for investment still has found any takers!! Would you give your money and let this prick take the credit for it? £78 million to move to Kirkby?? No thanks, put another tier on the Park End and buy some players.
For me, he is the single most reason why we won?t really put the ?Sky4? under any real pressure. This man brought us Keith Wyness from that HUGE club ABERDEEN and Robert Elstone (who is a joke) to run our club !! Keith ?Kirkby won?t cost us anything? Wyness who promised us we?d be in the top 20 rich list each year. However, the fact we made it in there for that 1 season was because we?d sold Wayne Rooney.
And for me this is why we?ll have to put up with Carsley and Neville in midfield for the foreseable future unless Bill "pulls some rabbits out of a hat" , to quote the prick!
Oh well lets not be too downhearted as soon we?ll be watchin a team full of Carsley and Nevilles in half full tin stadium in a place nobody wants to be!!
18 Posted 18/04/2008 at 09:49:02
19 Posted 18/04/2008 at 09:49:19
20 Posted 18/04/2008 at 09:51:52
21 Posted 18/04/2008 at 09:57:08
Everyone at works wind me up about Johnson, as his is the most expensive flop amongst strikesr currently in the divsion. And don’t say he scored 2 against Liverpool, that was the last & only time he has scored twice in a premiership match AND it was over 18 months ago. So YES Moyes has had the money.
22 Posted 18/04/2008 at 10:13:37
Darren Bent played started 14 matches, came on as a sub 17 times, 8 goals
Andrew Johnson 26 and 10 matches, 10 goals .
If Johnson is a flop, Bent surely is one as well and he cost Spurs at least twice as much.
23 Posted 18/04/2008 at 10:15:37
Moyes if given £30 mill will spend it wisely some. the flops he bought where because he was forced to buy bargin basment players the VDM tommy G?s etc.
24 Posted 18/04/2008 at 10:04:05
That’s what letterbox head hansen said on MOTD about Fergie having the bottle to throw a load ov kids in Man U’s side years ago.
Looks like the experienced players are gonna make a james blunt of it in the race for finishing 5th if you ask me.
I’d think more ov Moyes if he had the courage to change things coz the tried and tested does not work.
25 Posted 18/04/2008 at 10:22:10
That?s what letterbox head hansen said on MOTD about Fergie having the bottle to throw a load ov kids in Man U?s side years ago.
Jay i’d be happy for Moyes to throw a load of kids with the quality of Becks, Scholes, Giggs, Neville (Garry that is) etc. Problem is our youth players aint very good!
I agree we won’t finish 5th, I just don’t feel we have any options worth considering in our shallow pool of resources. I also feel Moyes would be lambasted for fielding a load of poor kids in the final few games when there is still so much to play for. I think he’d be criticised for giving up on the season.
I believe we probably need 4 points from the last 3 games to secure 5th. 1 or 3 of those must come against Villa. I feel we have a better chance of acheiving that with the experienced players we have over some very average youth team players.
a "craftsman is only as good as his tools"
Well said Patty, I couldn’t agree more!
26 Posted 18/04/2008 at 10:28:08
Moyes has continually improved the side since he has arrived. He’s done an incredible job of bringing in players to do a job on a pretty tight budget. Fair enough Carsley, Neville, Hibbert, etc are fairly limited.
But we have the core of a decent young-ish side. We have Howard, still young for a keeper, Yobo, Lescott, Jags, Baines at the back. Arteta, hopefully Pienaar, Cahill in the middle and AJ and the Yak up front. Plus decentish squad players in Hibbert, Vaughan (if the lad can stay fit), Ossie, Valente.
The problem this season, is that the players have run out of steam, they were running on adrenaline and the loss in the UEFA seemed to be the catalyst for the downfall. If Moyes can add 3 first XI players (right back, commanding central midfielder and winger/striker) without losing anyone except Gravesen, we’re on to a decent squad.
Remember that we must have played about 15 more games than last season, with only a slightly bigger squad.
27 Posted 18/04/2008 at 10:33:33
28 Posted 18/04/2008 at 10:32:40
Have to totally disagree with you. Carsley is very average in 4-5-1 however in 4-4-2 he is awful. Last night he was shocking. Just watch next time we play when our centre half has the ball. Does Carsley come and demand the ball ? Does he turn and go by players driving the team on ? Does he go about the pitch setting the tempo ? If you can answer yes to any of these then i’ll hold my hands up.
The trouble is we have become used to the fact that ocassionaly he gets a decent block in but thats all he does. The centre of the park is the Engine room and thats where games against the top sides are won and lost. Whenever we are up against a midfield with legs then we struggle.
If we are to improve and challenge for fourth again this is the area more than any other that we need to invest in. So that’s why Carsley and Neville need to be removed from that central midfield area.
29 Posted 18/04/2008 at 10:48:12
30 Posted 18/04/2008 at 10:51:50
Me? I’m off to Marine next season-at least Phil Neville dont play for them.Yet.
31 Posted 18/04/2008 at 11:20:11
32 Posted 18/04/2008 at 11:12:14
In answer to the question ? No,I wouldn?t trust him with £30M ? and he?s never likely to manage a club that will. Don?t think Mourinho, think Gordon Lee. This is Everton we?re talking about!
33 Posted 18/04/2008 at 11:28:02
34 Posted 18/04/2008 at 11:21:00
35 Posted 18/04/2008 at 11:34:45
36 Posted 18/04/2008 at 12:04:37
37 Posted 18/04/2008 at 12:00:51
38 Posted 18/04/2008 at 11:53:30
39 Posted 18/04/2008 at 12:00:07
But for the run of injuries fifth was a cert and fourth was there for the taking. But look at what we are up against: Chelsea have no Drogba, in comes Anelka ? that's just one example all the teams above us have the same options. Now look at ours midfield injury we have to draft in Neville put him along side Carsley (who I think does a good job breaking up opposition attacks) and we have a midfield partnership that cannot pass a ball more than a couple of yards.
Until we can have strength in depth no matter who is Manager we will struggle when forced to bring in squad players.
40 Posted 18/04/2008 at 12:31:07
Not bad eh?
41 Posted 18/04/2008 at 12:53:40
42 Posted 18/04/2008 at 12:47:47
2 points people keep making:
1) Dire football / Hoofball
2) Lack of plan b
Yep both are valid points, but the problem is we haven’t got the money for 11 world class players, let alone subs to match. We have no plan B as we have no decent players to bring on to change a game... not Moyes’ fault. Yeah the football is poor, but its effective (most of the time) and gets results. Until we can splash out £26million on one player its going to be this way. Over 5 years Moyes has brought in some good football players, give him another 5 and i’d imagine we’ll see much more attractive play. Problem is were an impatient bunch and want results now... well short of a sugar daddy wishing to pump endless millions in to the club this isn’t going to happen, and so slowly but surely Moyes will buy 1 world class player a year. We’ll build slowly and make slow progress, but if thats what it takes then so be it. If we lost Moyes we’d be screwed! A new manager would want to make whole sale changes and we’d be backt o square one. Would I trust Moyes with £30mill? I’d trust him with double that! I think people want sucess too quick. I’d rather we had Moyes for another 5 years and continued to slowly improve the 1st team and squad.
43 Posted 18/04/2008 at 13:18:15
44 Posted 18/04/2008 at 13:19:17
Manny started to have a real influence in the second half last night and has started to justify his permanent signing. I really feel that when he regains form and fitness he could be an excellent player. Pienaar was dangerous for us last night until he effectively succumbed to niggling injury last night. Overall adding players of the calibre Moyes has signed whilst getting AvdM and Tommy G off the wage bill (and, although he has played excellently for us, Valente) will allow us funds for these new players.
45 Posted 18/04/2008 at 13:11:16
We do not have the finance available though. Not as big a brand as RS, Utd and Arsenal. Not the money of Abramovich.
So, either new owner(s) or more of the same.
46 Posted 18/04/2008 at 13:24:16
Oh, and a special word for Jagz. OK, like Hibbo he’s not got the best distribution in the world, but the ability to throw himself in the way of anything that comes at us has been fantastic.
47 Posted 18/04/2008 at 13:38:57
48 Posted 18/04/2008 at 14:17:18
49 Posted 18/04/2008 at 14:28:10
50 Posted 18/04/2008 at 14:53:50
One of Moyes greatest strengths is is honesty and admitting to mistakes he makes too. He also doesn’t complain about the injuries like other managers, he just gets on with it. Makes me sick going on about how Chelsea miss Drogba and Lampard. Compare that with us missing Cahill, Arteta, Ossie and Vaughany!!!
Anyway, more importantly, rather than debating whethere we’d trust Moyes with a £30m transfer kitty, the burning question is:-
WOULD YOU TRUST BENITEZ WITH YOUR PAELLA ORDER?
51 Posted 18/04/2008 at 14:55:23
When we’ve had a fit squad this season the hoofball pretty much stopped. During the middle of the season we were playing good to watch, passing along the floor, attacking football. Some people on here were saying we weren’t far off Arsenal’s playing style at the time. Those comments were over the top, but when Moyes’ team has been available and fit we’ve looked well worth our current 5th place. This was down to Moyes, his signings, his tactics AND the players playing to their ability in their best positions.
Hopefully Pienaar will be his latest signing. All the "reasons" people keep coming up with on here and calling Moyes "Dithering Dave" etc are ridiculous. We fans have no idea what happens behind the scenes. You can pretty much put your house on Moyes wanting to get Pienaar signed asap. It’s not all up to him though.
He should also, in my view, be using some of whatever transfer kitty he’s given to attempt to sign Fernandes. That’s obviously a controversial opinion on here, but anyone can see the ability he has. Yes, he was inconsistent and did loose the ball a fair bit in the first half, I’m not blind! but it was mainly down to being surrounded by three Chelsea shirts each time he got the ball and having barely anyone move into space for him to release a pass. He was one of the only players using the ball effectively at times. He was always looking to be positive and on more than 1 occaision he wriggled his way past those 3 Chelsea shirts. I also think he?s desperate to impress (whether that be Everton or anyone else watching) and he?s just overdoing it at times. Our best bits of play last night seemed to start when he’d been moved into the middle. He was coming deep to take the ball off the back four and looking forward to create something positive and on the ground. This is something Carlsey and Neville simply aren’t able to do. I’m not slating them, they just don’t have that part to their game and you can?t teach that natural footballing ability and vision. If we can sign him and Moyes can help him develop the defensive side of his game, which can be worked on, then Carsley will be able to take a well deserved break and warm the bench every so often.
52 Posted 18/04/2008 at 14:54:00
53 Posted 18/04/2008 at 15:01:56
54 Posted 18/04/2008 at 15:44:38
With money spent in the right area we’ll be a force to be reckoned with next season
55 Posted 18/04/2008 at 15:49:54
56 Posted 18/04/2008 at 15:17:56
Reina £6mil Almunia £0
Cole £5+Gallas (value about 10m)
Evra 7mil, Clichy 1mil, Aurelio £0
HIBBO £0, Ferreira 12mil, Sagna 7mil, Finnan 4mil, Brown £0
LESCOTT £5mil, Ferdinand £30mil, Carvalho 17mil, Gallas p/exc(10mil), Agger £6mil
YOBO £5mil, Vidic £8mil, Skrtl £6.5mil, Terry £0, Toure £2m
ARTETA £2.2mil, Wright-phillips £21mil, Ronaldo £12.5mil, Hleb £12mil, Benayoun £6mil
PIENAAR £2.5mil, Cole £6.6mil, Nani £12mil, Rosiky £7mil, Gerrard £0
CARSLEY £1.6mil, HARGREAVES £17mil, ESSIEN £24mil, Fabregas £1mil, Mascherano £17mil
NEVILLE £3.5mil, Carrick £18mil, Alonso £12mil, Mikel £12mil, Flamini £2mil
CAHILL £1.5mil, Lampard £10mil, van Persie 2.5mil, Tevez £30mil, Kuyt £10mil
YAKUBU £12mil, Rooney £27mil, Adebayor £8mil, Torres £24mil, Drogba £24mil
Wessels £0, Jagielka £4, Grav £0, Rodwell £0, Vaughan £0, Anichebe £0, Johnson £8.6, Ossie £0, Manny £0, Valente £1.5,
Cuducini £0, Bridge £6, Baletti £2, Alex £5, Ben Haim £0, Ballack £0, Malouda £15, Makelele £14, Anelka £15, Kalou £8, Sidwell £0, Shevchenko £30 +about 30million worth of youth players e.g. Sahar, Sinclair, Di
Kuszczac £2.5, O’Shea 0, Silvestre £3.5, Anderson £17, Park £4.5, Scholes 0, Giggs 0, Saha £12.5
Hyppia £2.5, Arbeloa £2.5, Carra 0, Risse 4mil, Lucas £8, Pennant £7, Kewell £5, Crouch 7mil, Babel £12 + about 30mil on youth players
Lehmann £2, Senderos £1, Denilson £1-2, Walcott £10, Diaby £2.5, Gilberto 4mil, Eduardo £7, Bendtner 0, Eboue 0, Song £1 + 30+ on youth players
Basically, for everton to be near these 4 teams, when the gulf in spending is huge, is an achievement.
Would I trust Moyes with £30miilion, YES of course, with that he may sign a right-back, defensive mid, center mid and supporting striker. BUT, what would you expect.
IF Moyes gets £30mil will we break into top-4 possibly, but if he gets £30mil and next season we finish 5-6th people will think of it as a failure.
When you compare us to the rest of the top-4, they lose a top-class player through injury and replace him with another top-class player. Even if we sign the much needed centre mids so what, if one gets injured we’ll still have much inferior teams to them. To be honest, the only way we will break into top-4 (without £300mil) will be at a constant slow pace, improving slightly each season, maybe in 5-6 seasons we might achieve 4,3,2nd regular but it will be slow, 3-4signings in one summer will not achieve this. I support Moyes and think he knows this, it does not happen over night and is a long drawn out process, however I doubt many fans are patient enough for that and what started the season as wishful thinking has now become expected. 1 victory out of the 2 remaining home games secure 5th in reality. We will achieve this, but remember next season will be a battle more likely for 5th again rather than 4th.
57 Posted 18/04/2008 at 15:26:17
With whom should we replace Moyes? Should we select one of the non-Sky 4 managers whom, despite it being so easy to set up against us, have failed to do any better than Moyes over the past few years? For it being so easy to beat us it?s a surprise we have the best record of the non-Sky 4 over the past few years.
You?re all INSANE who want ride of Moyes. NOBODY has done better than him with similar resources. In fact, many with MORE resources have done worse than him. Am I happy with how the team is playing right now? No. We have our three best midfielders out injured -- unless Moyes knee-capped them it isn?t his fault.
Would I trust him with £30 million? WHO HAS A BETTER RECORD (non Sky-4) buying players over the past few years? Name me one manager who has done better and we can hire him.
58 Posted 18/04/2008 at 17:37:17
59 Posted 18/04/2008 at 19:43:59
If these players aren’t removed from the starting eleven next season, we have no chance of progressing whoever he buys because our ball retention, passing and mobility will not have improved one iota.
As I stated before, it’s not his buying record that worries me.