We at Everton have long and unwholesome history of picking out certain ones of our own for very vocal criticism (and we shouldn't necessarily be proud of this practice). It is a tradition that stretches way back to at least... erm... Earl Barrett.
One thing seems evident. This booing and barracking from the stands most certainly transmits itself to the players concerned. This season's whipping boys seem to have been McFadden, Hibbert and most recently Pip Chuckle himself (a man who has long suffered abuse from rival fans).
As a matter of interest, I was wondering when was the last time that such vitriol was consistenty handed out to a team captain. Thinking back through skippers of recent seasons, the likes of Campbell, Watson (and even Horne!) were certainly of 'limited' ability in our eyes but still, quite unreservedly, admired.
Lee Aitch, Posted 20/04/2008 at 20:43:26
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It's all down to personal perceptions of course. That's mine; I think he is an awful player and as Captian of Everton FC, I want a player I can respect. Campbell, Watson, Horne, Weir ... players of limited ability but still worthy of that respect. For me, Neville just does not cut it.
1 Posted 20/04/2008 at 21:15:57
Every week I pray he plays at right back as he is less of a hindrance and as for being skipper he just does not command the respect needed for the job. Over the last few games, when we needed a captain to shout and lead from the front, he was not up to the job. This is not a go at him; by nature you need aggression to do the job and Phil has not got it.
But no matter what I say on here I have not nor would I ever get on a player's back as no one improves with the weight of the fans on their back. I will continue to voice encouragement to Phil as well as the rest of the team as I go to support my team through good and bad. I will always do.
2 Posted 20/04/2008 at 21:34:11
3 Posted 20/04/2008 at 21:46:53
4 Posted 20/04/2008 at 21:49:55
5 Posted 20/04/2008 at 21:57:01
6 Posted 20/04/2008 at 22:00:16
7 Posted 20/04/2008 at 22:15:45
He should not even be in the team for pity's sake.
8 Posted 20/04/2008 at 22:19:09
Some of the stick he takes is over the top though, it wasnt his fault he was on the left wing trying to put in a cross in the last minute - the manager put him there.
His passing is poor though, but no one was putting himself about, flying into tackles like the other night (apart from Jagielka!!).
9 Posted 20/04/2008 at 22:22:19
10 Posted 20/04/2008 at 22:24:27
I’ve said before that if we kept Neville at right back in a decent team (ie not one with Hibbert in it and Carsley and Neville as the midfield) we’ll see a good player. Shunting him around makes him look bad and erodes his confidence. Playing as a holding midfielder when your passing options are Giggs, Scholes, Beckham and whoever United had up front at the time is decidedly different to playing alongside Carsley in a makeshift line-up.
11 Posted 20/04/2008 at 22:30:02
Sign Bullard and give him the armband anyone?
12 Posted 20/04/2008 at 22:38:43
13 Posted 20/04/2008 at 22:48:03
I don?t rate Hibbert any higher than Neville but if you gave him a run at right back with Phil Neville out the team I?m sure he?d do the exact same job. Having players like Arteta, Osman, Pienaar and Fernandes in front of him would mean he wouldn?t have to get forward as much and could concentrate on his defensive duties. That's just my opinion anyway.
And whilst he does a job for the team that doesn?t mean he hasn?t had a poor season. His individual performances this season have been poor to average. I actually thought he had a decent season at right back last year but this season he?s gone downhill. At right back or in midfield he?s been poor.
People continually try and make excuses though. His passing is poor and predictable. People also make the excuse that he never hides and he?s always on the ball. Stats do back up that he is on the ball a lot. Yes, but that's only because we have a right handed goalie whose preferred throw is obviously going to be to his right hand side. If Howard was left handed then the likes of Baines and Lescott would be on the ball the most.
I don?t want us to get rid of Phil Neville. He?s a decent bloke and he?d be a good squad player but he shouldn?t be a starter week in week out. The likes of Hibbert, Lescott, Yakubu, Osman, Jagielka, Yobo, Baines, Johnson and Carsley have all been dropped this season yet Neville seems to have a golden boy like status which pisses me and a lot of Evertonians off. Keep him but keep him as a squad player and I?ll be happy.
Even after his little hissy fit at Anfield Moyes said nothing. Imagine if that was Yakubu, Fernandes or Anichebe. They probably wouldn't play for us again.
14 Posted 20/04/2008 at 23:13:21
15 Posted 20/04/2008 at 23:24:55
He should not even be in the team for pities sake." Turn that on its head Phil Neville shouldn’t be in the team, Jagielka deserves to be in the team ahead of Neville purely on merit. Jags or Cahill for captain unless someone else is brought in.
16 Posted 21/04/2008 at 00:22:14
The problem does not lie with Neville it lies with the Manager who still believes that Neville can operate all over the place. This is not the case.
He is a right back. Full stop.
17 Posted 21/04/2008 at 00:29:43
18 Posted 21/04/2008 at 00:37:25
Behind the scenes I believe he is respected by the team for this. He is a committed player who will get stuck in, and play anywhere without any fuss. He?s vocal, always shouting instructions on the pitch, and I think anyone who doesn?t respect this is doing him a disservice.
Criticise his passing by all means, his tackling etc, but he is a good captain.
19 Posted 21/04/2008 at 00:50:09
He certainly doesn?t appear to bring great leadership on the field; off it, I have no idea.
But the surging runs and inspiration that flows from great captains is missing, and although Lescott is perhaps the best choice, I still feel we lack that steely game changing character that a captain brings......
20 Posted 21/04/2008 at 03:12:18
21 Posted 21/04/2008 at 04:01:10
22 Posted 21/04/2008 at 03:53:18
Neville's inability to pass a ball,
can't put in a decent cross,
his constant turnovers,
giving away senseless frees at our backline,
his lack of authority esp being our captain,
can't shoot if his life depended on it,
his useless long throws that go no-where,
putting our defense under pressure by playing the ball back when in possession,
slicing his long-range passes down the line that more often than not end up out,
clueless when he has possession of the ball
etc etc etc etc etc
is just absurd.
Yes, I blame DM for signing him, but I don't blame DM for Neville's inept performances on the field. The guy is just shite!
23 Posted 21/04/2008 at 08:13:37
Too much talk and not enough action springs to mind, as for him at right back, there have been many times this season when i’ve seen Lescott/Jags & Yobo all make crucial inteventions to stop goals being conceeded, can’t remember to many from Pip.
Definately agree with Cahill/Lescott as captains, and in that order when Cahill is availbable.
24 Posted 21/04/2008 at 09:07:59
The only problem with Pip as captain is he shouldn’t be in the team to begin with. I would rather have Hibbert at RB anyday, and any combination of any other players besides Neville in midfield.
If Cahill can sort out his maddening injury issues, he would definitely be the man for the job.
25 Posted 21/04/2008 at 10:30:44
Cahill for me would be the ideal captain, because Moyes has built a playing style reliant on him. The 4-1-3-1-1 with Yakubu up top produced some of the best football I have seen at Goodison for many a year, and the lynch pin in this formation is Cahill.
Its not just the results that improve with him in the side, its the style of play and the attitude of the players towards getting forward.
Maybe the manager feels that without cahill we need to play a more cautious game?
26 Posted 21/04/2008 at 10:42:29
27 Posted 21/04/2008 at 10:58:18
Lescott for the arm-band. No brainer.
Would have liked it to have been Yobo several years ago (next year will be his SEVENTH season with us!!!) but he’s just too meek for such a role.
Lescott has the stature, though to be the man (expect him - as a former Holte Ender, btw - to be extra, extra "foired-oop" on Sunday!)
28 Posted 21/04/2008 at 11:28:30
But Lescott, Cahill, Yobo or Arteta.
I think Captaincy is what Arteta may need to lift his game!
29 Posted 21/04/2008 at 11:59:43
30 Posted 21/04/2008 at 12:33:17
His current absence is significant in our present inability to tie up fifth.
31 Posted 21/04/2008 at 13:29:37
The question is will Cahill be a starter next season or will we go for 4-4-2? If we buy two centre midfielders then it could be the case of Cahill being a squad player.
Lescott for me anyway. Consistent, drives us forward and turns up in the big games. He’s more vocal than people think. He the one always giving instructions and especially when he plays centrally.
32 Posted 21/04/2008 at 15:32:09
33 Posted 21/04/2008 at 20:00:39
Quote, "What you have to remember is that we don?t see the lads behind the scenes or in the dressing room. We can only go on what we see on the pitch." Unquote
Pure quality that son. Yes we can only go on what we see on the pitch. Isn’t that where judgements are made? Personnally, I don’t give a flying fuck if Earl Barrett, Scouse Thomsen, Brett Angell, John Spencer and Pip were like Ronaldho at Bellefield/Finch Farm!
Where it really matters each one of them just didn’t cut i and would probably make it into most blues’ top 10 of all time shit players.
I remember HK speaking at a Sportsmans once and he said that Preki was one of the best players he ever saw training. Really Howard? If he wasn’t one of the worst players I ever saw ’when it mattered’ then I don’t know the difference between Kaka and Carsley...
34 Posted 21/04/2008 at 22:18:18
I can not believe anyone would say that, its staggering.
I wouldn’t want Hibbert to be my team’s right back in The Championship. And people are talking about us going to ’the next level’?