ToffeeWeb - Season 2007-08

The Mail Bag

Battle of the Managers

The media in these parts is billing Sunday`s game as a battle between two of` "the brightest young managers in the game" and whilst you could argue that the word `young` can hardly be applied to a 50+ manager with over 20 years experience in the role, I sort of see what they`re getting at!

I suspect it`s true to say that for many Evertonians, Martin O`Neill would be a popular choice as successor to David Moyes if, perish the thought, our hero moved on... so how do their records compare?

I don`t keep records of my own so I went to soccerbase.com and found the following figures for the two as Premier status managers:-

Moyes (Everton only): P 280 W 117 L 99 D 64 O`Neill (Leicester City & Villa): P 303 W 115 L 93 D 95 Thus Moyes has a winning percentage of 41.8 against O`Neill`s 39.8 but loses 35.4 of his games to the Irishman`s 30.7.On drawn matches,the two are a distance apart with O`Neill`s sides tieing 31.4 against Moyes's 22.9.

Of course the Villa man has a wealth of managerial experience going back to his start with Grantham Town in 1986 whilst Moyes has only just celebrated 10 years since he took the reins at PNE, but in Premier League football they are very much on the same wavelength in win percentages.

So will O`Neill`s slightly more adventurous approach triumph over our man`s natural caution? Seeing film of last Saturday`s walloping of Birmingham City, I feared the worst but then I thought, hell that was bloody Birmingham, Everton will be an entirely different matter. I hope...
Alan Woodhead, Birmingham Posted 21/04/2008 at 14:01:36

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Brian Waring
1 Posted 21/04/2008 at 20:33:35

Alan, that was the same "bloody Birmingham" Who we struggled with to get a draw!

Roy Coyne
2 Posted 21/04/2008 at 20:38:08

Brian we can beat Villa. Up to a couple of games ago we would be expecting to win. If we get a couple of midfielders back, I'm confident. I also think we will beat the barcodes... Arsenal is a different matter.

Joe McMahon
3 Posted 21/04/2008 at 20:40:57

Alan - we also struggled to beat Derby 1 - 0 at home, they beat them 6 - 0 away!

Kenada Bloomington
4 Posted 21/04/2008 at 21:17:08

Vital 3 points for us. Nothing else will do IMO

Alan Reddish
5 Posted 21/04/2008 at 21:19:09

Which means Villa would also hammer Man Utd as they too only scraped a 1 - 0 win against the mighty Derby.

Martin Cutler
6 Posted 21/04/2008 at 21:12:59

Well, as much as I hate to say it I don?t think there?s any comparison whatsoever between O?Neill and Moyes.........you?re forgetting or ignoring (not sure why) O?Neill?s time at Celtic....his record there alone takes some beating.....and just because it was in Scotland and not the Premier League is no reason to sweep it one side. He?s got tons of experience in Europe with Celtic....that most definiitely counts in his favour.
I would say that O?Neill is where Moyes will be in a few years time (preferably with Everton and some trophies on the shelf) but right now of the two Moyes would come 2nd-best.
Yes, O?Neill has had more money to spend at Villa (I don?t know how the amounts compare) but he?s transformed a team from what it was into definite European contenders very quickly.

By the way, I?m saying this more in support of O?Neill than attempting to knock Moyes.

Moyes?s time will come and if he only had some money to spend it?ll come quickly me thinks!

In the meantime the current stats don?t bear thinking about. Comparing the results against Brum and Derby it just boggles the mind what could happen next Sunday.

Or we could just actually turn up and play and beat them 3-0!

Either way, COYB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dick Fearon
7 Posted 21/04/2008 at 23:02:20

Martin C. It is a mistake to quote O’neils
north of the border experience for the simple reason that only two clubs are in it with any sort of chance.
Question: What two clubs will share the Scots premiership in each of the next 50 to 100 years?
Speaks for itself eh’.

As for next weeks game, Villa’s recent results came by throwing caution to the winds and going all out on the attack.
That is something David Moyes in his wildest dreams would never do.
Davids first thoughts are to hold what we’ve got and maybe nick a decider.
Only when our backs are to the wall does he go for it. Usually by then its too late.
A good example was the two Fiorentina games. Trying to hold the line In the first came horribly unstuck.
In the second game he had no option but to come out with all guns firing and it almost succeeded.
Fiorentina tried to hold what they had and nearly came unstuck.

Against Villa, if Moyes goes for it from the start we could be in for a breathtaking match. On the other hand, if he is true to form it will be a pack the midfield dreary defensive experience.

Martin Cutler
8 Posted 22/04/2008 at 00:06:20

Dick F....I disagree. He got to the Uefa Cup Final with Celtic and even if his only rival was Rangers (which is a totally ridiculous thing to say because that is like saying we would beat Derby and Birmingham and Fulham etc every time we play them....... er, we don?t do we?).

Plus I was making the comment that all of that experience with Celtic (battling Rangers the only other team in Scotland apparently) and all that European experience every year -- goes towards the total experience that O?Neill has and Moyes doesn?t......or in Moyes case has only really just begun to experience.

Ray Roche
9 Posted 22/04/2008 at 07:14:09

Let?s just put Villas recent form into perspective. Yes, they have had three good results against relegation-threatened (or relegated) teams and we can?t knock them for that. You can only beat what?s in front of you and they did that really well. However, the ten games before that saw them win only two, against, I think, a (then) poor Newcastle and Reading. Their last game before their "recent great form" saw them humbled at home to Utd. Villa are not unbeatable. They will be confident and they know our form has dipped but we should be the best team they?ve played since March.

Seb St Clare
10 Posted 22/04/2008 at 08:05:01

Moyes is in a different class to O?Neill tactically. I lived in Leicester through much of the latter?s time there and the natives always complained that his only tactic was to throw Marshal or Elliott up front and ?go for it?! Moyes is a master of defensive strategies and will have too much up top to fall for the sort of ?gung-ho ?approach O?Neill has instilled in Villa. Look for us to nick it 1-0. Lescott to score!

George Dowty
11 Posted 22/04/2008 at 08:21:05

Seb; I have never seen O?Neill as a ?gung-ho?manager, I think most Evertonians would welcome a more adventurous approach from Moyes, anyway! As far O?Neill?s record at Leicester is concerned he got the absolute best out of some pretty average players(Marshal!!) and never waited till the 70th minute to change things round!

Brian Waring
12 Posted 22/04/2008 at 08:30:25

Seb, FFS man, I?ve just nearly choked on my coffee! "Moyes is in a different class to O?Neill tactically " I?m afraid Moyes and tactics don?t go together. When it come?s to them, Moyes is clueless.

Carl Wright
13 Posted 22/04/2008 at 09:22:28

Sorry but its O?Neil for me, in terms of tactics, motivavtion, personality and experience.

In my heart I hope it's 3 points on Sunday but my head's saying we?re in for a hiding. Villa in form, we?re way out of form. It's going to take something special and I don't think we have it in us at this stage of the season.

Vic Wilmington
14 Posted 22/04/2008 at 09:47:23

I?d swop managers with Villa any day. Sure Moyes has done well with us but O?Neill is different class. Great enthusiast, shrewd tactician, occasional gambler and a lovely tongue in cheek way with fans and press. Just hope Dour Davey proves me wrong on Sunday!

Chris Fisher
15 Posted 22/04/2008 at 11:10:00

All this talk of "Oh they beat Derby and Birmingham by a mile and we only managed a 1-0 win and a 1-1 draw" is bollocks. None of them results matter! Just cos they lost 1-0 at home to Sunderland and we won 7-1 at home to Sunderland does that mean were going to batter Villa then?? No!!

How ridiculous to suggest that because one team can beat anouther team by more goals than we managed to beat them by, that means they?ll beat us because of that!! It?ll be a totally different game on Sunday, difficult but I reckon a 2-0 win for us!

Moyes is a brilliant manager and at the end of the day we?re sitting in 5th with our destiny in our hands and Villa quite simply are not so that tells me who I'd rather have as our manager. The only difference at the moment is Villa have a bit more left in the tank cos they haven't had to play quite as many games as us because they weren't good enough to qualify for Europe last season ? just like they won't be this season.

Dan Johnson
16 Posted 22/04/2008 at 11:47:45

Ok I think this will happen.

Villa (D)
Arsenal (L)
Newcastle (W)

Thats 4 points from six?
Will it be enough? I think Villa may well just pip us.

Stevie Kay
17 Posted 22/04/2008 at 12:08:42

Chris, Finally someone talking some sense. This is a one-off game, make or break. Our boys will be up for it. Win and were as good as in Europe. We just need a little faith.

Jonathan Tasker
18 Posted 22/04/2008 at 13:04:25

Try as I can to be positive about this match, I can’t! Without Cahill, our results lately have been rubbish. You have only to compare our result and performance against BCFC with Villa’s; I think we are in for a hiding and am going 3-1 to Villa. The midfield is woeful and Yakubu looks a spent force.And , honestly, I think it means more to the fans than to the players.

Joe McMahon
19 Posted 22/04/2008 at 13:26:16

Chris Fisher - you make a point but, it’s current form that maters. On this form would we beat Sunderland 7-1? We aslo lost at home to Oldham.

No on this current form, we have lost to Fulham, drew with West Ham, Birmingham & narrowly beaton Derby. Everton have taken 4 points from the last possible 18. Not exactly convincing, and were awfull in ALL 6 matches.

For the record Everton also beat Sunderland 1 - 0 with the goal from AJ’s elbow, and an Everton side that finished 4th was beaton 7-0 by Arsenal in the same season.

chris fisher
20 Posted 22/04/2008 at 13:49:10

for the record aston villa havent beat sunderland in either of their games this season and we’ve won both! but like i said it really doesnt matter whos beaten who, it will make no difference to this match its tottaly different against derby and brum they could afford to ’gung-ho’ they cant against us so expect a tight game could be either really exciting or really boring either way all that matters for now is we win, granted there playing a bit better than us at the moment but we’re not 5th for no reason we’ve earnt it and i just dont see us letting it go, you just cant compare derby and brum to everton! we will win and if aj wants to score anouther one off his elbow, arse, eye hes more than welcome!!

Martin Thompson
21 Posted 22/04/2008 at 08:59:32

One of my workmates has just said`If we lose on Sunday it will be the end of the world for me!`How bloody daft can you get? It`s just one game at the end of a cracking season which may or may not result in us having another go in Europe. I defy any one of us to say that this isn`t the most enjoyable season we`ve had since Sky invented football.A great run in the Carling Cup, new experiences in the Uefa Cup and a Premier League season that`s going right to the wire.

Yes, the unbelievable progress we`ve made under Moyes has raised our expectations ?and ain`t that a good thing ? but there are 16 clubs in the Prem whose followers would change places with us tomorrow. Sunday IS important but a defeat would not be a tragedy whilst a draw would prolong the excitement even further! COYB!

Erik Dols
22 Posted 23/04/2008 at 07:46:07

15, Martin, 15 ;-)