The Mail Bag
Legal Action?
Comments (29)
This has been on my mind for months now, or pretty much the whole season, but it's just now coming out now that 5th place looks unlikely.
Is there any way that Everton could bring a lawsuit to the FA or the Premier League to be awarded back lost points or money? Obviously we have been shafted time and time again this season, and an independent group would almost definitely be on our side.
I know it seems petty, and if we do finish in 6th it would just seem like we're sore losers, but we have had an excellent season despite often playing against 12 men and a couple of bad results have put it in jeopardy when in reality we should be in 4th place (rightresult.net) and I don't want to see it go to waste.
Anyway, is this a possibility? I'm sure Kenwright doesn't have the stones to do it, but if he grew a pair would we win?
Jimmy Crack, Posted 21/04/2008 at 23:18:16
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Martin Cutler
2 Posted 22/04/2008 at 05:14:56
2 Posted 22/04/2008 at 05:14:56
I don?t think any legal action would stand a chance, plus even if it did I?m sure it would drag on and on.
I think EFC as a club would come out of it in a bad light (basically like sore losers)....... I mean bad ref calls, as much as we hate them because they frigging well do happen to us, are part and parcel of the game.... always have, no doubt always will in the future. Even technology I?m sure would never be 100%.
That said, I have a problem with "rightresult.net?. It?s very interesting to look at it, backs up a lot of the things we think about some of our games and so on; however, we all know that if a goal was allowed that was previously denied........the remainder of the match would obviously be affected (unless it was in the dying seconds) so with RightResult and/or technology and/or better refs......who?s to say that the end result, albeit a different scoreline, might not be the same?
I think EFC as a club would come out of it in a bad light (basically like sore losers)....... I mean bad ref calls, as much as we hate them because they frigging well do happen to us, are part and parcel of the game.... always have, no doubt always will in the future. Even technology I?m sure would never be 100%.
That said, I have a problem with "rightresult.net?. It?s very interesting to look at it, backs up a lot of the things we think about some of our games and so on; however, we all know that if a goal was allowed that was previously denied........the remainder of the match would obviously be affected (unless it was in the dying seconds) so with RightResult and/or technology and/or better refs......who?s to say that the end result, albeit a different scoreline, might not be the same?
We?ll never know is the obvious answer.........all RightResult does for us is prove in specific incidents that an offside was not offside or a ball DID cross the line etc., etc....it doesn?t speak for how the other team would react in the remainder of the game.............in fact no doubt the nay-sayers on here would say:
"Oh, we got a goal we wouldn?t have got otherwise.....oh, jeez Moyes is now going to sit back and defend and we?re screwed anyway!"
Jason Lam
3 Posted 22/04/2008 at 06:49:05
3 Posted 22/04/2008 at 06:49:05
Oh dear, down to the crumbs are we?
Tony Rice
4 Posted 22/04/2008 at 06:46:23
4 Posted 22/04/2008 at 06:46:23
Are you serious! Quit whining! You should complain about us not gettting results against shit teams.Boo Hoo !
If we played the last month like we cared we?d be 4th!!!!!
If we played the last month like we cared we?d be 4th!!!!!
Erik Dols
5 Posted 22/04/2008 at 07:10:49
5 Posted 22/04/2008 at 07:10:49
Although we were fucked by the ref on numerous occasions this season, I don’t believe in law suits to get the result you want.
One of the reasons why I don’t take the Italian Serie A serious is that after the season is done, three or four clubs file a law suit for one reason or another and the league table is changed comprehensively by that. It is devastating for the thrustworthyness of a league to have such things. Would another club file such a law suit, I would think they were a bunch of losers.
One of the reasons why I don’t take the Italian Serie A serious is that after the season is done, three or four clubs file a law suit for one reason or another and the league table is changed comprehensively by that. It is devastating for the thrustworthyness of a league to have such things. Would another club file such a law suit, I would think they were a bunch of losers.
Dave Whitwell
6 Posted 22/04/2008 at 08:02:21
6 Posted 22/04/2008 at 08:02:21
What do you mean now that 5th looks unlikely, looking at the league table we are 3 points ahead of Villa with 3 games to go, surely we are in pole position?
Jimmy Crack
7 Posted 22/04/2008 at 08:00:51
7 Posted 22/04/2008 at 08:00:51
Tony and Erik,
Of course I agree completely with you. Our teams are too easily shaken after important defeats, dropping ’guaranteed’ points and freezing up against the Big 3. And I am one of the few Americans who aren’t lawyer-happy. I totally admire Moyes’ professionalism concerning referee performances.
But we all have our breaking points.
I’m sure if an independent panel gathered evidence of all the penalties and goals we’ve been denied, as compared to other clubs, we would be deserving of points and / or money.
Of course I agree completely with you. Our teams are too easily shaken after important defeats, dropping ’guaranteed’ points and freezing up against the Big 3. And I am one of the few Americans who aren’t lawyer-happy. I totally admire Moyes’ professionalism concerning referee performances.
But we all have our breaking points.
I’m sure if an independent panel gathered evidence of all the penalties and goals we’ve been denied, as compared to other clubs, we would be deserving of points and / or money.
Albert Dock
8 Posted 22/04/2008 at 08:06:05
8 Posted 22/04/2008 at 08:06:05
Why stop there? After taking on the FA, the Premiership, Aston Villa, every bookies in the land and UEFA, we might consider other opponents. ZanuPF, the met office and the royal family come to mind.
Sorry Jimmy on crack but you?ll have to do better than this. Go and have a nice lie down.
Sorry Jimmy on crack but you?ll have to do better than this. Go and have a nice lie down.
Jimmy Crack
9 Posted 22/04/2008 at 08:08:29
9 Posted 22/04/2008 at 08:08:29
Dave:
Villa’s Last 3 Games:
5-1 Win over Birmingham
0-6 Win over Derby
4-0 Win over Bolton
Everton’s last 3 games:
-0-1 Loss to Chelsea
1-1 Draw with Birmingham
1-0 Win over Derby
Everton’s Next 3 Games:
Home to Villa
Away to Arsenal
Home to Newcastle
(All of whom are in good form)
Villa’s Next 3 Games:
Away to Everton
Home to Wigan
Away to West Ham
In my opinion, they have a much easier run-in, although it could all come down to Saturday’s game
Villa’s Last 3 Games:
5-1 Win over Birmingham
0-6 Win over Derby
4-0 Win over Bolton
Everton’s last 3 games:
-0-1 Loss to Chelsea
1-1 Draw with Birmingham
1-0 Win over Derby
Everton’s Next 3 Games:
Home to Villa
Away to Arsenal
Home to Newcastle
(All of whom are in good form)
Villa’s Next 3 Games:
Away to Everton
Home to Wigan
Away to West Ham
In my opinion, they have a much easier run-in, although it could all come down to Saturday’s game
Alan White
10 Posted 22/04/2008 at 08:16:23
10 Posted 22/04/2008 at 08:16:23
How bloody pathetic! Grow up will ya? Every club in the land thinks it?s been robbed by referees ? do you really believe results should be determined by m?learned freinds?
Dave Whitwell
11 Posted 22/04/2008 at 08:39:15
11 Posted 22/04/2008 at 08:39:15
Jimmy Crack,
I understand where your coming from, but most clubs in the top half can boast a great run of 3 games at some point. The point is its not about 3 games but the whole season, Villa have won only 6 of 17 away games this season and have to go to Upton Park on the last day, as well as us on Sunday, add to that, their last home game is against a side who may well need another win to secure safety and there run in is by no means easy.
Simple question would you rather be in our position or theirs?
I understand where your coming from, but most clubs in the top half can boast a great run of 3 games at some point. The point is its not about 3 games but the whole season, Villa have won only 6 of 17 away games this season and have to go to Upton Park on the last day, as well as us on Sunday, add to that, their last home game is against a side who may well need another win to secure safety and there run in is by no means easy.
Simple question would you rather be in our position or theirs?
Tony Williams
12 Posted 22/04/2008 at 08:49:25
12 Posted 22/04/2008 at 08:49:25
JImmy, I feel your pain, however, the Americanized way of dealing with blame, ie try and pass it on to someone else, will not work here.
Sure we have been shafted by the refs on occassion and the bollocks about it evening out over the season seems untrue too, apart from JOhnson?s handball goal and Cars not being sent off a couple of times when he could have but to suggest a lawsuit is just pushing things a bit far.
I work in a solicitors office and the first question is, do you have any proof, granted Clattenberg should be done under the trades description act, as he is not a ref but the other decisions are because of ineptitude not some half arsed conspiracy.
Roll with the punches is all we can do and take it like a man and not some cry baby when we feel we are hard done by.
Moyes did it last year with Hacket and look at the adverse effect it has had on us this year, the only team in the league not to have been awarded a penalty.
Can you imagine the fallout from a failed court case.
Sure we have been shafted by the refs on occassion and the bollocks about it evening out over the season seems untrue too, apart from JOhnson?s handball goal and Cars not being sent off a couple of times when he could have but to suggest a lawsuit is just pushing things a bit far.
I work in a solicitors office and the first question is, do you have any proof, granted Clattenberg should be done under the trades description act, as he is not a ref but the other decisions are because of ineptitude not some half arsed conspiracy.
Roll with the punches is all we can do and take it like a man and not some cry baby when we feel we are hard done by.
Moyes did it last year with Hacket and look at the adverse effect it has had on us this year, the only team in the league not to have been awarded a penalty.
Can you imagine the fallout from a failed court case.
Alan Codd
13 Posted 22/04/2008 at 09:00:10
13 Posted 22/04/2008 at 09:00:10
If we had tried playing STRIKERS up front against Fulham instaed of a centre half (and yes I DO mean the unde18s if need be).
If we didnt play hoofball and Neville and Carsley in a negative midfield then we shouldn't be worried about finishing 6th or 7th for that matter.
If we didnt play hoofball and Neville and Carsley in a negative midfield then we shouldn't be worried about finishing 6th or 7th for that matter.
Dave Lynch
14 Posted 22/04/2008 at 09:06:53
14 Posted 22/04/2008 at 09:06:53
Tell you what. Let's take this pathetic American psyche to the Nth degree. Let's all file a law suit against Moyes and some of the players for shite tactics and shite performances. I want my money back!
I paid to watch Everton play football and in no small print does it say we will get beat. Players in the wrong position blah blah blah!
GET A LIFE!
Carl Wright
15 Posted 22/04/2008 at 09:19:01
15 Posted 22/04/2008 at 09:19:01
Clutching at straws?
John Dawson
16 Posted 22/04/2008 at 09:16:34
16 Posted 22/04/2008 at 09:16:34
I agree that the above suggestion would stand no chance and is a bit ridiculous. However, there surely would be a case that Cardiff City should not be allowed to take an English place in the UEFA Cup should they come runner up in the FA Cup. They enter the tournament year in year out fully aware that they are not allowed to enter the UEFA Cup should they win it.
If they do win it then fair play to them and they probably should get a deserved spec. as a special case. However, i dont think they should be allowed the spec based on finishing 2nd and having the rules changed.
If Platini wants to give them a wild card then thats exactly what it should be, and should be additional to the standard English places that exist. Therefore 6th place in the Prem would be enough should Portsmouth win.
If this were the case (hoping Portsmouth win) then barring a Man City miracle, Everton & Villa fans could be happy in Europe.
To have the rules changed again (a la redshite 2005), so far in to the season would be a disgrace.
If they do win it then fair play to them and they probably should get a deserved spec. as a special case. However, i dont think they should be allowed the spec based on finishing 2nd and having the rules changed.
If Platini wants to give them a wild card then thats exactly what it should be, and should be additional to the standard English places that exist. Therefore 6th place in the Prem would be enough should Portsmouth win.
If this were the case (hoping Portsmouth win) then barring a Man City miracle, Everton & Villa fans could be happy in Europe.
To have the rules changed again (a la redshite 2005), so far in to the season would be a disgrace.
Mick Gallagher
17 Posted 22/04/2008 at 09:34:59
17 Posted 22/04/2008 at 09:34:59
Good point Tony, if Moyes say?s anything this season about the so-called ref?s, we?ll be lucky to get a corner next season. So let's hope we get Arteta or Osman back a bit more attack minded and don't play Neville and Carsley in the middle. It's only Villa ffs.
Eric Myles
18 Posted 22/04/2008 at 09:49:14
18 Posted 22/04/2008 at 09:49:14
Tony Wiliams - there is plenty of proof of referee negligence available as every game is videotaped these days and it is negligent of the FA/FL not to use this technology that is vailable.
If I made as many ’mistakes’ in my job as a ’professional’ referee does then I’d be out of a job and have my arse sued off, as I’m sure you and most other footy fans would.
Remeber that now it’s all big business and all about money so it’s about time the FA and FL got professional and stop running the game like their own private little club.
Then maybe the ’bottom 16’ would be more competetive in the league.
If I made as many ’mistakes’ in my job as a ’professional’ referee does then I’d be out of a job and have my arse sued off, as I’m sure you and most other footy fans would.
Remeber that now it’s all big business and all about money so it’s about time the FA and FL got professional and stop running the game like their own private little club.
Then maybe the ’bottom 16’ would be more competetive in the league.
Nick Wall
19 Posted 22/04/2008 at 11:04:27
19 Posted 22/04/2008 at 11:04:27
It?s a sad reflection of where we?re at that we?re even having this conversation. 5th place unlikely?? Are we really so pessimistic that we?re expecting to lose at home against Villa? Because even a draw will still leave us in pole position in the battle for 5th, albeit with the more difficult games remaining.
By Sunday we?ll have had a 10 day break to heal injuries and restore energy, so let?s show a bit of confidence and belief in the players who?ve got us into a European place to finish the job.
By Sunday we?ll have had a 10 day break to heal injuries and restore energy, so let?s show a bit of confidence and belief in the players who?ve got us into a European place to finish the job.
Matt Garen
20 Posted 22/04/2008 at 11:09:10
20 Posted 22/04/2008 at 11:09:10
Mick, Agree obviously we need Arteta and Osman back for Sunday, but have to take issue with Neville comment. I thought against Chelsea he has his best game for ages. At least he was winning tackles and playing it easy when he could. I have panned him all season when he has been full back but he wasnt bad against Chelsea.
Back to the issue, its a daft one, would probably cost more in legal fees than Pienaar's transfer fee and would be laughed out of whatever "Court" it was in. Its not the refs who have out us on the average run, its the fact we sold Mcfadden and took a centre back on loan for £20k a week with no chance of playing, instead of getting a replacement midfield / attacker.
We were lucky (but for Tim) this season with injuries and unless we spend £20m on Pienaar, a intl class central mid and another striker (AJ for his effort is not good enough) then Europe will be a waste of time again anyway because we cant play 55/60 games a season with a squad of 17!
Back to the issue, its a daft one, would probably cost more in legal fees than Pienaar's transfer fee and would be laughed out of whatever "Court" it was in. Its not the refs who have out us on the average run, its the fact we sold Mcfadden and took a centre back on loan for £20k a week with no chance of playing, instead of getting a replacement midfield / attacker.
We were lucky (but for Tim) this season with injuries and unless we spend £20m on Pienaar, a intl class central mid and another striker (AJ for his effort is not good enough) then Europe will be a waste of time again anyway because we cant play 55/60 games a season with a squad of 17!
Tony Williams
21 Posted 22/04/2008 at 11:40:39
21 Posted 22/04/2008 at 11:40:39
Eric, I agree that the games are taped but as for proof of deliberate negligence, there is none.
If you just state negligence then there would be 19 other Claimants included on the summons, including the "Sky 4", so it kinds of defeats the object really.
If you just state negligence then there would be 19 other Claimants included on the summons, including the "Sky 4", so it kinds of defeats the object really.
Dave Dawson
22 Posted 22/04/2008 at 11:46:13
22 Posted 22/04/2008 at 11:46:13
The defeatist posts I?m reading time and time again are really getting on my pip!! What the hell is the matter with all of youse who are expecting the worst.
For pete's sake, we are in the driving seat and should expect to finish above VIlla and Portsmouth. Why not focus on the positives:
1. We have two winnable games left at home and only one away, villa have two away and only one at home. We can be the 12th man.
2. Our players have had a longer rest than Villas.
3. It was only three games ago where VIlla were coming off the back of a run similar to our current one.
Lets have some confidence and belief, I believe we?ll get six points from the last three games and finish 5th.
By the way, Mr Moyes's lack of confidence and lack of fighting talk is also starting to grate, from what I read in the media he?s not exactly geeing the players up for what now is our biggest game of the season!
For pete's sake, we are in the driving seat and should expect to finish above VIlla and Portsmouth. Why not focus on the positives:
1. We have two winnable games left at home and only one away, villa have two away and only one at home. We can be the 12th man.
2. Our players have had a longer rest than Villas.
3. It was only three games ago where VIlla were coming off the back of a run similar to our current one.
Lets have some confidence and belief, I believe we?ll get six points from the last three games and finish 5th.
By the way, Mr Moyes's lack of confidence and lack of fighting talk is also starting to grate, from what I read in the media he?s not exactly geeing the players up for what now is our biggest game of the season!
Karl Masters
23 Posted 22/04/2008 at 12:29:15
23 Posted 22/04/2008 at 12:29:15
Jimmy Cack: The game is on Sunday not Saturday against Villa.
We are 3 points ahead of them, playing at home to them with 3 matches to go. We are in pole position. Imagine if it were the other way round. Villa won?t be that confident.
Yes, they have banged in 15 goals, but only against poor opposition and a month ago were losing at home to Sunderland and torn apart at Manure, plus a home draw with Boro so they aren?t THAT good.
I predict a 2-0 Everton win on Sunday with a return to form of some of our key players.
We are 3 points ahead of them, playing at home to them with 3 matches to go. We are in pole position. Imagine if it were the other way round. Villa won?t be that confident.
Yes, they have banged in 15 goals, but only against poor opposition and a month ago were losing at home to Sunderland and torn apart at Manure, plus a home draw with Boro so they aren?t THAT good.
I predict a 2-0 Everton win on Sunday with a return to form of some of our key players.
jayharris
24 Posted 22/04/2008 at 12:50:49
24 Posted 22/04/2008 at 12:50:49
Lets all forget law suits,loss of form,the depression etc. and REALLY get behind the lads this sunday.
Lets show them what it means to us too instead of being a bunch of negative,nervous wrecks.
Lets make it fortress Goodison instead of Anfield Cemetery.
COYB
Lets show them what it means to us too instead of being a bunch of negative,nervous wrecks.
Lets make it fortress Goodison instead of Anfield Cemetery.
COYB
Joe McMahon
25 Posted 22/04/2008 at 13:38:59
25 Posted 22/04/2008 at 13:38:59
OK- YES - we have had a rough ride with refs, BUT in all honesty we have had the chances to beat teams we should be thrashing. IF you lose to Fulham, you have to accept that maybe, just maybe you ain’t good enough!
We play Neville & Carsley in Midfield and have 8.5 million Johnson upfront who has the weakest shot in history.
Maybe Villa and Portsmoith play better football, it hurts but maybe they are better teams, whoses managers aren’t affraid to play attacking football.
We play Neville & Carsley in Midfield and have 8.5 million Johnson upfront who has the weakest shot in history.
Maybe Villa and Portsmoith play better football, it hurts but maybe they are better teams, whoses managers aren’t affraid to play attacking football.
Chris Perry
26 Posted 22/04/2008 at 07:59:46
26 Posted 22/04/2008 at 07:59:46
Should we sue the FA for the refs cheating us out of points!!! If so I will sue Everton Football Club for claiming to play football on fuck knows how many occasions!
I prediccted we will take 3 points from the last 5 games, I am looking good for it, we draw with the mighty Brum, get beaten by Chelsea, which is no surprise as we never play well against a top side or a bottom side come to that!
Arsenal will beat us, we will draw with Villa and Newcastle. We are just not good enough to do any better.
Rupert Sullivan
27 Posted 22/04/2008 at 14:56:59
27 Posted 22/04/2008 at 14:56:59
I have always felt that ref’s decisions go both ways and is part of the game - I would however be interested to know how many teams have ever gone a season without having a penalty awarded - I would bet money that it doesn’t happen all that often.
Albert Dock
28 Posted 22/04/2008 at 15:32:41
28 Posted 22/04/2008 at 15:32:41
Just seen that the referee who dis-allowed an Aberdeen equaliser against Celtic has now acknowledged that it should have been ruled a legitimate goal.
Think they?ll change the result?
Am I a Pomeranian long haired show dog with an above average typing speed?
Think they?ll change the result?
Am I a Pomeranian long haired show dog with an above average typing speed?
Eric Myles
29 Posted 23/04/2008 at 06:33:26
29 Posted 23/04/2008 at 06:33:26
Tony Williams - surely a doctor deosn’t have to deliberately leave his watch in a patient on the operating table for it to be negligent?
From my recollection of Law Studies the damage has to have been avoidable and the consequences reasonably foreseeable?
In both cases this applies to the FA / FL not using available technology and could also apply to the referee not seeking opinion of the other 3 officials.
From my recollection of Law Studies the damage has to have been avoidable and the consequences reasonably foreseeable?
In both cases this applies to the FA / FL not using available technology and could also apply to the referee not seeking opinion of the other 3 officials.
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1 Posted 22/04/2008 at 04:53:06
Beside it’s not them that’s screwed us, it’s the referees so if there was to be any redress it would have to be a law suit against the Referees Association for professional negligence.
The only outside chance that redress could be sought from the FA or EPL is that they are negligent in not using available video technology to prevent these problems.
But again, it’s their ball so we play by their rules and they’re probably written to protect their arses.
But allowing such lawsuits could open the game up to real legal extremes such as why not sue the player that dived to win the penalty to win the game? Then we’d have more football being played in the High Courts than on the field.