The Mail Bag
YES Voters - Realisation!
Comments (54)
I sent this email to KEIOC earlier today (no response as yet), was just wanting some general feedback, ideas and input from the cultured ToffeeWeb followers. Go easy guys... this is my first post, in the words of the awful but tasty Natasha Beddingfield, "I bruise easily!"...
Hi KEIOC,
My name is John McKie and I am a season ticket holder in the Lower Gwladys. I was entitled to a vote in the 07' ballot. My vote was 'YES' to the move.
I felt the move was sold in a positive manner (i.e. no or minimal debt, large high quality and modern stadium, developed transport links and corporate facilities, etc) to the supporters and the intrigued media. However, I am not normally a gullible person but regrettably, I feel I was on this occasion.
It now transpires that the move will cost the club in the region of the £75m mark and on the evidence of the more recent pictures, the ground would simply be of a mediocre standard (which is not good enough for a club of Evertons stature).
In a nutshell, I am unhappy with the inconsistencies (aka - LIES) that have been sold to the loyal supporters and I wish it was possible to retract my YES vote. Now I know that is not possible, therefore, I was wondering if there is any sort of KEIOC vote or petition that relates solely to YES voters retracting and/or changing their votes? If so, how do I access it? If not, can you please, please, please create such a vote/petition which can then be used to then block the move to Kirkby which is now sadly gathering pace. I feel there are many, many more loyal and avid fans like me that given the opportunity, would like to retract/amend their previous vote.
Thank you very much for your time and on behalf of all Everton fans I would like to offer appreciation for the efforts made on your part in preserving the history and tradition of our fantastic club.
Regards,
John McKie
John McKie, Posted 22/04/2008 at 21:16:49
Comments
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
Erik Dols
2 Posted 23/04/2008 at 07:41:33
2 Posted 23/04/2008 at 07:41:33
Let’s use that one in general elections as well!
Chris Dottie
3 Posted 23/04/2008 at 08:27:36
3 Posted 23/04/2008 at 08:27:36
Fair play John, if you believe in something you have to feel you’ve done your bit.
Tony Williams
4 Posted 23/04/2008 at 08:50:51
4 Posted 23/04/2008 at 08:50:51
Brilliant, first post is a whinge, certainly in keeping with this site of late.
You may "bruise easily" but you have started a thread with one of, if not THE most contraversial topic on here.
The phrase "Reap what you sow" springs to mind and methinks that you will be getting lots of praise from the No camp and lots of lambasting from the Yes camp.
All I can say is that you seem like a poster that will fit in well with this site.
Enjoy
You may "bruise easily" but you have started a thread with one of, if not THE most contraversial topic on here.
The phrase "Reap what you sow" springs to mind and methinks that you will be getting lots of praise from the No camp and lots of lambasting from the Yes camp.
All I can say is that you seem like a poster that will fit in well with this site.
Enjoy
Davey Miltiwitch
5 Posted 23/04/2008 at 09:10:53
5 Posted 23/04/2008 at 09:10:53
John,
You naiveity is astounding. Did you not learn about propaganda in school? Did you not sense the danger when destination Kirkby was announced? What about no plan B? How about deal of the fucking century?
Its not as if you were’nt given enough warning signs lad!
You voted Yes, as someone else said reap what you sow.
You naiveity is astounding. Did you not learn about propaganda in school? Did you not sense the danger when destination Kirkby was announced? What about no plan B? How about deal of the fucking century?
Its not as if you were’nt given enough warning signs lad!
You voted Yes, as someone else said reap what you sow.
Gavin Ramejkis
6 Posted 23/04/2008 at 09:23:52
6 Posted 23/04/2008 at 09:23:52
Tony Williams if you don’t like this site why keep returning to it? If you want rose tinted glasses you should try Pravda - www.evertonfc.com. At least this site has the balls to allow all sides of the debates and should be applauded for continuing to do so, if the editorial team side one way or another that is their right in a democracy and even more so as it’s their site.
Steve Williams
7 Posted 23/04/2008 at 09:32:23
7 Posted 23/04/2008 at 09:32:23
I am as much against the move now as I ever was, but ... I have to accept that if the powers that be want to continue this folly then there is little that can be done.
Except ... all the YES voters should challenge the club to deliver the project that THEY had bought into. Otherwise, they arre merely saying, ’we’ve been conned, screwed, shafted etc ... but I don’t care’.
Don’t forget:
- World class arena,
- top class facilities
- little or no debt,
- £10m+ per season extra for players,
- 50,000 attendances
I look forward to the YES voters keeping the club honest and true to their word.
Except ... all the YES voters should challenge the club to deliver the project that THEY had bought into. Otherwise, they arre merely saying, ’we’ve been conned, screwed, shafted etc ... but I don’t care’.
Don’t forget:
- World class arena,
- top class facilities
- little or no debt,
- £10m+ per season extra for players,
- 50,000 attendances
I look forward to the YES voters keeping the club honest and true to their word.
Mark Stone
8 Posted 23/04/2008 at 09:36:29
8 Posted 23/04/2008 at 09:36:29
I?m aware that there are a lot of people who voted Yes but have since changed their mind (upon finding out the real cost etc). Might not get you anywhere, but worth ago. If 5,000 yes voters wrote to the club retracting their vote, BK would have to have a think about it!
Ray Roche
9 Posted 23/04/2008 at 09:27:50
9 Posted 23/04/2008 at 09:27:50
"Accept you voted yes and move on".....hmmm...."Let?s use that one in general elections as well".....I can see your point...but, just imagine, though, if this or any Government had allowed a referendum on that thorniest of topics, Capital Punishment for child murder, terrorism,etc., and,after an overwhelming "YES" vote, decided that,instead of "You will be taken from this place to a place of execution where you will be hung by the neck until dead" they would use "You will be taken from this place to another place where you will be told not to do it again, given a nice cup of tea and the bus fare home". You?d think that we?d been lied to wouldn?t you?
Tony Williams
10 Posted 23/04/2008 at 09:34:53
10 Posted 23/04/2008 at 09:34:53
Gavin, never once said that I don?t like the site.
I don?t want rose tinted, safe and boring discussion either but I have a right to put my opinion across as much as yours so why should I be quiet if I feel (my opinion) a poster has simply started a thread to get a response.
Not really a suspicious person but anyone can come on here and say there were a yes voter now want it changed to no because of the.. (include any vitrolic rant you want).
Most of these same rants were out there when the vote was ongoing so why all of a sudden has this posters realised that he was possibly fooled? Why now start a thread when it has been how many months?
Am I not allowed to put questions forward or make comments anymore?
I don?t want rose tinted, safe and boring discussion either but I have a right to put my opinion across as much as yours so why should I be quiet if I feel (my opinion) a poster has simply started a thread to get a response.
Not really a suspicious person but anyone can come on here and say there were a yes voter now want it changed to no because of the.. (include any vitrolic rant you want).
Most of these same rants were out there when the vote was ongoing so why all of a sudden has this posters realised that he was possibly fooled? Why now start a thread when it has been how many months?
Am I not allowed to put questions forward or make comments anymore?
Paul Chisholm
11 Posted 23/04/2008 at 10:19:41
11 Posted 23/04/2008 at 10:19:41
I’ve found the perfect solution. Lets move Kirkby to Walton.
Steve Lyth
12 Posted 23/04/2008 at 10:09:08
12 Posted 23/04/2008 at 10:09:08
John many thanks for your retraction, the sooner everybody else wakes up to the fat one's lies the better. Destination Kirkby was and is all about Wyness's wallet.
Peter Barnes
13 Posted 23/04/2008 at 10:01:19
13 Posted 23/04/2008 at 10:01:19
I too was a Yes voter, I believed the lies that the club fed us, the "world class arena", "an extra £10 mil for players","debt free", what a fool I feel now. I know what you?re all going to say, you reap what you sow. At the time I thought it would be in the clubs best interests to move and I still do, we need to move forward, but not to a mid-standard stadium thats going to get the club into £78 million worth of debt. I think it?s a joke the way the fans have been treated over this and something needs to be done. I know I?m probably going to get slated for initially being a Yes voter but based on everything the club fed us at the time I?d still vote yes now. How was I supposed to know it would all turn out to be pure lies?
Anthony O'Sullivan
14 Posted 23/04/2008 at 10:43:53
14 Posted 23/04/2008 at 10:43:53
Give me a fucking break will ye.
Do ye think a stadium any where inside outside the city or even where Goodison stands was going to be free?!!!!
KEIOC can't now compain that we will have a debt of £78 mill when their ideas would have plunged us into debt of a similar in not larger amount as building in a city is far more expensive!
£78 mill is nothing for a new stadium.
Do ye think a stadium any where inside outside the city or even where Goodison stands was going to be free?!!!!
KEIOC can't now compain that we will have a debt of £78 mill when their ideas would have plunged us into debt of a similar in not larger amount as building in a city is far more expensive!
£78 mill is nothing for a new stadium.
Darren White
15 Posted 23/04/2008 at 11:13:26
15 Posted 23/04/2008 at 11:13:26
There?s never going to be another ballot and there shouldnt be. We all make mistakes and I did too - I voted ?no? but since more info has come to light I now wish I?d voted ?yes? - that's just the way it goes mate, though Ii?m in the fortunate position that another 60% who bothered to vote voted ?yes?, so my changed view prevails.
Ray Roche
16 Posted 23/04/2008 at 11:06:47
16 Posted 23/04/2008 at 11:06:47
Anthony O'Sullivan,
£78m is not "virtually free",mid range stadium is not "World class arena". John McKie has voiced his concerns regarding the misrepresentation of the original description contained in the voting pack that we were sent. I think that there would be a massive "NO" vote if we were in receipt of the information that has trickled out since last August. He is entitled to voice his opinions just as you are.
Steve Lyth
17 Posted 23/04/2008 at 11:20:15
17 Posted 23/04/2008 at 11:20:15
Darren are you trying to be controversial or are you just a muppet?
Given all the news that is now in the public domain you would now vote NO!!
You're laughable and it's people like you who will end up at that stadium if it comes off........ think about it.
Given all the news that is now in the public domain you would now vote NO!!
You're laughable and it's people like you who will end up at that stadium if it comes off........ think about it.
Darren White
18 Posted 23/04/2008 at 11:36:45
18 Posted 23/04/2008 at 11:36:45
No Steve, I?m not a muppet, I?m a realist. Having now found out about the £78m that the club has to pay then that's a pretty darn good deal for a 50,000 new ground, I can see at least half of that being found by naming rights, sale of GP and Bellefield so it IS a good deal. That's why I?ve changed from a ?no? to a ?yes?. You have a problem with someone having a different view to you, fine but thats ?muppet? material in my book. Grow up and get over it.
Steve Lyth
19 Posted 23/04/2008 at 11:46:05
19 Posted 23/04/2008 at 11:46:05
I meant YES, put me down as a trainee muppet LOL and before you do Ray,DONT !
Peter Roberts
20 Posted 23/04/2008 at 11:48:48
20 Posted 23/04/2008 at 11:48:48
I?m a yes voter too and I?m glad of it, the recent ?revelations? about how the club can fund it only reinforces my belief I made the right choice.
Ian Thomas
21 Posted 23/04/2008 at 11:52:14
21 Posted 23/04/2008 at 11:52:14
When I voted yes it was being touted as ’effectively free’, since the news about the £78m and how easily the club should find the monies for it I now think it can now lbe labelled ’nearly effectively free’ - which is still a good thing imo.
Ray Roche
22 Posted 23/04/2008 at 12:02:52
22 Posted 23/04/2008 at 12:02:52
Steve Lyth
What?
You’re certainly not a "trainee" muppet, Steve.........
Steve Lyth
23 Posted 23/04/2008 at 12:00:33
23 Posted 23/04/2008 at 12:00:33
£78 mil effectively free to a club currently in excess of £50 mil debt, I have heard it all now. You are welcome to your mid range retail park stadium, you deserve nothing better.
Its a shame that ultimately it will bring about the demise of a once proud and great football club.
Ah well guess we will have to console ourselves with the David France collection in the not to distant future, all due to those that believe money grows on trees. The club owns very little and the assets you speak of are mortgaged to the hilt. Do a little research before making such outlandish claims.
Its a shame that ultimately it will bring about the demise of a once proud and great football club.
Ah well guess we will have to console ourselves with the David France collection in the not to distant future, all due to those that believe money grows on trees. The club owns very little and the assets you speak of are mortgaged to the hilt. Do a little research before making such outlandish claims.
Steve Lyth
24 Posted 23/04/2008 at 12:10:22
24 Posted 23/04/2008 at 12:10:22
Thanks Ray, raised a laugh with that !!
Finding it increasingly difficult to laugh when it concerns our club at the mo mate
Finding it increasingly difficult to laugh when it concerns our club at the mo mate
Dave Flinton
25 Posted 23/04/2008 at 12:25:58
25 Posted 23/04/2008 at 12:25:58
We won't have anywhere near the £78M debt for long.
The sale of Bellefield and Goodison to developers will pay of over half of that, plus the sale of the naming rights will pay off a sizeable chuck too. I would expect us to have at very worst £20M debts.
More scaremongering bollocks.
The sale of Bellefield and Goodison to developers will pay of over half of that, plus the sale of the naming rights will pay off a sizeable chuck too. I would expect us to have at very worst £20M debts.
More scaremongering bollocks.
Adam Bennett
26 Posted 23/04/2008 at 12:34:27
26 Posted 23/04/2008 at 12:34:27
For me, the vote result should have been null and void. Electoral rules state that an election vote count has to be overseen by an independent judicator and witnessed by representatives of each side, so could someone please explain to me why the count was conducted behind closed doors and then leaked to Sky Sports News the night before the result was due to be announced??
Also, I know of season ticket holders who didn?t receive a ballot paper and Liverpool fans who did (as they are Evertonia members so that they can get tickets for the Goodison Derby) which cannot be right.
For me, the whole vote was? erm? well? - in fact I?d rather not say the word as I?m a bit skint a the minute thanks to the 10p income tax change so could do without Keith Wyness using the club's solicitors to try and sue me!
David Thompson
27 Posted 23/04/2008 at 12:37:10
27 Posted 23/04/2008 at 12:37:10
Dave Finton....How will the naming rights pay off a sizeable chunk?
They are payable over the term of the contract - in Arsenal’s case, 15 years.
Everton have to have that money UP FRONT. They therefore have to borrow it - they use the term ’securitisation’ in the same way that our £30M loan from Bear Sterns against future season ticket income is also called ’securitisation’ but does anyone think it’s not a loan?
OK - they know where the money will be coming from for 15 years, but in borrowing it, at a time when borrowing is expensive, don’t forget, the total value of naming rights is reduced by the interest payable.
Given that Goodison is already mortgaged, the only assets likely to raise cash up front are Bellefield and players.
In addition, the £52M ’enabling money’ is to come from rental income on the retail units, according to the DTZ statement. But that money is going to have to be found up front too, to pay the builders. Where is it coming from? Are Everton borrowing it?
You can read the DTZ statement on this in a couple of ways, but it appears to come under Everton’s brief. It should, however, be made completely clear.
£20M debts? You’re joking, surely....
They are payable over the term of the contract - in Arsenal’s case, 15 years.
Everton have to have that money UP FRONT. They therefore have to borrow it - they use the term ’securitisation’ in the same way that our £30M loan from Bear Sterns against future season ticket income is also called ’securitisation’ but does anyone think it’s not a loan?
OK - they know where the money will be coming from for 15 years, but in borrowing it, at a time when borrowing is expensive, don’t forget, the total value of naming rights is reduced by the interest payable.
Given that Goodison is already mortgaged, the only assets likely to raise cash up front are Bellefield and players.
In addition, the £52M ’enabling money’ is to come from rental income on the retail units, according to the DTZ statement. But that money is going to have to be found up front too, to pay the builders. Where is it coming from? Are Everton borrowing it?
You can read the DTZ statement on this in a couple of ways, but it appears to come under Everton’s brief. It should, however, be made completely clear.
£20M debts? You’re joking, surely....
Steve Lyth
28 Posted 23/04/2008 at 12:44:50
28 Posted 23/04/2008 at 12:44:50
Dave Flinton, I am a shareholder, the club's account aren't supposed to lie and the facts are the club has debt currently in excess of £50mil. Everything is mortgaged or leased except what we have on the pitch. Scare mongering my arse ? when are you people going to wake up? like I said, you deserve nothing more than a retail park stadium, you're welcome to it ? it's going to look awesome with average gates of 26,000.
Terry Holland
29 Posted 23/04/2008 at 12:56:39
29 Posted 23/04/2008 at 12:56:39
How about this one....
I am a no voter, who is going to pretend i voted yes. Then say that i have now made a mistake and want to change my vote.
This will then make everyone think that all the yes voters are slowly starting to change their minds and everything will be ok......
Masterplan!
I am a no voter, who is going to pretend i voted yes. Then say that i have now made a mistake and want to change my vote.
This will then make everyone think that all the yes voters are slowly starting to change their minds and everything will be ok......
Masterplan!
John McKie
30 Posted 23/04/2008 at 13:05:30
30 Posted 23/04/2008 at 13:05:30
Thanks for all the input and feedback gents.
I was expecting some criticism and to be honest it is deserved, but hindsight is a wonderful thing. I am my own biggest critic, particularly in relation to this vote but I am still entitled to my opinion.
Just remember, the fact that I vote YES or NO, or the fact that I want to retract/change my vote doesnt alter the fact that I, like all of you, only want the best for my football club.
It was interesting to see that some of the ’NO’ voters were also doubting their stance now so I definitely think that some sort of re-vote should be cast. Of course, the club will never carry such out, as it would be detrimental to their plans but is their any scope in an unoffical vote based on the information we now have today? Perhaps this would alter the 60/40 (approx) percentage and perhaps it could be submitted not only to the board but also to Knowsley Council, who are currently reviewing the planning application.
Anyway, as I said... thanks for all your comments, glad the subject was actually discussed/debated.
I was expecting some criticism and to be honest it is deserved, but hindsight is a wonderful thing. I am my own biggest critic, particularly in relation to this vote but I am still entitled to my opinion.
Just remember, the fact that I vote YES or NO, or the fact that I want to retract/change my vote doesnt alter the fact that I, like all of you, only want the best for my football club.
It was interesting to see that some of the ’NO’ voters were also doubting their stance now so I definitely think that some sort of re-vote should be cast. Of course, the club will never carry such out, as it would be detrimental to their plans but is their any scope in an unoffical vote based on the information we now have today? Perhaps this would alter the 60/40 (approx) percentage and perhaps it could be submitted not only to the board but also to Knowsley Council, who are currently reviewing the planning application.
Anyway, as I said... thanks for all your comments, glad the subject was actually discussed/debated.
Michael Kenrick
31 Posted 23/04/2008 at 13:13:12
31 Posted 23/04/2008 at 13:13:12
Okay, maybe I?m naieve but I would like to believe that most of the people using this forum are genuine. That the views they are posting are not just as a wind-up or as the kind of thing you, Tony and Terry, suspect in this case.
Of course I can?t be sure... but once you go down that slippery path, you completely undermine the whole basis of this place as a discussion forum. And THAT is what I object to most strenuously in what you are saying here.
Of course I can?t be sure... but once you go down that slippery path, you completely undermine the whole basis of this place as a discussion forum. And THAT is what I object to most strenuously in what you are saying here.
So I'd really appreciate it if you guys would back off from this nonsense. The level of trust in a free forum like this is, I believe, an important thing to maintain. If you wish to sacrifce that for a little bit of point-scoring against a position you despise, so be it. But I think you will find you are opening a very problematic can of worms. Hopefully this response from John will help convince you that you are wrong in this case.
Tony Williams
32 Posted 23/04/2008 at 13:17:23
32 Posted 23/04/2008 at 13:17:23
John just interested why you think that there should be a "sort of re-vote"?
Why should the club do this when they already have an independent company run the last ballot and already have a result?
I still hold fast to the idea of making us vote was a disgusting idea where BK and Wyness could easily avoid angry fans saying, "Well you voted for it"
The further info coming to light is just like a political party when they say they will bring in a certain policy to get votes then bung out completely or change it drastically when they are in power, however they aren?t requested to have a "re-vote"
Terry Howard, spot on
Why should the club do this when they already have an independent company run the last ballot and already have a result?
I still hold fast to the idea of making us vote was a disgusting idea where BK and Wyness could easily avoid angry fans saying, "Well you voted for it"
The further info coming to light is just like a political party when they say they will bring in a certain policy to get votes then bung out completely or change it drastically when they are in power, however they aren?t requested to have a "re-vote"
Terry Howard, spot on
Michael Kenrick
33 Posted 23/04/2008 at 13:27:00
33 Posted 23/04/2008 at 13:27:00
I’m sorry Tony, but Terry is not "Spot on".
If you and he are not going to treat posts in good faith, you destroy the entire spirit of this discussion, and in my view, as Editor, you are abrogating any valid participation in this forum.
If you and he are not going to treat posts in good faith, you destroy the entire spirit of this discussion, and in my view, as Editor, you are abrogating any valid participation in this forum.
Tony Williams
34 Posted 23/04/2008 at 13:24:38
34 Posted 23/04/2008 at 13:24:38
MIchael I don?t for one second believe you are naive, I do believe that you agree with what the author of the post is saying, which is fair enough.
My posts are not meant to be one up kind of posts, I just like asking why certain posters have certain views. For instance why did John feel the need to post that article now when this issue has been ongoing for so long previously, there have been many posts he could have entered.
Possibly he has only just found this site, which I find it hard to believe as it is one of the most popluar amongst us fans.
My posts are not meant to be one up kind of posts, I just like asking why certain posters have certain views. For instance why did John feel the need to post that article now when this issue has been ongoing for so long previously, there have been many posts he could have entered.
Possibly he has only just found this site, which I find it hard to believe as it is one of the most popluar amongst us fans.
Michael Kenrick
35 Posted 23/04/2008 at 13:36:29
35 Posted 23/04/2008 at 13:36:29
Tony, you are conveniently avoiding the issue. This has nothing whatsoever to do with whether I agree with the original post.
Please re-read what I have challenged you over, which is the issue of whether or not such posts are genuine.
To question the timing of this post is irrelevant. People post whenever they post. Why even question that?
Please re-read what I have challenged you over, which is the issue of whether or not such posts are genuine.
To question the timing of this post is irrelevant. People post whenever they post. Why even question that?
Shaun Brennan
36 Posted 23/04/2008 at 13:47:47
36 Posted 23/04/2008 at 13:47:47
Youv?e made your bed now sleep in it.
To be fair thats the only way I see it.
Imagine trying to overthrow a goverement over "lies".
It?s not going to happen. No-one is entitled to a re-vote.
To be fair thats the only way I see it.
Imagine trying to overthrow a goverement over "lies".
It?s not going to happen. No-one is entitled to a re-vote.
Tony Williams
37 Posted 23/04/2008 at 13:44:22
37 Posted 23/04/2008 at 13:44:22
No probs Michael I will deal with the issue.
I honestly don?t believe what the author of the initial post says, it?s not a nice answer but it is my view.
My initial post was a bit OTT but you have to admit that of late there seems to a dark cloud over this website and all it?s posters.
Yes I know we are playing shite on the field and could be throwing away a great 2/3?s of our season but I am an optimist and hope we don?t and therefore like to question fans who are so, angry, depressed, bitter etc etc to find out why.
I read in a post recently something that stuck. He said that complaining is the easiest thing to do and I completely agree with him.
I suppose it goes back to my footballing days, I was a defender and I like defending, be it Everton FC, the players, or Moyes and I ask people's reasons for their pessimistic views to try and understand them.
Everyone's views are different and it would be a boring site if it wasn?t but it shouldn?t mean that I can?t question people?s view or in this instance motive.
I think this is a great site but, as stated above, of late it seems to be filled with more doom mongerers than ever.
I honestly don?t believe what the author of the initial post says, it?s not a nice answer but it is my view.
My initial post was a bit OTT but you have to admit that of late there seems to a dark cloud over this website and all it?s posters.
Yes I know we are playing shite on the field and could be throwing away a great 2/3?s of our season but I am an optimist and hope we don?t and therefore like to question fans who are so, angry, depressed, bitter etc etc to find out why.
I read in a post recently something that stuck. He said that complaining is the easiest thing to do and I completely agree with him.
I suppose it goes back to my footballing days, I was a defender and I like defending, be it Everton FC, the players, or Moyes and I ask people's reasons for their pessimistic views to try and understand them.
Everyone's views are different and it would be a boring site if it wasn?t but it shouldn?t mean that I can?t question people?s view or in this instance motive.
I think this is a great site but, as stated above, of late it seems to be filled with more doom mongerers than ever.
John McKie
38 Posted 23/04/2008 at 13:43:41
38 Posted 23/04/2008 at 13:43:41
Tony and Terry, to answer your questions or doubts...
My post is very genuine and I have just received a response back from KEIOC which basically stated that by the end of the week, they intend to open some sort of forum or collate information in relation to supporters changing/amending votes.
Now, you clearly disagree with my opinion, thats fair enough, but dont question my integrity.
As for Terry, well, need I say anything, your comment is utter rubbish and is not constructive in any way. Your a theorist and there is no foundation to your comment, your basically gossiping, so I suggest you go read OK Magazine or something.
I posted my post now, because to me it was the right time and I wanted to get more involved in the site. Instead of just passing comments here and there, I thought it would be better to create a discussion rather than join in for a change. This particular topic is one I have recently been discussing with friends quite a bit following the renewal of my season ticket (last week), hence the post.
I once again thank people for their genuine comments, whether they agree or not.
Hope that clears things up.
My post is very genuine and I have just received a response back from KEIOC which basically stated that by the end of the week, they intend to open some sort of forum or collate information in relation to supporters changing/amending votes.
Now, you clearly disagree with my opinion, thats fair enough, but dont question my integrity.
As for Terry, well, need I say anything, your comment is utter rubbish and is not constructive in any way. Your a theorist and there is no foundation to your comment, your basically gossiping, so I suggest you go read OK Magazine or something.
I posted my post now, because to me it was the right time and I wanted to get more involved in the site. Instead of just passing comments here and there, I thought it would be better to create a discussion rather than join in for a change. This particular topic is one I have recently been discussing with friends quite a bit following the renewal of my season ticket (last week), hence the post.
I once again thank people for their genuine comments, whether they agree or not.
Hope that clears things up.
John McKie
39 Posted 23/04/2008 at 13:55:23
39 Posted 23/04/2008 at 13:55:23
And I said an unoffical re-vote which could be presented to those concerned.
I'm well aware the club wouldn't carry such out
I'm well aware the club wouldn't carry such out
Michael Kenrick
40 Posted 23/04/2008 at 14:00:41
40 Posted 23/04/2008 at 14:00:41
Tony, If I understand what you are saying, you seem to be conflating two entirely different things: 1) Is a poster serious and genuine? 2) Why are there so many doom-mongers (who, incidentally, you don?t like) posting on here?
Now I can deal with one or the other but to confuse the two is, to my mind, totally unhelpful.
If there is a commomality between these things, it?s the reaction I commonly have to your posts, which is that they convey an intolerance of the other point of view, often calling into question the rights or motives of the person posting (just as in this case).
Again, it?s back to questioning the whole basis of this forum. The forum is for an EXCHANGE of views, not for people like you to stamp all over those you disagree with. I will not have the integrity of this forum highjacked by that kind of attitude.
If you are going to continue to post here, you need to figure out another way of addressing this underlying disrespect you have for the posters you disagree with.
Now I can deal with one or the other but to confuse the two is, to my mind, totally unhelpful.
If there is a commomality between these things, it?s the reaction I commonly have to your posts, which is that they convey an intolerance of the other point of view, often calling into question the rights or motives of the person posting (just as in this case).
Again, it?s back to questioning the whole basis of this forum. The forum is for an EXCHANGE of views, not for people like you to stamp all over those you disagree with. I will not have the integrity of this forum highjacked by that kind of attitude.
If you are going to continue to post here, you need to figure out another way of addressing this underlying disrespect you have for the posters you disagree with.
Tony Williams
41 Posted 23/04/2008 at 14:19:32
41 Posted 23/04/2008 at 14:19:32
Fair enough John, it would seem that I was mistaken and I apologise for that.
Michael I know eactly where you are coming from but as an Editor I would feel that you should apply the same rules for everyone.
I hate returning to him but look at the utter disrespect you get from Tony Marsh and his followers when posters disagree with his comments on one of his articles.
I do not want to come across as disrespectful at all but that is the problem with forums as you cannot show any inflection in text.
A level playing ground would be nice but when dealing with irrational footy fans I suppose that is just wishful thinking.
It seems that you and I have locked horns a fair bit of late and I do not wish to, as I don’t want to be banned from this site that I enjoy visiting.
Michael I know eactly where you are coming from but as an Editor I would feel that you should apply the same rules for everyone.
I hate returning to him but look at the utter disrespect you get from Tony Marsh and his followers when posters disagree with his comments on one of his articles.
I do not want to come across as disrespectful at all but that is the problem with forums as you cannot show any inflection in text.
A level playing ground would be nice but when dealing with irrational footy fans I suppose that is just wishful thinking.
It seems that you and I have locked horns a fair bit of late and I do not wish to, as I don’t want to be banned from this site that I enjoy visiting.
Michael Kenrick
42 Posted 23/04/2008 at 14:38:42
42 Posted 23/04/2008 at 14:38:42
Thank you for that apology, Tony. Please desist form making such accusations in future, for the reasons I have given above.
As for the "doom-mongers" and Tony Marsh, yes, of course people are going to have different views. Personally, I don’t see Tony as being directly abusive to other posters in the way you have been ? it’s more a broader condemnation from Tony that those who don’t see things as he does are actually contributing to the problems he sees with the club, manager, team, etc. I think what happens is people like you take those generalizations personally, and react accordingly.
Surely it’s a no-brainer that when we play poor football, as we have been doing recently in the most painful fashion, we are going to get more people commenting on it. Rather than fighting that (which you can’t), why not be more accepting that, yes, this is a valid view: we are playing like shite.
Sure, you can come up with all these mitigating factors that half the posters are repeating ad nauseam but nothing can take away from the fact that we are playing shite, and people have every right to voice their opinions on that without being called "negative" or "doom-mongers".
As for the "doom-mongers" and Tony Marsh, yes, of course people are going to have different views. Personally, I don’t see Tony as being directly abusive to other posters in the way you have been ? it’s more a broader condemnation from Tony that those who don’t see things as he does are actually contributing to the problems he sees with the club, manager, team, etc. I think what happens is people like you take those generalizations personally, and react accordingly.
Surely it’s a no-brainer that when we play poor football, as we have been doing recently in the most painful fashion, we are going to get more people commenting on it. Rather than fighting that (which you can’t), why not be more accepting that, yes, this is a valid view: we are playing like shite.
Sure, you can come up with all these mitigating factors that half the posters are repeating ad nauseam but nothing can take away from the fact that we are playing shite, and people have every right to voice their opinions on that without being called "negative" or "doom-mongers".
Terry Holland
43 Posted 23/04/2008 at 15:08:55
43 Posted 23/04/2008 at 15:08:55
Michael, you are accusing Tony of stamping on those who?s views he does not agree with. Have the No voters not been doing this since the vote, they have never been questioned.
I also agree with Tony over Tony Marsh and the like. Tony Marsh posted an article the other week and some one disagreed with him and every post they enter was editored and called childish. Surely all psoters should be treated equally.
I also agree with Tony over Tony Marsh and the like. Tony Marsh posted an article the other week and some one disagreed with him and every post they enter was editored and called childish. Surely all psoters should be treated equally.
Tony Williams
44 Posted 23/04/2008 at 15:18:57
44 Posted 23/04/2008 at 15:18:57
Whoa whoa whoa Sweet child of mine, when have I ever been directly abusive to a poster unless I may have responded in kind to someone?
Peter Roberts
45 Posted 23/04/2008 at 16:39:32
45 Posted 23/04/2008 at 16:39:32
PMSL at Johns ’news’ he’s recieved from keioc that they’re going to do a sort of unofficial re-poll - showing us all how the world of Everton has now changed their minds since the vote. KEIOC have been and are the biggest liars since the beginning I cant wait to see how their poll is done. I wonder if they’re going to use the Electoral Reform Society? LOL.
Andrew Baynes
46 Posted 23/04/2008 at 16:51:49
46 Posted 23/04/2008 at 16:51:49
I wouldn't trust any poll from KEIOC, online or otherwise. Before the official ballot they approved of the question as did LCC and thought it was fair enough. They also said they would go along with the result, they obviously thought most Evertonians would ?see the light? and their point of view. They?ve had EIGHT months to get protesting started amongst the fans and eight months later they?re still ignored apart from a handful of interent freaks. Time for that festering sore on the backside of the club to go AWOL methinks.
Kevin Clark
47 Posted 23/04/2008 at 16:47:57
47 Posted 23/04/2008 at 16:47:57
I may have misinterptated the point of the ballot, but this was my take on it:
"Would you be in favour of Everton FC continuing to look at the possibility of moving to Kirkby in a deal with Tesco, where Everton FC after naming rights and sale of GP would effectivly provide a free stadium, Yes or No"
Not, Do you want Everton FC to move to Kirkby? Yes or No.
Not, If we move to Kirkby the stadium WILL be free (looking at the POSSIBILITY it will be free)
They never said if you vote yes (to continuing to look at Kirkby as a possibility) we wont look elsewhere (also never said they would!) The only thing I took from it would be that if No was the overwelming vote, then they would stop looking at Kirkby and go back to the drawing board.
"Would you be in favour of Everton FC continuing to look at the possibility of moving to Kirkby in a deal with Tesco, where Everton FC after naming rights and sale of GP would effectivly provide a free stadium, Yes or No"
Not, Do you want Everton FC to move to Kirkby? Yes or No.
Not, If we move to Kirkby the stadium WILL be free (looking at the POSSIBILITY it will be free)
They never said if you vote yes (to continuing to look at Kirkby as a possibility) we wont look elsewhere (also never said they would!) The only thing I took from it would be that if No was the overwelming vote, then they would stop looking at Kirkby and go back to the drawing board.
John McKie
48 Posted 23/04/2008 at 17:01:45
48 Posted 23/04/2008 at 17:01:45
Tony...
Apology accepted mate.
As I said, all opinions appreciated, just dont question my morales or integrity, I am an Evertonian at the end of the day and want the same as you mate...
The BEST for OUR club.
Apology accepted mate.
As I said, all opinions appreciated, just dont question my morales or integrity, I am an Evertonian at the end of the day and want the same as you mate...
The BEST for OUR club.
Steven William
49 Posted 23/04/2008 at 18:51:21
49 Posted 23/04/2008 at 18:51:21
To all yes voters, if you feel you have been misled and lied to, do what any one would do and write to the club telling them your feelings. I voted NO and have not and will not renew my season ticket, which I have held for over 25 years. If enough people write in to the club refusing to renew before the Deal of the Century is completed, then they will have to take notice or they will be playing in front of a half-full stadium, which will seriousley affect the club's finances. It's ok writing to forums but they can't do anything about it, WRITE TO THE CLUB and let them know how you feel; also send a copy to the Echo.
Jimmy Millican
50 Posted 23/04/2008 at 21:53:55
50 Posted 23/04/2008 at 21:53:55
I couldnt decide at the time what to vote so i never.
However if i had the chance i would have voted YES. I honestly feel our ground is a pile of cack compared to others. I went to Wigan this year and although its smaller its still a better ground , yes WIGAN!!! for gods sake.
Its time people just get on with it that we are movin and lets get behind the team, something like this could drive us into a new level.
However if i had the chance i would have voted YES. I honestly feel our ground is a pile of cack compared to others. I went to Wigan this year and although its smaller its still a better ground , yes WIGAN!!! for gods sake.
Its time people just get on with it that we are movin and lets get behind the team, something like this could drive us into a new level.
robert carney
51 Posted 23/04/2008 at 22:35:47
51 Posted 23/04/2008 at 22:35:47
Peter , please show me proof of keioc as total liars. You give no examples what so -ever. The leadership of Everton have on many occasions proved to be economical with the facts(lots of threats and writs flying about now).
The only thing I have seen, represents a concerted and very professional alternative to the no pland B shit offered by Everton. Trevor Skempton, Ton Hughes and is like come across , as being more honest than anything I have heard coming from the official line.
Maybe we read / hear what we want to.
I was obeying orders comes to mind, lesser known as a full brown nose even better. After all they are my bosses.
The only thing I have seen, represents a concerted and very professional alternative to the no pland B shit offered by Everton. Trevor Skempton, Ton Hughes and is like come across , as being more honest than anything I have heard coming from the official line.
Maybe we read / hear what we want to.
I was obeying orders comes to mind, lesser known as a full brown nose even better. After all they are my bosses.
Mark Billing
52 Posted 23/04/2008 at 23:39:51
52 Posted 23/04/2008 at 23:39:51
Steve William - the allegation of impropriety concerns the conduct of the vote - the one-sided ’election’ material; the manner in which the count was held; the ’selection’ of eligible voters. The question is fair enough when all facts are presented fairly with nothing with-held and an equal opportunity for both sides to present their case to voters. Did this happen - don’t reply that you think it did!
Jimmy Mc - the JJB is a pile of cack that makes the Lower Gwladys appear palatial. If that’s to be acknowledged as progress, we’re doomed!
Jimmy Mc - the JJB is a pile of cack that makes the Lower Gwladys appear palatial. If that’s to be acknowledged as progress, we’re doomed!
Tony Williams
53 Posted 24/04/2008 at 09:01:42
53 Posted 24/04/2008 at 09:01:42
Mark, whilst the presentation pack was obviously one-sided, which you would expect from EvertonFC I would like to ask who you think should have been eligible to vote and how could EFC could have iimplemented this.
They had deffinite numbers from season ticket holders and share holder, granted there are many fans that probably spend more than season tickets holders, as they choose their games but in the end go to more games than not and spend more money. They pehaps should have more right to vote however how is EFC supposed to know about him and get a vote to them.
Some suggested that EFC should have picked a game and passed out voting slips, what?s to say that particular crowd not being infiltrated by "imposters" to give a false outcome, possibly they could keep which game a secret but unlikely.
As I have said many times before, I feel that giving us the vote was a disgusting idea by BK but I can?t see how they could have picked the numbers any fairer than they did. Yes they sent the ballot out with their propaganda but would you expect anything less?
They had deffinite numbers from season ticket holders and share holder, granted there are many fans that probably spend more than season tickets holders, as they choose their games but in the end go to more games than not and spend more money. They pehaps should have more right to vote however how is EFC supposed to know about him and get a vote to them.
Some suggested that EFC should have picked a game and passed out voting slips, what?s to say that particular crowd not being infiltrated by "imposters" to give a false outcome, possibly they could keep which game a secret but unlikely.
As I have said many times before, I feel that giving us the vote was a disgusting idea by BK but I can?t see how they could have picked the numbers any fairer than they did. Yes they sent the ballot out with their propaganda but would you expect anything less?
Steven William
54 Posted 24/04/2008 at 09:57:45
54 Posted 24/04/2008 at 09:57:45
Mark Billing, I don't understand what you are saying. We all know the vote was dodgey, we all know what lies have been told. All I am saying is that if you don't agree with whats happened and that the club have not been open with the fans, write to them and tell them. It's up to the individual if they don't renew their tickets but that depends on how srongly they feel about the move. I am totally against it and, like I say, have not and will not renew until Kirkby is dropped.
© ToffeeWeb
-sm.jpg)
-sm.jpg)
-sm.jpg)
-sm.jpg)
1 Posted 23/04/2008 at 07:16:38