The Mail Bag
4-5-1, 4-5-1. 4-5-1 PLEASE!!!
Comments (35)
It can't have escaped anyone's notice that the Yak/AJ forward line is no more penetrating or dominating than my nanna and next doors dog playing together - it just hasn't happened for them. I am a touch surprised given AJ's unselfishness; however, when you spend most of your time either defending corners or chasing down the wing after an aimless long ball by one of Neville, Jakielka, Yobo, Hibbert etc (you get the picture), it doesn't leave a great deal of time to create a meaningful and prosprous relationship with your co-striker. Plus when your second touch is a header, it's pretty much a none starter.
Next time they do play together, have a look how often they are both in the box at the same time ? not very often I think is what you will find.
If memory serves:
W 1-0 Derby (awful game)
L 1-0 Fulham (herrendous)
L 1-0 L'pool (herrendous)
D 1-1 B'ham (awful game)
L 1-0 Chelsea (awful game)
These are just a few examples, but all were very very poor performances and strangely enough all 4-4-2 fomations. We don't create chances, we don't link through the midfield ? we simply don't look like a threat.
Sunday is a huge game, I can't stress its importance enough ? we must win, nothing else will do given that we play Arsenal and an in-form newcastle after.
AJ must drop out, with Arteta and Ossi coming back in. I would suggest:
Howard;
Neville, Jagielka, Yobo, Lescott
Arteta, Pienaar, Carsley, Fernandes, Osman
Yakubu
We have played our best football this season playing this way; we break teams down then beat them on the break. 4-4-2 doesn't suit our style, or at least the style that Moyes wants them to play. Against the better teams we get found out.
A lot of people wil say no no, we need to go with two strikers and attack Villa. Well I would say no no ? Villa are playing their best football of the season with style and confidence plus they're scoring for fun (sods law when we aren't), something like 15 or so goals in the last 3, if we attack and it breaks down they have the pace to expose us.
We WILL play better with 4-5-1, it suits the Yak's game too as we play to feet more. 4-4-2 has resulted in long balls which has left Yak clutching at nothing for weeks now and his goal return backs that up.
It's not going to be easy, but there are 9 points left, and I for one want all 9 ? I just don't think it'll happen playing 442. COYB.
Barry Nunt, Posted 24/04/2008 at 23:29:43
Comments
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2 Posted 25/04/2008 at 07:31:21
3 Posted 25/04/2008 at 07:35:02
Here’s my setup against Villa if everyone is fit:
Howard
Neville - Yobo - Jagielka - Lescott
Arteta - Osman - Carsley - Fernandes - Pienaar
Yakubu
Subs: Wessels - Baines - Gosling - Anichebe - Johnson
COYB!
4 Posted 25/04/2008 at 07:39:07
I’d play Arteta and Pienaar on the flanks, Carsley and Fernandes centrally and Osman playing the "Cahill role" albeit a little differently. People have said he can’t play that role but I disagree. He played there in the 4-2 defeat to Man utd last season and for the first hour we where excellent aswell as Chelsea away where Osman played off Vaughan and was excellent.
Someone like Fernandes can bring Osman into the game with his passing and get him on the ball. Osman has the energy to get up and support Yakubu aswell as dropping deep and supporting the midfield.
I just want as many passing footballers on the pitch as possible. The football has been dire of late of some decent joined up stuff could really get Goodison going. The 4-4-2 was tried and hasn’t covered itself in glory and the AJ-Yak partnership doesn’t look promising.
AJ is always an option from the bench and can change games when he comes on he he showed against Portsmouth.
5 Posted 25/04/2008 at 08:44:27
6 Posted 25/04/2008 at 08:58:46
7 Posted 25/04/2008 at 09:14:52
I fully expect Moyes to go 4-4-2 as I don’t think he has worked out that 4-4-2 doesn’t work.
8 Posted 25/04/2008 at 09:24:15
9 Posted 25/04/2008 at 09:30:21
We need to strengthen in the summer mainly across the midfield and add a bit more craft as well as depth and try and play football every week with 5 in midfield, rather than long ball football.. It worked so well at the start of the season and now due to injuries and how small our squad is we have had to change to 4-4-2 which simply hasn't worked.. Let's just hope the board recognise this and make sure we have the right amount of good players for next season!
10 Posted 25/04/2008 at 09:37:21
11 Posted 25/04/2008 at 09:55:28
Is this a record?? 10 replies to an article and not one real argument???
Has this ever happened before on Toffeeweb??? :-)
12 Posted 25/04/2008 at 10:34:00
If we had a midfield capable of passing the ball or supplying a ball through or a decent cross then we would have two strikers capable of scoring goals unfortunatly we have had either Cars & Neville in midfield, an unfit or off form Mikel & Manny wide left???
We could have fucking Van Basten & Romario up top & they would look shit with no service.
13 Posted 25/04/2008 at 10:39:55
14 Posted 25/04/2008 at 10:37:10
a)DONT GET BEAT - We all know this game is massive, so will DM stick pip & cars in midfield, 3 centre halves in defence, drop AJ for either ossie or arteta & hope we dont concede whilst hoping we nick one on the break, or....
b) PLAY POSITIVE & TRY TO WIN GAME -
GK - Howard
RB - Neville/Hibbert (Both as bad as each other)
LB - Baines
CB - Yobo
CB - Lescott
RM - Pienaar
LM - Arteta
CM - Carsley
CM - Fernandes
CF - Yakubu
CF - AJ
SUBS - Wessels, Jagielka, Neville/Hibbert, Osman, Anichebe
Lets try an regain a bit of our mid-season form, play a bit & but Villa under pressure & show them we are no Derby or Brum who will fucking roll over for them.
15 Posted 25/04/2008 at 10:53:26
The bottom line is you can have as many formations as an Air Display but unless the players perform, then you’ll never win a game.
It is this that has caused us so many problems of late; the injuries have taken everyone’s focus and let the fit, but under-performing players off the hook.
Regardless of what formation is played, the players will need to be on top of their game to get the result we need. If they aren’t then we’ll get rolled over.
16 Posted 25/04/2008 at 11:03:38
A hands on hip glower at the team mate might produce a better service.
Then again, perhaps AJ actually prefers to chase after hopeless balls.
17 Posted 25/04/2008 at 12:10:17
Howard
Neville Lescott Yobo Baines
Arteta Fernandes Carsley Osman Pienaar
Yak
It would be hard on Jags but with Villa's pace in wide positions I think Baines has the be the man at LB
It's a massive game and nothing other than win is good enough. I'm nervous already!
18 Posted 25/04/2008 at 12:09:56
I think AJ is a great player but I don't understand why he gives the thumbs up every single time someone plays a hopeless ball for him to chase. The first few times is understandable but not now it's gone on this long!!
I don't think Phil Neville is as bad as some of the criticism he's received on here recently but he's the main offender of this and it's like when you have the div kid at school and you don't want to put him down when he does something wrong for the 100th time so you just give him the thumbs up!!!
19 Posted 25/04/2008 at 11:51:30
I think a lot depends on Fernandes as well, he?ll need to get on the ball and control the game and thus prevent Barry from doing the same for Villa. But Moyes will have to play him centrally to do this. If we can play with the right energy levels we?ll get the result we want, but that seems to have gone from our game in recent weeks so I?m a bit concerned to be honest about our chances.
20 Posted 25/04/2008 at 12:20:02
I agree 4-5-1 is the way forward, but we’re counting on Pienaar and Arteta to be fit to have enough midfielders to even think about that. You can’t blame Moyes for playing Johnson with the amount of injuries to midfielders recently.
21 Posted 25/04/2008 at 13:00:11
22 Posted 25/04/2008 at 13:13:21
With regards to the formation, 4-5-1 suits us simply because Carsley cannot play effectively in a 4-4-2 but unfortunately due to the injury list we are having problems just getting a 4 man midfield with Pip in it let alone 5
23 Posted 25/04/2008 at 13:12:53
I totally agree that we HAVE to play 4-5-1 on sunday to have a chance of winning and keeping the very important 5th position. Also I would like to add that Baines should start at LB, he will give us the pace and quality down the left, with Jagielka and Lescott in the centre. I seriously think Baines is an absolute gem and will show his pure skill next season!
COYB
24 Posted 25/04/2008 at 13:59:29
25 Posted 25/04/2008 at 15:04:12
In 3 of those Neville & Jags played in centre mid, in another 6 it was Neville & Cars in the middle.
The only exception being away at Fulham when we started the game with only Carsley as a holding CM, although hibbert came on for Cahill after 10 mins and Neville went back into midfield.
Common theme is that 2 holding CM’s is not a safety net but a liability, anyone know how we can get these stats to DM buy Sunday?
26 Posted 25/04/2008 at 15:43:05
I think he will go back to 4-5-1. He hasn’t been able to play it recently due to the distinct lack of fit midfielders. With Carsley holding we then have Arteta, Osman, Fernandes and Pienaar feeding the Yak. Maybe we will manage to muster a shot on goal on Sunday!
Also agree that Baines should be in to deal with Agbonlahor’s pace. He’s a good player, it’s not his fault the rest of our team are midgets!
27 Posted 25/04/2008 at 16:11:08
I?ve seen 4-5-1 work well with Cahill supporting the lone striker. Despite reservations, I even saw 4-4-2 to work reasonably well with Tiny (even if he was less effective). However, I?ve seen 4-5-1 and 4-4-2 not work at all when our midfield has been injury-ravaged or tired, has been set up too defensively, or gets by-passed completely by hoofball from defence.
By nature I?m a 4-4-2 fan and I still harbour hopes of AJ and the Yak being the ultimate striking partnership. In the absence of Tiny I think that is even more the case. But for tomorrow?s game we can?t afford to be out muscled or out-numbered in midfield - especially against an in-form Villa team. So I think it?s 4-5-1 for me as well for once - Ideally:
Howard
Neville, Jags, Yobo, Lescott
Arteta, Ossie, Fernandes, Carsley, Peanuts
Yak
With Baines and AJ the options if things don??t go right. I think Baines is the future on the left, but I think that?s a 2008-09 season project, and with a 5-man midfileld, Lescott?s more solid. However, I wouldn?t particularly disagree with those who think Baines should be in at the expense of Jags. I think our midfield is where we?ll win or lose it on Sunday
I want the team to play with the passion and urgency they showed against Florentina - this is our cup final!
If I see Neville in midfield and Hibbo at Right Back when Davey announces the team - I?ll be very disappointed. If one of the midfield fail a fitness test, I?d rather revert to 4-4-2 with AJ, because Nev and Cars in midfield gives us a 5-4-1 formation!
28 Posted 25/04/2008 at 17:24:09
29 Posted 25/04/2008 at 17:52:12
30 Posted 25/04/2008 at 19:03:27
I doesn’t work if Carsley and Neville play behind Osman because there not able to give it to Osman in dangerous areas and there not positive enough. Someone like Fernandes who passes from deep most of the time would be able to bring Osman into the game with his passing aswell as the likes of Pienaar and Arteta.
The 4-4-2 system has rarely looked good this season. We just don’t have the legs in midfield to compete and we fail to keep the ball most of the time. The inclusion of AJ in the team also seems to be a negative. The defenders just revert to booting the ball into the flanks when there under the slightest bit of pressure.
Yakubu is also alot better as the loan striker. I haven’t seen him look the part in a 2 man partnership yet. He needs midfielders supporting him and running off him and he gets that in a five man midfield. AJ just seems to run away from him and there never in tandem.
4-5-1 is a very positive formation if used correctly with the right personel. Its very interchangeble. It can be 4-4-2, 4-5-1, 4-4-1-1, 4-3-3 etc. There lots of movement and having players like Arteta, Fernandes, Pienaar and Osman means we can mix and matc and find the best combinations to hurt Villa. There won’t be a lack of support to the Yak. At home we should have more of the ball and players with superb energy like Osman and Pienaar are always likely to get up and down.
31 Posted 25/04/2008 at 19:48:00
32 Posted 25/04/2008 at 20:14:06
33 Posted 25/04/2008 at 21:23:43
34 Posted 26/04/2008 at 00:19:05
Howard
Nev/Hibbo(what's the difference?)
Yobo, Lescott, Valente
Pienaar, Fernandes, Carsley, Baines
Yakubu, Johnson
In with Osman for AJ if fit
Arteta sub if possible. He has not trained for 3 weeks along with Wessels, Gosling (if fit), Rodwell, Anichebe, Nev/Hibbo.
With this 11, we could pass and possibly even retain possesion a lot more effectivley than we have done recently. Lescott will have Carew in his pocket. We do not need the "stature" wich DM claimed that we have required lately.
I hope we don´t need to make any substitutions:
I will see the game in the pub here in Sweden with a couple of fellow cronies and an AV supporter. The last time we watched EFC v AV together, Paul Merson scored with a shot from 40/50 yards. My AV freind couldn't believe either but was happy over the very sweet tasting beer I was forced to buy him.
It´s my turn in Sunday.
35 Posted 26/04/2008 at 08:49:18
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1 Posted 25/04/2008 at 04:04:41
You may *wish* we played 4-4-2 well ... but in reality we just do not. Someone recently broke down our points total with Cahill and without (the "with Cahill" option being way better). Well that?s also something of a points total for 4-5-1 as well. Even though we don?t have him now it?s still our best bet -- we?ve looked utterly lost in 4-4-2 and we?ll need to control the midfield against an in-form Villa.
Assuming they?re all healthy I think:
Howard;
Neville, Jagielka, Yobo, Lescott
Arteta, Pienaar, Carsley, Fernandes, Osman
Yakubu
is the best option.