The Mail Bag
Another chance next season?
Comments (35)
Yesterday's drawn game against Aston Villa must surely have proven to even the most staunch Moyes supporters that Davey Boy just isn't a winner when it comes to these big crunch games. Another big-time match and we are found wanting. Still Moyes is learning all the time, isn't he?
Having said that, we have played 15 games more than Villa this season and in the end our season has been killed stone dead by all the extra games we played this year.
I was ridiculed on this site earlier in the season when I suggested we would have been better off getting knocked out of the Carling Cup and the Uefa Cup in the early rounds and concentrated on a 4th place finish, but some of you just would not have it one bit. We can win 'em all, you said.
Even with the massive squads the big 4 have at their disposal they still understand that it's impossible to win all the competitions they have to play in and they cut their cloth accordingly. Sacrifices are made somewhere along the line and the domestic cups are now no more than reserve team runouts. Don't believe me? Then take a look at this year's FA Cup.
The treble that Man Utd achieved in 1999 was a one-off and will never be seen again in our life times, that's for sure. Even a club as big as Man Utd are probably thanking Pompey for knocking them out of the FA Cup a few months ago. The FA Cup being 3rd on the list of things to win, the Carling Cup is not even thought about and is treated with contempt by the real big clubs.
What I am saying is with a squad as tiny as Everton's we need to prioritise which competion means the most to us and go all out for it. For me that's getting in to the top 4 and getting on board the Champions League gravy train. Never mind farting about in Norway in the middle of January for little or no reward. We will never break in to the top 4 with our resources if we are playing every Thursday in the middle of Russia or the arse end of Poland then being asked to fly down to London on Saturday morning to play again on the Sunday. We just can't hack it. I hope Villa do take 5th and we miss out on the poxy Uefa Cup next season and here is my reason why.
Let's assume for a moment that the troubles across the park will rumble on through the summer and no funds are made available to the manager thus creating havoc (please, God, make it happen). This could well leave the door slightly open for one of the clubs below Liverpool to gate crash the party, i.e. Everton.
Now, if we are involved in the Uefa Cup again along with the 2 domestic cups and the Premier League then next season will follow the same path as this one, no question. It will fizzle out about February again because we are knackered. We need to streamline the amount of games we play to capitalise on any fuck-ups over at Anfield. Do you get the picture?
It's all well and good boosting our Uefa Cup profile with big wins against shite teams in European backwaters but it doesn't put food on the table does it? The Uefa Cup doesn't enable us to progress in a financial sense. All it does is put a strain on the team.
Unless we get a rich crooked foriegn investor or a Billionare Yank to come on board then a share of the Champions League honeypot is the only way this club can progress. We have to realise that surrendering the cups will be beneficial in the long term. Next season may well be our very last chance to achieve this goal. Does anyone reckon we would've ran out of gas in the League and folded so easily the way we have this season if we hadn't gone so far in the Carling or Uefa Cups?
Let's face it, we couldn't cope with all the games that came our way and instead of achieving anything of note we end up with nothing but heartache and despair. We where 5 points clear of the RS at one point this season and a combination of fatigue and Moyes losing his bottle did for us in the end.
To me, finishing 5th or 6th gives us nothing as a club other than being able to say... well it's better now than when Wally Smith was here.
Tony Marsh, Posted 28/04/2008 at 17:32:12
Comments
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1 Posted 29/04/2008 at 03:49:06
Spurs won a trophy this year and we didn’t. I would rather have a trophy than 4th spot. we had 4th a few years ago and a lot of good it did us. You have a loser attitude.
2 Posted 29/04/2008 at 04:43:29
I believe a lot of fans (including yourself Tony) would relate more to us winning a trophy. We have a picture of us winning the FA Cup in 1995. We have a table showing we became 4th best team in 2008 (say). 3rd runner-up in the Premier League. True, Champions League football should be an ambition for a club as Everton, however sadly I don’t believe we will ever be closer to winning the Premiership or European Cup (isn’t this why we try for the Champions League honeypot? NSNO?) by achieving 4th. The Carling, FA and UEFA are the only realistic end products for us, due in part that the top4 are not interested (or not playing in terms of UEFA). It’s actually sad.
Lyndon Lloyd summed up nicely our season.
3 Posted 29/04/2008 at 06:42:48
Lyndon?s response was spot on.
4 Posted 29/04/2008 at 07:24:35
You rubbish the Uefa Cup - yeah crap competition with crap teams like Bayern Munich, Zenit St. Petersburg, Fiorentina to name but 3 not so crap teams but rather good ones. Don?t you think our players benefitted from playing against the likes of the last two of those teams I mentioned ?
Man Utd thanking Pompey for knocking them out of the FA Cup? Blimey, what are you on!?! It?s not the Uefa Cup that full of crap - it?s you. You moan if we finish below a European place - but then you would moan if we did because we would be playing meaningless games!!!
Try reality Tony - the real world - try beaming down from planet wherever it is you inhabit to join us in the real world. It?s money ? the fact that the so called big 4 have loads more of it than the rest of the Premier League ? gives them quite an advantage over all the other clubs. That?s the main reason we have run out of steam ? we don?t yet have the resources to match Chelsea, Arsenal Man Utd, Liverpool.
Moyes is doing a good job - without the same finances the only way to challenge for a top 4 place is by signing good young players at reasonable fees and developing our own talent. But that takes time ? and we must be patient. We have a long way to go ? but let's not forget how far we have come in the last few years.
5 Posted 29/04/2008 at 07:49:48
6 Posted 29/04/2008 at 07:57:14
To my mind, we just need more good players to compete better on all fronts. Being in Europe (esp. the CL) helps attract those players and give us the increased profile and finances to keep progressing on and off the pitch.
Basically, you are wrong and shame on you for wishing us to sacrifice our best chances of winning trophies...FFS!
7 Posted 29/04/2008 at 08:13:34
The simple reason our season has imploded is the loss of Cahill. Don’t believe me? Just look at our record with him and without him this season. It speaks volumes.
You contradict yourself at every turn Tony. Earlier in the season you were moaning about the weakened team we fielded against Oldham and the chance we threw away to win the FA Cup. Now you are saying we should sacrifice the cups to concentrate on the league?
8 Posted 29/04/2008 at 08:07:56
If Everton can not make the Champions League slots next season and its a very very big ask then that's it for us as a club. I don't give a shit at the moment how good or bad anyone thinks Moyes is as he is all we have got. If EFC fall any farther behind England's elite clubs in a financial sense then we will never ever catch them up. Kenwright's not selling so forget about a sugar daddy so where will the neccasary funds come from unless its the Champions League??? Like I say, winning trophies now comes second best to CL qualification wether you like to hear it or not. What do think would of been more beneficial to EFC a Carling Cup final win or a 4th place finish. In my book its a no-brainer.
9 Posted 29/04/2008 at 08:45:35
We?ve shown that on the whole we can competete in the League aswell as having a few decent cup runs. To play a lot of games with a relatively small squad is good progress in my opinion.
Isn?t it a positive that where better than we where when Smith was here? I?d say it is. That's progress.
The Uefa Cup is good for us. Yes its tests our squad to the hilt and yes it isn?t a big money maker but it improves us as a team and gives us vital European experience. We're learning to play a slower more European game and that is something all the big boys do. They dicate the pace of games and know when to speed up and slow down. Compare us in the Metalist games to the Fiorentina. Again progress in my opinion.
Next season will be interesting. It will truly show where Moyes can take us. We?ll have had some stability with two years of Uefa Cup football and we now need to be kicking on. Looking at that "top four" and looking to wing silverware. Signings in the summer will be key. Will Moyes buy the quality needed and will he replace his favorites?
10 Posted 29/04/2008 at 09:10:06
11 Posted 29/04/2008 at 09:12:22
Simple really...the more wins you have in recent European competetitions the higher your co-efficient is when /if you do eventually break into the top 4. This co-efficient determines whether, in the qualifying stage, you end up drawing a seeded team like Villareal or some real minnow like TNS. If you remeber the season we finished 4th that was the difference between us and the RS... what do you think the outcome would have been if the oppositions had been switched?
Winning games in Europe..in the form of even the lesser Uefa Cup is VITAL to building momentum for the future.
12 Posted 29/04/2008 at 09:44:38
If you look a bit deeper we are actually building which in itself is progress for this club considering what has gone on in the past.
We are creating a platform, albeit maybe not as quickly as many would like, but at least now we seem able to hold on to players which is a prerequisite for further building.
In the end we all have to accept that the size and quality of the squad we assemble will ultimately decide our ability to progress in both league and cups.
Dont give up Tony things may not be perfect but the momentum is forward, if not fast forward.
13 Posted 29/04/2008 at 09:48:24
With regard to the players being knackered I think its a mental toughness rather than physical, with the exception of Cahill & Vaughan most have suffer more from the blow of losing the shootout, I certainly don?t remember too many grumbles about injuries when we were still in it!
On another note lets not forget that some of our key players were also involved in AFCON ? add to that riduculous ref decisions and it could have been very different.
14 Posted 29/04/2008 at 10:03:01
Given that we have a small squad and limited funds, if you were DM what would you prioritise :-
+ FA Cup - Our last trophy & still huge charm and TV exposure. A tough one to get through given that top teams still want to win it. UEFA cup spot.
+ Carling Cup - Poor man?s FA Cup but easier to win as there are less rounds and some top teams play reserves. UEFA cup spot.
+ UEFA Cup - Good European exposure, players/fans seem to enjoy it, good experience for future UCL (hopefully) but small prize money.
+ EPL - Our bread n butter and far higher prize money per place than UEFA etc. Could lead to UCL.
Basically it is not an easy choice for a financially constrained club like us.
15 Posted 29/04/2008 at 11:13:01
Bearing in mind we have been in the doldrums for the last 20 years I don?t think next year is our crunch year as I personally believe that Moyes will continue the rebuilding process.
16 Posted 29/04/2008 at 12:00:19
Patience is what?s needed ? clearly something you haven?t got ? but in the future (say the next 5-10 years) when we are regularly in Europe we shall all be laughing at you.
17 Posted 29/04/2008 at 12:25:00
For your info, the Uefa Cup did a number of positive things for EFC - it raised the profile of the club across Europe (helps to attract players and potentially investors), it definitely improved players who will have learned from their experience, and finally and most importantly to me it was a fuckin brilliant experience for us fans despite the crap in Florence.
Yes, we do need a bigger squad with more quality; yes, we need serious investment and a new stadium but we know all this. Continually whining about the same old things doesn?t help you or anyone.
I have supported the blues through thick and thin all my 53 yrs and I do not want to return to scrapping against relegation. So I will be delighted to finish 5th and go into the poxy Uefa Cup thanks very much. And no I am not happy to settle for mediocrity ? I want to win trophies and get back in the elite ? but the building blocks must be in place first and they are not ... yet. I don?t support Davy Moyes blindly ? I support him because he does great job with what he has.
You are entitled to voice your opinion, Tony, it's just not very bright though is it?
18 Posted 29/04/2008 at 12:50:44
19 Posted 29/04/2008 at 12:53:57
Anway is anyone else confused as to why Lescott didnt even get a look in for the pfa team of the season??! Easily the best defender in the prem this season but obviously its more important as to what team you play for rather than how well you actually play.
20 Posted 29/04/2008 at 12:59:53
21 Posted 29/04/2008 at 13:03:46
22 Posted 29/04/2008 at 13:27:52
Tony you have contradicted yourself within the first two paragraphs bcaused it was apparantly Moyes?s fault...............but it could have been the extra 15 games we have played.
I would like to point out the must win games against Man City and Portsmouth where Moyes bottled it there too!!
Apart from you initial finger of blame at Moyes it was a more placid Marsh post with a few well put points but it is clear that the majority will disagree with you with regards to the Uefa Cup and as Lyndon said you were one of the first to lambast Moyes with his line up and tactics against Oldham.
23 Posted 29/04/2008 at 13:28:04
People are having a go at me here but you just don't get it. If we carry on the way we have been doing the past 6 years Uefa Cup included then we are fucked.
Every season the pay out from the CL to the qualifiers gets bigger and bigger. The longer we are out of it the more imposible it will become to ever make it. Why is this so hard to grasp with you dreamers.
If you cant see where football is heading and how the big 4 and the powers that be are now controlling things then you are not watching the same sport as me. Like always with a large number of the Everton fan base, its a question of let's wait another few years and see what happens, By then it will be too late.
FFS get a grip of yourselves, wake up and smell the coffee. It's shit or bust time in the next 2 years or so and those who want to linger around and get nowhere for another 6 years make me laugh.
It's now or never boys and all the trips to Florence or Nuremberg won't help us once we have missed the boat. We will be forever on the outside looking in. WHY CAN'T YOU SEE IT????
24 Posted 29/04/2008 at 13:53:12
That's why I had a go back then. Why give up the FA Cup tie against Oldham only to shit out at Chelsea? Not to hard to grasp mate is it??
25 Posted 29/04/2008 at 14:36:39
26 Posted 29/04/2008 at 14:46:40
What, so if we stuck on the same formula as the 6 previous we’d be.........in CL laden with domestic trophies??
You then ask why we gave up the FA cup to ’roll over’ against Chelsea yet your original post bemoans playing cup games as it has detracted from our league campaign????
You are pissing on your own points now you dozy get!!!
27 Posted 29/04/2008 at 15:28:36
Never seen so much shite written in my life. Chelsea reserves? Do you remember our midfield Tony? Johnson on the right wing, McFadden on the left wing with Cahill, Carsley and Neville playing centrally. We where missing three key midfielders in Osman, Arteta and Pienaar who at the time had been very influential.
I don’t remember us trying to defend a 1-1. When Jon Obi Mikel got sent off we scored and we where in control. They scored because Lescott made a mistake not Moyes. Mistakes can happen you know. Its football and it happens.
28 Posted 29/04/2008 at 15:54:50
29 Posted 29/04/2008 at 15:56:39
You have mentioned the need for champions league football ,well Tony playing in the UEFA cup is a good learning curve if we do make it to the big league, and lets face it we are a little bit more experienced now than when we got into the preliminarys last time and this is down to the experience of this season in Europe, although Fiorentina away showed our Managers inexperience which will only change with more games in Europe.
30 Posted 29/04/2008 at 18:12:20
31 Posted 29/04/2008 at 23:13:30
Tony, you should not be saying we need to focus on 4th and sod everything else. We should all be questioning the board’s commitment to us winning a trophy and trying to finish 4th by actually finding some investment.
32 Posted 29/04/2008 at 23:12:24
But there is one massive chance for us right now. And that’s for Moyes to be honest with himself and know his limitations and bring in a quality coach who could help the team play better football and help the team play an improved tactical game. Somehow I don’t think he’d like an assistant who could show him up.
33 Posted 30/04/2008 at 08:55:46
34 Posted 30/04/2008 at 10:21:28
In actual fact the esteemed editor of this website recently posted a fans article by Mr Marsh under the name John Campbell. I was therefore taking the michael.
You are quite right however in that there is no more negative soul (except for Mr Campbell) than Mr Marsh although i am sure he means well.
35 Posted 30/04/2008 at 10:40:17
The only chance we had of finishing 4th was no injuries or suspensions and continued poor form from Liverpool.
The cup runs have increased our profile ? according to the people I work with around UK & Europe and probably the European-based players we need to buy in order to progress.
I would rather see our squad strengthened so we can realistically maintain 5th spot and mount a realistic challenge for the top 4. I would much rather see us win a trophy than get humiliated in the Champions League again.
Our current squad is the best we?ve had for years. It is over-reliant on Cahill and Arteta and short on quality, physical strength and leadership.
Regardless of where we finish, Moyes needs to spend the summer looking for leaders on the pitch. That?s what?s going to get us through the crunch games.


There's a few things here that bother me, Tony, not just your 20-20 hindsight vision!
Firstly, the prospect of finishing in the top 4 didn't really look to be a firm proposition until we jumped into the CL-qualifying places in late January. By that time we were out of the FA Cup ? and was Moyes's decision to rest some key players, in line with your argument here, so that he could keep them fresh not the central reason why were knocked out by Oldham that day? ? and on our way out of the Carling Cup.
If, as was prudent, it was Moyes's belief that the top four was probably beyond his team's resources no matter how few competitions they were involved in and that our club record-breaking run in the Uefa Cup was indicative of a good chance of going all the way to Manchester, then who could argue with his desire to put his energies in there? Or was he supposed to throw the towel in in that competition to concentrate on the League?
It's all very well saying now that we should have chosen which competitions on which to concentrate but I'm confident you would have been the first the lambast Moyes for such a strategy. Indeed, I recall you ripped him a new one for not going all out for victory against Chelsea in the semi-final.
Secondly, our form only really collapsed after we got knocked out by Fiorentina, in my opinion a psychological reaction on the part of the players similar to 2005 after the Villarreal heartbreak and the fiasco in Bucharest. Momentum breeds confidence breeds consistent form, something both the top teams and Everton know all about ? witness the run of results in late 2004 and again before Christmas this season that propelled us into the Champions League places in the first place ? and I honestly don't believe we would have fallen away as badly as we have if we'd stayed in the Uefa Cup a round or two longer.
Yes, Moyes has been found wanting when it comes to pulling his players out of their collective malaise when they've suffered an agonising exit from the stage on which they all want to play: Europe; yes, his decisions are still sometimes baffling ? but they're becoming rarer and rarer ? yes, he remains loyal to certain players who lack the quality we need; and, yes, he is still learning (again, witness the increasing maturity with which they approached games as the Uefa Cup campaign wore on). I still believe, though, that he is the best manager we can hope for and that our biggest obstacle now is lack of real money.
For me, the real opportunity to have a real go at finishing fourth this season was passed up in January when we should have strengthened the team in key areas. This time, however, it seems that it was Robert Earl, who apparently has the final say on sanctioning player purchases at the moment, and not Davey's dithering that stopped us from doing so.