The Mail Bag
80s throwback
Comments (15)
I was thinking today over lunch about our team and I was trying to figure out if we are a good team that aren't playing at our best or if we're a mediocre team that is no longer playing above our best. I started analysing the players strenghths and weaknesses and comparing them with old players. The comparisons I came up with all happened to be from the same era when we were equally mediocre which I guess says it all but here goes.....
Yakubu: The new Cottee. Scores 3 when 1 would do but is nowhere to be found when we just need 1!
Pienaar: The new Warzycha. Brilliant .... until we signed him on a permanet deal.
Arteta: Beagrie. Skillful ...but all too inconsistent.
Johnson: Pat Nevin. Some say he should be a striker and some say a winger. Seems to have quality but somehow just can't fit into the team effectively.
Neville: Neil McDonald anyone? Good right back until we used him in every position and messed his head up.
I could go on but you get the idea...
Kieran Kinsella, Posted 29/04/2008 at 00:01:59
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Derek Thomas
2 Posted 29/04/2008 at 06:32:17
2 Posted 29/04/2008 at 06:32:17
By comparing the present day to past, at best, Average players, you answered your own question.
Mediocre who played above themselves. There is 3rd from top and 3rd from Bottom, then all those in the middle. It’s just that now the middle is the largest part of the Prem.
PS don’t expect anything to change, the 2 Top teams in the CCC will do a Derby. Any body who draws or loses that many games to Championship teams is, baring a miracle or another current Prem team imploding, going nowhere but back down.
Mediocre who played above themselves. There is 3rd from top and 3rd from Bottom, then all those in the middle. It’s just that now the middle is the largest part of the Prem.
PS don’t expect anything to change, the 2 Top teams in the CCC will do a Derby. Any body who draws or loses that many games to Championship teams is, baring a miracle or another current Prem team imploding, going nowhere but back down.
Peter Corcoran
3 Posted 29/04/2008 at 06:38:59
3 Posted 29/04/2008 at 06:38:59
You must be drunk! Too much ale over lunch!
Connor Rohrer
4 Posted 29/04/2008 at 07:28:48
4 Posted 29/04/2008 at 07:28:48
Yakubu is a far better player than Cottee ever was. Cottee was a poacher whereas Yakubu has a lot more to his game and gets a lot more done outside the box.
The run in the first half summed it up for me. Out paced and out strengthened Reo-coker who?s a strong boy, cut inside and rifled a long ranger. Just showed me the true qualities he really has.
He?s showed tremendous consistency this season and is obviously going through a little sticky patch. Stick with him, feed him and the goals will come.
The run in the first half summed it up for me. Out paced and out strengthened Reo-coker who?s a strong boy, cut inside and rifled a long ranger. Just showed me the true qualities he really has.
He?s showed tremendous consistency this season and is obviously going through a little sticky patch. Stick with him, feed him and the goals will come.
Jason Lam
5 Posted 29/04/2008 at 08:17:01
5 Posted 29/04/2008 at 08:17:01
The fact you can’t compare any of today’s players with those from 1984-1987 including subs sums it up really! We should create a new thread titled, "90s throwback" to cheer us up.
Tony Williams
6 Posted 29/04/2008 at 08:55:04
6 Posted 29/04/2008 at 08:55:04
A bit harsh on Pienaar aren’t you, it was his first games since signing so how can you even begin to compare him to Bob the Pole
Steve Lyth
7 Posted 29/04/2008 at 09:36:36
7 Posted 29/04/2008 at 09:36:36
You know I was thinking how good is the present squad when compared to the champions we had in the 80s: with the exception of Cahill and Lescott, I dont think many others would have had a shout at a first team place. I thought Nevin was great when he was on his game.
Danny Bean
8 Posted 29/04/2008 at 09:34:53
8 Posted 29/04/2008 at 09:34:53
Why nitpick, we have had a fantastic season.
Yes we have struggled a bit lately but everyone has a bad patch yes we need to strengthen the midfield .
But just remember the likes of Tiler, Tony Thomas and Angell, then realise what a great job Moysie has done.
Yes we have struggled a bit lately but everyone has a bad patch yes we need to strengthen the midfield .
But just remember the likes of Tiler, Tony Thomas and Angell, then realise what a great job Moysie has done.
Dave Whitwell
9 Posted 29/04/2008 at 09:28:33
9 Posted 29/04/2008 at 09:28:33
OK we keep blasting our midfield saying that it is not good enough, but you simply have to look through our team selections during the good phases of this season and the bad to realise that our first team when fit has an excellent midfield.
When we play 451 with only 1 holding midfield player I don’t believe we have lost or even drawn that many, which suggest the players are more than capable, before people start saying yeah but they can’t play in a 442, Man U, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal, Villa, Man City, Portsmouth all now tend to play a 451 more often than not, I think Spurs are one of the few who generally play 442, does that mean there midfielders aren’t good enough.
Lastly all the games we have lost this season, certainly in the premier league have been when playing 451 with 2 holding midfield players.
So in summary, we have a very capable midfield, what we need to be able to do is strengthen to allow sufficient cover for the 4 creative players in midfield, I believe the current pool of those is from:
Pienaar, Osman, Fernandes, Arteta, Cahill.
That means a choice of 4 from 5 hence we struggle with injuries, if we could retain all of those and add say Arshavin & Kallstrom (or players of a similar quality) then I think we will be well set for next year.
When we play 451 with only 1 holding midfield player I don’t believe we have lost or even drawn that many, which suggest the players are more than capable, before people start saying yeah but they can’t play in a 442, Man U, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal, Villa, Man City, Portsmouth all now tend to play a 451 more often than not, I think Spurs are one of the few who generally play 442, does that mean there midfielders aren’t good enough.
Lastly all the games we have lost this season, certainly in the premier league have been when playing 451 with 2 holding midfield players.
So in summary, we have a very capable midfield, what we need to be able to do is strengthen to allow sufficient cover for the 4 creative players in midfield, I believe the current pool of those is from:
Pienaar, Osman, Fernandes, Arteta, Cahill.
That means a choice of 4 from 5 hence we struggle with injuries, if we could retain all of those and add say Arshavin & Kallstrom (or players of a similar quality) then I think we will be well set for next year.
Paul Williams
10 Posted 29/04/2008 at 09:54:50
10 Posted 29/04/2008 at 09:54:50
FFS!!!! What complete and utter tripe this article is. If Yakubu is ?nowhere to be found? why has he scored 19 this season? Also, I for one would not be happy if 1 would do, we might aswell have kept hold of Joe Max-Moore if we wanted a striker to do that.
You are having a go at some of our most effective players here, Pienaar and Arteta, although Arteta has been a shadow of his old self he still was quality up until Christmas.
Everyone is entitled to there opinion, but stuff like this just winds me up, what exactly is the point of this article? The season isn?t even over and you are pratically labelling the team as a failure, we still have two games left so let's stop the moaning and finger pointing and get behind the team.
COYB
You are having a go at some of our most effective players here, Pienaar and Arteta, although Arteta has been a shadow of his old self he still was quality up until Christmas.
Everyone is entitled to there opinion, but stuff like this just winds me up, what exactly is the point of this article? The season isn?t even over and you are pratically labelling the team as a failure, we still have two games left so let's stop the moaning and finger pointing and get behind the team.
COYB
Richard Parker
11 Posted 29/04/2008 at 12:26:52
11 Posted 29/04/2008 at 12:26:52
I don’t agree totally with this post, but I think there is a certain truth to it.
The reason why 451 works so much better for us than 442, is because we have some really one-dimensional midfielders. Carsley can sit deep and break up opposition attacks but can’t pass, Ossie is decent with the ball at his feet facing their goal but can’t tackle, Arteta and Pienaar are tricky, skillful players but need to add a consistent end-product to their nice touches, Cahill scores a lot and puts himself about, but has little impact on the flow of games other than his goals.
With 5 across the middle, Moyes can blend the one-dimensional players to complement each other, into something which resembles a true midfield. We played some lovely football this year, but once Arteta’s form dipped and Peanuts was injured and Cahill got injured, etc, etc. Who can complement the remaining players?
I want to cry each time I see Pip’s name in midfield, he and Carsley are the same player. Then you put in a half fit Arteta, Pienaar and Ossie, there’s 3 of the same. So suddenly the 5 man midfield has no balance. We’re playing a totally rigid 4231, with no width and no movement.
We’ve got a decent core of players, when all are fit we can play good football. But 2 or 3 good midfielders this summer are vital. A bigger Carsley that can pass, a Fernandes who can impose himself and a flying winger. If we don’t get at least 2 of those 3, then next year will be more of the same. Progress is vital next season, if we stand still we’ll be looking at the arses of Spurs, Portsmouth, Villa and potentially Man City. That will put us around 9th.
The reason why 451 works so much better for us than 442, is because we have some really one-dimensional midfielders. Carsley can sit deep and break up opposition attacks but can’t pass, Ossie is decent with the ball at his feet facing their goal but can’t tackle, Arteta and Pienaar are tricky, skillful players but need to add a consistent end-product to their nice touches, Cahill scores a lot and puts himself about, but has little impact on the flow of games other than his goals.
With 5 across the middle, Moyes can blend the one-dimensional players to complement each other, into something which resembles a true midfield. We played some lovely football this year, but once Arteta’s form dipped and Peanuts was injured and Cahill got injured, etc, etc. Who can complement the remaining players?
I want to cry each time I see Pip’s name in midfield, he and Carsley are the same player. Then you put in a half fit Arteta, Pienaar and Ossie, there’s 3 of the same. So suddenly the 5 man midfield has no balance. We’re playing a totally rigid 4231, with no width and no movement.
We’ve got a decent core of players, when all are fit we can play good football. But 2 or 3 good midfielders this summer are vital. A bigger Carsley that can pass, a Fernandes who can impose himself and a flying winger. If we don’t get at least 2 of those 3, then next year will be more of the same. Progress is vital next season, if we stand still we’ll be looking at the arses of Spurs, Portsmouth, Villa and potentially Man City. That will put us around 9th.
Chris Perry
12 Posted 29/04/2008 at 12:30:07
12 Posted 29/04/2008 at 12:30:07
Aaaaaggghhh!!!
I am seriously concerned about some of the comments here regarding how well we have done, what we have achieved etc etc. The squad is not good, we play hoofball... Neville, Osman, Hibbert, Carsley, Johnson are NOT good enough; we need to get rid.
I am seriously concerned about some of the comments here regarding how well we have done, what we have achieved etc etc. The squad is not good, we play hoofball... Neville, Osman, Hibbert, Carsley, Johnson are NOT good enough; we need to get rid.
John Lloyd
13 Posted 29/04/2008 at 13:13:29
13 Posted 29/04/2008 at 13:13:29
Arteta = Beagrie???
Stupidly I just assumed that people who commented on football had actually watched it!
Bad shout lid
Stupidly I just assumed that people who commented on football had actually watched it!
Bad shout lid
Craig Taylor
14 Posted 29/04/2008 at 14:45:50
14 Posted 29/04/2008 at 14:45:50
Think that should be 90’s throwback with those players.
Micky Norman
15 Posted 29/04/2008 at 16:55:43
15 Posted 29/04/2008 at 16:55:43
Since Yakubu started "working hard for the team" (ie since his bollocking about ACON lateness) he’s stopped scoring. Just an observation here but can anyone explain it? is it just down to missing Cahill or does his work rate detract from his scoring?
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1 Posted 29/04/2008 at 06:23:18
But I will add that I?m a little worried...... I?m not referring to the race for 5th (that?s got me terrified and up late at night!) but I?m worried about our midfield.... no surprise there.
But what exactly is Moyes to do.... up to a few weeks ago we were performing brilliantly (no question), the infamous PK game was simply brilliant to watch, our midfield on paper is strong.... and it?s done well for parts of this season... as long as Neville isn?t there.
Even without Cahill there, Sunday's game wasn?t too bad.... but in the long run and if we really want to compete all the way to the final(s) next season who do we take out of midfield to put in the 1 or 2 players that we need?
A younger replacement for Carsley? Yeah, that?s relatively easy to say. Then what? Who do we move to the bench? Is our "ideal midfield" always going to be reliant on Cahill being in the team? Who on a consistent basis is going to cross the ball... be it to Yak?s feet or to Lescott?s head?
Arteta is a million miles away from Ronaldo?s freekicks....in fact the freekicks of Jimmy Bullard (for example) and the one we conceded against Brum were infinitely better than anything I?ve seen of late for Everton.
Manny is improving but is he truly worth 8 to 10mil if that?s what we have to pay? Will Arteta?s consistency and freekicks/corners improve?
Who could we get (& afford) to provide a wider attacking option... can we really, truly feed The Yak on a consistent basis? Can we play in such a way so that Johnson is more effective than simply busting his arse all over the place.... most often towards the corner flag???