ToffeeWeb - Season 2007-08

The Mail Bag

We're not going to Kirkby

I may be clutching at straws but events of the last few days lead me to think that the tide is turning against Kirkby. The increased likelihood of the government calling in the plans, the objection from Sefton Council and the scathing reports from the government's own architectural and planning advisors is all good news for those of us who dread the K word.

Will these reports filter through to Goodison ? Will the penny drop that Kirkby is a bad idea ? I hope so.

I don't trust Wyness and his lack of a plan B . I think there are a few people out there with alternative schemes for our beloved club but when will Wyness and co. start to listen? When Tesco pull out ?
Alan Rodgers, Blackpool Posted 30/04/2008 at 14:16:32

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Barry Scott
1 Posted 30/04/2008 at 20:59:06

It?s certainly looking that way. However in my opinion the only reason that the reports have been reported in the local media is due to a certain anti-Kirkby campaign hassling the press recently.

The Daily Post editor stated in an article today "Cabe?s report is not brand new. It has been lurking unnoticed on the Commission?s website for weeks now". He probably knew about it but he chose keep it quiet for some reason.

Bilbo Baggins
2 Posted 30/04/2008 at 21:17:45

Isnt it about time the local media have reported something positive about this badly thought through move? All we need now is for LCC to come out and object publicly like Sefton. George Howarth wants to remember Knowsley objected to Tesco's plans for a superstore in Croxteh on the grounds it would effect Kirkby town centre shops, how hypercripical. KEIOC.

Barry Scott
3 Posted 30/04/2008 at 21:33:44

This is a copy of the DVD that was given to Kirkby residents:

http://www.youtube.com//v/K70R9OaBrqQ

Gerard Madden
4 Posted 30/04/2008 at 22:25:34

An anti-Kirkby campaign have no influence whatsoever on Old Hall Street, Barry. The little read and oft-under threat Daily Post has just been printing what is already well-known and out there in the public domain - perhaps so a small amount of whiners can stop pointing the finger at the whole Old Hall Street group saying they?re biased! The Echo has stuck to the positive in the main and only begrudgingly reporting (in a small ?positive? way LOL) any negativeness.

The Daily Post has highlighted the fact that Sefton has objected - something we?ve known for months and as I?ve said in other articles - the Trafford Centre had objections from upto NINE authorities no less! And CABE not supporting the application is only the same as CABE not supporting the RS new stadium project but no-one seriously expects their project to ?fall? either, in fact the government approved their last scheme DESPITE Cabe's objection.

Lyndon Lloyd
Editorial Team
5 Posted 30/04/2008 at 22:50:26

Madden: "The Daily Post has highlighted the fact that Sefton has objected - something we?ve known for months"

By "we" do you mean those of us on "small websites and webboards" who only represent about 10% of the match-going fanbase?

If so, I would think the Post finally putting some of this information out there can only benefit the massive bloc outside these "small" forums to get more information and context regarding this horribly conceived idea.

Robert Carney
6 Posted 30/04/2008 at 22:57:27

Keep trying GM of the modified crop society. You may get the picture one day.

Even fools have a chance.

Gerard Madden
7 Posted 30/04/2008 at 23:06:08

There aint nothing quite like a terse "Madden: " from Lyndon is there? Well its been common knowledge in the small messageboard ?n forum community that we both inhabit that there will be objections, none of the surrounding authorities will want competition to their own retail centres (Well blow me down!) - just like the authorities that surround Trafford - and last time I was there I saw a huge development, now its time for beleagured old North Knowsley to have a piece of the action me thinks...Now if the ?massively? read Daily Post stokes up a massive protest attended by thousands of angry Evertonians then I?m sure you?ll be happy with that - dont hold your breath though Lyndon!

Tom Hughes
8 Posted 30/04/2008 at 23:14:38

GM,
You have got a thing about berating anything and anyone who disagrees with your increasingly feeble and unsupported stance, rather than countering their points you attack their credibility.

".....?massively? read Daily Post" was your attempt to deride that paper

as ever though you should attempt some research before spouting.....

"Among them is the Liverpool Daily Post, which has recorded an impressive 4.2 per cent increase in sales, making it the best performing regional paid-for morning in the UK"
(hold the frontpage), and by the way the Trafford centre took over a decade to get planning permission, and in an era when out of town retail was far more planner friendly and less politically sensitive than today!!! (hence the need for EFC in the formula in the first place)

Lyndon Lloyd
Editorial Team
9 Posted 01/05/2008 at 00:25:01

"Now if the ?massively? read Daily Post..."

It?s OK, Gerard, the Echo have both stories as well.

Ben McCann
10 Posted 01/05/2008 at 00:33:04

Barry S - cheers for the link.

Blimey, that stuff really turned my stomach. Weak, full of vague unsubstantiated promises. Even now, they?re treating the local community like mugs who don?t know propaganda when it?s stuffed down their throats. Apparently it?s ?all about change, investment...a once in a lifetime opportunity?. Anyone with an iota of intelligence can see that this is all about Tesco making more money, and it really made my heart sink to see our club crest alongside Tesco?s logo. Have we really come to this? But hey, at least ?the Club understand concerns about transportation?. The Board are treating us with contempt and it?s becoming a bigger insult by the day.

I do feel the coverage is becoming increasingly negative and I?m now clinging to the hope that the project will be called in, which in turn should see it scrapped due to rising costs. Please.

Steve Sweeney
11 Posted 30/04/2008 at 14:57:18

I have just read another post about the move to Kirkby and considering the objection to the project by Sefton Council how will the park and ride work??

I would assume that Permission would be needed to have 160 buses parked at Switch Island or the Cinema Complex. Aren't these sites in Sefton? Just another anomaly in this continued saga,

This move just gets more laughable the longer it goes on, Come on Kenwright for once in your life TELL THE TRUTH.

Peter Howard
12 Posted 30/04/2008 at 15:27:03

The mistake the board made was in putting it to a vote ? in so doing, they have given the fans the feeling that they (the fans) are responsible for what happens, hence the current civil war of words.

Bilbo Baggins
13 Posted 01/05/2008 at 09:01:43

Steve you can also add the park & ride from the showcase cinema which is in nieghbouring Liverpool. Does anyone know were the park and walk will be located or is that another secre ?

Also were will the bike stands be located for the anticipated 2,000 riders???

Barry Scott
14 Posted 01/05/2008 at 10:12:32

The Park and Walk plan is here:

http://www.keioc.net/uploads/images/sdg-park-and-walk-large.jpg

Tim Borrington
15 Posted 01/05/2008 at 10:53:02

why do we get it every day now about the Stadium.. The votes said to move, EFC plan to move to the Tesco Site. We need to live with this fact unless EFC say otherwise..Banging on day in day out will achieve NOTHING..Sorry to be so blunt but its the cold fact

Peter Howard
16 Posted 01/05/2008 at 11:59:58

Tom, the CABE report said it applauded the efforts of the local authority to bring forward redevelopment of Kirkby Town Centre in partnership with EFC and Tesco. It also said it supported the development ?going beyond the intensity envisaged by the Local Plan'.

By the way, it also stated it believed the involvement of an experienced Masterplanner would helpto develop a masterplan capble of delivering... Time, Tom to volunteer your services and get behind something that has a chance!!!

Neil McKinney
17 Posted 01/05/2008 at 12:26:10

"This move just gets more laughable the longer it goes on"

Sorry Steve, but I no longer find any of this stadium talk laughable. It is embarrassing for our club and reading the constant articles and posts just gives us the depressing feeling that we’re screwed whether we go to Kirkby or not! I understand your point, but I’m not laughing.

John Evans
18 Posted 01/05/2008 at 12:29:47

I think at the end of the day the board will decide on where they take EFC! It?s no good arguing amongst ourselves over this, what will happen, will happen! (If anything).

All I can say is that I will not be paying to watch EFC in Kirkby!! I feel this is a bridge to far! And the supporters will vote with their feet? And what will happen if fans stop going to watch our team? Why should we care? The board doesn?t!!

I have been reading both sides of the story and a ?Mid-Level Stadium? out of the City is not the way to go for our club!

But that is my opinion only!!

Paul Lally
19 Posted 01/05/2008 at 15:33:55

Destination Kirkby video -

?Your town.?
?Once in a lifetime opportunity for Kirkby.?
?Get invloved - Your support can make the regeneration of Kirkby happen.?
?Put Kirkby on the map.?
?Make Kirkby.?
?Shops.? ?Shops.? ?Shops.? ?Shops.?
Everton want Kirkby to be their home.?
This is the best bit though - ?19 home games so fewer than 2 matches a month during a season.? So no Europe... so not a very good team... so lower crowds... so not much corporate activity... so less revenue.

Says it all. All about Tesco not EFC - we are a tag-on or I should say shed-on.

I was having quite a good day until I watched that video on Youtube.
2 games to go COYB

Tom Hughes
20 Posted 01/05/2008 at 17:38:21

Peter,
I am behind something that has more than a chance..... GP actually exists, it is real, the transport system is tried and tested.... the place completely encapsulates our history and identity. None of this applies to, or is in anway bettered at Kirkby IMO.

Neil Adderley
21 Posted 02/05/2008 at 07:32:17

Peter Howard - You did well to find the only remotely positive comments in the CABE Design Review;

"it applauded the efforts of the local authority to bring forward redevelopment of Kirkby Town Centre in partnership with EFC and Tesco."

I suppose the idea of redevelopment should be applauded but when the details are condemned by the Government Design Watchdog, that would outweigh the notion.

"It also said it supported the development ?going beyond the intensity envisaged by the Local Plan’."

Not quite. The support was for "the principle of development that goes beyond the intensity envisaged by the Local Plan."

Taking away the fact that this particular Tesco project is proposing retail floor space NINE times greater than envisaged in the Local Development Plan, I think it would be clearer for everyone if the statement you refer to is read in its full context;

Summary
We applaud the efforts of the local authority to bring forward significant redevelopment of Kirkby town centre in partnership with Everton Football Club and Tesco. We support the principle of development that goes beyond the intensity envisaged by the Local Plan. The relocation of a premiership stadium here creates a unique opportunity to bring forward retail development, and especially food retail for the benefit of the Kirkby and the surrounding area. However, we think that the masterplan proposed fails to translate this opportunity into a positive vision of transformation. We also think that both Everton and Kirkby deserve a stadium of first class design quality, and we are not convinced that this has been realised by the current proposals, however, our fundamental concerns for the masterplan are paramount and need to be addressed first.

Peter be assured, Tesco will not be spending any more time or money on their masterplan. The final Design and Access Statement has been resubmitted which includes "slight" changes that come nowhere near meeting the standards of CABE, the people of Kirkby or Everton Football Club and their supporters.

You’ve been sold a dud Peter.