The Mail Bag
Does size really matter?
Comments (35)
I have been thinking about our squad for next season and all the complaints about the size of our Midget Gem midfield. A lot of fans are clamouring for more weight and height. However looking into it further all the top teams have the following players:
Man Utd: Scholes Hargreaves Carrick
Chelsea: Mikel Makelele Essien
Arsenal: Fabregas Flamini
Liverpool: Mascherano Alonso Gerrard
Barcelona: Messi Xavi Deco
You would be hard pushed to call any of those players "big". And look at Portsmouth and would you sooner have Diarra or Dioup.
I believe ability is more important than height or bulk. In a defensive MF player, the ability to tackle and pass well without losing the ball. In an attacking MF player, speed,passing ability and the ability to take opposition players on without losing the ball. In a goal-scoring MF player, the ability to score at least 10 goals a season while linking up well and holding the ball up without losing it. Common to all great MF players is a good engine.
My question again: Does size really matter?
Jay Harris, Posted 30/04/2008 at 23:38:12
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Chris James
2 Posted 01/05/2008 at 06:32:00
2 Posted 01/05/2008 at 06:32:00
Yes Harvey Matool, you?re absolutely right, because if we had the chance to sign one or more of: Gerrard, Mascherano, Alonso, Messi, Deco, Xavi Hargreaves, Carrick, Fabregas, Flamini or Mikel we?d simply turn our nose up and look elsewhere wouldn?t we?
Clearly all the players mentioned above are of the highest calbire (able to pass and tackle) and would improve our team/squad (I left out Makelele and Scholes on age grounds alone) and Jay?s point about size is an entirely valid one IF (and this is a caveat) we intended to hold onto the ball and pass it around (which we can and have done at times this season) rather than hoofing it and defending backs to the wall (as we hae done rather more often of late).
Suffice to say the latter do9es require a larger player with physical presence due to the need to continually attack and defend aerial balls...
Clearly all the players mentioned above are of the highest calbire (able to pass and tackle) and would improve our team/squad (I left out Makelele and Scholes on age grounds alone) and Jay?s point about size is an entirely valid one IF (and this is a caveat) we intended to hold onto the ball and pass it around (which we can and have done at times this season) rather than hoofing it and defending backs to the wall (as we hae done rather more often of late).
Suffice to say the latter do9es require a larger player with physical presence due to the need to continually attack and defend aerial balls...
Neal King
3 Posted 01/05/2008 at 06:45:33
3 Posted 01/05/2008 at 06:45:33
I agree Jay, even if you go back 10 years or so, the better holding mifield players and ball winners were small. Take Roy Keane, he was snubbed by a host of top flight clubs because of his size and it was only Nottingham Forest took a chance on him, and look how he turned out. IMO the best at the job in a long time, the you have Batty, Ince, Mcallister/Strachan partnership for Leeds in 92.
So therefore I totally agree that its not about height or weight but QUALITY. Good post, Jay!
So therefore I totally agree that its not about height or weight but QUALITY. Good post, Jay!
Steve Pendleton
4 Posted 01/05/2008 at 07:35:44
4 Posted 01/05/2008 at 07:35:44
Unfortunately my misses thinks it is!!! About the Everton midfield issue that is.
Jonathan Fletcher
5 Posted 01/05/2008 at 08:38:01
5 Posted 01/05/2008 at 08:38:01
What are you talking about?
Essien is built like a tank!
Essien is built like a tank!
Joe McMahon
6 Posted 01/05/2008 at 08:35:04
6 Posted 01/05/2008 at 08:35:04
Trouble is, Jay, Peanuts and Osman are also about 6 stone. The ball Hoofs over them towards a 5'-5" headless chicken running towards the corner flag.
Plus ALL the midfieiders mentioned including Roy Keane were in a different calibre as already mentioned by Chris than Osman, Carsley etc. Unfortunalty we just don?t have the finances (and prob never will) to purchase such high quality. So in our case, YES we do need strengh & muscle. At the moment we have neither.
Plus ALL the midfieiders mentioned including Roy Keane were in a different calibre as already mentioned by Chris than Osman, Carsley etc. Unfortunalty we just don?t have the finances (and prob never will) to purchase such high quality. So in our case, YES we do need strengh & muscle. At the moment we have neither.
Dan Mckie
7 Posted 01/05/2008 at 09:16:41
7 Posted 01/05/2008 at 09:16:41
Have to disagree with some of the players mentioned here, both Mikel and Essien of Chelsea are huge, Carrick, Alonso and Gerrard are all 6 foot plus! Out of the lot I would agree with Fabregas (but he's pure quality) and barca?s midfield but again, they are all world class!
Danny Fleming
8 Posted 01/05/2008 at 10:12:59
8 Posted 01/05/2008 at 10:12:59
I agree with the post that in some cases size doesn't matter but I honestly feel we could do with a bit of height in our team as we are possibly (apart from the obvious few defenders and maybe Big Vic and the Yak) one of the most lightweight teams in the Premier League.
Peanuts and Ossie have undoutable quality when on the ball but, due to their size and weight, they seem to shy away from making very few tackles.
I feel though that Moyes goes out with the wrong mindset and tactics that he feels it suitable for the team to defend on the edge of the 18-yard box, have the players chase the runner and NEVER close down the man with the ball (Carew's goal on Sunday a prime example).
I don't belive that size isn't needed, but I feel that, if we closed the player with the ball down and cut of the space for the opposition to play football and create chances, this would give the smaller players more of a chance to intercept and change the outcome of the game.
Michael Hunt
9 Posted 01/05/2008 at 10:27:21
9 Posted 01/05/2008 at 10:27:21
We need more height and stature for balance in the side. Against teams like Villa we got caught out because our defenders had to mark their big players at set pieces. This meant their strikers were not picked up by our specialist defenders, making it eaiser for their strikers to score.
We are too easily knocked off the ball irrespective of whether we play on the deck or in the air.
We are too easily knocked off the ball irrespective of whether we play on the deck or in the air.
Dick Fearon
10 Posted 01/05/2008 at 10:04:03
10 Posted 01/05/2008 at 10:04:03
Maradonna was the best player I have ever seen in the flesh.
Small? Yes, but as with all good but ’small’ midfielders, he was built like a brick dunny .
Osman is slight in build and Pienaar is particularly light framed and In game after game opponents almost contemptuously nudge them off the ball.
I imagine the games hard men licking their lips in anticipation.
It is after all, a blaady mans game, er’ isnt it?
Small? Yes, but as with all good but ’small’ midfielders, he was built like a brick dunny .
Osman is slight in build and Pienaar is particularly light framed and In game after game opponents almost contemptuously nudge them off the ball.
I imagine the games hard men licking their lips in anticipation.
It is after all, a blaady mans game, er’ isnt it?
John Lloyd
11 Posted 01/05/2008 at 10:50:51
11 Posted 01/05/2008 at 10:50:51
What are on about,
Hargreaves, Essien, Carrick, Gerrard, Alsonso are all 6 foot plus & Obi Mikel is close to 6.4"???
And for some of the others, well its basic - Messi, Xavi, Deco, Iniesta (forgot him didnt you?), Scholes & Fabregas are better players than ours!
Weird post; I don't know what point your making?
Hargreaves, Essien, Carrick, Gerrard, Alsonso are all 6 foot plus & Obi Mikel is close to 6.4"???
And for some of the others, well its basic - Messi, Xavi, Deco, Iniesta (forgot him didnt you?), Scholes & Fabregas are better players than ours!
Weird post; I don't know what point your making?
Darrel Pugh
12 Posted 01/05/2008 at 11:19:04
12 Posted 01/05/2008 at 11:19:04
Its not simply the height its the power and pace and the ability get a hold in a game, generally the taller players dominate. Mind you Crouch is 6'-7" and he can't head a ball, Cahill is 5'-9".
Robbie Muldoon
13 Posted 01/05/2008 at 12:25:05
13 Posted 01/05/2008 at 12:25:05
Jay Harris,
Half of those players you list are massive compared to Osman and Pienaar... what are you on about lad?
Half of those players you list are massive compared to Osman and Pienaar... what are you on about lad?
Colin Smith
14 Posted 01/05/2008 at 12:34:09
14 Posted 01/05/2008 at 12:34:09
The key factor is touch & control. Whether your player 5-5 or 6-5. Ideally, you would like to see both, Vierra & Essien, being good examples. Alternatively, if there was a choice between Osman, small, good touch & vision & Claus Thomson, Gareth Farrelly or Linderoth, all tallish & clueless, I know where my money would go. Going back a bit we have Ball, Harvey, Kendall, Reid & Sheedy, none of whom would figure very highly in a Mr. Universe competition, but were able to make a decent contribution to a game.
Ben Howard
15 Posted 01/05/2008 at 13:31:23
15 Posted 01/05/2008 at 13:31:23
I?m 6ft-2 and I?m shite at football.
Mark Cassin
16 Posted 01/05/2008 at 13:37:50
16 Posted 01/05/2008 at 13:37:50
Can?t remember the actual stats but a massive percentage of goals are from set pieces. In our first eleven only our centre backs are big enough to stand tall otherwise we have to pull our forwards back to mark.
The players you listed in the main are all 6ft and built like athletes, as others have said Essien and Mikel are monsters--someone commented that we couldnt afford this type of player;
Essien was set to move to us from Bastia for £4.5 mil but chose Lyon as he wanted to play under Le Guen. Moyes can spot them.
The players you listed in the main are all 6ft and built like athletes, as others have said Essien and Mikel are monsters--someone commented that we couldnt afford this type of player;
Essien was set to move to us from Bastia for £4.5 mil but chose Lyon as he wanted to play under Le Guen. Moyes can spot them.
Jay Harris
17 Posted 01/05/2008 at 13:40:21
17 Posted 01/05/2008 at 13:40:21
Chris James,
good point. The style of play does have a lot to do with it and if we want to use small classy midfielders, we need to keep the ball down and play.
good point. The style of play does have a lot to do with it and if we want to use small classy midfielders, we need to keep the ball down and play.
Jay Harris
18 Posted 01/05/2008 at 13:46:36
18 Posted 01/05/2008 at 13:46:36
Ben
Good "scouse" point
John Lloyd and others, the point I was trying to make was in assessing the type of MF player we try to bring in in the summer (hopefully) ? does size matter that much?
I think the comparison between Dioup (The wardrobe) and Diarra started me thinking because at one time we were supposedly interested in Dioup.
I was not suggesting that all the players listed were small, just that not that many of them were that big.
Good "scouse" point
John Lloyd and others, the point I was trying to make was in assessing the type of MF player we try to bring in in the summer (hopefully) ? does size matter that much?
I think the comparison between Dioup (The wardrobe) and Diarra started me thinking because at one time we were supposedly interested in Dioup.
I was not suggesting that all the players listed were small, just that not that many of them were that big.
John Lloyd
19 Posted 01/05/2008 at 14:23:59
19 Posted 01/05/2008 at 14:23:59
Ok Jay, I see what your getting at now. It is a fair question you just chose bad examples.
I think that as an individual choice on picking a player then size shouldnt matter, if your good enough your big enough, same with age.
But in the context of a team/squad we are short of physically imposing players & against teams with 4/5 6footers we will struggle at set plays & in aerial challenges as proven by the Villa game I think.
All I think it means is that if DM spies 2 or 3 midfielders with similar technique/skill level & engine then the taller or more physical player will be the one he prefers to go for. We are lacking in height, and if we get a bit more in the side then it may free Joleon to play CB & Baines to play LB which will improve us before we start.
I think that as an individual choice on picking a player then size shouldnt matter, if your good enough your big enough, same with age.
But in the context of a team/squad we are short of physically imposing players & against teams with 4/5 6footers we will struggle at set plays & in aerial challenges as proven by the Villa game I think.
All I think it means is that if DM spies 2 or 3 midfielders with similar technique/skill level & engine then the taller or more physical player will be the one he prefers to go for. We are lacking in height, and if we get a bit more in the side then it may free Joleon to play CB & Baines to play LB which will improve us before we start.
Tony Marsh
20 Posted 01/05/2008 at 16:09:26
20 Posted 01/05/2008 at 16:09:26
"Pienaar and Osman are quality when on the ball" GROOOOAAANNN... They are both too small too lightweight and too inconsistent to be in the Premier League. At times I wonder how Osman even became a pro footballer he is that shite. This bollocks needs to stop if the club is to progress.
Here is one for you. How many teams in the PL above or a couple of places below us would buy Osman if we put him on the transfer list? I think you will find it would be none. We would be lucky to shift him to a decent Championship side, yet some of our lot thinks he is marvellous, I fucking despair at where we are headed I really do.
Untill the fans wake up to the garbage we are served up in the name of football then we will never go anywhere. The likes of Osman should be shipped out and we should never of signed Pienaar. Pienaar has had about 30 minutes of good play o his credit in a whole season. "Headless chicken" I think its called...
Here is one for you. How many teams in the PL above or a couple of places below us would buy Osman if we put him on the transfer list? I think you will find it would be none. We would be lucky to shift him to a decent Championship side, yet some of our lot thinks he is marvellous, I fucking despair at where we are headed I really do.
Untill the fans wake up to the garbage we are served up in the name of football then we will never go anywhere. The likes of Osman should be shipped out and we should never of signed Pienaar. Pienaar has had about 30 minutes of good play o his credit in a whole season. "Headless chicken" I think its called...
Jenny Brown
21 Posted 01/05/2008 at 16:28:08
21 Posted 01/05/2008 at 16:28:08
Yes it does!! Oh sorry, you?re talking about the height of footballers......
Michael Hunt
22 Posted 01/05/2008 at 16:52:24
22 Posted 01/05/2008 at 16:52:24
I guess it all depends how big the hole is you’re trying to fill at the end of the day.
Given the competition, the midfield could certainly benefit from more stature otherwise it is an uphill battle before you start. If all other teams were so lightweight it would not matter as much but nearly all teams outgun us in the physical midfield battles. I believe this means Moyes goes with 5 in the middle more often than would otherwise be.
Given the competition, the midfield could certainly benefit from more stature otherwise it is an uphill battle before you start. If all other teams were so lightweight it would not matter as much but nearly all teams outgun us in the physical midfield battles. I believe this means Moyes goes with 5 in the middle more often than would otherwise be.
Keith Glazzard
23 Posted 01/05/2008 at 16:42:27
23 Posted 01/05/2008 at 16:42:27
Our ’little’ team have conceded about one goal per game this season, and those scored against us away compare very well to anyone else in the PL. Goals scored could (always) be better, but our ’little’ midfielders have chipped in to gain valuable points.
I’m not saying that a couple of mobile, skillful players with good football brains would not be a welcome addition to the squad, (Nolan, anyone?) but don’t overlook what we already have.
As for Osman’s valuation - a big part of what he brings to EFC can’t be bought.
I’m not saying that a couple of mobile, skillful players with good football brains would not be a welcome addition to the squad, (Nolan, anyone?) but don’t overlook what we already have.
As for Osman’s valuation - a big part of what he brings to EFC can’t be bought.
Connor Rohrer
24 Posted 01/05/2008 at 17:55:51
24 Posted 01/05/2008 at 17:55:51
We definatly need stature added to the team. Moyes knows this and I’d expect a big right back and centre midfielder coming in the summer.
A big reason Baines doesn’t play is because we lack height in abundance. Its not to do with the fact that he gets beaten at the back post its more of a problem at set pieces and defending corner kicks. Get a tall right back in then Baines will make the left back spot his own. Which is excellent news because he’s a local boy and a quality player.
Having a go at Osman and Pienaar is unfair in my opinion. Anyone who has watched them this season can see crystal clear they are technically gifted players. Good on the ball, good touch and very aware players. Thats my opinion anyway and anyone who watches Everton regularly would agree.
Yes they do lack in certain areas. Pace and strength obviously but if we can get better and more physical players around them they will improve. Pienaar showed at Ajax alongside the likes of Ibrahimavic, Van der Vaart, Snidjer etc that the better he has around him the better he improves whereas Osman in my opinion has had his best season yet in an everton shirt.
No one can doubt there contributions to Everton this season. They’ve been our most consistent midfielder and YES ahead of Cahill and Arteta. Pienaar has set up 15 goals from open play this season which makes him one of the most creative midfielders in the country. Osman has alot creative his fair share and scored 7 goals which isn’t a bad tally from midfield.
There is also the fact that they are our most hardworking players. They supposedly cover the most yards on the pitch week in week out according to David Billows our fitness coach. You do have to put that into perspective. They are our only midfielders who combine craft with workmen like running. Players like this are excellent assets to have.
Get better and most importantly more physical players around them and they’ll improve.
I’d just like to ask Tony Marsh which Everton players he actually rates? Are there any?
A big reason Baines doesn’t play is because we lack height in abundance. Its not to do with the fact that he gets beaten at the back post its more of a problem at set pieces and defending corner kicks. Get a tall right back in then Baines will make the left back spot his own. Which is excellent news because he’s a local boy and a quality player.
Having a go at Osman and Pienaar is unfair in my opinion. Anyone who has watched them this season can see crystal clear they are technically gifted players. Good on the ball, good touch and very aware players. Thats my opinion anyway and anyone who watches Everton regularly would agree.
Yes they do lack in certain areas. Pace and strength obviously but if we can get better and more physical players around them they will improve. Pienaar showed at Ajax alongside the likes of Ibrahimavic, Van der Vaart, Snidjer etc that the better he has around him the better he improves whereas Osman in my opinion has had his best season yet in an everton shirt.
No one can doubt there contributions to Everton this season. They’ve been our most consistent midfielder and YES ahead of Cahill and Arteta. Pienaar has set up 15 goals from open play this season which makes him one of the most creative midfielders in the country. Osman has alot creative his fair share and scored 7 goals which isn’t a bad tally from midfield.
There is also the fact that they are our most hardworking players. They supposedly cover the most yards on the pitch week in week out according to David Billows our fitness coach. You do have to put that into perspective. They are our only midfielders who combine craft with workmen like running. Players like this are excellent assets to have.
Get better and most importantly more physical players around them and they’ll improve.
I’d just like to ask Tony Marsh which Everton players he actually rates? Are there any?
Neil Humphrey
25 Posted 01/05/2008 at 19:02:47
25 Posted 01/05/2008 at 19:02:47
Tony
If we hadn?t signed Pienaar you would be moaning about the lost opportunity and calling for Moyes? head. And as for Osman, it's easy to argue hypothetical cases, isn?t it?
If we hadn?t signed Pienaar you would be moaning about the lost opportunity and calling for Moyes? head. And as for Osman, it's easy to argue hypothetical cases, isn?t it?
Tony Marsh
26 Posted 01/05/2008 at 19:35:41
26 Posted 01/05/2008 at 19:35:41
Niel If you think Peinnar and Osman are the answer to our midfield problems... deleted .My 8-year-old could knock Osman off the ball and to say the lad is slow is an understatement. As for Piennar the pathetic mistimed tackle at Old Trafford just about sums him up.
Final warning from the editor,: to stop this stupid childish "You know fuck all about football" nonsense right now. I should ban the pair of you... MK
Connor Rohrer
27 Posted 01/05/2008 at 19:44:43
27 Posted 01/05/2008 at 19:44:43
Tony what about the 15 assists? One of the most creative midfielders in the country. Only Fabragas, Ronaldo and Ashley Young can better him in terms of creativity and they all take set pieces. Everyone one of Pienaar?s assists have come from open play.
I don?t remember Neil saying Pienaar and Osman where the answer to our midfield problems.
I?ll ask you again who do you rate in our team? I know you don?t know much about the team but surely you know a few of their names.
The other question is who is the answer to our midfield problems? I?d like to know he what you really think.
I don?t remember Neil saying Pienaar and Osman where the answer to our midfield problems.
I?ll ask you again who do you rate in our team? I know you don?t know much about the team but surely you know a few of their names.
The other question is who is the answer to our midfield problems? I?d like to know he what you really think.
Tony Marsh
28 Posted 01/05/2008 at 20:14:24
28 Posted 01/05/2008 at 20:14:24
Howard, Yobo, Lescott, Yakubu have all been consitent all season and I rate them the most highly in the squad. Yakubu is going through David Moyes syndrome at the moment and it happens to all the strikers we have had at the club. Goals dry up as the striker ends up playing out wide instead od down the middle.
Please don't say there are no other players in the entire world that can't do a better job than Osman. Hunt at Reading is only small but is twice the player Leon is and twice as quick. He cost £50k from non league Ireland. How about him for starters? Now if Reading can unearth him for peanuts why can't we do similar? There are plenty of players out there who could do a job but Moyes would sooner re-sign stiffs like Osman and play it safe as usual.
Carsley, Weir, Pistone, Naysmith, Stubbs... the list goes on and on with players who didn't get shown the door and were resigned by DM when it was obvious to us all they were finished.
Please don't say there are no other players in the entire world that can't do a better job than Osman. Hunt at Reading is only small but is twice the player Leon is and twice as quick. He cost £50k from non league Ireland. How about him for starters? Now if Reading can unearth him for peanuts why can't we do similar? There are plenty of players out there who could do a job but Moyes would sooner re-sign stiffs like Osman and play it safe as usual.
Carsley, Weir, Pistone, Naysmith, Stubbs... the list goes on and on with players who didn't get shown the door and were resigned by DM when it was obvious to us all they were finished.
Tony Marsh
29 Posted 01/05/2008 at 20:25:34
29 Posted 01/05/2008 at 20:25:34
By the way, Connor, take a look at who the assists were against. It makes a big difference.
Tony Marsh
30 Posted 01/05/2008 at 20:29:12
30 Posted 01/05/2008 at 20:29:12
Niel Humphrey, why am I so annoying to you? Is it because I don't like David Moyes's methods or the way he sends out teams to play? Is it a crime to want better? Must we all follow blindly?
Have you seen how following the powers that be at this club can be very dangerous? By this I mean Kirkby ? the "Deal of the century".
You accept all the nonesense all you like. I have seen better and want better than this. It's 6 years... and another 6 to go by the look of it, and nothing whatsoever has changed. We still play negative shite football and have a chairman who pisses all over us.
Have you seen how following the powers that be at this club can be very dangerous? By this I mean Kirkby ? the "Deal of the century".
You accept all the nonesense all you like. I have seen better and want better than this. It's 6 years... and another 6 to go by the look of it, and nothing whatsoever has changed. We still play negative shite football and have a chairman who pisses all over us.
Connor Rohrer
31 Posted 01/05/2008 at 20:31:19
31 Posted 01/05/2008 at 20:31:19
The thing that I don?t understand about you Tony is your always going on about the lack of football and the insistence on long balls yet you have a go at two of our more positive attacking players.
Osman and Pienaar have there deficiencies yes but they are good footballers who are accomplished in terms of passing, intelligence, touch, technique etc. They do lack physically yes and I think the aim for Moyes is to add height to the team and put them alongside the likes of Osman, Pienaar, Arteta and Fernandes. Good news is Moyes seems to be scouting players with height.
I don?t see either as players who are going to take us forward to that next level but I do see them as excellent squad players. Players who can come, give there all and offer a bit of quality here and there. Whats wrong with that? Considering there not good enough they?ve been in our midfield all season and where currently 5th.
I don?t really care which teams Pienaar creates against. I do know that he?s set up goals agains the likes of Man utd, Fiorentina, West ham and Portsmouth etc. There is good mixture. Ronaldo assists have probably mainly come against lesser teams so it doesn?t really matter.
I?d have both Pienaar and Osman over Hunt personally. Hunt?s never really shown me anything when I have watched him. Alot of passion and energy but a genuine lack of quality. Any other players? Centre midfielders really.
Osman and Pienaar have there deficiencies yes but they are good footballers who are accomplished in terms of passing, intelligence, touch, technique etc. They do lack physically yes and I think the aim for Moyes is to add height to the team and put them alongside the likes of Osman, Pienaar, Arteta and Fernandes. Good news is Moyes seems to be scouting players with height.
I don?t see either as players who are going to take us forward to that next level but I do see them as excellent squad players. Players who can come, give there all and offer a bit of quality here and there. Whats wrong with that? Considering there not good enough they?ve been in our midfield all season and where currently 5th.
I don?t really care which teams Pienaar creates against. I do know that he?s set up goals agains the likes of Man utd, Fiorentina, West ham and Portsmouth etc. There is good mixture. Ronaldo assists have probably mainly come against lesser teams so it doesn?t really matter.
I?d have both Pienaar and Osman over Hunt personally. Hunt?s never really shown me anything when I have watched him. Alot of passion and energy but a genuine lack of quality. Any other players? Centre midfielders really.
Connor Rohrer
32 Posted 01/05/2008 at 21:07:50
32 Posted 01/05/2008 at 21:07:50
"You accept all the nonesense all you like. I have seen better and want better than this. It’s 6 years... and another 6 to go by the look of it, and nothing whatsoever has changed. We still play negative shite football and have a chairman who pisses all over us."
Who is accpeting it? Neil has mentioned nothing about Kirkby on this tread. As far as I’m concerened Kirkby and the deal of a century has nothing to do with this. Pienaar and Osman are the issues and our midfield in general.
Outside the top four who has won a trophy? Spurs and maybe Portsmouth. Other than that no one. The bigger and more rich clubs have dominated english football for a while now.
We have no divine right to success. Historically we are the 5th most successful club in England and currently in the Premier League we occupy 5th. Maybe where sitting where we should be.
We have gone alot longer than 6 years without a trophy in our history. Building takes time and in my opinion we are building.
Who is accpeting it? Neil has mentioned nothing about Kirkby on this tread. As far as I’m concerened Kirkby and the deal of a century has nothing to do with this. Pienaar and Osman are the issues and our midfield in general.
Outside the top four who has won a trophy? Spurs and maybe Portsmouth. Other than that no one. The bigger and more rich clubs have dominated english football for a while now.
We have no divine right to success. Historically we are the 5th most successful club in England and currently in the Premier League we occupy 5th. Maybe where sitting where we should be.
We have gone alot longer than 6 years without a trophy in our history. Building takes time and in my opinion we are building.
Robbie Muldoon
33 Posted 01/05/2008 at 21:06:45
33 Posted 01/05/2008 at 21:06:45
I think Tony makes a good point in asking which Premier League club would be interested in signing Leon Osman. Derby, Sunderland and alike I reckon.
However, I think he is a great little squad player to have at Everton... but playing him as a key central midfielder like on Sunday is a joke.
However, I think he is a great little squad player to have at Everton... but playing him as a key central midfielder like on Sunday is a joke.
Connor Rohrer
34 Posted 01/05/2008 at 21:20:15
34 Posted 01/05/2008 at 21:20:15
Robbie Muldoon, I was reading over a Villa forum before the game and most of there fans rated him. The press have definatly praised him quite a bit this season. Maybe he’s impressing people.
He’s underrated in my opinion which is the reason clubs around our level wouldn’t look at him. Similar to Yakubu really. Only Everton and Portsmouth went in for him despite him being one of the best strikers in England.
He’s been our key midfielder all season in my opinion. Players like Fernandes for example are alot better in my opinion but haven’t offered us that energy and enthusiasm that Osman has.
He’s underrated in my opinion which is the reason clubs around our level wouldn’t look at him. Similar to Yakubu really. Only Everton and Portsmouth went in for him despite him being one of the best strikers in England.
He’s been our key midfielder all season in my opinion. Players like Fernandes for example are alot better in my opinion but haven’t offered us that energy and enthusiasm that Osman has.
Jason Lam
35 Posted 02/05/2008 at 02:35:02
35 Posted 02/05/2008 at 02:35:02
Osman and Pienaar don’t dive like Fabregas and will always be at a disadvantage in the Premiership where strong tackles and shoulder barges freely reign. Arteta is the most fouled player in the Prem but cmon he’s looking for the foul half the time so he can swing in the freekick into the opponent’s face.
I like them but there is a baseline in physical presence and unfortunately they are too easily knocked off the ball. The referee can’t blow his whistle on knocking over children. Comparing them to Maradona or Dennis Wise, they don’t have the skill or the steel.
The canteen need to stop feeding the players these advanced technology diets of salads and fruit juices, and get back to raw meat and Pedigree Chum. Dogs of War!!!
I like them but there is a baseline in physical presence and unfortunately they are too easily knocked off the ball. The referee can’t blow his whistle on knocking over children. Comparing them to Maradona or Dennis Wise, they don’t have the skill or the steel.
The canteen need to stop feeding the players these advanced technology diets of salads and fruit juices, and get back to raw meat and Pedigree Chum. Dogs of War!!!
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1 Posted 01/05/2008 at 06:12:28
Btw, I thought Messi?s a striker?