ToffeeWeb - Season 2007-08

The Mail Bag

It's in our control

The scenario I projected for the Arsenal game proved correct and brings into play my scenario for the Newcastle game. To refresh, I predicted that at the Emirates Moyes would go for a draw. I also said that only after it was far too late would he then consider a change of tactics.

It was easy to make those predictions because Moyes can be read like a book. That book could be titled, 'The Art of Negative Football.'

So deeply engrained is Moyes's defensive psyche he finds it impossible to making changes unless absolutely forced to do so. I pose the question, when, in a tight game and before the opposition had scored did Moyes alter the run of play by making a substitution that was not injury related? If my memory serves me right it was in the Rooney era.

Now to my second scenario in which I predicted that what has now become a desperate need of a result we would be facing an invigorated Newcastle that only had pride at stake and a manager with a philosophy that is totally opposite to that of our David.

If it is only for once in his life, this is the time for Moyes to go head to head with Keegan in an all out attacking game. If we must lose then let's go down in a blaze of glory and not with a pathetic whimper. Sadly, I expect Moyes's negative instinct to once again come to the fore and we can expect another dour defensive display decided by a single goal. Villa will be hoping and praying it is Newcastle that grabs that season defining goal.

This is not the game for a faint hearted manager. Moyes must cast off his defensive demons if we are to give a sense of fulfilment after a long and difficult campaign.
Dick Fearon, West Australia Posted 05/05/2008 at 01:21:24

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Michael Kenrick

No...sorry Dick. Can't see it. We have anticipated numerous games this seasom where Davey was gonna do the all-out attacking thing. Guess what: it never happens. To be honest, I don't think the players would believe him if he suddenly told them that's how he wanted them to play. They are not trained or coached to play like that. Look out for a tight game until 60 or 70 mins, then Moyes will change things a little and try to snatch a goal.

Jason Lam
1 Posted 05/05/2008 at 07:17:56

I was reading this article, and the momentum of it was building towards a win for attacking football, and that negative football should never prevail. That would mean a Newcastle win, and a very brave poster!

Sorry but I can’t understand why, at this point of the season with Villa trailing 3 points, why we should suddenly throw the kitchen sink at Newcastle. Remember England vs Croatia, and they just needed a point to qualify? I’m sure it won’t be amusing when we lose 4-5 and Villa pip us to 5th. It’s all about getting the job done I’m afraid.

I’m all for attacking football but the situation calls for a dour unimaginative shift to put all of us including Newcastle into a coma. By the summer we should acquire the attacking fantasy football players (don’t hold your breath)

Steve Pendleton
2 Posted 05/05/2008 at 07:26:30

I hope your wrong Michael, but 6 years tells me you’re right.

Sunday’s game was one of the most boring games I have seen all year. Just hope we weren’t trying to recruit any fresh faced supporters that night!!!!

Constantly read on this website, ’In Moyes We Trust’. Hopefully most of us will continue to believe in it by assessing his approach to the game this weekend.

Neil Scott
3 Posted 05/05/2008 at 07:57:55

Correct Steve, I agree that the current dour negative tactic of ?results first? football (quite ironic really) that we currently serve up will struggle to recruit many new supporters.

So if that is the case... at this crucial time... what impression will these ?world class? players that we are looking to tempt get of Everton Football Club?

Do we look like a team really going places right now?

We did at this time last year, but I think we could struggle this summer with quality signings... and unless we get lots of new faces I can see the current squad, Neville Carsley et al, carrying their ?post-Fiorentina? impotence well into next season too.

And if that does happen, by the time we get to Kirkby, we may just be celebrating this season as a miracle season after all, proving 50% of our supporters to be absolutely spot on.

Tony Part
4 Posted 05/05/2008 at 08:18:33

Defender by name, defender by nature. It's the way Moyes sees the game played because as a player he was always a defender so that's just what we have to live with now. Moyes was a defender as a player so obviously now even as manager clean sheets must still mean more to him than going out and having an exciting team.

In all honestly its been so long since we can ever really remember Everton being a quality attacking team anyway so I guess it shouldn't really bother us too much. Even right throughout the 90s the objective was always to go and stop the opposition before trying to score ourselves. Moyes has just carried on a long trait of what Everton managers have left behind.

Will decent money to spend this summer change the philosophy of the way we play? Certainly on paper we look a decent football team with players who to look at you would think are good on the ball but sadly when you watch Everton play as a team it just doesn't happen and you are very lucky if you get one outstanding performance every three months. Our last being Fiorentina and that ended in a hard luck story.

So I will sit back in hope rather than expectancy on Sunday and no doubt watch the game start as most do, with Newcastle bossing possession with us sitting deep waiting to get the ball so we can whack it down field for AJ to do his mad hare routine of chasing a ball being hounded by the dogs which are the opposing teams defenders. It's all rather predictable but we pay the money to go and watch it when we don't have to so maybe we are just as bad.

Raymond White
5 Posted 05/05/2008 at 08:39:40

I vowed some weeks ago not to watch an Eveton team that starts or includes all three of the stooges:

Hibbert
Neville
Carsley

It happened yesterday and it will happen next Sunday... The way I see it, how can a team play great attacking football, when 30% of the outfield players are yarddogs.... New Center half, midfielder,striker and a right back in the summer Moyes or you can go next season.

Damien Kennedy
6 Posted 05/05/2008 at 09:04:59

Raymond another blinkered individual!!! You lot do my head in. What do you want? Moyes has made us the best of the rest with little money to spend. Carlsey, in particular has done a great job over the past 3/4 yrs. Hibbert and Neville are not what Moyes would have in his ultimate team, but it is about progression and we have progressed year on year. Those players will be replaced over the next two seasons.

Paul Momber
7 Posted 05/05/2008 at 09:29:45

Fair enough to have a pop at Moyes negative tactics but those tactics have got us to the brink of being 5th in the league and the best points haul we have had since the Premier League began.

Steve Pendleton
8 Posted 05/05/2008 at 09:23:31

Fuck this best of the rest tag!!! The only supporters we are generating under this style of football is the herediatry one. That is, if your mum and dads a Toffee, generally his/her kids will be one. Even some of these are dropping off!!!

Why the fuck would any young kid, looking to support a team, pick us as an option. I love our team but constantly remind my dad that it’s a form of abuse for sewing the toffee seed into his kids after displays such as yesterday.

See where you’re coming from Damien but last nights game was an opportunity for our beloved club to sell itself, around the world, with a display that can help to promote sales of shirts, mugs, etc and to generate interest of potential investors.

Why the fuck would anyone invest, whether it be $5 or $50 million, into what was displayed last night??

Mark Pendleton
9 Posted 05/05/2008 at 09:48:18

A more attacking intent would probably have allowed Arsenal to pick us off and do us on the counter attack yesterday. Up to the point we scored we created no less good opportunities than they did and for a large part of the second half enjoyed greater possession. We were passing the ball around to the extent that even the biased commentary team referenced it. Grow up people, had we not succumbed to that one moment and got the 0-0 draw Moyes would have been hailed. League positions aren?t won or lost on the strength of one game and over 37 games this season we?re the 5th best team in the country. And all on probably about the 14th best budget.

Jason Lam
10 Posted 05/05/2008 at 09:54:23

Thanks Steve, I’ll make a note should I start abusing my son!

On the point of marketing the Everton product, that’s an entirely different kettle of fish, not something that can be resolved in a few games against the top4. Let’s see: Everton’s history of European Cups? European Player of the Years? The Beatles originated from Liverpool? Lovely weather and shopping in the north-west? We need to be winning silverware (not likely) or acquire exciting fantasy players to which fans can relate to. Beckham’s not likely to join us, so maybe we should go for Bentley?

Peter Bourke
11 Posted 05/05/2008 at 10:08:06

You lot are a laugh!!!!!
Micheal since you know exactly whats going on at training why don?t you offer some tips on what it takes to take win the EPL, or advise DM on what hes doing wrong at training.
"They are not trained or coached like that"
What crap!
How many times do you see a rugby league footballer drop the ball???? I don?t think they train for that.
The players we have have limited ability and as Moyes has extracted every last bit of potential and ability out of the squad he has.

Joe McMahon
12 Posted 05/05/2008 at 09:50:40

Guys, a lot of passion is being shown on this thread. I agree with some points from all side?s. My own personal view is that the football under Moyes is now very predictable, we don?t have the players to play attacking football, BUT he has signed ALL these players apart from Carsley. If we are being honest quality is certainly not Osman, Neville, carsley, Hibbert, Big Vic, Johnson. They are ALL regulars, but even if we had quality they would be made to play a defensive way.

If Moyes had the Man U squad, the football would not be the same to watch, Moyes hasn?t got the bottle to play attacking football. Would Henry become the player he did if David Moyes was his manager for all the years Wenger had him? It?s not the Moyes way... As another poster said, how are we going to win over the next generation of Evertonians.

Joe McMahon
13 Posted 05/05/2008 at 10:19:53

Just one more thing, to all the folk that say will will finish 5th. Well all that will mean is the same as this season, even more games for a paper thin squad lacking quality. We need several players replacing, the squad size increasing ? it ain?t gonna happen!

Peter Bourke
14 Posted 05/05/2008 at 10:23:42

@Joe McMahon.
"How are we going to win over the next generation of Evertonians" ?????
What....were the previous generation flushed with success and used to winning everything?????
My Arse.... unless you are in your mid 80s you are in dreamland my friend.

Ric Wallace
15 Posted 05/05/2008 at 10:21:11

Michael I still don?t understand your argument clearly. Was there a point during Moyes?s tenure when you decided that:

"Ok, We don?t need to play this defensive football anymore, we aren?t going to be relegated, let?s change philosophy"

I can understand you want to see beautiful football, and who doesn?t? But I urge you to look closely at the teams around us. Ignore the media stereotype for each team but see how they play.

Villa: Hoof ball to Carew- knocked down to Young and crossed into box. Villa fans that I know complain about their style of play!

Pompey: We all know Redknapp wants to play decent football, but this season their form has been intermittent. They have no cutting edge up front so resort to having Kanu hold the ball up playing a direct style with the strength in their side.

I won?t go on with the likes of Rovers and City, as they all do exactly the same as us.

They give us 1-2 attacking performances per 2 months then the rest is results driven.

What do you expect? We all have tiny squads and we need the points. The players can?t play high tempo beautiful football each week unless you can rotate like Arsenal, Man U and Spurs (but Spurs still haven't mastered art of defending).

Michael, I really think you don?t have a case to argue until we attract enough quality players to fill the side so that we are able to rotate, and if there are injuries, the likes of Osman can come in as a replacement instead of Neville!

It sounds cliched, but do you really think attacking football at this minute will fulfill our motto of "Nil Satis Nisi Optimum"- Our motto refers to winning titles and trophies more so than simply the style of football played.

I personally do believe Moyes?s style can be predictable but at this stage of the season we are running out of ideas. And generally aren?t the sides around us predictable too? We know the dangers of each side and how to nullify them.

It?s Swings and roundabouts..

Joe McMahon
16 Posted 05/05/2008 at 10:31:38

Peter Bourke- to attract the kids now, you have to have fancy foreign players with Diamond earings in, live, eat & drink anything sponsored by Nike, Shag Orange faced, bleched haired pop singers own about 6 Ferrari’s and listen to Rap music.

This was not a criteria to the last generation. Everton are just years behind, with awfull image problems, a stadium that’s falling to bit’s and a brand of football that is "Neanderthal" to the eye.

I’m not saying I want Everton to be everything that is tacky & crass about the modern era, but it is an area where we are falling furgher and further behind.

But it’s only my opinion and you are entitled to disagree.

Ant Mill
17 Posted 05/05/2008 at 10:37:27

4-5-1 is the formation we should play, because when we were playing well and winning earlier in the season this was the system Moyes played and it worked. When we use 4-4-2 there is a big gap between the midfield and forwards and we end up resortin to the long ball. I agree that Neville and Carsley centre mid is not good enough and why doesn’t Moyes try the pacy natural left footed Baines down the left, then have Pienaar down the right and he can then move Neville out of centre mid and put Manny back in his natural position (centre mid) alongside Cars and then have Osman behind the Yak. Moyes seems unwilling to experiment by giving Baines a chance and seems that he would rather play loads of players out of position instead i.e. Neville (a right back)-centre mid, Lescott (a centre back)- left back, Manny (a centre mid) right mid and this restricts our game and outlet because Manny is not a right mid

Jason Lam
18 Posted 05/05/2008 at 10:40:29

Exactly what I mean, Joe.

No 12-yr old child wants to look up at Osman and Pienaar saying I want to be like them when I grow up. Fuck’s sake they’re probably bigger then them now! No average woman is likely to have fantasies of 5-way orgy with Cars, Grav, Hibs and Pip! You can’t afford a cat to get rid of the rats? Put up a team poster of Everton then!

You want marketing, well that’s the group you need to target, lots of dosh to spend and couldn’t care less about boring old ’School of Science’ the average grandad keeps banging on about. Pride? how about a couple of Premiership titles

Let’s just concentrate on Champions League football income shall we, should the next blue moon come around.

Dick Fearon
19 Posted 05/05/2008 at 10:29:19

Peter B,
Michael or for that matter none of us know exactly what goes on at training but one thing for sure is that it has little to do with keeping the ball on the deck or imaginative attacking play.
Assuming that our players are not complete imbeciles and have at least average skill we can only guess that what happens in a game has some bearing on what happens at training.
Going by what we see in the game the most used command at training is, Kick the bloody thing as far and as fast as possible away from our goal.
The second and what seems to be the sum total of our training is, Lob the damn thing in the general direction of a lone striker.

I forgot to mention the David Moyes brilliant and unique method of defending long range free kicks. The one where we place a defender on the goal line and therebye make it impossible to catch opponents offside.
Because we do not have a single player with the ability to chip a dead ball with a minimum accuracy we do not waste time on that kind of stuff.
As I said earlier, you can only assume that what is practiced at training is reflected by what take place in the game.

Alex Humphries-French
20 Posted 05/05/2008 at 11:41:25

I agree to some extent. but when we were banging them in during the season all you negative fans kept quiet. During our unbeaten run our play was fantastic, kept on the ground, passed around with quality and skill and we scored quite a few goals.

Since narrowly losing in Europe that has changed due to a disheartened team and many many injuries. so the last 7 games have been terrible. I'm pretty sure we won't throw it away next week. Be positive!!

I find it amazing how the Moyes haters start shouting off as soon as we have been doing badly and it's started to happen over the last few weeks.

Come on blues sort it out and get behind YOUR team and manager.

Jay Harris
21 Posted 05/05/2008 at 12:51:17

Ant Mill
Totally agree.
I have been saying for weeks Baines has fresh legs and looks good going forward. I would play the following team next week (but don't hold you breath)

Howard
Neville/Hibbert Yobo Jags Lescott
Pienaar Fernandes Carsley Osman Baines
Yakubu

Jimmy Mac
22 Posted 05/05/2008 at 12:48:39

Managed to get my son in law (red) to let me take my 8-yr old Grandson to Goodison after months of argument. Took him to the Fiorentina (great) West Ham, Derby C (I?m bored grandad) . We watched the Arsenal game on TV. He went on his playstation at H/T saying, "I think I like Man Utd". Are any further comments needed???

Tom Green
23 Posted 05/05/2008 at 15:11:28

What a load of crap, Joe do you know anything about footy, you can only play to your strenghts, to say if "Moyes had man utd?s team and play defensive" is rubbish, we are building a better team year on year, it makes me laugh all you lot who say we should have gone to Arsenal and played any different to what we did, Moyes has every reason to play counter attack yesterday "and don?t forget Man U do the same when they play arsenal" Have you forgotten the 7-1 hammering we had off them?

Tom Green
24 Posted 05/05/2008 at 15:31:44

And one more thing Dick, who said we went for a draw just because we played five in midfield, have you not seen the game or the stats we had more shots on target and the same possession.

Mick Gallagher
25 Posted 05/05/2008 at 17:00:35

I for one don?t give a shit if we play out a boring 0-0 on Sunday, because its about getting the point we need. If we get the point then we can start thinking about Thursday nights in foreign places again and that will do for me and everyone else on this site. I think. I?d rather play crap and get a point, than playing brillant and end up in the Intertoto next season.

Steve Templeton
26 Posted 05/05/2008 at 17:31:29

Michael,
You mean like that ’must win’ game against Aston Villa when Moyes played for a draw by playing two up front!

Brian Wolf
27 Posted 06/05/2008 at 09:40:32

We are fooked.

Newcastle will beat us - predictably - as they have hit some form as of late.

Aston Villa will beat West Ham and secure the final spot on goal difference.

Everton will be left to wallow in the poo for throwing away all their hard work during the season.