Skip to Main Content
Members:   Log In Sign Up
Text:  A  A  A
The Mail Bag

Carsley or Fernandes?

Comments (35)

Whilst watching the game on Sunday, I got thinking about our central midfield, a thought obviously shared by many ToffeeWeb users, and while complaining to my mate about how unproductive our midfield has been in recent weeks, I began to think how I personally would want it set up.

There seems to be a general consensus that we need a holding midfielder who can break up opposition?s attacks, who thus allows our more ?creative? players the freedom to roam. This season we have seen Carsley and Neville playing this role and again generally it has been said that they do a fairly good job at breaking up the play, but that?s about it and we need to sign a new midfield ?general? this summer.

My thinking is that Fernandes is the man for the job. Now I agree that he isn?t necessarily a battler, in the Carsley mould, but he offers so much more than that. I would liken him to Carrick in the way he plays and the role he could play for this. The lad has a footballing brain and that shows when he is on the pitch, on Sunday when he received the ball he was always looking forward for the pass in a way that would set up or continue the next attacking move. The problem being the lack of movement (or is it awareness?) from the rest of the team.

To me the defining moment of this was when he received the ball in the centre of the park, looked up saw Hibbert open on the right with acres of space in front of him in which he could attack, Manny delivered a neat ball across for him to run on to, only for Tony to remain standing and watch the ball go out for an Arsenal throw-in.

Surely we need players who can identify openings and opportunities out on the pitch for the club to continue progressing as it has in recent years. The ?Battling? qualities of Lee Carsley can surely be coached into a player far easier than the intelligence and awareness which Fernandes undoubtedly possesses?

You will have noticed that I haven?t mentioned anything about the price? because quite frankly we have heard so many different estimates of how much we think he is worth/is available for, that I have no idea how much it is.
Andrew Dickinson, Sheffield, Yorkshire     Posted 05/05/2008 at 23:29:11

back Return to the Mail Bag

Comments

Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer


Jimmy Crack
1   Posted 06/05/2008 at 01:39:10

Report abuse

I haven’t seen much to prove Fernandes is anywhere near as good as Carsley at breaking up play, but he definitely has a great eye for incisive passes, and great positioning. I’d like to see him partner a real midfield general in the middle, with Arteta and Pienaar on the wings
Jarod Avila
2   Posted 06/05/2008 at 02:29:20

Report abuse

Fernandes oozes talent, but has disappointed too often in his most recent stint at Goodison. How many times have we seen him spot the opportunity for a good pass, yet make a mess of it by missing his target by a good 2-3 metres? I?d love to see stats on how many times he gives the ball away in central midfield. I?m betting he?s second only to Phil Neville.

Can he continue to develop and grow in consistency? I?d like to think so, but £12 million seems a high price to find out....
Bill Goodall
3   Posted 06/05/2008 at 07:17:36

Report abuse

I think he is the type of player we should sign. He was not given much of a run early in this stint but over the last few weeks he has started to show he has a lot of quality. He is no bull dog like Cars but he does not need to be with his skills. I believe that Cars should be used as a defensive sub next season with Manny given a chance to start in the role and make it his own. At the very least get him on loan again
Mike Oates
4   Posted 06/05/2008 at 08:21:03

Report abuse

Whilst I totally agree with comments that Manny has the eye for a pass and can be a tremendous link up player he has two major shortcomings :-
(i) he looses the ball far too often in key areas with his fancy dribbling. Often our midfield or full backs have gone past him looking for a pass, he then looses it and hey were short at the back.

(ii) he doesnt track back , he meanders back - he would never ever do a Carsley job .

All that said I think he really can play a part next to a dominant ball winning midfielder (but who ?) if manny price is right - and I’d say no more than £4-5m.
Jason Lam
5   Posted 06/05/2008 at 08:30:05

Report abuse

Fernandes.
Connor Rohrer
6   Posted 06/05/2008 at 08:40:03

Report abuse

Different players but even then Fernandes all the way. Younger, better and more time to develop his talent. Carsley’s been an excellent servant to this club but we need new and improved blood.

I’d keep Carsley as a squad player as we are trying to build a squad but I would be disappointed if he was a starter next season.

Fernandes isn’t a ball winner. Its the weakness in his game in my opinion. He still hasn’t adapted to the gritty side of the game like tracking back and putting his foot in where it hurts. These things can be corrected though which is a positive. Moyes got Yakubu and Arteta working so I’m sure Fernandes could replicate that.

But saying all this Fernandes’s strengths far outweigh his weaknesses. His passing is excellent, he has excellent awareness and reads the game well and he has skill in abundance. I struggle to see how people can doubt him in terms of natural ability. Just my opinion like.

He’s a diamond with a few rough edges and if the price is right sign him. If there asking for silly money like 12 million then no chance. I’m a big fan of Fernandes but I wouldn’t pay 12 million for him.
Andy Ellams
7   Posted 06/05/2008 at 08:54:03

Report abuse

I’d love to see something come of the Tom Huddlestone link, because I believe that him and Fernandes would make an outstanding partnership. Both good defensively, especially Huddlestone, both superb passers of the ball, and can deliver quality dead balls. Add the creativity and goals of Arteta, Cahill and Pienaar and it’s not a bad start. Just need to add a bit of strength in depth.
Mikey Evans
8   Posted 06/05/2008 at 09:02:49

Report abuse

Fernandes is a gem, he is more than capable of playing this role. His sublime yet immature ability bring an added dimension to our rough like diamond midfield.
I would recommend Edgar Davids.
Martyn Harvey
9   Posted 06/05/2008 at 09:50:53

Report abuse

Its nice to see people actually sticking up for Manny. He was nowhere near fit when he joined us this season and it has taken time for him to adjust and bed himself back into the team and the league but he can only get better!!! He cannot be compaired to Carsley. Carsley never wants the ball and he is part of the reason our full backs hoof it up the pitch. Fernandes gives us so much more and is always looking for a good forward pass and an shot on goal which will hit the target compared to carsleys efforts that end up on the back tier of the gladys or park end. And I agree with Andy Ellams: Huddlestone and Fernandes has a good ring to it!!!! Let's not waste time messing round signing players this season!!! Oh and Carsley ? have a nice time at Derby!!!
Jimmy Millican
10   Posted 06/05/2008 at 09:53:02

Report abuse

I had so much hope for Manny when he arrived but I have been so dissapointed (although fitness and injuries have played their part), I just dont think he has offered enough to splash out on him.

That old saying, In Moyes we trust... I think it may now be time to cut our losses with him and find a new gem. If Manny can come back on loan then fine but I am sure that money can be spent more wisely on Bradley.
Mike Oates
11   Posted 06/05/2008 at 09:59:43

Report abuse

According to the "Dail Post" Manny is to be released along with Gardner, Gravesen, Wessels, but VDM still has a year to go!!!!
Jonathan Fletcher
12   Posted 06/05/2008 at 10:00:30

Report abuse

I'n some ways I liken him to Ronaldo. Too much fucking about with the ball at the moment and not enough hard work.

Now look at Ronaldo - end product and works his arse off.

The talent is definately there just needs some work on.
Dick Fearon
13   Posted 06/05/2008 at 09:54:20

Report abuse

It now is possible to track and measure the distance covered by players in a game.
I?m only guessing but to my mind Fernades travels least of all our players. are there any such staistics available for Everton Players?

From umpteen angle shots and slo mos that I see on TV Manny seems lethargic when expected to track back.

Despite all that electronic wizardry it can never completely replace actually being there and would appreciate opinions of actual matchgoers.

Andrew Dickinson
14   Posted 06/05/2008 at 10:57:58

Report abuse

I’ll agree that Manny may not be the energetic when it comes to tracking back, but as Coonor Rohrer put neither was Yakubu, so surely this side of his game can be worked at!

And maybe the fact that he has the eye for the intelligent pass and the quick feet means that we will not constantly be on the back foot in matches and thus needing someone to break up the opponents play all the time, as instead we will be able to pass the ball round the field easier and thus build pressure up on the opposition?
Simon Simpleton
15   Posted 06/05/2008 at 11:36:50

Report abuse

There is no doubt in my mind that technically, Manny is as good as we?ve got. The question is whether Moyes feels he is able to bring that potential to fruition. I?ve got a feeling that Moyes finds it difficult to work with Manny. I?ve also wondered whether he is getting along with the rest of the team. If there are question marks over either of these, then we ought not to pursue an interest. If these worries are not true, then if we can get him for £7m, we should snap him up straight away.
Ian Kearney
16   Posted 06/05/2008 at 11:42:39

Report abuse

Manny’s work rate for the arsenal goal in particular was disappointing, but generally I dont think he is as lazy as some critics have made out. If you have that casual running style, british fans in particular seem to associate this with laziness. But I would say that once again the only things about everton that were worth watching again had fernandes at the heart of them, flicking the ball over denilson’s head then weighting a beautiful pass to AJ being a particular favourite. Another thing about fernandes play that is worth remembering is that he is being played out of position to accommodate what were 3 dreadful central midfielder’s on sunday
Phil Hamer
17   Posted 06/05/2008 at 11:51:06

Report abuse

Yup Manny is great, but even more importantly is the way we play when he is there. The ball goes through the midfield, his confidence on the ball seems to spread to the others and we suddenly have the ability to cut teams open on the deck. It started last week against Villa second half and carried on against Arsenal. I couldn?t believe the change in the team ethic compared to a few weeks ago. Manny MUST be signed !!
Ciaran Duff
18   Posted 06/05/2008 at 12:13:04

Report abuse

Maybe a crazy thought but I’m wondering is there something in Manny’s loan contract about how many full games he plays! Something like, the number of times he plays a full 90 minutes increases the end of season buy price. Well, its only thing I could come up with for the number of times he’s been taken off when seemingly playing well.
Tony Waring
19   Posted 06/05/2008 at 12:16:29

Report abuse

He’s classy, comfortable on the ball - in contrast to most of our present squad - and is capable of seeing an opportunity. The problem lies in the fact that other players are a bit slow on the uptake. But progress comes with practice and I’m sure DM can make a great player of him. Let’s hope the price is right.
Aidy Dews
20   Posted 06/05/2008 at 12:11:47

Report abuse

Everton should get Manny on loan again for next season or try and get him on the cheap because from what I've seen on reports on the net and on Sky Sports, Valencia have got some major cash problems. With the season there having apparently they could still even get relegated and if that was to happen they?d have to sell some of their players for what money they can get!!

I don't think Manny is the ball winning m/fielder we need, he's just not that type of player. Has anyone even seen him make a tackle this loan spell? He would be good for us in other ways but not to replace Carsley. We need a young, athletic, big and physical ball winning m/fielder to replace Carsley because, even though he has had a good season, I don't think we should be starting with Carsley as first choice next year. We need someone younger and better to come in next season along with 3 or 4 more signings!!

Kevin Jones
21   Posted 06/05/2008 at 12:20:25

Report abuse

Sometimes you can just tell when a player has class and Manny definitely falls into that category. OK he hasn?t been as good this time round but didn?t play much for Valencia and has taken his time to get some form. I thought against Arsenal he shows sign?s of last years performances. He still young and I would sign him but wouldn?t go over £6.5 to 7 million. I?d love to see Tom Huddlestone come but don?t hold out much hope
Robbie Muldoon
22   Posted 06/05/2008 at 12:38:41

Report abuse

Moyes WON?T be sigining Fernandes.
Alan Rodgers
23   Posted 06/05/2008 at 12:38:34

Report abuse

I would take Fernandes if the price dropped to £8m and offset the cost by selling Arteta who is disinterested and ineffective. Yes, I know he?s carried injuries but he was still below par before that. He isn?t in the Spanish squad because he just isn?t good enough. I?d cash him in.
Dan Mckie
24   Posted 06/05/2008 at 15:35:04

Report abuse

Id hope that we sign Fernandes and a quality right winger (linked with Joaquin), that way we could move Arteta into a more central role where he can be more effective!
Adam Cunliffe
25   Posted 06/05/2008 at 16:08:26

Report abuse

I think he proved with his deft chip over one of the Arsenal’s players heads and his lovely through ball that followed that he is not a defensive midfielder.

He is a flair player who we should look to to set up attacks and try to play killer balls to the attackers.If we played him in the Carsley type of roll I think his talent would be wasted

P.S: I think we should look to sign him but for no more that £8 or £9 million
Andrew Dickinson
26   Posted 06/05/2008 at 16:28:03

Report abuse

The point im trying to make with this discussion is that maybe the fact that we feel the need to a purely defensive midfielder is holding us back?

Maybe if Manny was told to play his game the way he naturally plays it, then we would retain the ball more than we do at present and thus the need for a pure defensive midfielder would be negated?

Im not suggesting that we dont need a holding midfielder, for in some games the tactics may require one.

If im being a spoon and tactically naive here I apologise ;-)
Declan McCarthy
27   Posted 06/05/2008 at 16:43:07

Report abuse

I can’t seem to make my mind up with Fernandes, I love the way he passes the ball, shows he has vision and is the only player we have who links defence with attacking play, I think the problem is a mental one with him, perhqaps being injured and being played out of position hasn’t helped him to adjust to the pace of the premiership, saying that he should know it after two seasons with a few months rest in Valencia thrown in should have prepared him, will be buy him? I don’t think so, Moyes has expressed no praise in his performances so far which may indicate that he will end up with some other team in the Premiership, I’d like him to stay but I think Bradley offers different options to us and gives everything in a game, a big failure with Fernandes, he cost us a draw yesterday, We don’t require him to be a headless chicken but we do need him to put his stint in, it shouldn’t take two seasons for this to happen, will I miss him if he leaves? unlike the last time on loan the answer is no, he brings too many problems and even here we’ve heard the rumours of his attitude and not being liked by the rest of the team, perhaps only rumour of course, we’re better without him, he isn’t a Blue and does’nt want to be, back to Valencia for a rest for him, never know he might join the barcodes.
Ant Mill
28   Posted 06/05/2008 at 17:22:41

Report abuse

Joaquin oh my word what a winger! It’s probably just the usual end of season wild transfer rumour, but wudn’t it be great if we brought him in. It wouldn add real quality to our midfield; Joaquin, Fernandes, Arteta, Pienaar, Cahill, Osman and Moyes may sign a powerful centre mid (don’t know how good this Bradley fella is) and I’d also like to make the point that when Pienaar has been injured we’ve struggled to replace him down the left with no Mcfadden or Kilbane anymore and I’ve heard young Charles N’Zogbia of Newcastle may be available, why don’t we sign him too?!! After that we need a good right back and another goalscorer upfront and then we’d have a very good squad.
Declan McCarthy
29   Posted 06/05/2008 at 17:55:11

Report abuse

Connor, forgot to mention in previous post would Fernandes’s loss of form be down to the fact that best mate Artetta being in Spain so often because of injury and his other pal Tim being in Australia, like I know he has Nuno, just thought he might have had trouble settling in!!! sorry for the second post, let’s hope 1 point on Sunday.
Stefan Tosev
30   Posted 06/05/2008 at 18:28:06

Report abuse

The question is not Fernandes or Carsley but price- relation performance - Carsley - free and dependable; Manny - expensive and unreliable

We can wish every player but i dont think Fernandes is 12m player
Dave Turner
31   Posted 06/05/2008 at 18:32:13

Report abuse

Aidy has made a great point about Valencia’s situation. They’re a club in turmoil and there is a chance they may get relegated this year (they’re only 2 points above the drop with 3 games to go). If they went down we could probably get Manny for much cheaper than the original 12m price tag, and I see we are now being linked with Joaquin too (top quality player). If we could secure these two players without breaking the bank and still have enough left over to bring in a holding midfielder and maybe another striker then the squad starts to look pretty good for next year.
Matthew Lovekin
32   Posted 06/05/2008 at 19:10:20

Report abuse

I am a massive fan of Fernandes. Unfortunately I have been a bit disappointed with him this time, but there is no doubting his ability and potential. He adds a different dimension to our game, he looks for the ball off the defence so they don’t play hoofball and trys to play through the midfield, he has skill and flair (unlike Carsley) and adds a bit of height to the midfield. Moyes has an ability of bringing out the best in players, if he can do this to Fernandes then we have a quality player on our hands. I doubt we can afford 12m at the moment, so hopefully another year long loan would be ideal so we can have another long look at him and decide to pay up.
Keith Glazzard
33   Posted 06/05/2008 at 20:10:49

Report abuse

TW informs us that DM and others went to watch Michael Bradley in Holland last night in the Hvgn - Ajax game. If so, they had 37 minutes to ponder, as that was when he picked up his second yellow. A must win game, the home side lost, and won’t be in the ECL next season.

I still have a sneaky feeling that we’ll have another American next season.

Connor Rohrer
34   Posted 06/05/2008 at 21:08:39

Report abuse

I’d have Fernandes over Bradley any day of the week. Far better prospect, more experienced and knows the English game.

Bradley is a good up and coming midfielder and at the reasonable price I’d take him but I wouldn’t make him priority.

I’d be disappointed if Moyes let Fernandes go and make Bradley his replacement.
Dick Fearon
35   Posted 06/05/2008 at 23:23:26

Report abuse

Thanks to everyone for complementing my TV viewing knowledge about Fernandes. There seems no general consensus about his worth either in pounds or to the team effort. After his numerous try outs against all kinds of opposition I did not expect such a wide spectrum of opinion.

A point worth taking into consideration is, we are not talking about a kid making the leap from Academia to top level. In such a case allowance would be made for lack of experience. Here I suggest that Manny?s age plus his European and EPL experience makes it reasonable to judge him by what has been seen to date and not by what he might be tomorrow. In other words what you have seen is what you will always get. Either he is a superstar and well worth the money touted for his signature or he is a gamble with money that is scarce.

I also think we should not ignore any rumours about his enthusiasm or causing friction with team mates. It may be scuttlebutt yet niggling at the back of my mind is a certain VDM of whom there was pre signing whispers. Having learned from that ongoing saga, I expect Moyes would scrutinise every aspect of Manny?s character.


© ToffeeWeb
Menu
OK

We use cookies to enhance your experience on ToffeeWeb and to enable certain features. By using the website you are consenting to our use of cookies in accordance with our cookie policy.