As David Moyes ponders over signing another lengthy contract, I can`t help wondering why I`m feeling so pissed off. Let`s be honest, the Scotsman`s tenure has brought stability where none existed, European football when previously it was a distant memory and...... well, precious little excitement along the way.
Now given what we are frequently told is the parlous state of our Club`s finances, I guess we`re lucky to be where we are. OK, Moyes is a genius to have achieved so much and I hope he signs that bloody contract tomorrow but somehow I can`t help thinking I`d trade it all to be doing a Pompey and going to Wembley in a week or two.
Tell you truth, I wouldn`t mind trading places with the Rangers fans if it meant a good day out in Manchester! I know, I know, Walter Smith was a crap manager and would have got us relegated but for.......
Somebody said you don`t get an open top bus for finishing fifth/sixth and I guess that`s what I`m missing. I`ve got no bloody heroes. I ask you, how can you get excited about Phil Neville or Leon Osman and as for Lee Carsley, I ask you!
You see, Our Davey has highered the bar but I`m bored now. I think it`s more because of the dross he dishes up than our not breaking into the Elite League.
But as I say, if only we were going to Wembley or Manchester, I`d even forgive hin that... for a week or two anyway!
Sam Davis, Posted 08/05/2008 at 10:18:07
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1 Posted 08/05/2008 at 14:31:50
2 Posted 08/05/2008 at 14:32:55
Totally agree with the sentiments. Being mediocre is all well and good for a while, it then becomes boring and predictable.
6 years to build a team and still no midfield to speak of, people keep stating that this is our highest points total ever in the prem.
Whoopie Doo !
Still nothing to show for it.
Give me mid table and a trophy any day.
3 Posted 08/05/2008 at 14:39:40
All we need for next season is to up the referees bung fund and we?ll be there!
4 Posted 08/05/2008 at 14:42:35
5 Posted 08/05/2008 at 14:42:13
6 Posted 08/05/2008 at 14:29:45
While I would never diss any player in a blue shirt but I have to say that Moyes has been with us for six years and in that time we haven’t really moved on from a performance point of view. We are just far more resiliant than we used to be we now have almost the 3rd best defence.
Our general lack of ambition on the field makes me think that DM has taken us as far as he can. Maybe in his apparent reluctance to sign a new contract he recognises that fact as well.
But don’t let this stop us from getting behind the blues on Sunday 100%. The recriminations can start at 5.00pm - but not before.
7 Posted 08/05/2008 at 14:33:58
Sometimes I think some of us dont know a good thing when they see it. Or are only happy pouring scorn on the manager or the board. I agree that we dont play like Arsenal, but we play a hell of a lot better football now than we did when we finished 4th, and better than last year when our formation was 1-8-1-1 - ie try and nick 1 and then defend for your lives.
Top 4 is nigh on impossable to break into without a mountain of money. We will (hopefully) achieve a top of the without the sky 4 mini leauge.
We had a great Euro run, and the football up until after our exit was at times great. The long unbeaten runs, the 7-1 deomolition of Sunderland.
Our football is getting better as the quality of the squad improves. With a replacement for Cars, a couple of powerful and skillful midfielders and we shoud be able to give catching Liverpool a real go next year.
We play a lot less hoofball now than we did, and when Cars goes and Nev reverts to fullback we should play alot more flowing football.
Moyes loves this club and I would rather he is running it instead of a mercinary like big Phill Scolari, or 'manage by numbers' Alardyce.
Chelsea play very unattractive football and we know how successful they are! I think we are getting better and Moyes is getting better in his subs and tactics ? although not perfect by any stretch. He is the right man for this club.
If you think things are that bad then how would you change them?
8 Posted 08/05/2008 at 14:31:09
To my mind I?d swap 5th place finish for a 7th place and some silverware any day (a la Pompey)...nobody will remember who finished 5th in 2008 in two years time but a trophy win will always be remembered and not just because it?s entered on to the club?s honors list.
I?ll be fuckin? gutted next Wednesday when they line up in Manchester as I firmly believe it could and more importantly SHOULD have been us. Had Moyes not been so SHIT SCARED of getting beaten against Chelsea (Carling Cup 2nd lg) & Fiorentina (a) then who knows ??... those days we both long for may have returned but alas playing ?not to get beat? did exactly the opposite.
Maybe next season he will be able to sign the ?quality? he says he wants, learns from his mistakes and goes out to try and WIN a big game....WE can but hope !!
PS ....and by quality I dont mean Stephen Carr, Sean Davis and every other failed Man U reserve no mark or ?never gonna be? that we?ve been linked with...!!
Arshavin, Joaquin, Contra etc... now that?s more like it !!
9 Posted 08/05/2008 at 14:52:13
10 Posted 08/05/2008 at 14:52:28
I suppose Arteta, Pinnear and Cahill wouldnt walk into most premier leauge teams then?
your glass mist be so emply it has a hole in the bottom!
11 Posted 08/05/2008 at 15:03:35
You talk about us as if we’re a brainless mob who chant the same stuff, when it’s just that we have a different opinion than you!
Quit being so condescending!
12 Posted 08/05/2008 at 14:59:38
13 Posted 08/05/2008 at 14:59:54
Carsley, Neville, Osman ?
The most used mid for us this season.
Plays Pienaar to wide.
Cahill injured most of.
Arteta useless for most of the season.
Oh ! I almost forgot.
Graveson and Fernandes. WE HAVE NO STRENGTH IN DEPTH.
Keep drinking the meths mate.
14 Posted 08/05/2008 at 14:56:36
Porstmouth couldn?t score for about 4 home games in a row earlier this season. We?re still comfortably ahead of Villa (who have scored a majority of goals from set pieces, wow - dead exciting) and until we lost our two best midfielders to injury we were playing sparkling exciting football.
Yeah, we couldn?t hold out against Benitez?s larger more rested squad but we made progress on them and hopefully will do so again next year.
What do those who aren?t happy with Moyes actually want? Sound like the type of folks who chant "you don?t know what you?re doing" to Avram Grant.
15 Posted 08/05/2008 at 15:12:04
Yes, we were relegation fodder six years ago.. BFD! How many times do people have to repeat it? We all know what we were like six years ago! It has no relevance to current discussions about the manager?s limitations.
I could go on but I?m sure you know all the other pat phrases that get bandied about.
16 Posted 08/05/2008 at 15:58:57
?Brainless repetition of shit we all know?, Michael you really have hit the nail on the head there mate, but you should be referring to yourself and others like you.
17 Posted 08/05/2008 at 15:56:59
We DID NOT ?luck out? (as you put it ) against Fiorentina (a) & Chelsea (CCSF)...WE SHIT THE BED !! A little bit more attacking positivity could and probably WOULD have seen us get the right result in both games. Will you people stop lauding Moyes as ?god?s gift ? to football management.
I fully agree he HAS done a great job to get us to where we are now from were we where six years ago but he DOES have several flaws which were painfully evident to see in ALL the most important games we have played this season.
Let's hope he throws caution to the wind on Sunday and ?goes for the throat? and attacks Newcastle from the first whistle (a la Fiorentina at Goodison... the same way he SHOULD have done against Chelsea & many others).
This is NOT an anti-Moyes post, just a realistic ons as I see it, but If he was as good as you make out we wouldn?t have to worry about Newcastle because we would have won the league!!
18 Posted 08/05/2008 at 16:01:56
And how many times do you have to remind us of this fact Michael, just about every time you get a post like the one above. You?re just as much a broken record as the people you criticise.
And as for Pompey/ Rangers...you don?t get to be in their position with out a little bit of luck. Pompey beat United in the most one sided match I?ve ever seen. United get a nailed on penalty turned down and James practically keeps them in the game single handedly. Where has our luck been this year with?
And as for Rangers, they quite literally parked the bus in front of their goal against Fiorentina in both legs and got lucky in a penalty shoot out.
It?s these tiny margins that decide the fate of cup competitions. You have to play well but you also have to have a lot of luck along the way.
19 Posted 08/05/2008 at 16:19:41
20 Posted 08/05/2008 at 16:13:29
Michael... what happened 6 years ago does have relevance to now as it shows the progress made with very little money from being favourites for the drop to a team which has finished (if we get that point at Newcastle) 4th, 11th, 6th, 5th in the last 4 seasons.
In fact we are THE only team to manage to finish in the top 4 other then the usual candidates in many many years. Yeah we could have kicked on from that, but as Moyes was given no money to strengthen we didn't, so he?s slowly built us back up again into being a much better team then we were then.
Some fans want it all... others are more realistic. You play Neville and Carsley in midfield your not going to see football of a high standard, but if you don?t have any alternatives what can you do? Some fans accept the limitations placed on the manager... some scream blue murder. I?m tired of hearing fans bitch on and offer no alternatives. If in pre-season Moyes brings in 2 new midfielders of world class quality we?ll see better football. If not it?ll still be crap but effective. I would prefer the former but will accept the latter if it means were fighting for a european spot at the end of the season. Some fans need a reality check... Michael, you are one who fits very firmly in to that category.
21 Posted 08/05/2008 at 16:28:04
"Give me mid table and a trophy any day."
Live the dream - http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/tickets/ticketinfo_prices.html
22 Posted 08/05/2008 at 16:19:17
We went out with a whimper to Oldham.
Who’s fault is that ?
Lets all cry shall we because as you state.
’Where has our luck been this year’.
You make your own luck in this game.
That statement just bears out what Michael is saying.
Same old excuses for poor performances.
23 Posted 08/05/2008 at 16:40:35
Grow up !
If you can?t debate, don?t bother.
24 Posted 08/05/2008 at 16:42:10
Oldham was crap, Moyes prioritised and that game wasn?t high on the list... we may have paid the price for that, or it may have helped us sustain our run in the Uefa Cup. That was nothing to do with luck good or bad.
25 Posted 08/05/2008 at 16:25:24
One day when I have more money I will again live in a nice house in the country. I'm pretty content and accept that I can only afford to spend a certain amount of money on buying a house. My neighbour however can't accept that the doesn't have enough money to buy a detached house in the country... he stamps his feet and complains all the time... 'I grew up in the 80s and I had a much better house then now'... 6 years ago he was nearly homeless and now he has a pretty decent house... but he's not satisfied... he thinks he should have one of the best houses around, yet cannot understand that without money this cannot be achieved. He also wants a much prettier house, and again can't understand why without money this cannot be achieved. My neighbour is an idiot.
26 Posted 08/05/2008 at 16:41:00
Yes, Moyes is a great young manager and the best since Howard first time around. But- no trophies have arrived at Goodison during his tenure. Don’t get me wrong, I was not expecting overnight success or miracles when he took charge but it’s been over six years since he took over from Walter, and in all honesty we have not even had a sniff of a trophy since his arrival in 2002. Yes, of course there was the Semi-final of the league cup, and a last sixteen of the UEFA cup, which as I have stated before we could maybe have reached the final if events had been different on that night at Goodison, but now we will never know.
I am just wondering who will be the first manager at Goodison to win us a trophy since 1995. David? Who knows, we certainly have the players capable even though some need to vacate Goodison and a few new faces need to be brought in.
How may supporters of this club after witnessing the FA cup defeat of Manchester United back in 1995 would reckon that thirteen years on the club would not win another trophy, or even reach a final, even if it is the League Cup?
Not many, I’ll bet.
27 Posted 08/05/2008 at 16:41:39
Arteta has been playing with a hernia problem for most of the season, but still created goals - and fully fit which he was last season was voted player of the season - by us!
Pienaar has been a revalation this season, has created goals and taken the pressure of Arteta.
Cahill has been very unlucky with his foot problem and hasnt played much but still scored 9 goals!
Osman is a good squad player, scored some craking goals but has tired in the last half of the season. He is a very good squad player.
Carsley can't pass and is slow, but has done a ok job in shielding the back 4 - wouldn't walk into any other prem team I grant you.
Nev - must never play midfield again - ever, but not bad at full back.
With a natrul wide left player and a couple of centre midfield players who can both pass to a teamate and tackle we will have a midfield to rival most.
28 Posted 08/05/2008 at 16:01:44
Comfortable? If Villa win and we lose this weekend there goes the Uefa Cup place. If we had been playing well recently (or killing off a game when we were ahead, in the better part of the season) then with a home game I would be feeling comfortable. But with one win in the last eight league games (and the win was only 1-0 at home to Derby), five goals scored and eight against, then Villa have a good chance........
29 Posted 08/05/2008 at 16:48:34
Altough we have improved considerably under Moyes we are nowhere near being fortunate enough to be in a posistion to prioritise which trophies we should or should not win.
So if winning the FA Cup isn?t HIGH on Moyes? list of priorities the he SHOULD be fuckin sacked cos he?s takin the piss !!
30 Posted 08/05/2008 at 16:59:32
Those were the days eh? Strangely enough, it’s not that long ago, it’s far closer in history than the golden days most whiners in here refer to.
31 Posted 08/05/2008 at 17:02:18
It was a good decision, but it backfired on the day as the chosen 11 didn?t produce.
More depth of players? Sure, let?s try the likes of Gardener and Fernandes or let?s rob a bank.
If they can?t defend a place in the starting 11 they?ll get thrashed in here anyway. Moyes can?t win with this lot.
32 Posted 08/05/2008 at 17:11:33
33 Posted 08/05/2008 at 17:08:33
And another thing, to those people who harp on about how we could have beaten Chelsea & Fiorentina if only we?d had a go and attack them relentlessly, do you really think it?s that easy? Generally the reason the big 4?s players are better is because they cost more. Surely this can?t be denied. Yak was circa £11 million, Drogbe circa £25 million. To try and match the big boys will generally result in you being battered.
Portsmouth got to the FA Cup Final by playing anti-football aginast Man U. Rangers got to the Uefa Cup Final by playing anti-football against Fiorentia. You can?t have a go against Moyes on the basis that he plays dull football by using those examples. To do so is, without wanting to offend anyone ignorant at best, hypocritical at worst.
34 Posted 08/05/2008 at 17:12:19
Secondly, you criticise Moyes for being ultra defensive against Chelsea and Fiorentina, yet Walter Smith as another poster acknowledged, virtually parked a bus in front of the goal in Italy. If we hadnt conceded in Italy or we had won the pen shoot out would Moyes suddenly be a hero? For any team in cup competitions the line between success and failure is often tiny.
We’ve yet to be ’stuffed’ this season (I’m discounting the 1-4 to Arsenal as it was a very open game, two of the goals were defensive cock ups and we played some sexy stuff for a change). Our defeats have pretty much all been by the odd goal and defensively we’re among the best in the country. As a result, I believe the big 4 do take us very seriously as a challenge and realise that they will have to work very hard to come away with a victory.
35 Posted 08/05/2008 at 18:34:11
...and come away with a victory they do !!
36 Posted 08/05/2008 at 18:48:31
37 Posted 08/05/2008 at 18:41:43
I have been going on for a long time about the ineffectiveness of the Everton Board to either stop making losses or attract some investment by diluting their shareholding.
If Moyes has made little progress in 6 years what progress have the Board made?
38 Posted 08/05/2008 at 18:48:00
What I’m saying is that the league shows how good a team you are. We are currently the fifth best team in England. Cup competitions are one off matches where with a bit of luck, lesser teams can beat the bigger sides.
Our chances of doing better in the cups has been proven this season with a semi-final for the first time in years, because we have a better team. You don’t get to fifth in the PL by being average.
39 Posted 08/05/2008 at 19:35:35
It’s clear that to many he has already gained holy status and if you want to believe he’s the best there is ,good on you.But don’t deny me and other posters a differing opinion or the dream of returning to a more entertaining Everton.Please!
40 Posted 08/05/2008 at 20:04:04
Write an article explaining why you can’t get excited about Arteta, Cahill and Lescott in a blue shirt and it would be a more telling article. Simply cherry-picking the likes of Neville is lazy -- explain why you don’t get excited about the likes of Cahill, Arteta and Lescott and we’ll be getting onto something.
41 Posted 08/05/2008 at 20:06:07
No-one, including Mr.Moyes.
The only thing that beats these clubs nowadays is pure luck on the day, something Everton haven’t had this season.
And to those moaning that they are "denied" when posting negative posts. you are not denied, you are not a minority(at least not in here) In fact this site is a mainly negative site.
You post whatever you like but don’t act surprised when someone actually disagrees with you.
42 Posted 08/05/2008 at 20:08:47
Same, in addition to explaining why you don’t enjoy the likes of Cahill you could also be the FIRST of "your side" to actually offer an actual differing opinion and state one actual human being you think would be better for this club than Moyes and why. Simple moaning on and bloody on about how you wish we’d win something is just as useless as those of us who say Moyes has done well reminding you all of that fact. An actual opinion "I think the job ___ has done at ____ shows he would be capable of using our resources better than Moyes because ___" is an actual argument. "I wish we’d win something" is just whining.
43 Posted 08/05/2008 at 19:42:47
Like Sam Davis,I’m not calling for a replacement because his love-in with Kenwright ensures he’ll never be on his way but I would like to see him become a quicker learner and if playing decent football means we have to slip down the league before making a proper challenge, so be it!
PS.And I would like the odd Cup final too!
44 Posted 08/05/2008 at 20:48:45
45 Posted 08/05/2008 at 20:57:35
Southgate got good results against the top 4 - if Boro hadn’t they’d have been relegated, so they won when it mattered.
Simon Davie at Barnsley beat 2 of the top4 when it mattered.
Redknapp won at Old Trafford when it mattered.
Ramos at Spurs beat 2 of the top 4 when it mattered.
I’m not suggesting that any of these guys should manage Everton but it shows the top 4 are not this impenetrable force that they are made out to be. I still think Kenwright’s lack of funding has a lot to do with it but ultimitely Moyes’ bottling it with his defensive tactics has more to do with us not finishing top 4.
46 Posted 08/05/2008 at 22:10:43
This whole argument is boring. If you are bored with support Everton and want something more exciting, why not support Portsmouth or Man City or (even more exciting) Newcastle? In the meantime, do us all a favour and stop slagging off your fellow (realistic) Evertonians.
47 Posted 08/05/2008 at 22:09:20
48 Posted 08/05/2008 at 22:36:44
"You make your own luck in this game." do you want to role out any more Clichés.
How about it’s a game of 2 halves or the person at the end with the most goals wins?
The fact of the matter is, we’ve had no penalties, 2 legitimate goals disallowed that would have gained us 4 more points. Injuries to key players at important times...need I go on.
The point I was making was that to get to a cup final you need to get the break of the ball occasionally and we this season haven’t had a break.
49 Posted 08/05/2008 at 22:48:38
We have a really good 11 now the aim is to have a really good 18.
50 Posted 08/05/2008 at 23:34:03
The grass always seems greener on the other side.
51 Posted 08/05/2008 at 15:44:10
Anyway, as far as I remember we were playing passing football until the injury crisis bit us. OK so we were unadventurous away to Fiorentina, but did you see United sacking Fergie when they had a dodgy champions league away game (they have had many). Against Arsenal on Sunday I didn?t see Tim Howard hoof it once, despite the fact that we had Pip & Carsley in CM.
The same question springs to mind every time someone moans about Moyes .... Who could do a better job? Who could get this club to 5th in the league?
As for the selection of Baines, I agree he merits a place on paper, but you don?t see him train, you don?t know whether he is fit. Jagielka has done well alongside Yobo and Lescott is versatile enough to be a very good attacking full-back. So unless we change the formation and play 3 at the back with Baines and Pienaar as wing-backs one of Jag, Lescott, Baines has to be on the bench.
52 Posted 09/05/2008 at 09:20:49
53 Posted 09/05/2008 at 11:04:53
We were so close to the mickey mouse cup final and did fairlyw ell in Europe and we are prob gonna finish fifth.
I guess expectations have been raised and as fans we now actually want to WIN something.
54 Posted 09/05/2008 at 12:28:06
55 Posted 09/05/2008 at 12:45:40
"Sometimes when we play the top teams I have to accept that they have better players and if they play well they’ll win..."
That will explain why he never goes out and tries to win against a top side and confirms to ME that he is more interested in not getting beaten which never works.
Yes I know he goes on to say how he finds it difficult to accept etc but it gives me the impression he doesnt really believe that we can beat the top sides.
I do find it really hard to understand because on the very few occassions we have actullay taken the game to a top side during his reign we have WON...!!
Arsenal 2004 & 2007
Man U 1-0 2005
Liverpool 3-0 2006...
spring to mind and just shows what can be done with a little belief...!!
Once again I have to emphasise I am NOT saying we should get rid just that he should be more positive in certain games...the first one being Sunday, if WE win then it doesnt matter about anybody else !!
56 Posted 09/05/2008 at 19:45:44
It's the players who aren't winning when it realy matters, and as for swapping it all to have Harry Redknapp and a trip to Wembly, he hasn't even won it yet! He can hardly be called a winner either, he's the oldest manager in the league and has never got a team to Wembly. Moyes is still a beginner in comparrison and you can guarantee by the time he's Harrys age he?ll have a lot more medals in his cabinet than old Harry. We stand the best chance of breaking into the top 4 thanks to Moyes and once we achieve it and take the money that comes with it, trophies will follow. Patience please!
57 Posted 10/05/2008 at 06:03:16