The Mail Bag
Blue Bill or a Sugar Daddy?
Comments (19)
Firstly let me lay my opinions on the line about Bill Kenwright. I once met him and thought that he was a pretentious luvvie but basically a decent bloke. He's presided over some real disasters for our club from King's Dock to Kirkby (probably) and more besides. His only real attribute is that he's a true blue. So it's only natural that many contributers on here detest him and wish he would sell up.
Now if you look through what has happened at other clubs you might be jealous of their money, but here's the rub....... Look at Man City, Look at the darkside, in fact look at the majority of clubs with sugar daddies. They all made their money from ruthless manipulations of their companies and their customers. There are a few notable exceptions but mostly it seems that they behave as if the club belongs to them. Oh yes.. it does doesn't it. So on a whim they can do what the hell they want and bugger the consequences for the fans. They can treat a football club like a burger franchise if they want. Now I might hear you say, "so does Kenright", but actually his lack of finance probably moderates his behaviour.
I'm actually pretty undecided about which I'd prefer ? a man like BK or a wealthy benefactor ? but if a knobhead like Frank Sinatra/ Hicks were to take us over I'd be very afraid for the club...
Micky Norman, Posted 08/05/2008 at 16:41:32
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Jay Harris
2 Posted 09/05/2008 at 06:42:26
2 Posted 09/05/2008 at 06:42:26
I don't know why we always look at the worst examples when considering ownership. What's wrong with the owners of Man U, Arsenal, Villa, Spurs, Portsmouth ? all rich and successful and supportive of their clubs.
The other common factor is that most successful rich people have a winning mentality, even he Abramovichs and Hicks of the world. We can mock and ridicule all we like but wouldn't we just love a season or 2 of the Champions League finals and chasing the Prem title?
When people look at some of them stretching themselves too far and doing a Leeds just remember we are still making operating losses and most of the assets have been hocked by BIll. Thank god for the Rooney money that covered BK?s buyout of Johnson nicely.
Adam Cunliffe
3 Posted 09/05/2008 at 07:46:01
3 Posted 09/05/2008 at 07:46:01
Lerner at Villa seems to be doing a good job, hr has money and an interest Aston Villa which isnt all about money.Bills got a big heart, but he hasnt got a big wallet and that’s what we need.If we did get took over by a "Sugar Daddy" then I would still want Bill to be involved in the club some way shape or form.
Martin Berry
4 Posted 09/05/2008 at 08:54:08
4 Posted 09/05/2008 at 08:54:08
Leave your "Ol blue eyes" comparison out of this, and Kenwright will do it his way.
Erik Dols
5 Posted 09/05/2008 at 09:28:29
5 Posted 09/05/2008 at 09:28:29
Personally I'd rather have Bill K. than some Yank without the slightest clue about football or some Asian/Russian crook. I have to admit that Lerner at Villa seems to be on the right way, he would have been ideal.
Jay Campbell
6 Posted 09/05/2008 at 09:49:47
6 Posted 09/05/2008 at 09:49:47
I’d rather av Vicky Pollard running the football club. She’s got more fuckn brains than that clown.
Ottar Gadid
7 Posted 09/05/2008 at 10:06:55
7 Posted 09/05/2008 at 10:06:55
Re: Jay Harris:
The owners of Arsenal and Spurs aren’t Sugar Daddies, I don’t think that the posh people of Arsenal ever put a lot of cash into the club, and as far as I know (and my roommate is a Spurs fan) neither did ENIC. Those two are just very well run, that’s all.
Lerner @ Villa doesn’t look that much like a sugar daddy either, they haven’t spent that much more than we did (Carew was swapped for Baros, Barry and Agbonlawhatshisname were already there, and players like Laursen couldn’t cost too much. That leaves Young, who cost about as much as the Yak. Lerner has the advantage compared to the other billionaires that he keeps his hands off the cake.
As for the Mancs, did you read the Guardian the other day? Some SEVEN HUNDRED MILLION quid in debt. Twice as much as the RS. So much even they cannot pay it off properly. So much they fear that investment bankers will take assets at the club.
That means the question is: Would you take a couple of seasons challenging for the title if it involved:
a)Some Eastern Mobster/Mass Murderer taking control of our club (It is absolutely impossible to get that rich in those countries without being involved in something utterly dodgy)
b) Some American hypercapitalist jacking prices through the roof, spitting on our beliefs and "flipping the bird" at the fans?
c) A financial implosion and relegation to face Leeds/AFC Wimbledon/FC United?
There are a lot of negative things to say about Blue Bill, but as far as I’m concerned, the realistic alternatives are far, far worse.
COYB
The owners of Arsenal and Spurs aren’t Sugar Daddies, I don’t think that the posh people of Arsenal ever put a lot of cash into the club, and as far as I know (and my roommate is a Spurs fan) neither did ENIC. Those two are just very well run, that’s all.
Lerner @ Villa doesn’t look that much like a sugar daddy either, they haven’t spent that much more than we did (Carew was swapped for Baros, Barry and Agbonlawhatshisname were already there, and players like Laursen couldn’t cost too much. That leaves Young, who cost about as much as the Yak. Lerner has the advantage compared to the other billionaires that he keeps his hands off the cake.
As for the Mancs, did you read the Guardian the other day? Some SEVEN HUNDRED MILLION quid in debt. Twice as much as the RS. So much even they cannot pay it off properly. So much they fear that investment bankers will take assets at the club.
That means the question is: Would you take a couple of seasons challenging for the title if it involved:
a)Some Eastern Mobster/Mass Murderer taking control of our club (It is absolutely impossible to get that rich in those countries without being involved in something utterly dodgy)
b) Some American hypercapitalist jacking prices through the roof, spitting on our beliefs and "flipping the bird" at the fans?
c) A financial implosion and relegation to face Leeds/AFC Wimbledon/FC United?
There are a lot of negative things to say about Blue Bill, but as far as I’m concerned, the realistic alternatives are far, far worse.
COYB
Nick Entwistle
8 Posted 09/05/2008 at 10:41:39
8 Posted 09/05/2008 at 10:41:39
Micky, I’m not sure why you’re offering up a choice? Bill’s True Blue affiliation does many good things I’m sure for the club, however why should the club suffer with his lies, deception, macinations and spin?
I’m sure he’s a few million down and is now a millionaire without a mill, but why should his desire to make a profit when selling on come above that of Everton as a club re: Kirkby?
You’ll need to forget the lack of investment, just get a grip and deliver a basic level of competence Bill! 24/7!
I’m sure he’s a few million down and is now a millionaire without a mill, but why should his desire to make a profit when selling on come above that of Everton as a club re: Kirkby?
You’ll need to forget the lack of investment, just get a grip and deliver a basic level of competence Bill! 24/7!
Andrew Fletcher
9 Posted 09/05/2008 at 11:03:06
9 Posted 09/05/2008 at 11:03:06
I am neither a supporter of Kenwright nor an objector. However, the question is, if Bill decided he had had enough now, what would happen ? Where would we be ?
Chris Fisher
10 Posted 09/05/2008 at 11:40:05
10 Posted 09/05/2008 at 11:40:05
To get in the top 4 we need more money, if Blue Bill can't provide that then we need someone else!
Changing the subject, I've just read an article on the official website about Kevin kKeegan saying we are the benchmark for the teams outside the top 4 because we?re the only club who has managed to break into the top 4 recently. I agree with that but he then says that Newcastle are the 5th biggest club in the country!!! What the fuck?! What's he basing that on?
Changing the subject, I've just read an article on the official website about Kevin kKeegan saying we are the benchmark for the teams outside the top 4 because we?re the only club who has managed to break into the top 4 recently. I agree with that but he then says that Newcastle are the 5th biggest club in the country!!! What the fuck?! What's he basing that on?
Compare Everton's history to Newcastle's ? it doesn't even come close!!! They had to get promoted to the Premiership for a start; we?ve never been out the top flight! What a twat! It just shows how much he knows about football. I hope we fucking murder them on Sunday... the 5th biggest team my ass!
Paul Lally
11 Posted 09/05/2008 at 13:14:19
11 Posted 09/05/2008 at 13:14:19
Didn’t Randy Lerner want to invest in EFC first because he knows his football unlike the other Americans who know ’soccer’ and BK was not interested despite ’looking’ 24/7 ?
It is shame that BK is not bessie mates with Richard Branson.
Has the money and the media outlets to promote EFC worldwide.
And, after reading his brilliant autobiography, is a top bloke who is brilliant at business.
Andrew Lloyd-Webber is his mate who is rolling in cash but ........................
BK is Chairman who relies on his CEO Keith Wyness to run EFC.
No wonder BK puts his foot in it when he is being supplied the information from Wyness.
My other concern with BK is how being a true blue he buys into the Kirkby move based on Wyness track record.
Surely Bill checked this mans CV before appointing him ?
BK is a great Evertonian but is too easily led by a CEO who is only interested in money not EFC as a founder member of the Football League with the history to match and one of the most unique stories in world football.
It is shame that BK is not bessie mates with Richard Branson.
Has the money and the media outlets to promote EFC worldwide.
And, after reading his brilliant autobiography, is a top bloke who is brilliant at business.
Andrew Lloyd-Webber is his mate who is rolling in cash but ........................
BK is Chairman who relies on his CEO Keith Wyness to run EFC.
No wonder BK puts his foot in it when he is being supplied the information from Wyness.
My other concern with BK is how being a true blue he buys into the Kirkby move based on Wyness track record.
Surely Bill checked this mans CV before appointing him ?
BK is a great Evertonian but is too easily led by a CEO who is only interested in money not EFC as a founder member of the Football League with the history to match and one of the most unique stories in world football.
jayharris
12 Posted 09/05/2008 at 13:19:21
12 Posted 09/05/2008 at 13:19:21
Ottar
why do all rich owners have to be Eastern mobsters or crooks?
The only current premiership owner with a dubious past is City’s Sinatra and doesnt that stand out.
The main comparison for me irrespective of being a sugar daddy is that all successful businessmen have a winning mentality and are respected in the financial community unlike a certain luvvie who is I am sure just as much of a joke to them.
why do all rich owners have to be Eastern mobsters or crooks?
The only current premiership owner with a dubious past is City’s Sinatra and doesnt that stand out.
The main comparison for me irrespective of being a sugar daddy is that all successful businessmen have a winning mentality and are respected in the financial community unlike a certain luvvie who is I am sure just as much of a joke to them.
jayharris
13 Posted 09/05/2008 at 13:27:18
13 Posted 09/05/2008 at 13:27:18
Paul Lally
I believe Wyness was brought in to cover up the mess that was Bk’s buyout of Johnson for 20 million plus legal fees when strangely the same year Everton’s debts went up by 20 million.
Trevor Birch a well respected accountant and insolvency expert lasted just weeks at EFC that has never been explained properly either.
Now BK only had 1 million to his name at that time and Paul Gregg only put up 7 million so welcome the man with a dubious CV and a reputation for deceit.
I believe Wyness was brought in to cover up the mess that was Bk’s buyout of Johnson for 20 million plus legal fees when strangely the same year Everton’s debts went up by 20 million.
Trevor Birch a well respected accountant and insolvency expert lasted just weeks at EFC that has never been explained properly either.
Now BK only had 1 million to his name at that time and Paul Gregg only put up 7 million so welcome the man with a dubious CV and a reputation for deceit.
Brian Richardson
14 Posted 09/05/2008 at 13:33:47
14 Posted 09/05/2008 at 13:33:47
Jay Harris, just a small point here: Chelsea’s owner has an extraordinarily dubious past. I know a guy who has written extensively on Roman’s history and you’ll do well to find somebody in the world whose success owes more to corruption. His links to Putin mean nothing will ever come of it (very little sticks where Putin is concerned) but nobody believes he made his money honestly.
As for Man Utd, I’d cry if we were taken over by anybody like Glazer. He’s an embarrassment to the club, irrespective of the money he pours into it.
As for Man Utd, I’d cry if we were taken over by anybody like Glazer. He’s an embarrassment to the club, irrespective of the money he pours into it.
Jay Harris
15 Posted 09/05/2008 at 13:43:59
15 Posted 09/05/2008 at 13:43:59
Brian
I suggest you contact your friend to correct him. Putin and Abramovic did NOT get on well. Putin wanted to put a special tax on Abramovic which is why he moved his money to a London based fund.
Here is an extract on Abramovic which tells you more about the man who incidentally pours a lot of money into the Russion national side:
Roman Abramovich, 37, one of the youngest and most influential of Russia?s oligarchs, remained largely unknown until recently. Few people even knew what Abramovich, once called the "stealth oligarch," looked like -- one newspaper offered a reward to the first person to photograph him. Born in 1966 on the Volga, Abramovich was orphaned at the age of 4 and spent most of his adolescence with his grandparents in a bleak western Siberia town 700 miles north of Moscow. After a brief stint in the Soviet army, he made plastic toys and started up an automobile parts cooperative. He attended the Gubkin Institute of Oil and Gas in Moscow, then traded commodities for Runicom, a Swiss trading company. Abramovich attributes much of his success to the patronage of oil magnate Boris Berezovsky, who introduced him to Yeltsin?s inner circle. By 1996, Abramovich joined the board of directors for Sibneft, Berezovsky?s most prized oil holding, and was later put in charge of the company?s Moscow offices. After Berezovsky fell out of favor with the new Putin regime, Abramovich took over his patron?s oil assets and the country?s largest television network. In 2000, Abramovich expanded his empire to form the multibillion-dollar company Russian Aluminum while also branching out into politics. First winning a seat in the State Duma (the lower chamber of the Russian parliament), Abramovich then became governor of Chukotka, a position he has held for two years. The desolate Russian province has become a sort of personal project for Abramovich -- he has spent tens of millions of dollars of his own money building new homes, supermarkets, hotels and cinemas in Chukotka.
Now compare that to anything "Blue" Bill has done or achieved.
I suggest you contact your friend to correct him. Putin and Abramovic did NOT get on well. Putin wanted to put a special tax on Abramovic which is why he moved his money to a London based fund.
Here is an extract on Abramovic which tells you more about the man who incidentally pours a lot of money into the Russion national side:
Roman Abramovich, 37, one of the youngest and most influential of Russia?s oligarchs, remained largely unknown until recently. Few people even knew what Abramovich, once called the "stealth oligarch," looked like -- one newspaper offered a reward to the first person to photograph him. Born in 1966 on the Volga, Abramovich was orphaned at the age of 4 and spent most of his adolescence with his grandparents in a bleak western Siberia town 700 miles north of Moscow. After a brief stint in the Soviet army, he made plastic toys and started up an automobile parts cooperative. He attended the Gubkin Institute of Oil and Gas in Moscow, then traded commodities for Runicom, a Swiss trading company. Abramovich attributes much of his success to the patronage of oil magnate Boris Berezovsky, who introduced him to Yeltsin?s inner circle. By 1996, Abramovich joined the board of directors for Sibneft, Berezovsky?s most prized oil holding, and was later put in charge of the company?s Moscow offices. After Berezovsky fell out of favor with the new Putin regime, Abramovich took over his patron?s oil assets and the country?s largest television network. In 2000, Abramovich expanded his empire to form the multibillion-dollar company Russian Aluminum while also branching out into politics. First winning a seat in the State Duma (the lower chamber of the Russian parliament), Abramovich then became governor of Chukotka, a position he has held for two years. The desolate Russian province has become a sort of personal project for Abramovich -- he has spent tens of millions of dollars of his own money building new homes, supermarkets, hotels and cinemas in Chukotka.
Now compare that to anything "Blue" Bill has done or achieved.
Jay Harris
16 Posted 09/05/2008 at 13:52:06
16 Posted 09/05/2008 at 13:52:06
Brian in what way is Glazer an embarrassment to Utd?
All the players he?s helped them buy and trophy?s they?ve won.
Compare that to the embarassing lies that emanate from GP every week and the luvvie half time entertainment and ask yourself who is more of an embarrassment.
All the players he?s helped them buy and trophy?s they?ve won.
Compare that to the embarassing lies that emanate from GP every week and the luvvie half time entertainment and ask yourself who is more of an embarrassment.
Phil Martin
17 Posted 09/05/2008 at 14:05:06
17 Posted 09/05/2008 at 14:05:06
Brian Richardson, you are hillarious.
Glazer is an ammbarrassment to UTD. They’ve gonna win their 2nd title and a CL under his helm. He paid for their big transfer investments and also offer current players huge long term contracts. So that their best players are almost certain never to leave to another huge club.
Now lets talk about BK and KW. We are planning to sue a japanese dentist this summer.
Who’s the embarrassment again???
Glazer is an ammbarrassment to UTD. They’ve gonna win their 2nd title and a CL under his helm. He paid for their big transfer investments and also offer current players huge long term contracts. So that their best players are almost certain never to leave to another huge club.
Now lets talk about BK and KW. We are planning to sue a japanese dentist this summer.
Who’s the embarrassment again???
Alan Kirwin
18 Posted 09/05/2008 at 13:14:15
18 Posted 09/05/2008 at 13:14:15
Jay Harris: Interesting you list Man Utd & Spurs amongst the clubs you regard as "well run by its owner". Hmm.
Should we mention the fact that Man Utd has gone from a club with no debt to a club with over £600m of debt, and that the interest payments alone of over £80m per annum are met by, ah yes, the fans via massive hikes in ticket prices.
As for Spurs, they are without a shadow of a doubt the club that thinks most beyond its means. It?s one of the most expensive grounds in the world (and one of the worst to get to & from). Given the size of the club, size of their gates, history & pedigree (i.e. in reality very little), Spurs are a red herring.
I have all the time in the world for Arsenal. Great club, great heritage, prudently run & invariably managed & supported by gentlemen. Their renaissance, income & new prestige can be explained in 2 words, Arsene & Wenger. He?s a genius. All of this was orchestrated by David Dein, good friend of the much & unfairly maligned BK.
The reality is, as the posting suggested, that clubs are being taken over by arrogant oligarchs with little or no empathy with real fans & club history. Give me BK versus a lucky & ruthless Russian aparatchik, a Thai farudster or an American tosser.
When success re-presents itself to Everton Football Club it will be all the sweeter for it. We can then put to bed all the hurt and injustice caused by Heysel, Clive Thomas, PL Collina, Clattenburg et al.
Should we mention the fact that Man Utd has gone from a club with no debt to a club with over £600m of debt, and that the interest payments alone of over £80m per annum are met by, ah yes, the fans via massive hikes in ticket prices.
As for Spurs, they are without a shadow of a doubt the club that thinks most beyond its means. It?s one of the most expensive grounds in the world (and one of the worst to get to & from). Given the size of the club, size of their gates, history & pedigree (i.e. in reality very little), Spurs are a red herring.
I have all the time in the world for Arsenal. Great club, great heritage, prudently run & invariably managed & supported by gentlemen. Their renaissance, income & new prestige can be explained in 2 words, Arsene & Wenger. He?s a genius. All of this was orchestrated by David Dein, good friend of the much & unfairly maligned BK.
The reality is, as the posting suggested, that clubs are being taken over by arrogant oligarchs with little or no empathy with real fans & club history. Give me BK versus a lucky & ruthless Russian aparatchik, a Thai farudster or an American tosser.
When success re-presents itself to Everton Football Club it will be all the sweeter for it. We can then put to bed all the hurt and injustice caused by Heysel, Clive Thomas, PL Collina, Clattenburg et al.
Harry Keogh
19 Posted 09/05/2008 at 15:25:34
19 Posted 09/05/2008 at 15:25:34
Chris Fisher
"WEVE NEVER BEEN OUT THE TOP FLIGHT"
Errr.... check ya history mate! lol.
"WEVE NEVER BEEN OUT THE TOP FLIGHT"
Errr.... check ya history mate! lol.
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1 Posted 09/05/2008 at 05:52:07
Look at Man City, I think Sven has been harshly treated given he has only been in the job 5 minutes and is already facing the axe. What did Shinawat (or what ever his name is) expect?? Did he think they would win the league with one big spending spree. You could see that Sven was putting into place a fairly good team but before he can go to the next level the impatient owner pulls the rug. I can?t believe these clubs that get rid of a manager so quickly. Even some of our worst have lasted 3 years.
If I had to make a call one way or the other I would go for NO Sugar Daddy.