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Moyes in the Indy...

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Great interview with David Moyes by Everton mad Independent columnist, Brian Viner in todays Indy. Interesting to see that DM partially agrees with Kevin Keegan about cracking the SKY4 but refuses to accept it can't be done.

Another interesting point. Brian Viner obviously looks at sites like TW and relates to Dave the fact that a minority of fans want him removed. Moyes seems genuinely shocked to find such disloyalty amongst Evertonians.

I'm glad for his sake that he doesn't look in himself or he would discover one of the most fractious and divided fanbases of any club in the EPL.
Peter  Eastoe, N Wales     Posted 09/05/2008 at 09:57:19

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Stephem Stuart
1   Posted 09/05/2008 at 14:40:23

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"I?m glad for his sake that he doesn?t look in himself or he would discover one of the most fractious and divided fanbases of any club in the EPL.
Peter Eastoe, N Wales"

It?s said that Moyes is a realist - so what?s the harm that many fans think he?s dull, boring, negative and has no tactical acumen?- surely he?s a big boy now?
Chris Dottie
2   Posted 09/05/2008 at 15:06:11

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I’m not so sure that "many" fans think that Stephem even if some of you do. I for one can understand his surprise to hear that some people want him out considering what he’s done for us.

Another quote that put it in perspective for me was Keegan saying "We want to be Everton", on the same page in the paper that recalled our 2 last day survivals, one of which took place only 4 years before Moyes arrived. There are many teams that want to be in Everton’s shoes, including Spurs, Man City, Villa, West Ham etc, in fact there are now only 4 that don’t. It used to be that 16 clubs were better off, now it’s only 4 and I’m sure we all, Moyes included, look forward to that number reducing even further.
Phil Hamer
3   Posted 09/05/2008 at 11:42:15

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Great article on David Moyes in the Independent, a real insight into the man and his methods. As a personal trainer myself I love the way he is studying sports physiology to the extent where he has installed a steep artificial hill on the training ground with a view to leg strengthening. Stuff like that will make a difference to our players fitness and explosive movement (sprinting/jumping). It is a microcosm of the forward thinking and pro-active methods that have seen us improve so much.

One interesting part of the article was: 'On some of the unofficial websites there has been plenty of carping these past few weeks, with some impressively deluded individuals even calling for change at the helm. "I'm not aware of that," he says, when I bring it up. "If people are dissatisfied, I find that strange.'

Now I read many unofficial Everton websites and this is the only one with such negativity. It seems that the viewpoints of Tony Marsh, Michael et al have been noticed and have now found their way through to Moyes. This makes me pretty angry. Guys, why don't you just knock all that crap on the head and stop embarrassing yourselves and the rest of us.

Here's to breaking the 'glass ceiling' next season with Moyes at the helm!!

Rob Newland
4   Posted 09/05/2008 at 15:19:39

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I did enjoy the phrase, "impressively deluded individuals even calling for change at the helm."

Nobody has a right to be a top team ... even us. These days it’s clearly about money -- nobody in their right mind can deny that. Given our resources you can’t really make a case for any team relatively "pound-for-pound" better off than us.
Peter Corcoran
5   Posted 09/05/2008 at 15:43:41

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I would be horrified if DM did read this website as it has become a forum for delusions of grandeur without any consideration as to the financial clout of the club (or lack of).

I have been a big ciritc of DM in the past but accept he has done a great job with very little.

DM still has alot of rough edges but I defy any topflight manager to achieve (in comparative terms pound for pound) what he has with so little.
Michael Kenrick
6   Posted 09/05/2008 at 16:10:08

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I?d be horrified too if I thought David Moyes read this site. He?s got far more important things to be doing with his time.

As for "delusions of grandeur"... what a stupid comment after David Moyes himself just confirmed we really had a good chance of breaking into the top four this season ? without the gobs of money fans like you clamour for.

Short memories indeed... Moyes has already succeded in breaking into the top four ? without said financial clout.
Dave Edwards
7   Posted 09/05/2008 at 15:52:33

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"If you’d said to me at the start of the season, would I like to be in this position with one game to go, I’d definitely have said yes," he says. "If you’d asked me six weeks ago, probably not. But back in August I thought it would be a decent season if we finished in the top 10, looking at some of the other teams, and what they’d spent." - David Moyes (Independent)

Let’s face it, most Everton fans with a touch of realism to them would have said the same. Isn’t it a case that our mid-season exploits raised our expectations and a combination of some deflating cup exits, some key injuries and. let’s admit it, a slight loss of form with some players; has led to some of the negativity creeping into Toffeeweb that wasn’t there before March.
I don’t like the way we are limping towards the finishing post either. I expect some significant additions in summer and Blue Bill to adequately fund them, and I want Davey to move from his ’Pip/Cars in central midfield and Hibbo at RB’ conservatism of this season and strive for a more attacking outlook with hopefully a stronger midfield.

But when’s all said and done - we have seen progress this year and with our finances that’s been very positive - and I think sometimes it takes an outsider (in the form of a national journalist) to get things in perspective, and see a manager who’s not perfect, but has been instrumental in getting us moving in the right direction. I honestly can’t see anyone else who could have got more out of our squads over the last few years than Moyes has done.

I think this summer and next season will be the key to the future for our club. I’m more concerned about our finances, lack of investment and our disasterous plans for Kirkby, than what is happening on the pitch at present (which tend to relate to quibbles about tactics and selection than more fundamental issues).

If we get 5th on Sunday (and if the lads don’t, then they’ve got no one else to blame) and make 2 or 3 worthy additions, get everyone fit again, start blooding some of the youngsters and get the likes of Baines and Lescott some time in their right positions, then 2008-09 will start with much optimism.

There are important fights ahead for the future of our club - so let’s keep in perspective our differences of opinion with Moyes and the team - and let’s have a more focussed debate on Kirkby and the alternatives possible instead. That’s where our frustrations and concerns need to be targeted on.

Fingers-crossed for Sunday! COYBs
Michael Brien
8   Posted 09/05/2008 at 16:14:02

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Stephem - " so what’s the harm that many fans think he’s dull,boring,negative and has no tactical acumen...."

The harm is that if other clubs come sniffing around he may well think to himself " I’d be better off going to somewhere where I am appreciated"

We all like to be appreciated whatever job we do - and if he was to think that all Evertonians think in such negative terms as some of the critics who vent their feelings on TW then I am sure he wouldn’t want to stay.


I like the phrase - " impressively deluded individuals". Personally I am not sure that the individuals in question deserve such politeness.Mind you I wouldn’t want to stoop to their particular level.
I must get the Independent tonight on the way home from work if possible - Brian Viner is a good writer and a massive Evertonian.
Michael Brien
9   Posted 09/05/2008 at 16:14:02

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Stephem - " so what’s the harm that many fans think he’s dull,boring,negative and has no tactical acumen...."

The harm is that if other clubs come sniffing around he may well think to himself " I’d be better off going to somewhere where I am appreciated"

We all like to be appreciated whatever job we do - and if he was to think that all Evertonians think in such negative terms as some of the critics who vent their feelings on TW then I am sure he wouldn’t want to stay.


I like the phrase - " impressively deluded individuals". Personally I am not sure that the individuals in question deserve such politeness.Mind you I wouldn’t want to stoop to their particular level.
I must get the Independent tonight on the way home from work if possible - Brian Viner is a good writer and a massive Evertonian.
Michael Brien
10   Posted 09/05/2008 at 16:14:02

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Stephen - " so what?s the harm that many fans think he?s dull, boring, negative and has no tactical acumen...."

The harm is that if other clubs come sniffing around he may well think to himself, "I?d be better off going to somewhere where I am appreciated."

We all like to be appreciated whatever job we do - and if he was to think that all Evertonians think in such negative terms as some of the critics who vent their feelings on TW then I am sure he wouldn?t want to stay.

I like the phrase - " impressively deluded individuals". Personally I am not sure that the individuals in question deserve such politeness. Mind you I wouldn?t want to stoop to their particular level.

I must get the Independent tonight on the way home from work if possible - Brian Viner is a good writer and a massive Evertonian.
Paul Thompson
11   Posted 09/05/2008 at 16:40:27

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The interview shows what most of us already know, that Moyes is a thoughtful, dignified guy who is ambitious for himself and the club, but realistic about the constraints anyone outside the top 4 is working under. His intelligence and attitude is certainly in contrast to many of his sour, self-deluding critics on this site. For me this reached a peak last week when one charming individual called Moyes ?this prick?. Whilst not all of the glass one eigth full brigade are as personally obnoxious, their degree of negativity never ceases to surprise. Neither the manager, the Chairman or the club in general is anywhere near perfect and people have a right to express thier views. But when calling for heads to roll, be (very) careful what you wish for.
Peter Eastoe
12   Posted 09/05/2008 at 17:03:15

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’Dull, boring and negative’...Who do you want as a manager...Billy Connolly !

Of course the SKY 4 managers are such charismatic,laugh a minute bunch of good time Charlies. I mean that Rafa the Gaffer. Positively lights up a room when he walks in !
Brian Richardson
13   Posted 09/05/2008 at 17:25:10

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It’s a tremendous read and, once again, Moyes comes across as a motivated, thoughtful and hugely ambitious manager. I couldn’t be prouder to have him on board. I just wonder whether a lot of fans will only realise what we had after he’s gone.
Chris Fowler
14   Posted 09/05/2008 at 17:25:29

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"Dull, boring and negative" - sounds like Chelsea, can anyone remind how they’re doing this season?

Fact is, we could easily be sitting in 4th place right now if decisions had gone our way - see www.rightresult.net - then would the anti-Moyes brigade be so loud?
Simple Simon
15   Posted 09/05/2008 at 17:34:32

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I?m not Moyes? biggest fan nor his biggest critic but believe he has been worth his weight in gold to our club. I really wouldn?t change him for anyone at this time. In saying that, the piece in todays Independent was written by a fan of Moyes, and didn?t dig too deeply into Moyes?s mind. This was a ?feel good? piece of journalism.

And Davy, if you?re reading this, the vast majority of Evertonians appreciate and admire all the hard work you?ve put in. Please continue.
Ottar Gadid
16   Posted 09/05/2008 at 18:39:39

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Hear Hear,

Moyes is a proper chap with a clear mind and ambitions in the long run, not a Kevin Keegan "let’s get Henry and Ronaldinho and win every game 7-0" dreamer.

Which is what we need. Let’s hope he stays to see his ambitions fulfilled.
Mick Wrende
17   Posted 09/05/2008 at 18:43:12

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Interesting that Moyes says he is trying to break into the top 4 but many of his supporters on here are saying we have no chance without the sort of money the 4 have. How horrified Moyes would be if he read that about his fans.
Alan Clarke
18   Posted 09/05/2008 at 19:34:11

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How can Moyes say he believes we can break into the top 4 then at the same time say he expected us to finish top 10? I don’t understand!

I think top 10 is his real expectation but his press sound bite is to say "of course we aim for the top 4".

Also if we’re making progress under Moyes how come we’re only 5th this season? Only 3rd or higher is real progress. Here’s to one of Moyes’ classic 0-0 draws on Sunday and a celebratory lap of honour!
Nick Heady
19   Posted 09/05/2008 at 19:53:37

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If all this talk of needing to spend millions to crack the Sky Four is true then how is it we have already done it? How is it that Tottenham (the EPL's biggest spenders over the last two years) are nowhere near? City, Pompey and I'im now guessing at least two other clubs have spent more than us this year and were still ?best of the rest?. I think managers just convince themselves that this is the case and now constanly use it when failure inevitably comes.

Teams play against the Sky Four differently to the other games, they go onto the pitch scared especially when away. If you were to swap all the Spurs players for the Gooners, the Spurs players playing for the Gooners would be in the Sky Four at the end of the season, and I'm sorry to say it but the same would be true about us and them.

Just like the Krauts and the Ities, some teams know how to win and have a winning mentality installed in them. Because, let's face it although we've fallen slightly short this season... but it hasn't been by much.... has it?
Michael Kidd
20   Posted 09/05/2008 at 20:13:13

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Can anyone put the Independent article on the site?
Michael Kidd
21   Posted 09/05/2008 at 20:17:37

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Ooops! It’s there already, isn’t it. Sorry...
Steve Green, Southampton
22   Posted 09/05/2008 at 22:30:35

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THE Peter Eastoe? ? ! !
Brian Richardson
23   Posted 10/05/2008 at 00:04:12

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Alan Clarke, 5th would be progress because we finished 6th last season. Finishing 4th a few years ago was a remarkable example of Moyes’ ability to get every ounce of ability out of his players. We benefited from some good luck, a lack of injuries and a run of form that continued to gather momentum.

How anybody can still question how much progress Everton have made under Moyes is absolutely beyond me.

And Alan Clarke - you’ve argued my point for me. When Moyes arrived, we were on our way out of the top flight of English football. Now you’re whinging because we’re not 3rd.

Not bad eh?
Alan Clarke
24   Posted 10/05/2008 at 09:47:53

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Not whingeing just pointing out that all these idiots claiming we?re progressing and that 5th is a brilliant achievement need to look back at our 4th place finish. Nil satis and all that.

Let's just keep standing still then, most people seem happy with that.
Simple Simon
25   Posted 10/05/2008 at 10:43:52

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Alan Clarke: You are talking utter shite. The year we finished 4th was a fluke, and we actually had less points than we have now. Moyes?s progress has been in building what seems to be an established top 6 team. That, my friend, is progress.
Peter Corcoran
26   Posted 10/05/2008 at 11:00:05

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Michael Kenrick

I think you have misunderstood my message or I did not explain it well as I should have done.

"DM still has alot of rough edges but I defy any topflight manager to achieve (in comparative terms pound for pound) what he has with so little." ? this is not a negative statement nor a clamour for more money but a statement of what DM has done for us.

?Delusions of grandeur?
What I meant was that some fans think we should/have a right to be winning things/achieving more despite the fact that we have little money.
I agree whole heartedly that Moyes has worked miracles with very little cash in relative terms to other clubs who have spent more and are not as good as us but there are some fans who just cannot appreciate what DM has achieved and have these delusions about what we should be achieving. Hope that clarifies the matter from my point of view.
Michael Kenrick
27   Posted 10/05/2008 at 15:40:42

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Peter, David Moyes said he expected that he could break into the top four this season... right up to the point where he amazingly conceded the battle to Liverpool, even while we were still ahead of them!!!

The problem is Moyes taking us so far, but then bottling it against the big teams. It?s the uderlying theme of the season, and it is reasonable for fans to expect that Everton would at least take the game to the Sky 4 teams and have a go at beating them, rather than descend into the very worst of negative defensive tactics and fail 7 times of 8 to come away with anything.


To expect some better results against the top four is not "delusions of grandeur" because he?s done it before. He?s taken significant points from the top four in previous seasons, but bottled it in this one.

Brian Richardson
28   Posted 11/05/2008 at 02:20:03

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Bottled it? Explain more. I’m not being facetious, I honestly want to know what it is that makes you think David Moyes bottled it. He doesn’t strike me as the kind of manager to bottle anything, so I just wondered what it is I’m missing. Yes, we lost. But does that necessarily mean Moyes bottled it? I stress again, I’m not being facetious in any way shape or form. I just want somebody to explain why DM is accused of bottling it when we lose games.
Michael Kenrick
29   Posted 11/05/2008 at 02:34:13

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I think it?s been beaten to death to be honest, Brian. And if you don?t agree by now, trust me, nothing I tell you is going change your mind. If your perception when you watched those matches was that we really were actually trying to beat our betters at the game of football, that?s fine.

For me, though, Moyes had the boys usually playing for the draw, and hoping to snatch something off a set piece near the end, when the opposition supposedly tires. In reality, the result was a contrary gameplan if I recall. We would typically go behind before he could step things up a gear, and then we chased the game.

It became abundantly clear in far too many games against the big boys ? and even the less glamourous also-rans we have struggled against during this painfully awful last quarter of the season ? that Moyes?s philosophy of defense above all, of hoofing the ball to oblivion, was negative in the extreme.

When the team went out of the Uefa Cup, he had no answer; he had no way to motivate them; he had no means of getting them out of their rut and back to winning ways. That?s what a really good manager would do.

Talk about lessons learned.... it has been exactly the same as the dreadful months that followed the losses to Villarreal and Dynamo Bucharest. So not much learned there then!

In short, he bottled it.

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