ToffeeWeb - Season 2007-08

The Mail Bag

The Value of Good Management

After the most successful blue season in 20 years (I include 04-05 & CL qualification in that claim) I thought it was worth contemplating just what David Moyes has done to Everton.

We can, as some have, focus on the fact that we took 1 point out of 12 against the big 3 and the Spanish Armada. But in all honesty, we could/should have had 2 draws against ManU and at least a draw against the RS at Goodison. We can even, as some have, take that as a sign that we are further away. Hmm.

There is an increasing volley of support & plaudits coming Everton's way from smart people within the game, including top managers like Ferguson, Wenger and Eriksson, and leading pundits like Hansen, Laurenson, Dixon, Peacock, Shearer, etc etc.

But set aside our football performance and consider the change in our asset base, i.e. the players. We can all I think remember the state of the squad at the end of Walter's tenure (and I don't think Walter was as bad as some claim). But we had more than our fair share of faded stars, speculative buys and mediocre wannabees. It was not good.

Fast forward to May 2008 and let's examine where we are on the squad front. The estimates are mine and mine alone. Disagree as you wish, but I hope the sentiment is made. This is the value of our (main) squad as I see it.

- Howard   £6m
- Hibbert   £3m
- Neville   £3m
- Jo-bo   £10m
- Jolean   £20m
- Jags   £10m
- Baines   £6m
- Rodwell   £3m
- Gosling  £3m
- Nuno Valente £2m
- Arteta   £15m
- Cahill   £10m
- Pienaar   £10m
- Osman   £6m
- Vidarsson   £3m
- Yak   £18m
- AJ   £10m
- Vaughan   £7m
- Victor   £4m
- Jutkiewicz   £2m

TOTAL squad value - £141m

Even at £10m or so each way, I think the impact upon the playing squad is incredible.

If that squad is strengthened with the likes of Cardiff's Ramsay (superb), Wolves' Ebanks-Blake (excellent) and, oh please god, Arshavin, then I for one will be putting my money on us getting into the CL4 next season. We are moving on up ladies & gentlemen. Those in red shirts kindly move aside.

Wishing all toffee-noses a long, hot summer and out of the blocks in August.
Alan Kirwin, Arundel, West Sussex Posted 14/05/2008 at 12:51:40

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Comments

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Jonathan Fletcher
1 Posted 14/05/2008 at 15:43:53

Jags the same value as Cahill? No way.

£20m for Lescott? Try half that.

A bit optimistic here I think!

Adam Cunliffe
2 Posted 14/05/2008 at 15:45:13

Ebanks Blake is good and I totaly agree with you about Arasharvin but Ramsay is unproven at the top level. At leats Ebanks Blake has shown he can score goals in the Championship consistently so I wouldn?t mid him coming in but I think Moyes has got to start looking for established Premier League quality players. After all, you can only find so many gems in the lower leagues.

Chris Fisher
3 Posted 14/05/2008 at 15:50:51

WHAT?! Half of £20 million for Lescott?!! Fuck right off! He's much better than Ferdinand and he was over £20 mil, I'd say £20 mill for Joleon would be a bargain!!

Shaun Brennan
4 Posted 14/05/2008 at 15:51:31

Where did you get those figures from? Champ Manager? I think you can probably half or even knock 2/3 of those prices you?ve quoted.

Why is Vaughan £7m when he?s constantly been injured and Vic is £4m? I don?t understand.

Not sure of Arshavin, never seen much of him, just a few games in the Uefa Cup. Saying that, what happened to everyone rattling on about Edmar of Metalist?

Anthony Horabin
5 Posted 14/05/2008 at 16:02:12

So Shaun your saying that Yak and some of the others are worth less now than when we bought them. Again all a matter of opinion and speculative, but the whole squad must be worth over £120 million.

Dave Jeanrenaud
6 Posted 14/05/2008 at 16:18:37

I think Vidarsson may have been released on a free so we missed out on a cool £3 million there!

David Okeefe
7 Posted 14/05/2008 at 16:38:45

Adam: Ramsey is 17 and is part of the Cardiff first team, no mean achievement. I have only seen him play in a televised cup-tie against Boro, but his touch and technique is far superior to that of his team mates and suggests that he can go far.

I’m with Alan on this one, make them an offer.

Having said all that, i bet he has a tinker in the cup final.

Micky Norman
8 Posted 14/05/2008 at 16:49:56

This market value stuff has no bearing on reality. You still have to replace them and if the market is going stupid, we would also have to pay stupid fees. This is where Moyes real talent lies- you buy it cheap and then you keep it. Get the value where it matters- on the pitch.

Brett Bradshaw
9 Posted 14/05/2008 at 17:20:18

Rio Ferdinand was 30m a fair few years back so I would have to agree that Lescott is well worth at least 20m (to a club with money)

Plays more positions, Scores more goals, Younger and even better looking! well...

Paul Coleman
10 Posted 14/05/2008 at 17:41:03

- Howard £4m
- Hibbert £2m
- Neville £1.5m
- Jo-bo £6m
- Jolean £12m
- Jags £7m
- Baines £4m
- Rodwell £1m
- Gosling £1.5m
- Nuno Valente £0.8m
- Arteta £11m
- Cahill £6m
- Pienaar £6m
- Osman £3.5m
- Vidarsson free
- Yak £12m
- AJ £7m
- Vaughan £3m
- Victor £2m
- Jutkiewicz £0.5m

I like this post, these are my values

jayharris
11 Posted 14/05/2008 at 17:49:30

Alan
I think you’re being a bit optimistic on one or two:

- Howard £6m
- Hibbert £1m
- Neville £1m
- Jo-bo £6m
- Jolean £18m
- Jags £5m
- Baines £5m
- Rodwell £0.25m
- Gosling £1m
- Nuno Valente £0.25m
- Arteta £12m
- Cahill £10m
- Pienaar £4m
- Osman £5m
- Vidarsson 0
- Yak £15m
- AJ £8m
- Vaughan £2m
- Victor £1m
- Jutkiewicz £0.25m
TOTAL squad value - £100.75m

Notes:
We only got 1 million for naysmith and Valente’s only got 1 year left on his contract at the age of 33.
Most of the youngsters including Vaughan and Anichebe have had little exposure so will not command great fees as it stands.

Peter Jones
12 Posted 14/05/2008 at 17:59:01

Not wishing to be pedantic but is it not one point out of 24 against those finishing above us.

Kevin Prytherch
13 Posted 14/05/2008 at 18:52:05

Howard £6m
- Hibbert £3m
- Neville £3m
- Jo-bo £10m
- Jolean £15m
- Jags £6m
- Baines £6m
- Rodwell £1m
- Gosling £2m
- Nuno Valente £0.5m
- Arteta £15m
- Cahill £12m
- Pienaar £6m
- Osman £5m
- Vidarsson £2m
- Yak £15m
- AJ £7m
- Vaughan £5m
- Victor £4m
- Jutkiewicz £1m

124.5 m

Maybe i’m being a touch optimistic but the youngsters are worth a bit on potential alone

Mark Griffiths
14 Posted 14/05/2008 at 20:20:03

Just watcing Arshavin and he looks technically great, but I would have concerns about his workrate, he does not seem to track back and seems a little pompous in his play, maybe for £6m but not £12m+.

Mark Wynne
15 Posted 14/05/2008 at 20:22:56

Again, for those who seem to have ignored the fact: Vidarsson just got released. We didn’t even get a block of cheese for him. Wake up and smell the coffee guys. Either that, or maybe you think we could get £5m for Paddy Boyle?

Keith Glazzard
16 Posted 14/05/2008 at 20:20:46

As Ken Dodd always says, I’m not very good with money, and I’m not getting into the how much thing. But Alan made me think about Walter’s last days, and the squad we had. Memory is fallible, so I went to the OS stats pages, which I found very properly organised and easy to use.

So what was the team we wouldd have been looking at as Smith gave way to Moyes?

Weir, Stubbs, Unsworth, Pistone, Watson Andersson, Gemmill, Naysmith, Gravesen, Radzinski, Campbell, Dunc.

Some good players, and with good years left in them. But no magic, and quality to challenge the top end. And whatever the millions might or might not be, there is still no comparison between then and now.

And, of course, I haven’t mentioned Gascoigne or Ginola. But as I have, I said to a mate at work - I can’t understand why Smith hasn’t succeeded, considering his record with Rangers. "I could manage Rangers" he said. I didn’t argue.

David Edwards
17 Posted 14/05/2008 at 22:28:11

Just watched Arshavin myself - in fact I focussed on him as completely as you can via the TV cameras - and thought his skill, vision and effort were very good throughout. Unfortunately better football brains than me would have seen that as well, and I fear he has just priced himself out of any BK transfer kitty given to Davey this summer. I hope I’m proved wrong, but even if you believe his need for an EPL team outweighs his need to compete in next season’s CL, I reckon any bid we might make will be beaten hands-down by other clubs.

I was imagining what a spark he could our team, and I bet Davey was as well. Back to the scouting I fear - Bugger!

Eric Myles
18 Posted 15/05/2008 at 07:49:18

You’ve all missed out our most prized asset.

Andy Van Der Meyde!!!!!!!!!

Connor Rohrer
19 Posted 15/05/2008 at 07:56:11

Howard: 4-5 million

Hibbert: 1-2 million
Neville: 2-5 million
Yobo: 7-8 million
Jagielka: 5-6 million
Lescott: 8-10 million
Baines: 5-6 million
Valente: Free

Arteta: 12-15 million
Osman: 5 million
Cahill: 10-12 million
Fernandes: 8-12 million
Carsley: Free
Pienaar: 5-7 milion

Johnson: 6-8 million
Yakubu: 15-18 million
Anichebe: 3 million
Vaughan: 1-2 million

That’d be about right if you ask me. You won’t get as much for defenders as you would for our better midfielders. We’d easily get 12-15 million for Arteta. Valencia offered 15 in the summer and where rejected and I’m sure a numebr of Spanish, Italian and English clubs would offer that aswell.

Cahill’s age and injury proneness knocks his price down a bit aswell as the fact that he only plays in a certain position. Saying all this though every price gets inflated.

Steve Ferns
20 Posted 15/05/2008 at 10:38:54

This is all a bit silly as prices paid depend upon market forces. Players are only worth what someone is willing to pay for them.

AVDM for example is worth less than nothing as we will have to pay him something just to get the bugger out the door to a new club on a free.

Arteta will only go for more than £10m if a bidding war starts. If he decides he’s off in the summer and there is no real clamour for him in Spain, then I can see us only getting £5-10m. Same with Cahill.

Also, consider Johnson, only last summer he was worth £10m as West Ham tried to prize him away. Now, there isn’t the clamour for him after the goals dried up and he’ll only be worth £5m or so unless someone tries to take him away from us and then his price will rise.

Vaughan is a most difficult player to price, if he wants to leave, then I would expect to get at least £2m for him, but his price could soar if there is a bit of interest.

You can’t really put prices on players heads. Even Moyes won’t do that. He will just assess who he wants to keep and if bids come in he’ll consider them on a bid by bid basis. So less of the silly talk eh?