I read this morning that Mr Bradley would back the redevelopment of Goodison Park, but that Everton have to "come to the table". Assuming, in an ideal world that we did "come to the table" and we did thrash out a deal to redevelop Goodison into a modern 55,000-seater stadium, can you imagine the amount of work that would have to be done? Can you also imagine how much atmosphere would be lost by tearing down the two main stands?
Can we afford to have up to two full seasons with a half a stadium in place, no atmosphere, no intimidating crowd, just a building site that teams mark down as a chance at sneaking three points? It concerns me. Am I alone?
Peter Laverty, Posted 29/05/2008 at 14:01:18
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1 Posted 29/05/2008 at 14:26:48
2 Posted 29/05/2008 at 14:33:43
3 Posted 29/05/2008 at 14:37:12
Not them over there, no.....
I know i will get shot down in flames for this...but hey ho.....would it not quicken the process though?
4 Posted 29/05/2008 at 14:34:22
5 Posted 29/05/2008 at 14:36:20
Plus I think it was Tom Hughes who has posted numerous times on here who gives a detailed overview on how the stadium can be redeveloped without reducing capacity below 30k. You don’t have to lose 2 stands at once. Hopefully he’ll post a reply to explain.
6 Posted 29/05/2008 at 14:40:01
7 Posted 29/05/2008 at 14:43:59
And with wormtongue in his ear Bill the buffoon is gonna do any thing that fatboy suggests
8 Posted 29/05/2008 at 14:47:49
Thats what i like to see,Evertonians thinking long term......
9 Posted 29/05/2008 at 15:05:22
Shift the pitch towards it during the close season and we’d have a triple tier stand increasing our capacity and containing all the executive boxes we lack at the moment.
Build a double tier Park End stand next over 2 years (bottom tier year one, top tier year 2) linking up with the Bullens and repeat for Gwladys when the money starts to roll in. Capacity could be around the 55k mark no problem with it never dropping below current levels.
Now where is my £400k consultancy fee?
10 Posted 29/05/2008 at 15:31:07
11 Posted 29/05/2008 at 15:31:09
If you can fuck up the marketing and the clubs PR you can have your consultancy fee, oh sorry fat arse has already got that .
When we move to the vibrant city centre that is Kirkby to a world class stadium that will have an atmosphere that will rank with Cologne. Everything will be fine!
Plus don’t forget that the transport system will be state of the art and it will all cost a minimal amount. Only 60 Million out check your Maths!! Sounds like the words of madman? no KW on the 17th of July 2007 on the Everton website. For those needing evidence check out the timeline on the stadium debate on this site.
The only thing he gets right is when he says planning process might screw the whole deal up. I do hope it is not libel to call him fat arse or quote his own words.
12 Posted 29/05/2008 at 15:56:32
Alternatively, for a fee - fans who don’t get to go to home games - those now abroad etc - could have a photo of their face attached on boards covering the empty areas!
13 Posted 29/05/2008 at 15:41:00
The naivety of some who think that they are entitled to know everything because they are supporters often astounds me. I’m sorry, however unpalatable this is we are not entitled to know everything. My season ticket is not an automatic guarantee that I have to be told everything about how the club runs, neither is my 40+ plus years of watching and that of my father going back to the 20’s. Neither am I stupid enough to believe everything that is said to me by either Wyness, Kenwright or Tom Hughes.
I genuinely believe that GP cannot be redeveloped and I have some limited understanding and experience of multi million pound building projects. Those that often quote other grounds clearly have rarely visited them - OT is not landlocked by narrow terrace streets, Villa Park had and still has substantial green space on at least 2 sides plus significant space behind both goals. White Hart Lane has land on 3 sides that is non dwelling (by the way they are looking to move as well). The RS are (disgustedly) moving to green space which will not be surrounded by narrow streets. Now forgive me where else do people want to compare us with? Chelsea might be muted but that has a railway line on 2 sides and had no housing between the lines and the old ground. It does have terraced housing on the curve but not quite like the terraced streets of GP and much further away from the ground than ours.
Find me a ground in the Premiership that has terraced streets 15yds away from it that has been successfully redeveloped and I will shut up. Equally find me a Premiership club that has informed or informs its supporters of its plans and then holds a democratic vote and I will shut up. Finally find me an investor willing to put substantial sums into our club and he can make any decision he likes because until such time as the supporters own the club it belongs to the directors and shareholders however unpalatable that may be.
14 Posted 29/05/2008 at 16:15:10
We’d make the Kop the away en and use the Anny Road as our new Gwladys Street albeit for two years only(THANK GOD)
15 Posted 29/05/2008 at 16:25:55
16 Posted 29/05/2008 at 16:28:15
Bit hypocritical isnt it, or was it just a case of the ideas above not suiting to your way of things???
Believe me mate, there are passionate people who on all sides of this ground move who just want whats best for the club, there are also experts plans available for the redevelopment so dont start all that nonsense by rubbishing peoples ideas cos they dont fit in with your own.....
17 Posted 29/05/2008 at 16:45:27
Executive boxes at the back of the new Lower Gwladys Street??? Unbelievable. It will inhibit the standing and therefore the singing.
18 Posted 29/05/2008 at 16:43:47
To make a very minor adjustment to Walton Lane would give the total area now covered by Goodison, thus doubling what is now available.
There is even enough space to turn the pitch through ninety degrees if that were required.
As it has recently transpired that LCC own some of this land why can a new stadium not be built on this area?
19 Posted 29/05/2008 at 17:00:34
20 Posted 29/05/2008 at 17:10:40
Their stadium is always available on the days we need it anyway so why not ?
Sadly, the answer is that without Tesco’s bucks Bill couldn’t afford to build 2 new stands at Goodison.
Uncle Bill in Kirkby or Uncle Boris in Anfield for a year then in Goddison? No easy answers.
21 Posted 29/05/2008 at 17:25:13
I was only quoting KW?s own words and I voted no so how does this make me naïve?
The move to Kirkby is in trouble because it is not popular and is in danger of being called in by the government. (please revisit his original statement and his more recent ones regarding the planning processes, if you choose to ignore my words). I never claimed to be an expert but I am a customer and I think I have a right to ask questions about both the process and the marketing that preceded the vote. Yes football clubs are a business but they are also a form of social enterprise and Everton more than most rely upon local patronage so they are not exempt from scrutiny from their supporters, or the communities they represent.
You believe that GP can?t be redeveloped, others including Trevor Skempton (Who worked on Newcastle?s ground) believe it can. It?s all about opinion Jim, people who sincerely believe that alternatives exist will continue to offer arguments, lobby politicians to try to influence what they believe is the wrong decision.
I find it mildly amusing that someone who can offer a ?creative? alternative to the current regulations regarding the Champions League qualification (Skyopoly post) gets so upset when other EFC supporters offer alternatives to Destination Kirkby? Or do you consider yourself more suitably qualified than UEFA officials to suggest a different way of doing things. I suspect you probably don?t, you just think that the ?layman? can sometimes perceive there are alternative strategies, novel solutions to apparently intractable problems.
22 Posted 29/05/2008 at 17:23:00
23 Posted 29/05/2008 at 16:55:55
24 Posted 29/05/2008 at 17:38:32
The little gem duly slotted it past said Dane into a Stretford End that had been demolished and was gradually being rebuilt. Despite the fact that Everton then went on to clinch a famous 3-0 victory and despite the fact that Old Trafford was undergoing extensive renovation, Manchester United somehow overcame such adversity and went on to clinch their first title in 26 years that season.
25 Posted 29/05/2008 at 17:48:12
"Same old, same old comments. Somehow everyones an expert"
Then proceed to give YOUR expert view, like yours is more valid than anyone elses??? I happen to agree with Tom Hughes initial plan, you dont. Fair enough but dont start slating peoples opinions & ideas cos they dont fit with your own, not having that mate
26 Posted 29/05/2008 at 17:50:52
you did promise to shut up.
St James Park has a smaller footprint than GP and is totally landlocked.
Strange that only holds 54000 atmospheric Geordies.
As you rightly say you (and I for that matter)are no experts.
FYI neither are KW or BK.
I prefer to rely on people such as Trevor Skempton a reputable architect who has worked on a number of large stadium projects and Tom Hughes a building engineer.
They both state that GP can be redeveloped to give a WORLD CLASS stadium holding 55000.
The big advantage of that is it can be done as we can afford it and does not need to be done all in one go with the consequent high level of borrowing.
Can we also bury the myth that Tesco are doing us a huge favour and making a financial contribution.
Tesco have already stated "They will not contribute financially" to the stadium cost.
Considering it will cost EFC millions (Everton’s own expert)to decontaminate the land in Kirkby I cant believe supporters still dont understand what sort of a stadium they’re getting for 78 million plus.
27 Posted 29/05/2008 at 18:32:02
If this is a reference to their personal hygiene regime I’ll have you know that the majority of them spend their entire lives naked from the waist up.
28 Posted 29/05/2008 at 19:07:18
I would love Goodison to become a world class stadium.......but what will be the cost??
150-200 mill plus........at least i think......
So the reason we have to move is financial!
we can’t afford to redevelop Goodison properly!
So, Tesco build a great new stadium in Kirkby at a minimal cost to EFC........other than location.......which is everybodys real bugbear....it is and will be a fantastic deal fot the football club!
Jim is right....it shouldn’t be him shutting up!...
Do you really think that the current board have not investigated the redevelopment of the olde lady......it really is sad that fellow supporters have to spread malicious rumour and innuendo to try and win an argument that has already been lost!
29 Posted 29/05/2008 at 19:36:35
30 Posted 29/05/2008 at 19:44:56
31 Posted 29/05/2008 at 19:58:25
Another good option.......but we can’t afford it!......unless we get sponsorship in the many millions!......we have to take a reality check.
.........with a possibility of losing our own identity.......even more so than the proposed move to our own stadium a few miles down the road!
It is the rs who don’t want us on board!......even after discussing purple seats at board level!...
32 Posted 29/05/2008 at 20:30:08
I think we should just sit tight until Kirkby falls through and Kenwright leaves.
33 Posted 29/05/2008 at 20:45:17
If it were to fall through you could hardly blame the board!.....
.........I would tend to look at the spurrious propoganda put forward by the no camp and poor but opportunistic local politicians
ps I think the people who bother to type on this website are mainly no voters......but in the big world i fear you are still a minority....sorry!
34 Posted 29/05/2008 at 20:52:23
Thanks for the tip on life in the "big world".
35 Posted 29/05/2008 at 20:57:01
a pleasure!.......reality is a wonderful thing!
yes.................i do blame them for the kings dock.....a tragedy!...
......but not kirkby........they and we just want what is best for our club........this is why emotions are taking over!
I voted yes to move for the overall good of the club.......and with heavy heart, but we must progress with the hope of competing on more of a level playing field with the rs, we won’t by staying where we are.....unfortunately!
I will feel let down if we fail to move through poor politicians and a smear campaign.
36 Posted 29/05/2008 at 21:54:43
There is a city council that is allowing the Red Shite to build their stadium on Green land but refusing us permission to extend Goodison and they are also now putting a complaint in about a prospective stadium being built outside their city and urging other councils to to the same. Even with the ineptitude of our board the way it is I have to place some blame on LCC doorstep should Kirkby go tits up.
37 Posted 29/05/2008 at 22:58:44
Ed forgive me but is there one single reference to Kirkby in any recent article I have posted - don’t see and read what’s not there, paranoia can be a terrible thing. The quote I used was taken direct from the official site or can that not be trusted either? I don’t get upset by the comments because everyone is entitled to have and express an opinion, but I won’t be misled by half baked ideas and a debate that in all truth is unlikely to have any impact on the custodians of the club. If Kirkby fails it will be for political reasons and not because of a vocal minority, and minority it still is until a reputable company like Gallup caries out a poll not KEIOC or anyone else with their own agenda - for or against. If that happens then I will be neither sad nor glad but redeveloping GP will never work.
38 Posted 29/05/2008 at 23:16:11
But the main point I was making was it is slightly smaller footprint than GP yet it has’nt stopped them building a 54000 seat stadium.
In fact there is only large stadium (over 50000) that’s in the premiership and that’s the emirates.
Eastlands only has 48000 and the rest are 34000 and less.
All the larger grounds are developed in situ.
39 Posted 29/05/2008 at 23:15:01
Only just spotted the thread, and therefore only glanced through people’s posts.
I see you mentioned Villa earlier. I’m sure you know that they bridged a road on the mainstand side and completely demolished a whole row of houses on the opposite side to build the Doug Ellis stand. Also St James’ is right up against a listed Georgian Terrace on one side, and the topography at the Gallowgate is problematic but they overcame it. ......will try to add more later bit busy at the mo.
40 Posted 29/05/2008 at 23:28:02
none of us really know the cost of developing GP until we look into it but I do know a couple of Stadium Architect/engineers who posted on here that we could turn Bullens road into a world class stand with corporate facilities and double tier the Park end for about 60/70 million and that would give us a capacity of 55000 or thereabouts. In the way they proposed it the capacity would not drop below 31000 and that for only one season.
When they tried to present it to BK his response was we’re in an exclusivity period.
41 Posted 29/05/2008 at 23:27:06
42 Posted 29/05/2008 at 23:42:46
I would love us to redevelop the old lady and turn her back to the great stadium she once was!
But....I fear it will cost too much money to do it as it should be done!
......and in the meantime the rs build their carbuncle and we slip further behind their money making machine and probably the rest of the premiership in money making terms.
I have been reliably informed by someone within the club....and i hope this person is right! that the new stadium will be a much smaller cost to efc than 78 mill.
If this is the case it is a great deal leaving us more money for team building etc.
I have also been informed that the price of the steel was a fixed quote given a while ago!
So, on simple costing alone the move seems to make sense.......it is a heart and head thing!
I believe the decision will be made very soon.
43 Posted 29/05/2008 at 22:43:19
It was the butt of cynical jokes for far too long.
Slowly but surely that stigma was cast off and now it is on the cusp of a bright new beginning.
The question is, will the people of Kirkby stand idly by while their one and possibly only glimmer of optimism is wrecked.
The anti stadium group had enormouse publicity on websites, the Post and Echo, TV and radio talkback, letter drops, public demonstrations and protest rallies yet they failed to get a single candidate over the line. It was as clear a demonstration as can be got of what the silent majority wants.
This at a time when nationwide labour was losing seats right left and centre.
Should a Labour controlled houses of parliament kow tow to surrounding Lib/Dem/Tory councils by subverting the clearly demonstrated wishes of its own supporters in one of its few remaining strongholds it would be tantamount to political suicide.
44 Posted 30/05/2008 at 00:03:38
Jim as somebody who has been to St James park and anybody else will tell you it is totally landlocked but to be fair to you it is the only example I could think of.
But the main point I was making was it is slightly smaller footprint than GP yet it has?nt stopped them building a 54000 seat stadium.
In fact there is only one NEW large stadium (over 50000) that?s in the premiership and that?s the emirates.
Eastlands only has 48000 and the rest are 34000 and less.
All the larger grounds are developed in situ.
45 Posted 30/05/2008 at 00:11:03
I’m sure it can be done.......but we just ain’t got the money to do it!
......plus we will have to battle for planning permission etc with the wonderful council we have!
it’s a toss up whether the s###te will be able to afford theirs............with interest payments of at least 30 mill a year!
Kirkby gives us a huge opportunity to think big again and escape from under the shadow of the rs!.......
If the location was anywhere else in the vicinity this would be called a masterstroke by the board!
.....and you have to ask the question......why is this plonker Bradley suddenly bleating!.....is it because he realises he has made a huge mistake and the club are doing the right thing!....and he is trying to save face!.....
46 Posted 30/05/2008 at 02:28:18
As a momento the club could even engrave the names of the volunteers into a plaque on the new stadium !
whos going to shoot me down then? haha