The Mail Bag
Fifa Quota Will Harm Us
Comments (27)
When I initially heard Blatter's ideas on limiting the number of foreign players in a team, I thought it was one of his better plans. I don't like seeing English clubs fielding teams devoid of Englishmen.,I also thought if it's going to hurt anyone it'll hurt the Sky 4... probably not so though.
If the Sky 4 teams are forced to play more Englishmen in league matches than they already have, where are they going to buy the English players from? The Championship? Unlikely. The more likely scenario will be that they'll raid clubs such as ourselves for the likes of Lescott, Baines and Jags, leaving us to then bring in English players of lesser quality, thus weaking our team. So whilst the quota ruling may weaken the Sky 4 clubs, it'll weaken clubs such as ourselves also... which can't be good for our European aspirations.
The likelihood is the EU will fight this ruling all the way and will at the very least stall it's implementation for a few years. Here's hoping anyway.
Paul O'Hanlon, Posted 31/05/2008 at 11:00:58
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Chris Dawson
2 Posted 31/05/2008 at 14:45:21
2 Posted 31/05/2008 at 14:45:21
If we do have to relinquish our star english players (and thats not to say that they will go!!!) then we would look to Moyes to bring in more talent from the championship.
The other way to look at it is that regardless of the 6+5 rule, there are 4 places in the Champions League and a number of UEFA cup places that are still up for grabs, this does not change. Taking this into consideration, the fact that good english players go to the sky 4 doesnt matter too much domestically, in europe it may affect us in the short term, but longer term the players that we play in the 6+5 would gain the PL and european experience instead of the foreign players.
This is obviously how FIFA are looking at it, now it may seem a little draconian but it could be effective.
We have one of the best academy set-ups in the country now from which we are already getting a reasonably steady stream of 1st team players, this is where the money that has been invested needs to reap its rewards to turn out the next generation of Everton stars.
The other way to look at it is that regardless of the 6+5 rule, there are 4 places in the Champions League and a number of UEFA cup places that are still up for grabs, this does not change. Taking this into consideration, the fact that good english players go to the sky 4 doesnt matter too much domestically, in europe it may affect us in the short term, but longer term the players that we play in the 6+5 would gain the PL and european experience instead of the foreign players.
This is obviously how FIFA are looking at it, now it may seem a little draconian but it could be effective.
We have one of the best academy set-ups in the country now from which we are already getting a reasonably steady stream of 1st team players, this is where the money that has been invested needs to reap its rewards to turn out the next generation of Everton stars.
Ron Leith
3 Posted 31/05/2008 at 14:58:16
3 Posted 31/05/2008 at 14:58:16
This plan will go down in the European Court of Human Rights. It a typical stunt by Blatter who has no interest in football it a stunt no more.
Ben Jones
4 Posted 31/05/2008 at 15:07:26
4 Posted 31/05/2008 at 15:07:26
I initially thought we would be OK, because we have enough English players in our team to cope.. but I had never thought of it in that way before.
But the EU should interfere as it is against the law. Blatter’s an idiot anyway.
But the EU should interfere as it is against the law. Blatter’s an idiot anyway.
Ian Reddish
5 Posted 31/05/2008 at 15:06:27
5 Posted 31/05/2008 at 15:06:27
To be honest agree with it, I?m fed up seeing football teams full of foreign players, but I also think we need to sort out our grass roots game, we need to start teaching kids the technical side of the game far more, get them playing proper football, teaching them skills, rather than just long punts like a lot of English players are used to.
John Charles
6 Posted 31/05/2008 at 15:20:02
6 Posted 31/05/2008 at 15:20:02
BUT!
If you were prepared now under the current rules and already had quality english players surely there is a gap and a year or two opportunity to nip in to the top 4 via the league placings and become a top4 team because we already have the starting point?
If you were prepared now under the current rules and already had quality english players surely there is a gap and a year or two opportunity to nip in to the top 4 via the league placings and become a top4 team because we already have the starting point?
Jay Harris
7 Posted 31/05/2008 at 15:21:27
7 Posted 31/05/2008 at 15:21:27
Totally agree with Ron Leith.
Its got no chance as we are all now legally European not English.
Its got no chance as we are all now legally European not English.
Simon Birdsey
8 Posted 31/05/2008 at 16:16:59
8 Posted 31/05/2008 at 16:16:59
I really don’t think that this ruling will get passed, not least because it’s ILLEGAL and because of the power of the big clubs.
if it did though, I think that it could actually work in our advantage, as quality English players would be at a premium and we could hold out for ridiculous sums for a Lescott or an Osman. As our side works mostly because of it’s work ethic, we would need to bring through athletic players, which are ten a penny, rather than individuals blessed with natural skill- although that would obviously be a bonus. Our tactic is to nick a goal and to sit back on it, whereas the onus on a Man U, Arsenal, Liverpool or Chelsea is to break a team down with creativity and flair.
Ofcourse, the big clubs will always look for loopholes, such as getting the more established foreign players such as Gilberto or Makelele to apply for dual citizenship, thus freeing up a foreign place. Alternatively, they’ll pinch academy players from other clubs for a pittance or establish feeder clubs to give them a further reach than their current catchment area.
Overall, it would be a good thing. As it would increase the pool of English talent for the national manager and it would put more of an emphasis on coaching touch and skill...that’s the theory atleast...more than likely, managers would opt for an English defensive unit of cloggers, not too disimilar to the famous 5 of Arsenal (excellent defenders, but not exactly what you’d call ball players), with either a big target man or a midfield enforcer. The creative positions would still be filled by foreigners, meaning that the national side would actually be not better off than it is now!
if it did though, I think that it could actually work in our advantage, as quality English players would be at a premium and we could hold out for ridiculous sums for a Lescott or an Osman. As our side works mostly because of it’s work ethic, we would need to bring through athletic players, which are ten a penny, rather than individuals blessed with natural skill- although that would obviously be a bonus. Our tactic is to nick a goal and to sit back on it, whereas the onus on a Man U, Arsenal, Liverpool or Chelsea is to break a team down with creativity and flair.
Ofcourse, the big clubs will always look for loopholes, such as getting the more established foreign players such as Gilberto or Makelele to apply for dual citizenship, thus freeing up a foreign place. Alternatively, they’ll pinch academy players from other clubs for a pittance or establish feeder clubs to give them a further reach than their current catchment area.
Overall, it would be a good thing. As it would increase the pool of English talent for the national manager and it would put more of an emphasis on coaching touch and skill...that’s the theory atleast...more than likely, managers would opt for an English defensive unit of cloggers, not too disimilar to the famous 5 of Arsenal (excellent defenders, but not exactly what you’d call ball players), with either a big target man or a midfield enforcer. The creative positions would still be filled by foreigners, meaning that the national side would actually be not better off than it is now!
Ray Robinson
9 Posted 31/05/2008 at 17:12:19
9 Posted 31/05/2008 at 17:12:19
If clubs are not prevented from EMPLOYING foreign players - which is all that European employment laws are about - then surely how is it illegal to restrict the number of foreigners available for SELECTION in any one match to a maximum of 6?
I think the 6/5 rule is a good one. I once met a young LFC goallie who had played in the reserves but who had been pushed out by Houllier in order to bring in a THIRD string French keeper. How is that good for the game and English talent?
I think the 6/5 rule is a good one. I once met a young LFC goallie who had played in the reserves but who had been pushed out by Houllier in order to bring in a THIRD string French keeper. How is that good for the game and English talent?
Phil Bellis
10 Posted 31/05/2008 at 18:05:14
10 Posted 31/05/2008 at 18:05:14
What is the position re Welsh, Irish and Scottish players in an English Premier League team? Are they deemed to be European? Would Cadiff, playing outside the Prem League, in England, have to field 6 Welsh players? Just wondering.
Neil Crossman
11 Posted 31/05/2008 at 18:40:44
11 Posted 31/05/2008 at 18:40:44
Placing a quota on English players will drive up the price of English players - basic supply and demand.
The exact inverse will happen with European players - less demand = more availability and lower prices.
Given our current position of having plenty of good English players, we would be in a fantastic starting position - we could pick off the foreigners who want premiership wages while the likes of Arsenal and Lpool scramble around for English players.
Over time the league will restore itself to the current position based on wealth. Could be a good for a bit though..!
The exact inverse will happen with European players - less demand = more availability and lower prices.
Given our current position of having plenty of good English players, we would be in a fantastic starting position - we could pick off the foreigners who want premiership wages while the likes of Arsenal and Lpool scramble around for English players.
Over time the league will restore itself to the current position based on wealth. Could be a good for a bit though..!
Neil Crossman
12 Posted 31/05/2008 at 18:57:17
12 Posted 31/05/2008 at 18:57:17
Having said that, it still won’t happen IMHO.
Rob McFawn
13 Posted 31/05/2008 at 19:17:25
13 Posted 31/05/2008 at 19:17:25
and knowing Everton we’d have big injury problems with our english players and end up having to field 16 year olds from the Academy for a big league match.
You’re completely right about the prices though, and another thing it would increase squad sizes especially in the sky 4
You’re completely right about the prices though, and another thing it would increase squad sizes especially in the sky 4
Paul OHanlon
14 Posted 31/05/2008 at 20:30:51
14 Posted 31/05/2008 at 20:30:51
You’re right there Rob. The richer clubs wouldn’t just buy 4 top English players, they’d have at least 8, plus quality youth backup to cover for injuries and suspensions. In the current climate we’d be relying on youth players such as Rodwell and Gosling. But as Chris Dawson said, in the long term the experience gained by these players would help them improve and reach the required level.
Keith Glazzard
15 Posted 31/05/2008 at 20:36:59
15 Posted 31/05/2008 at 20:36:59
There is no reason whatsoever to think that such a ruling would do anything to improve the technical quality of English or British players. When top teams were full of them, they saw no reason to change. What would be different now? Schools, local leagues, small semi-pro clubs? Where would these technically gifted players come from?
Leon Osman stands out of a good example of what can happen if coaches have faith in skill despite a kid being ’slightly built’. Good in the PL, good in Europe. We need more like him.
Blatter might get my vote if he told Rafael to fook off back home - but would that mean that Davey would have to go back north?
Leon Osman stands out of a good example of what can happen if coaches have faith in skill despite a kid being ’slightly built’. Good in the PL, good in Europe. We need more like him.
Blatter might get my vote if he told Rafael to fook off back home - but would that mean that Davey would have to go back north?
Dave Moorcroft
16 Posted 01/06/2008 at 02:31:28
16 Posted 01/06/2008 at 02:31:28
I would agree wholeheartedly with the principle of what Blatter is trying to do. The reason being is that, going back about 15 or 20 years ago on Merseyside, on any given Sunday in all leagues from Skelmersdale through the Walton and Kirkdale, Anfield and too many to name, there were about 7,500 kids playing football. Now because of the low expectancy that kids are not going to get the chance to prove themselves, less kids are getting involved because they see so many players from overseas (in their minds ,jumping the que).
I don't think anyone can argue that the big 4 are demanding instant succes when they buy players for £25M plus. So I think what he is trying to do is bring some sort of sanity back to our game. I think it's fantastic that at last someone is thinking about the grassroots of the game.
ps: I ran junior teams for 12 years.
Dave Moorcroft
17 Posted 01/06/2008 at 03:00:08
17 Posted 01/06/2008 at 03:00:08
Also RE my last post, Anything that takes away to an extent "Money is the be-all philosophy of the big 4" can only be a good thing. We have all witnessed how they behave when they don't get there own way, screaming at refs. If they happen to lose a game they show no dignity in defeat, they always blame the officials. Think Twattenburg, that's the only time I think I have ever heard the fat spaniard praise an official. That is why Blatter is bringing this rule in. Because them top 4 have become too powerful for the good of the game. It is no longer a game.
Dawn Lewis
18 Posted 01/06/2008 at 09:50:10
18 Posted 01/06/2008 at 09:50:10
Do you think Moyes/ Everton will sell knowing that they already have the correct quota of players for the new rules?And it?s homegrown players you need not just English as in the past. This means anybody who has trained with the club for more than 3 years in an academy, so Anichebe is classed as home grown too. Last season, in every game we already met the proposed quota, so I think it?s advantage to us as we were probably the only Premier League club to do it.
Tony Williams
19 Posted 01/06/2008 at 10:15:29
19 Posted 01/06/2008 at 10:15:29
I am still confused as why Septic Bladder is all of a sudden interested in the hopes of the "British Footballer"?
As Keith mentioned before, how will this help the international scene. Whoever is in charge of England will continue to pick the same XI again and agian and again, all this will do is force clubs to bring through younger players and weaken sides... oh wait, I get it, in truth he is pissed off that the English league teams are starting to piss on all the other leagues and is worried that it may have a detrimental effect on the money coming in, fuck all to do with "the good of the game"
They tried it once before with the 3 foreigner rule and it was disbanded so why do they think it will work now?
All that will happen is the Sky 4 will buy all the best English players and the teams below will fall drastically behind again. The only difference would be in Europe.
Can?t see it happening.
As Keith mentioned before, how will this help the international scene. Whoever is in charge of England will continue to pick the same XI again and agian and again, all this will do is force clubs to bring through younger players and weaken sides... oh wait, I get it, in truth he is pissed off that the English league teams are starting to piss on all the other leagues and is worried that it may have a detrimental effect on the money coming in, fuck all to do with "the good of the game"
They tried it once before with the 3 foreigner rule and it was disbanded so why do they think it will work now?
All that will happen is the Sky 4 will buy all the best English players and the teams below will fall drastically behind again. The only difference would be in Europe.
Can?t see it happening.
Luke Dunn
20 Posted 01/06/2008 at 10:54:48
20 Posted 01/06/2008 at 10:54:48
Look at what signing for one of the big 4 has done for the likes of SWP, Sidwell, Parker etc... they sat on the bench.
Players like Bentley were also forced to move to get regular football. The big 4 will not get all the UK players as some will want to opt for a regular game, rather than warming the bench, this in turn increases their chances of becoming internationals.
Players like Bentley were also forced to move to get regular football. The big 4 will not get all the UK players as some will want to opt for a regular game, rather than warming the bench, this in turn increases their chances of becoming internationals.
Laurie Hartley
21 Posted 01/06/2008 at 12:09:45
21 Posted 01/06/2008 at 12:09:45
I think this proposed rule is a good one but I wouldn?t like to see the overseas players disappearing from the Premier League. Players like Essien, Fabregas, Berbatov, Drogba etc bring a different style and skill set to our league. Surely over a period of time exposure to these players will have a positive impact on the English (British?) players and more importantly the kids who watch the games on televison.
What I don?t like is the ability of the clubs with the most money being able to lure away, with huge salaries, the best players who have either been recognised or brought through the academies of the less wealthy clubs. This is the real problem. Who doesn?t believe that we would have cracked the top 4 this season if we still had the best player that has come through Everton?s academy for years instead of being enticed away by a huge salary?
It?s a pipe dream but what I would like to see is each club having a salary cap for its first team squad AND a system of bonuses for the squad and appearance money for the individual players drawn from a ?Prize Money"pool. The higher the team achievement the bigger the bonus. The more appearances the more income for the individual players. The squad size for each Premier League club would have an upper limit of say 22 players. If a club got hammered by injuries it would have to draw on its academy players.
Then there is the question of the agents... but I have probably strayed too far off topic already.
Stuart Downey
22 Posted 01/06/2008 at 14:09:43
22 Posted 01/06/2008 at 14:09:43
It?ll be interesting for the ECJ (European Court of Justice). some issues:
1. Is this a restriction on the free movement of workers within the EU?
2. Is the issue affecting their employment? their job status, their wage etc?
3. What affect will the "homegrown players" rule have?
With the amount of money involved this WILL go to the ECJ, theres more than enough to get it there. Personally I think it would be good for the game, and good for British players.
I don?t think this 6/5 rule would stop players moving, it simply limits their chances of playing. That is going to be a key issue when the decision is made at the ECJ.
I think that although the big clubs may get the best British talent, the smaller clubs may get the best of the rest as the bigger clubs lose out on the better foreign talent through limitation.
I don?t think this is a stonewall issue, as there are arguments for and against, and I believe it will go all the way to a full vote at the ECJ
1. Is this a restriction on the free movement of workers within the EU?
2. Is the issue affecting their employment? their job status, their wage etc?
3. What affect will the "homegrown players" rule have?
With the amount of money involved this WILL go to the ECJ, theres more than enough to get it there. Personally I think it would be good for the game, and good for British players.
I don?t think this 6/5 rule would stop players moving, it simply limits their chances of playing. That is going to be a key issue when the decision is made at the ECJ.
I think that although the big clubs may get the best British talent, the smaller clubs may get the best of the rest as the bigger clubs lose out on the better foreign talent through limitation.
I don?t think this is a stonewall issue, as there are arguments for and against, and I believe it will go all the way to a full vote at the ECJ
Andy Callan
23 Posted 02/06/2008 at 12:28:14
23 Posted 02/06/2008 at 12:28:14
Personally I think that it is a great idea, but alas this thing has no chance of getting through.
It is that same as salary caps and squad caps; clubs will argue that is a restrition of trade, which it is in effect.
If FIFA impose all these mad changes (that would improve the game) the ’top’ teams will simply fuck FIFA off and start their own break-away league.
Money talks, bullshit runs the marathon.......
It is that same as salary caps and squad caps; clubs will argue that is a restrition of trade, which it is in effect.
If FIFA impose all these mad changes (that would improve the game) the ’top’ teams will simply fuck FIFA off and start their own break-away league.
Money talks, bullshit runs the marathon.......
Ciarán McGlone
24 Posted 02/06/2008 at 13:02:53
24 Posted 02/06/2008 at 13:02:53
I guess that one thing has emerged from this whole daft saga....and that’s an overwhelming feelign that FIFA is run by a bunch of thick muppets...
After being told by the European Commission on equality that it was a non-starter ..this halfwit Blatter continues with his one-eyed exercise in flippant arrogance and ignorance...with the words ’laws can be ammended’...
I can’t wait until he actually realises that European directives are there for a reason, especially ones on employment law! and has to backtrack like michael jackson!
However, the legality of this concept aside.....I’d love to hear how anyone thinks this would improve the English naitonal game...an outcome that seems akin to grasping at straws....
After being told by the European Commission on equality that it was a non-starter ..this halfwit Blatter continues with his one-eyed exercise in flippant arrogance and ignorance...with the words ’laws can be ammended’...
I can’t wait until he actually realises that European directives are there for a reason, especially ones on employment law! and has to backtrack like michael jackson!
However, the legality of this concept aside.....I’d love to hear how anyone thinks this would improve the English naitonal game...an outcome that seems akin to grasping at straws....
Tony Williams
25 Posted 02/06/2008 at 13:29:41
25 Posted 02/06/2008 at 13:29:41
Ciaran, that is exactly what I was saying. Why would this suddenly make the ordinary British players better?
All that would happen is that they would have to play more games and turn teams back into Bolton, or dare I say it, us of a season or two ago.
It will not come to pass, especially as the EU have already told the dope it is a non starter. Then again isn’t this the man who said that all women footballers should play in tight shorts?
All that would happen is that they would have to play more games and turn teams back into Bolton, or dare I say it, us of a season or two ago.
It will not come to pass, especially as the EU have already told the dope it is a non starter. Then again isn’t this the man who said that all women footballers should play in tight shorts?
Ciarán McGlone
26 Posted 02/06/2008 at 14:05:58
26 Posted 02/06/2008 at 14:05:58
Indeed Tony..
I’ve heard the argument about players getting better coaching under this rule...but lets look at the downsides...
1) the league would be of worse quality
2) revenues from sky would go down
3) the best foreign players would no longer find England attractive
4) English players are now playing with players of considerably less quality than before, thus there will be no incentive to raise their game
So, is the idea of better coaching that important to a players ability that it will overcome the above factors?
Not on your nellie, England will still be cráp...and it’ll have a cráp league to compliment the cráp national side!
p.s All women should play in tight shorts...
Now thats the breaching of a EU regulation I could live with!
I’ve heard the argument about players getting better coaching under this rule...but lets look at the downsides...
1) the league would be of worse quality
2) revenues from sky would go down
3) the best foreign players would no longer find England attractive
4) English players are now playing with players of considerably less quality than before, thus there will be no incentive to raise their game
So, is the idea of better coaching that important to a players ability that it will overcome the above factors?
Not on your nellie, England will still be cráp...and it’ll have a cráp league to compliment the cráp national side!
p.s All women should play in tight shorts...
Now thats the breaching of a EU regulation I could live with!
Tony Williams
27 Posted 02/06/2008 at 14:15:16
27 Posted 02/06/2008 at 14:15:16
I suppose that Septic Bladder is correct about the tight shorts but I was pretending to be all PC!!
This law, if passed, would only have a detrimental effect on English teams and probably no others.
This law, if passed, would only have a detrimental effect on English teams and probably no others.
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1 Posted 31/05/2008 at 14:51:30