Thanks, Gareth. If he's a public official, there should be no problem providing those details for us to put on this thread, so that people can e.mail him directly.

I think you’ll find that the Government will only look at this as anything to do with EFC as part of any decision - the biggest issue for them is more likely to be the regeneration of one of the ’top 5’ poorest areas in the country - and that you can’t argue with.

Whether we as Everton supporters want it to happen is out of our hands I’m afraid - fact.

I don't live in Liverpool anymore or have a season ticket like I had in the 90s but I do still make it over often enough and still hope to. For whatever reason, and there are lots of them, we should not be moving to Kirby. Wyness has not a fucking clue. He has no feeling for this club. This will be the death of us. Its time for a mass protest organised through the various forums to gather together as many people as possible that are against this idea. Micheal & Lyndon, why not be our leaders. Do something please. Stop this, somebody take the lead. Get the national media involved. Do whatever it takes...

Gareth, whether James is right or not I’d still like to make my feelings known to the guy at Government Office North West so please post his email address, as Michael says.

I would like to be passed the relevent persons contact details, please.

I personally think individual representations would have a greater impact on the GONW.

There is also a template letter on the KEIOC website.

I for one hope the person at the Government Noth West office ignores all your e-mails. As I would hate any paid government official to make decisions based on a number of emotional supporters of a football team, when there is amuch bigger issue at stake - mainly the regeneration of Kirkby.

To the national government, what happens to Everton is of little importance, and therefore I would hope that a few passionate supporters won?t make a difference to his decision.

I understand that people who don?t want to move feel they need to do something, but it is now out of the hands of anybody connected to the football club (and that includes the board), as the whole re-development of the area is at stake of which the new stadium is a small part.

I would like the contact details please, I will definitely be sending him a letter!

Thank you!

Earth to Gareth ! I think there may be quite a few folks on here that would like the info that you have.

Details please.

Keep e-mailing Bradley and LCC by the way and tell them to have a proposition ready to put on the table if this falls through. Groundshare or a viable site in the City. BK will have to talk if Kirkby goes tits up.

Just keep it pleasant and to the point with no abuse or swearing.

I hope the information becomes freely available so both sides can voice their opinion.

What you don’t seem to understand is what is the alternative??? None of you are offering solutions, just making problems.

Secondly there has been a vote on the issue, and regardless of how many people are willing to admit it, a clear majority voted yes.

So when you say ’thousands of fans don’t want it’, remember, more fans voted in favour of it!

If you had a feasible alternative then fair enough but too much of this entire debate is people scoffing at one idea without offering any alternative.

We need to move/improve Goodison and at the moment this is the only option.

Ted, the sooner this project collapses the sooner we’ll be able to find a better alternative. Haven’t you heard of the exclusivity agreement in place?

Post the details please!!

I’d not only post them on here, I’d stick em on Bluekipper, WSAG, NSNO and even KEIOC.

My only fear is if the man is barraged with nonsense e-mails then he will ignore all so keep comments sensible and to the point, I would urge.

Bad news folks!

It will make no difference whatsoever how many people write to GONW re. this issue. Yes,GONW can make a recommendation to CLG to ’call it in’,however this would have to be based on specific grounds to do so.
I have this on the best possible authority and I will say no more than that.Take a look at the following links (all available in the public domain) to see where things stand.


http://www.gos.gov.uk/gone/planning/planning_casework/planning_applications/call_in/departures/

http://www.gos.gov.uk/gone/planning/planning_casework/planning_applications/call_in/


http://www.gos.gov.uk/gone/planning/planning_casework/planning_applications/requests_callin/

http://www.gos.gov.uk/gone/planning/planning_casework/planning_applications/how_assess/



Basically,our only hope is the other local councils sustaining their objections and I would think that supporting them full tilt would prove more useful.The future of this club depends on it now!

Ted, If your saying that theres no alternatives or people are not suggesting any then I’d like to direct you to a site called www.keioc.net. There are plenty of other sites that could have also been the "deal of the century". If you are happy to let the club be taken from underneath you then fine, but please dont comment on people trying to save the club from the "greedy" Mr Wyness.
Please post the email address and as stated previously there is a template on keioc.

Having visited the KEIOC site, it is intersteing to read the comments made with regard to this issue.

I have read the letter they have drafted and it states a number of reasons why it should be "called in"

Is this a last ditch attemp to de-rail a project that has been passed and is ready to go.

In the absence of any response from Gareth or Michael I have looked up the email for the Government office which is :

gonwmailbox@gonw.gsi.gov.uk

I have written to ask who to contact and will post it when I get a reply.

Assuming Gareth posts the contact details... PLEASE use KEIOC’s template doc as a guide rather than it end up with Evertonians bombarding GONW with emotional diatribes about our club when the reasons for calling it in surround the excessive nature of Tesco’s retail component for a town of Kirkby’s size.

If it pulled the plug on Kirkby what would the government gain or lose by way of votes ,
Knowsley’s Labour council want it, Tescos, a strong Labour sponsor want it, Everton and a majority of its supporters want it, local members of parliament want it and most importantly, the Labour voting majority of Kirkby people want it.
Those against it on principle is a vociferous yet minute proportion of merseysiders.
Against but purely for financial greed is a grouping of Tory councils plus a few businesses.

Go figure.

Just a bit more info while we wait for the name of the official in charge:

Contact information
Send email enquiries, including Freedom of Information / Access to Information enquiries, to this address:
email: gonwmailbox@gonw.gsi.gov.uk

Manchester Office
City Tower
Piccadilly Plaza
Manchester
M1 4BE
tel: 0161 952 4000
fax: 0161 952 4099

Liverpool Office
Cunard Building
Pier Head
Water Street
Liverpool
L3 1QB
tel: 0151 224 6300
fax: 0151 224 6470

Sorry about the delay folks - here is the info you need :

Michael Ashton
Michael.ashton@gonw.gsi.gov.uk
Manchester Office
City Tower
Piccadilly Plaza
Manchester
M1 4BE
Tel - 0161 952 4000
Fax - 0161 952 4099

His tel no is not a direct line but lets be honest he’s not going to be taking calls from us all is he !!

I say lets have the information of the official.It’s time for us to act to stop this disgrace of a move going ahead.

I continue to chortle at all the eleventh hour frenetic scurrying around from folks who have been telling us for months the stadium move ’simply wont happen’ for whatever reason. TW Gold. ;)

G Madden, get a life. Either contribute with a reason why people shouldn?t contact GONW or go to another site with your smug little chortle's and winks. And when I say another site I mean one where other people consistently post idiotic and annoying comments, like 606.

Well said, Paul...wondered when ’G Madden’ would wiggle his arse over the parapet. He wouldn’t have the guts to voice his smugness amongst Evertonians, face to face. He who chortles last....

This was taken off the GONW website

Requests to Call-in an Application
Anyone can ask the Secretary of State to call-in a planning application. If you wish to do so, please contact us as soon as possible after the authority has registered the application and well before the day when it expects to reach a decision. It is normally too late if you wait until after the authority has made its decision.

Give us as much information as possible about the application, including:

the application reference number
a map of the location
a description of the proposal
an outline of your concerns, especially any potential conflict with national policy.
We deal with requests to call-in applications in much the same way as we handle applications that authorities have formally notified to us. Normally, we are unlikely to consider requests until we have received further information from the authority, which might be relevant to the Secretary of State’s decision. This will probably include a copy of the application, plans, any relevant supporting documents and a copy of the Council officers’ appraisal or Committee report. We will probably want to know if the authority thinks it will need to notify the Secretary of State formally of the application, and if the authority?s officers are recommending members to grant planning permission.

Please note that the Secretary of State is very selective about calling-in planning applications.

Now is the time for letting the politicians in this democratic country know what a lot of the people at the self-styled "People’s Club" want

errr hasn’t there been a democratic vote?

Ted Roberts (that’s a realistic name!) says..

"What you don?t seem to understand is what is the alternative??? None of you are offering solutions, just making problems"

There is (on this site!) a plan to rebuild Goodison that was put together in 2000.

There have been others.

Fact: ’Ted’ (and a lot of other Teds) don’t want to hear them.

Mark you say "errr hasn?t there been a democratic vote?"

No.

Democracy allows all those eligible to vote, to vote.

Everyone on here knows someone who got the forms late, didn’t get the forms at all, etc.

(Not surprising - the board of Everton FC couldn’t run a fucking bath).

Ian Ross, erm sorry Gerry what's his name would surely make a few Yes voters switch with his side splitting banter on this and other websites, what is the point of you?

Just read some of your comedy crap on KEIOC site, at least when this is all over we won't hear from you as other topics like team affairs etc just don't seem to bring you to your keyboard, makes you wonder don't it?

EJ

Try and find a comparable new stadium at a comparable price?

The one we missed big time was the Kings Dock.....which we all agree on!......but even that was a shared stadium!.........very nice shared stadium all the same!

The others?....the loop?.....A JOKE!

Just because you don’t agree with Kirkby don’t mean that the board is all bad!

Remember ’this board’ has bought some good players recently!

With regards to the vote, how else were the club to do it?

A minute minority were unable to vote, it doesn’t take anything away from the outcome!, it happens in every voting system all over the world, nothing is perfect.

Gareth

Thanks for letting us know his contact details.

Very kind of you to let the "Yes" voters how to contact this guy to ensure the project goes ahead....

Cheers!

Colin, I thought it was Moyes who bought those good players?

You’re not seriously going to suggest that we’ve been able to afford these players because of good business management? They’ve sold off everything we own from the training ground, to the club stores to remortgaging the ground, they’ve had record money poured into the club from Sky, they budget for 17th every season and Moyes consistently finishes top 6...and they STILL had to borrow to afford Yakubu last summer!



Which is why yourself and others are now desperate for us to move to a mid-range stadium in a small town, cos the board have fucked up bringing in any REAL investment!

Paul

Have they really?

You could say ....depending on which side of the fence you are on that they have maximised what they had?

How much debt are we in compared to other clubs?, we pull in very little corporate in comparison to most other premiership clubs and we can still bring in big players!....

Yes, Moyes has been fantastic for us....but don’t tell me the board has done nothing at all......just because you don’t agree with Kirkby!

Every club has to borrow money, unless they have a sugar daddy....or mummy!......or hope they sell another Rooney!

So desperate to move no!.......desperate for Everton to move forward and compete ....yes.

We are struggling to compete now, we need new income streams.....where do we get these from?

A Russian billionaire perhaps.....two yanks?.....it is not that easy!

So we have taken the ’brave’ decision......to move ground to a few miles from Goodison, which because Liverpool is a small city is outside the city boundaries...so what!...

There are no real alternatives....on a cost for cost basis, why?.....because it is cheap!......why?......because we have a great multinational company as a partner, who are helping us because they need the development!

So in essence, if this project was within the city limits you would be more than happy!, sometimes though we don’t get what we want and have to compromise for the good of the club, this is the time.

So, yes I will agree with you that the board, as you so eloquently stated ’f.....d up!’ on the Kings Dock but it is easy to throw stones when there are nobody to throw them back!

...and as for mid range....doesn’t this just describe the capacity...not anything else!

ps the club haven’t sold the club stores just given jjb the contract at a few mill for a number of seasons......

Chris Braddon - Sorry to come across all parochial but this site isn’t about Kirkby town centre and its wellbeing, its about Everton.
Ted Roberts - This thread is not about the rights and wrongs of the move. Its about thousands and thousands of people who are not happy with it and giving them the tools to raise their objections. You are obviously all for the move and whilst I respect the opposing view others strongly disagree with it and more importantly its repercussions.
Bob Turner - Please see above - the deal is, at present, going ahead unless the GONW recommend otherwise. As such I’m not quite sure what your sarcasm achieves other than highlighting the fact that you are a smug baffoon.

Gareth, I’ll take being called a "baffoon" as a compliment, I’ve been called a lot worse by you lot before now.

Gareth
Do what you feel is right mate
ignore the gullible and the treacherous

Dave

nobody is gullible.......naughty!

We are all adults....i think.......hoping that we have made the right decision.

Nobody knows what the future holds, so why deride people for their opinion, we all want what we think is best for the club!.

Colin
I wasn't deriding people for their opinion
Turner and the person who posts as Madden, didn't offer an opinion They posted only to provoke Proper Evertonians
Look at Turners post and tell me he isn?t gullible
Then look at Madden's and tell me he isn?t treacherous.

Dave

thought you were having a general pop.....my apologies!!

Colin, we’re still able to bring in players firstly because of the pull we have thanks to how well the teams performed recently, and secondly because the board have been able to borrow money from various sources. I understand our revenue is lower than other clubs in the league but who’s fault is that? Who are the people paid handsomely to run the club and increase our revenue streams? Are you seriously telling me that you think they’ve done well???

I’m also desperate for us to move forward and compete, and I’m happy for us to move to a new stadium, but can you seriously see the Kirkby stadium increasing our income to the level we need?

What you call a brave decision I call a bad one, but as you say, it depends what side of the fence you’re on.

You say there’s no real alternatives, but until the board stop spouting off about this ridiculous exclusivity agreement and sit down with OTHER possible enabling partners such as Bestway, Sainsburys, LCC and anyone else who may want to speak to us, how can we know how viable they are?

And if you think the term "mid-range" was aimed solely at the capacity of the stadium, take a look again at the latest photo’s! You can’t seriously tell me they make you proud? And isn’t that what we should be aspiring for, a stadium to make us proud? You’re answer to that will be we can’t afford anything better but I’ll say again...who’s fault is that??

Wilson

Saying "No" to Kirkby makes you a "Proper Evertonian", does it? And saying "Yes" to Kirkby makes me gullible? Oh, and treachorous?

Somewhat pathetic and yet sadly desperate about trying to question my Evertonian credentials - but I guess you’re a better Evertonian than me....

My mistake...

Paul

In comparison to what they inherited I think the present board are doing a good job, not brilliant, but good.

I think Kirkby will increase our revenue stream, history suggests it will!....look at other clubs who have built new stadia!



As a club we have been looking at new investment but it has to be right in the long term....I mean look at Man City.......I fear for them!

The exclusivity deal, i’ve got no problem with as long as the club has extinguished all alternatives, and I know alternative sites were sought prior to this.

The stadium, again subjective, I personally think it looks good. But many won’t, the proof of the pudding will be when it is built!

I agree that Kirkby would not have been my first choice, but as a value for money price you can’t beat it and as I have said before if it was in the city boundary there would be no problems with it at all.

I just feel we have to be realistic, we will not be paying an extra 30 plus million a season in interest for a new stadium like the rs and hopefully it will provide the extra investment we need.

I suppose it is a gamble for the club, but so is staying at GP with the carbuncle on the park being built nearby, Iis it the right decision, I hope so, but only time will tell!

As Gavin pointed out yesterday, we have the only CEO in the city who is not trying to make money out of the capital of culture, it is gross missmanagement, but then again so is expecting to move from a thriving city to a town on the outskirts and expecting to bring along thousands of new rich corporate blues, whilst threatening the future fanbase from areas like wirral and beyond, before we even face the onslaught that will become "one team one city" because believe me ,the shite will have a major plan over a period of time to grab the young children of tommorow once we leave the city.

Cant we leave all this crap to keioc? Remember the MAJORITY of blues dont want this on here. Keep it to KEIOC then the MINORITY know where to go.

Quote "Assuming Gareth posts the contact details... PLEASE use KEIOC?s template doc as a guide rather than it end up with Evertonians bombarding GONW with emotional diatribes about our club when the reasons for calling it in surround the excessive nature of Tesco?s retail component for a town of Kirkby?s size."

Sorry for being a stirrer and I don’t want to get involved in the Kirkby debate, what happens happens is my opinion. But I was reading this thread and I noticed this comment of yours Lyndon, now I understand that you are trying to keep any protest reasonable, by implementing a template. However, most if not all of the people on here would disagree from a purely Everton perspective and couldn’t care less about the Tesco retail development.

Moreover, a lot of the people on here are not from Kirkby and so would not be subjected to any changes in Kirkby’s development apart from a purely Everton standpoint.

So to get to my point, in encouraging people to use this statement aren’you suggesting they basically lie, or for want of a better word misrepresent their standpoint. Personally I agree there should be a template for any objection but it should not be based around this area unless that is the persons main cause for the objection.

Too late I know but can anyone remind us of the size of the yes vote as a percentage of the total number of eligible votes.

Dunno who i’d like to meet in a dark alley the most?? Phil Thompson or Gerrard Madden??

Colin

I think Kirkby will increase our revenue stream, history suggests it will!....look at other clubs who have built new stadia!

Who exactly has moved to another town 9 miles from their home city?

As a club we have been looking at new investment but it has to be right in the long term....I mean look at Man City.......I fear for them!

No we have not. KMBC have said so.

I have no problem with Wyness wanting to start a football club in Kirkby, but how the hell did he end up destroying the one club I have spent 40 years of blood sweat and tears on to enable him to carry this out ?

Desperation time from the Keioc disciples. Once again reverting to personal attacks. I personally cant wait to sit in a modern stadium with decent facilities

Tom

The club has been looking for new investment. kw has again been taken out of context!

9 miles now!......getting bigger, ranges from 4 to 9.

Let’s call it 6 for sake of argument.......i don’t know, only history will know whether it is the correct decision, but the new stadium does give us a chance to compete at minimal cost to the club in comparison to other schemes.

What alternatives have been offered by keioc, who have cosied up with the council leader....there is still no viable alternative!

You will say, well it’s not up to them! But surely lcc must take some responsibility in all this. They obviously don’t want us in the City!

and don’t mention the loop, I cannot understand why Walton Park wasn’t pushed more, but is that a red herring like the loop?....I certainly can’t see LCC allowing 2 parks to be used, can you?

So in my humble opinion, we, as a club have been pushed into a corner.....on purpose, who knows?....we are going where we are wanted,with a hope we can compete better on a financial basis.

There is no reason why the club should be destroyed, it might just be the making of us, who knows?

I'll say it again, congratulations to the Yes voters you poor deluded fools, I hope you all enjoy watching our demise. No voters we?re a disgrace for letting this happen. I?m sorry this just won't be my Everton anymore. as the song goes "So please don't take my Everton away" but you have. Kenwright, Wyness, Madden etc.

Joe Crosby...Eh?, Yer what?

Guy...you’ll have plenty of leg-room and no queuing for a corporate pint, sunshine

Bob Turner

I dont believe you are a lesser Evertonian for voting yes, not sure why you keep saying that

Read your post again
IMO it was either
(A) Gullible : as you seem unaware that the case for moving has already been submitted
(B) Treacherous : You knew that was the case, but decided to post a Maddenesque comment designed to upset proper Evertonians
Either way, you didnt seem to want to offer anything to the debate

Colin

I am glad you concede that the move to Kirkby is a huge gamble. I sincerely believe it is the wrong move for the club on many levels. But if I am honest it was my initial instinctive reaction to the idea of Destination Kirkby that I think may still prove to be the biggest problem for the club. My emotional response to the news was a mixture of incredulity that it was a hoax allied to a feeling that this could not happen. Before people start berating me for not being rational most decisions that people make (whether they think they are being rational or not) are based on feeling and emotion. The feeling I got when I looked at the plans (World class or otherwise) and the supporting marketing was that it looked fake.
To my way of thinking it?s a little like buying a fake piece of clothing it looks like an Hugo Boss shirt (or whatever your personal choice is) from a distance, it just does not quite feel right. I think the problem that many Evertonians have got is that the relationship and feeling they have for the club has changed forever. The nature of the marketing, the eligibility criteria for the vote, the belligerence of Wyness as a CEO have all compounded that initial feeling that Kirkby was not right for Everton. At best there are at least 10,000 people feeling pretty aggrieved and surely even the most ardent of yes voters would agree that the campaign for DK is more likely to have swelled these numbers. This does not account for the many match going Blues who attend regularly but do not buy season tickets.
The whole shoddy behaviour of the club over this issue has resulted (threatening to sue its own fans, rarely engaging in any form of debate) in me questioning whether I will follow them to Kirkby. I won?t go to DK and I suspect many others won?t either some posters may try portray this as petulance (sulking I think some people laughably called it) but in reality I now feel disconnected from the club I have followed avidly all my life. I do respect those people who voted yes, as I long as they respect those who think that this move will spell the demise not renaissance of Everton Football Club. For an organisation that trades upon a comment made by their manger ?The Peoples Club? I believe the conduct of the clubs marketing and PR particularly in relation to its own fans has been cavalier at best and potentially disastrous at worst. Surely a business that had 10,000 (and that?s a minimum) alienated customers would be trying to find out what their objections were and most importantly what their future intentions are. The arrogance of Wyness and the therefore the club is that supporters loyalty is unwavering, so let?s not enter into any dialogue with those who might start raising awkward questions. You are right Colin it is a gamble and one of the biggest aspects of the gamble is how the club will attract new fans, whilst retaining every single person of its remaining fan base.
PS Alan Willo ? How can you possibly defend reading the Sun after what they printed about Liverpool fans at Hillsborough? They defiled a whole City and the reality is that many Blues had relatives and friends there. I take it you were at Villa Park that day and remember the atmosphere on the way back, watching people in tears or anxiously trying to get news about loved ones. I don?t care if you are a Tory, the comment you made was a fucking disgrace

Dave

It’s the phrase "proper Evertonians" - don’t you see what you’re implying with its constant use?

I have offered plenty to the debate before, though not on this thread, I’ll grant you.

To be honest, I’m tired of us bickering amongst ourselves, when we’ve got a great chance to move on next season, and get into the Top 4, hopefully at the expense of the RS.

Although I’m in favour of the move, I just wish something would be decided either way, then we can move on and get back to supporting the team.

Roll on the new season!

Seeing as you are going to copy the KEIOC template and argue about the problems of retial development and its effect on the region. Does this mean you will no longer be complaining about the ?lies? of Bill & Keith as you will be doing exactly the same thing.

You will be demanding a public inquiry based on an issue you are not interested in. If you want openess & honesty from the Everton board, then you have to provdie it yourselves.

The only reason you object to the development is related to EFC and nothing to do with the regeenration of Kirkby.

I was half way through writing a long repost to all the comments when I deleted it. Whats the point.

Evertonians are born not manufactured, We do not choose, We are chosen, Those who understand need no explanation, those who don?t understand.....don?t matter!

I feel much the same way about Kirkby. Those who understand that it will tear the heart out of Everton need no explanation, those who don't understand, well...you don't matter.

It's not a test of credentials as an Evertonian, but simple a reality test. If you like mediocrity, then that's not a realistic move forward.

What upsets me the most is that its not our generation that will be most affected by this selfish move but the next generation and the generation after that. I hasten to say there will be third generation Evertonians. Only old men with memories of a once great football club.

Paul

I was about to bite..

But then I, too, figured, what’s the point. I don’t matter.

Sad, very sad...

If you like mediocrity the best thing to do is stay at Goodison, cos with reduced finances and a falling down stadium, in a few years that is exactly what you will get.

There will be little chance of outside investment, and a steady downward progression until you will be dreaming of UEFA qualification.

The fact is that those of us happy to move to Kirkby DO matter, we just don?t make as much noise as the ones who don?t, mainly cos of comments like yours which imply we can?t be true fans or stupid or ignorant.

Most Yes voters don?t post on sites such as this due to the negative comments and insults that follow them from people who object to Kirkby.

I am a true fan with a mind of my own who sees Kirkby as the only realistic option at present, and as such am prepared, however reluctantly, to leave Goodison fo the sake of Everton Football Club.

Paul,

Do you not think you’re catastrophising a bit? I think when this is resolved (whatever the outcome is, go or stay) we have to accept what happens. You can be gutted and bitter all your life and fuck Everton off, or be pissed off, put up with the change, move on and support the team, which it needs. Whether we move or not, I’ll be supporting the Blues, going to all the matches and not going to think life is over because we stayed or moved. COYB.

Damian says: "Whether we move or not, I?ll be supporting the Blues, going to all the matches and not going to think life is over because we stayed or moved. COYB"

This sentence is for me (and maybe a few others) is key to this whole issue

And the key KEY bit is ’The Blues’

Fact: It’s no good those in favour of a move trying to convince (all) those against, that ’The Blues’ will STILL be the ’the Blues’

For some, they will be of course, but for others (ie: me) they won’t.

Who WILL they be?

A team calling themselves Everton FC who play nowhere NEAR the district of Everton.

In much the same way as the MK Dons have fuck all to do with Wimbledon.

Yes the distance is more and...so what?

The important thing is they’re not in Wimbledon.

Tell you who are though - AFC Wimbledon.

Its funny that there are so many vocal ?NO? voters now. Where were you all at the time of the vote eh?? Oh that's right I bet hardly any of you got a vote because you hardly go to any games and dont have a season ticket, I bet you?re the type that pick and choose the so called best games and don't bother spending your hard earned money on the Sunderland and Birmingham type games. And don't give me crap about not being able to afford it etc because even Evertonia members got a vote and that costs about £25 a year.

I'm sure there are some genuine fans that voted NO so appologies to them, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion, personally I think the club is screwed either way, I didn't want us to leave the city boundaries, even though its only about a mile outside them, but if we stay at Goodison then we will just be left to rot by other clubs. Face it, there is no viable alternative in the city that the club can afford!

EJ

There are people who have stated on TW that they will refuse to go to Kirkby, but will still go to the away matches?

I’m just wondering which Everton they are watching when they go to these away matches?

EJ
Is right lad

The distance between GP and Kirkby may be shorter than the distance between Plough Lane and Milton Keynes but this betrayal - and that's what it is - is fucking unforgiveable.

Bob Turner

People who voted no, did so for all sorts of different reasons
As EJ says, for some blues Kirkby will be the final straw
I read an article the other day and it made me want to lash my pc out of the window

Gavin travels with two very loyal disabled blues, the park and ride scheme at DK will make life difficult for them to say the least

Gavin Stated he would be more likely to go to away grounds than Kirkby
He isnt turning his back on the club, its the other way round

Anthony

Do the fucking maths mate, over 10,000 voted no when we were getting a world class stadium, costing next to nothing with a state of the art transport system as promised by KW. You allude that somehow all these no voters have just appeared??

Bob I think you make a fair point about fans who would watch them away but not at home, although I suspect for some of us it will simply stop us going all together.

Bob, you specifically address to me..

"There are people who have stated on TW that they will refuse to go to Kirkby, but will still go to the away matches?"

Not sure why me, but...fine, not a problem.

Ok, re your piece - I have four questions.

1) Yeah?

2) And?

3) So?

4) Fucking What?

"There are people who have stated"!?

(OH MY GOD PEOPLE WHO HAVE ST...)

Bob, there are ’people who have stated’ all kinds

Look I’ll try one myself.

AHEM!

There are people who have stated ’I’ll follow the blues wherever they play’"

Will they?

Some sure but for others, I suspect that after waiting an hour-and-a-half in the pissing rain for a train, after a Monday night game at The Kirkby Met Stadium (K-Blues 0 Hull 0), many of them will think "FUCK THIS SHITE!!"

Just a guess like, I don’t KNOW that will happen.

Sorry Bob, but with the best will in the world, why ask me about what other people will do?

I think I’ve made my position, FOR ME, crystal fucking clear

Apologies...I did not mean dont matter...but rather dont understand the matter in hand!

I am not in disagreement with any of the three answers after my post...in fact I think they where honest about being what we all are: blues...regardless of time, place ect ect ground!

My real point was this is boring...its missing the point...we will always go to watch the blues, but supporting a club, and starting to support a club as a child is more than having a good stadium. Sometimes its your parents, your dad, familiy, location, area, class, belonging, because your best mate at school supports them, because you dont like red.
A lot of these reasons are trivial, but location and area certainly are not, and neither is perception. The clubs outward perception will be damanged forever.

For us already blues of many years this doesnt matter but for an arguement down the pub...for aspiring young blues....fathers trying to usher sons in the right direction...perception is everything in the 21st century and will continue to be a bigger issue.

Now I have babbled...I am not totally against Kirkby...I just think its a very poor option....money orientated...and most of all suffers from a lack of imagination...and a lack of faith in the possiblities of liverpool, the city and its people.

Anthony, have you ever thought of the people who moved away from the city, the region or the country because of family or work comitments.What you are saying is a load of bollocks.An emigrated Evertonian in Malaysia or New Zealand is just as entitled to have an opinion as you are.Probably more so ias they make an effort to stay up till the middle and pay expensive prices for English sports chanels.

I don’t live in the city, I live about 10 miles or so away in St Helens.I go to the majority of matches when I can.Not picking and choosing because any Everton game is important in my opinion no matter who it is or who it’s against.But I’m still entitled to an opinion even though I’m not entitled to vote and my opinion is that it’s going to tear the heart out of the club.

Also were under 16’s allowed to vote even if they had a season ticket?

EJ

Quite a rant there, for what was a sincere, and to be frank, perfectly simple question.

Why you?

Yours was, at that time, the last post, and you were the one trying to make a distinction between the Everton of now, and the Everton in Kirkby (as you had previously done in another article).

I was merely interested, given your attempt to justify why you wouldn’t continue to go on the grounds that an Everton in Kirkby will no longer be "Your Everton", in your opinion on others who had stated, in my opinion, a contradictory position of going to away matches and not home matches.

Tell you what, though, mate, I won’t bother asking your opinion again - as you have made it crystal fucking clear...

EJ,

The MK Dons situation is a ridiculous comparison. Not only did they move many miles away (not sure how many exactly), they changed their name. If Everton did that, I’d be mega pissed off. We’re moving 3/4 miles and still have the same name. We need to move because otherwise we’ll rot in Goodison. I love GP and would much prefer to stay there, but am being realistic.

If Everton had moved to the Kings Dock, would you have stopped supporting them because they would not be in the District of Everton?

You can say they’re not ’Everton’, but fact is they will be Everton. It’s an Everton that you would not like because they moved, but they are and always will be Everton. Certain people will rant and rave if we move and try to ruin Everton (like the bitter FC United lot), but I think these people will be a tiny minority and the vast majority of rational individuals will carry on supporting Everton. In my opinion, Everton will continue. They’re not going to suddenly die on their arse because x amount of people on TW who are not happy with the move decide to cut their nose off to spite their face and not attend.

It is a shame that if we move some people will no longer be Evertonians. That is their choice. Me? I’ll go the game and watch Everton and enjoy it.

Dave, how is it a betrayal? We need to move ground and unfortunatrely it’s the best on offer. Constant moaning and criticism isn’t solving anything and seems to just work you guys up into a frenzy.



I respect your views guys and can understand the emotion involved (that is there for us all), that is clear to see. Change is sometimes not nice, but change happens in all areas of life and at times we have to accept it and get on with it.

Dave, I have a disability and I have to say Everton are excellent on that front, very, very good.

E V E R T O N, we’re Everton and we’ll be Everton forever.

Yes voters, you have had your ballot, which you keep quoting was fair and a mandate.( I was entitled to 2 votes in my household and did not receive ballot papers). Plus you have the EFC marketing machine on your side.
So no problem then.

To EVERYONE who believes Kirkby is a very, very bad decision then please find email info.
Send to as many people as you can so that our voice is heard.

Below is the list of e-mails I have sent the template from KEIOC to ( I simply opened up the template then copied and pasted into an email -

blearsh@parliament.uk contactus@communities.gov.uk
gonwmailbox@gonw.gsi.gov.uk michael.ashton@gonw.gsi.gov.uk
b.viner@independent.co.uk
boothg@parliament.uk daveprentice@liverpoolecho.co.uk neilhodgson@liverpoolecho.co.uk
sport@liverpoolecho.co.uk
sutcliffeg@parliament.uk
tony.livesey@bbc.co.uk
valwoan@liverpoolecho.co.uk
warren.bradley@liverpool.gov.uk

I could not find And Burnham?s email but his assistant is -

CALVIN.MULLINGS@Culture.gsi.gov.uk

?GET UP, STAND UP! STAND UP FOR YOUR RIGHT! DON?T GIVE UP THE FIGHT!?

I think once the decision has been made and the contracts signed and the ol’ spade has hit the ground before the start of the season everything will die down from the remaining ’no’s. There is simply no comparison between the dilapidated (but loveable) ol’ lady and a brand new 50,000 (Extendable to 60,000) new stadium just four miles away in a strong scouse heartland half a mile across some ’invisible’ line. I feel i’m with the overwhelming majority of blues on this as witnessed by the whole of last season when there was no protests (apart from the couple o’ dozen...once) over this ’dastardly crime’. Most of us are intelligent and mature enough to see through all the ’no’ spin and dare I say it...lies from the likes of KEIOC. There has been some sensible ’no’ debaters but quite frankly most of them have been simply whining about a change of routine and their attachment to some sort of ’County Road Experience’ - if it wasnt so sad it would be hilarious.

Adam...

Firstly I don't think under 16s should have been able to vote, and even if they were you don't know if it would have changed the outcome. People under 16 are not likely to understand the importance of the issue and weigh up the options sensibly.

I live in West Yorkshire, I have a 150-mile round trip to every home game, some people travel from London to every game. Maybe people who do attend the majority of games without having a season ticket should have had a vote, but I'm not sure how the club could have done that. The club couldnt just say ?well everyone who registers on the official site can have a vote' because people would just register under different names etc and the vote would not be accurate.

In my opinion the vote included as many people as possible whilst being fair. I?ve heard of loads of NO voters saying they didn't receive their ballot paper, but I haven't heard any of the YES voters say the same so how's that?? At the end of the day the club held a vote, which they didn't have to do, and the majority has spoken.

Gerrard, why on earth do you think that just because there has been no protests at the match that everything and everyone is fine with the situation ?



The spin all seems to be coming from EFC - for example yesterday the news that KMBC had approved the scheme was put on the EFC website within minutes. The news on how we are going to help pay for it via Bellfield has somehow not been updated yet.
If you choose not to see that, that is up to you.
Its called propaganda and if the stadium was that good it wouldn’t need it. It’s not and it does.

Gerrard, Lies from KEIOC? ? how about lies from Wyness and his penny-pinching pals? Your opinions aren?t taken seriously anymore (were they ever?) as you are very patronising to the Evertonians who are against it and it?s people like you who give the Yes voters a bad rep.

Also, Anthony regarding under 16?s... I?m 14 and fully understand the situation, facts and figures involved so don?t tell me that all under 16?s don?t know what's going on regarding our future.

Also, although most of the kids my age at school support Man U and Liverpool, the Evertonians I know are pretty equally split regarding the move so I?m not trying to put it forward as an argument for staying at GP, just that I think the next generation who will be the ones who find out wether Kirkby sinks or swims should of been given their say. Not neccesarilly by being given a vote but just being given a chance to give their opinion on the official site or something.

But Gareth, you?ve just hilariously gave us a perfect example of a remaining ?no?s mistruth - Bellefield. EFC will get the funds from Bellefield when they sell it - as simple as that, Bellefield will not just slumber forever and ever in a big black hole never ever possible to be sold, it is not going to be sold in the next few weeks I grant you but it will eventually, LCC politicians cant keep on turning down recommendations from its own planning experts. It will cost Liverpool council tax payers money and through an enquiry the club will win anyway.

As for the protests, I?m not suggesting everything is fine but I am suggesting that the vociferous ?no?s are a tiny minority whose only way of expressing their anger and ?frustration? over the move is to place their views ?on the record? on small messageboards ?n forums. I see myself as representing the overwhelming majority in rebutting many of the ludicrous claims of the ?few?. Scousers aren't slow in coming forward and if we felt something ?was not quite right? over the move we certainly wouldn't be confining our views to small messageboards ?n forums and being good ol? net warriors - we would take action in the form of protests, chants, marches etc - we?ve just come through an entire season without any at all (apart from the couple o? dozen...once). ;)

*** Tx - LL *** Gerrard Madden ,do you still live with your mother? chortle chortle

Sorry to break it to you this way Gerrard but Father Christmas doesn’t exist either.

The thing I hate most about these threads is how something that starts as one persons attempt to make a point becomes nothing more than a slanging match. No side in this argument is any better than the other and I will let individuals decide if I mean them or not.

Something that I am surprised at, is that nobody has mentioned the TW poll. Assuming that TW is representative of Evertonians, then it does support claims that a significant proportion of people who voted yes have changed their minds whilst the majority of those who voted no would still vote no.

Interpret this as you choose

Damian - you describe your opinion as being ’realistic’ (and by implication, mine as being unrealistic)

Fine, let’s see how ’realistic’ you are..

If you were being ’realistic’ (and honest!) you would accept, at the very least, the POSSIBILITY of all of the following situations.

It’s possible....

1) This move could result in some no voters packin in going.

2) Some yes voters might find the transport/lack of transport a pain and so slowly drift away (the Club can’t and doesn’t deny that you could be waiting for a train for 1 hr 45 mins)

3) NO new supporters arrive (we’re not Utd, why would they?)

4) The businessmen (to fill the ’executive’ boxes) never materialize (we’re not Utd..etc)

5) The money promised for players can’t be found (BK has told us of many things that were going to happen happen, that didn’t - it IS possible)

6) Atmosphere suffers as there are between 15 and 20,000 seats at each game.

7) In 20 years we’re not really seen as a Liverpool team anymore, just a sort of Boro.

8) The Liverpool FC ’One City One Team’ becomes as well known as ’YNWA’ or ’The People’s Club’ (Coz there WILL be only one team in the city).

9) Every (EVERY) single time you talk to a red, you have to listen to "Woolyback, One city One team, fuck off back to your town" etc et-bleedin-cetera.

10)10 years down the line Knowsley Council put pressure on the club to incorporate ’Knowsley’ into the name (making you ’pissed off’)

It’s possible, if any or all the above happened, it could be the beginning of a rapid decline for Everton FC.

I believe ALL these things are distinct possibilities and given that, believe the club has a lot more chance to ’die on the vine’ fast by moving to Kirkby (sigh -yes we must do ’something’, but if you believe Goodison will fall down at twenty past six tomorrow, then I’m sorry, but you have been duped by a fat greedy beefy cunt)

If you don’t think ANY of the possibilities I cited are..er.. possible, at all, I suggest it is you who is unrealistic, gullible and naive in the extreme (or as we no voters say, ’a bit of a Madden’)

I am from Malaysia, so I have never been to any Everton matches so wanted my first Everton match in the future to be at Goodison Park where Everton's home really is. All the history is there and all the Everton legends played there.
Besides, Kirkby only adds around 9000 seats so what is it for? I suggest that we should share a stadium with Liverpool and create a rivalry just like AC Milan and Inter Milan.

By the way, where to buy Everton jersey in Malaysia? I am looking for it very long days...