I just want to guage people's opinion's regarding the Euro 2008 finals at the moment. I for one think they have been one of the better tournament's i have seen, probably since the World Cup in Spain in '82 I think. Great tournaments are all about great matches and already there has been some great games.
My question is as Evertonians, have we really missed England in these Championships? Of course if England are in the finals we all sit around the big screen blues and reds, but do we really care? What do england mean to you? I remember a couple of year's ago, a survey was done nationally, the question asked was 'if you had a choice of England winning the World Cup or your team winning the League what would you pick' it was 90 odd % from London and the south picked England, whereas here it was the opposite.....
England mean nothing to me, this tournament has backed this up. COYB
Mick Gillian, Posted 15/06/2008 at 02:03:35
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1 Posted 15/06/2008 at 06:02:20
2 Posted 15/06/2008 at 06:18:37
But the opposite, Multiculturalism, which is what some, or so it seems to me. would have us embrace, seems to mean we take on board all cultures EXCEPT our own, not INCLUDING our own.
In EURO 2008 many of the participants, some more than others, are all on the multicultural Euro treaty of Lisbon band wagon. But that doesn’t seem to stop the Swedes and the Dutch filling their end of the ground with a sea of yellow or orange.
So it is OK to love your Country, or at least it’s football team in this modern touchy feely metro sexual age.
Back to Club Vs Counrty.
The Prem and major international tournaments NEVER overlap.
So where’s the problem.
Be proud of you Club, but fuck the PC mob, the too pompous to cheer for you Country.
Just as there only 2 sorts ( at club level ) Evertonians and the rest.... On the international scene the world can be divided into 2
I know the detractors will (maybe, who cares, like I actually give a shit ) call me an old fogie etc etc
But there was never, ever, a better decade to young, Evertonian and English than the 60’s and 1966 in particular.
3 Posted 15/06/2008 at 07:04:35
4 Posted 15/06/2008 at 08:09:57
I want England to win but it doesn?t hurt me if they lose.
When Everton lose it?s like a punch in the belly.
5 Posted 15/06/2008 at 09:34:45
There?s too much football on TV now and I never thought I?d say it but I?ve had enough and need a break from screaming commentators and studio experts.
6 Posted 15/06/2008 at 10:00:49
7 Posted 15/06/2008 at 10:54:36
8 Posted 15/06/2008 at 11:02:32
9 Posted 15/06/2008 at 11:05:01
10 Posted 15/06/2008 at 11:23:12
11 Posted 15/06/2008 at 12:05:33
Nice summer break, none of our players in the shop window, no injuries, and ne not having to pretend I like anyone from any other club because they are an England player.
Club first, I hope we never qualify again, unless We Everton have at least 6 players in the first team.
Not interested at all in watching it, its another version of the eurovision song contest- Shit simple as that.
Its what the Europeans want any way.
So good luck to them.
Come on August lets get back to what really matters.
12 Posted 15/06/2008 at 12:07:30
13 Posted 15/06/2008 at 11:56:48
I mean, we (ourselves) don’t choose where that land is, it’s complete fluke, so...why the pride?
We take pride in passing an exam if WE did it.
We don’t take pride in a total stranger passing an exam
I can understand "I’m pleased I was born in.." or "I’m relieved I wasn’t born in..." but not "Ahm reet prahhhd t’ be Inglish laaahk"
My guess as to why patriotic ’pride; appeals so much, is because if you really get into it, it can fill a huge gap in otherwise empty, wasted, repetitive existence.
My own theory/belief is that it appeals to the poorest and the wealthiest.
The poorest housing estates are the places that (it seems to me) are first to drag out the cross of St George (in honour of that real saint, who really killed a REAL dragon) for any ’event’ that his an ’Ingurlund’ team involved.
And your average genuine toff who sees all the ’old values’ being eroded (ie: like not being able to send a 6 year old kid up one’s chimney for a farthing anymore etc) seem to cling to the flag like Vinnie Jones to Gazza’s plums.
I’ve enjoyed Holland’s performances so far.
It’s as though they said "let’s knock it about, play some good stuff and if we win, we win - if we don’t, well...we’re all still incredibly rich and have fantastic lives"
14 Posted 15/06/2008 at 13:03:43
15 Posted 15/06/2008 at 13:49:08
I think English people are so much aligned to their respective club teams that it makes it very hard to cheer on a player from a rival. I don’t celebrate when Rooney scores (unless it was the 94th minute in the World Cup final, then I might). I could tolerate Gerrard scoring, because even though he’s a kopite and all, he’s still a bloody brilliant player. It’s just all his diving and moaning and his "loyalty" that costs over £100,000 a week.
Anyway, back to your point, I think the Euros are definitely better because England aren’t in them. As a neutral, its easier to enjoy whatever game.
16 Posted 15/06/2008 at 14:19:38
Mind you I have missed the WAGs and their shopping for even bigger sunglasses.
What is Cappello’s policy towards them? I hope he tells them to stay at home and check out Matalan and Poundstretchers.
17 Posted 15/06/2008 at 14:21:27
When we won the world cup we all wanted to be part of it.
When our sportsmen win things it makes you want to say you’re English.
When the Falklands war broke out everyone wanted a union Jack.
But unfortunately apart from Lewis Hamilton we’ve had nothing to unite us behind the flag in recent times.
English sport is at an all time low,the government has brought a new divisive culture into the country and that’s why we dont give a toss about the nation.
18 Posted 15/06/2008 at 14:06:25
I understand the point your making, 93 welcoming our troops home makes very uncomfortable reading indeed
I feel absolutely certain that we all feel far greater pride in the lads putting their knecks on the line so we can sleep safe in our beds, than we could ever feel in some overpaid overrated gobshite making millions because he plays football for England
Personally I dont even want our players selected for England, I still feel sick that Vaughanys problems started when on international duty,
I think we our patriotic, but that patriotic pride will never extend to an England team that has a Swede or an Italian getting paid millions to manage a group of overrated spoilt brats who quite clearly dont give a shit
That said, EJ’s post was funny as fuck
19 Posted 15/06/2008 at 14:56:41
20 Posted 15/06/2008 at 16:00:24
21 Posted 15/06/2008 at 15:50:59
The point is that it’s not being proud of having been born on some arbitrary bit of land, it’s being proud of the people that were born in the same place as you. You have something in common with them and you should be able to identify with them because of it. Maybe that’s the problem with the England team at the moment; it’s very hard to identify with a lot of them. Personally I still do though, because they’re all English and I think that means something. There are still parts of culture that extend all around the country and that are particular to OUR country.
I would have much preferred to have England in the competition, but I’ve watched most of it so far anyway.
22 Posted 15/06/2008 at 16:15:54
Isn’t Murray Scottish - born in Glasgow?
And why would people not be able to identify with the English football team if you can support a Scottish tennis player?
EJ Ruane’s post - brilliant ;).
23 Posted 15/06/2008 at 16:14:09
Sorry, Ben but simply don’t buy into that.
I mean you say..
"The point is that it?s not being proud of having been born on some arbitrary bit of land, it?s being proud of the people that were born in the same place as you. You have something in common with them and you should be able to identify with them because of it"
(I know my next point will seem deliberately facetious but I assure you it is not meant to be - merely an exaggeration to illustrate a point).
Something in common?
I have something in common with "Stevie G lar" - we both have heads.
If you apply that logic, where does it begin and end?
I could argue I have more in common with a 49 year old Dinka tribesman, than an Englishman under 20, just because of our common age (his use of English would certainly be easier for me to understand).
See what I mean.
I think it makes more sense to be proud of what you achieve, or your kids, your family.
I don’t know whether it was G.B Shaw or Oscar Wilde who described patriotism as being the ’last refuge of scoundrel’ but I’m with him.
And certainly, most of what I’ve seen (and heard of) over the years, that has been perpetrated in the name of ’Patriotism’ makes me less, rather than more inclined to get teary-eyed at the waving of flags and playing of anthems.
By the way, I think all nations are guilty, not just England.
24 Posted 15/06/2008 at 16:43:23
If you love the game, there’s a lot to admire and while it would be nice if England were there, it’s actually kind of stress free to sit back and watch the Continent’s best go at it with some excellent football and, where it hasn’t been top-notch quality, excitement. The circus around the England team may affect the enjoyment of supporting our national team but don’t let that color your desire to watch the other teams.
25 Posted 15/06/2008 at 17:43:01
Having said that, it is difficult to want the likes of Steven Gerrard and Wayne Rooney to do well but I’m fairly happy as long as they do it in an England shirt. I would also guess that many people’s indifference to England is actually towards the overpayed, overhyped, underdelivering players rather than the three lions and patriotism. And no, I’m not a southerner. Born and raised within eight miles of Goodison.
26 Posted 15/06/2008 at 18:18:42
EJ, I agree with much of what you say. Probably you would associate with someone of a similar age, even a tribesman. And yeah, you’re part of the human race and have a head. Both your examples are ways of placing yourself in a category. You could follow things on those terms if you wanted to. I’d say though that geographical location and thus nations are more suitable.
I’m just trying to show that there is a reason people feel patriotic. Where we live and grow up (I mean countries, not towns/cities) has a large effect on the kinds of people we are. We all share the same law, roughly the same environment, the same history, language and so on. In a nutshell, the same culture. All that makes me at least feel that I’m somehow tied to other people that share these things; we’re all English. I would far more readily approach an English player than a foreign player. Unless of course it was Mikel or someone, which kinda proves my point really.
Re: Kids, family, achievements. Definitely agree with you. Not a lot of people put their country before their family. When it comes to the crunch though, I’m thinking of military people here, I’d guess fighting for your country and your family becomes almost the same thing (I’m not a soldier, sorry if I’m off the mark with this).
27 Posted 15/06/2008 at 19:22:17
28 Posted 15/06/2008 at 23:09:21
29 Posted 16/06/2008 at 00:18:38
30 Posted 16/06/2008 at 00:21:21
31 Posted 16/06/2008 at 01:57:25
Any one of these or all of them I would love for MY TEAM, EVERTON.
That said...............I would LOVE FOR MY COUNTRY?S NATIONAL TEAM (I mean ENGLAND of course) to win the Euro?s (2012 will do nicely thank you) and THE WORLD CUP. I don?t care how much they earn, I don?t even care if Gerrard or Rooney scored the winning goal (although I admit I can?t stand Gerrard period and Rooney?s attitude and scowl most of the time) but It still wouldn?t bother me if they did the business. I would love for MY COUNTRY?S NATIONAL TEAM to win the World Cup again before I kick the bucket... and if anybody thinks I?m wrong or disagrees, well, I DON?T CARE!
I?m English, proud of it, and I don?t muddy the waters by worrying how much they get paid, or if they should be playing better (I could bitch about both those points but that?s a separate argument altogether).
If Capello can turn England into a winning team I?ll be the happiest man around!
If Everton could win the Champions League within the next 3 or 4 years.... .whoa, too much to take in.... but I?d love it all the same!!!
32 Posted 16/06/2008 at 05:19:28
33 Posted 16/06/2008 at 06:09:39
God knows Alf Tupper had a hell of a struggle against all the posh Ox bridge toffs
Henry Cooper said that when he fought overseas he had to knock them out to get a draw. Any northern player has to be well better than the rival southerner. just to get an even chance
Even the great man himself came up against it in the 30’s.
How that Budgie Byrne got so many caps I’ll never know, well yes I do, he played for a London club.
That Tosser Storey wasn’t fit to lace Kendalls boots, but who got all the caps.
When the draw for the 66 world cup was made and the tickets on sale, the draw stated that the winner of group 1, which we all knew would be England, would play the group 3 winners
AT GOODISON !!!
And what happened, somebody pre emptted Al Gore with and inconvenient truth. we got the shitty end of the stick yet again.
Gavin Corgan 8 MILES !! that makes you a woolie back FFS.
34 Posted 16/06/2008 at 21:54:23
A wolllieback I may be, but surely Kirkby is eight miles from Speke or Garston? ;)
35 Posted 17/06/2008 at 06:38:58
8 mile or 8 ins for that matter, the distance matters not, you are still a Blue and Kirkby is a million spiritual miles from where we want to be.
36 Posted 18/06/2008 at 11:58:52
I would rather Everton won the Zenith Data Systems Cup than England win the World Cup.