In the Euros it happened just once and I wonder did anyone else notice?
A Dutch defender hoofed a useless long ball of the kind so often seen at Goodison. It was met with a deafening jeer from both sets of fans while all his team mates within camera range stood with hands on hips glaring at the culprit. The team coach was seen to throw his hands in the air in disgust.
Makes one wonder at the kind of football played in the EPL.
Dick Fearon, Posted 19/06/2008 at 00:22:30
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1 Posted 19/06/2008 at 07:41:35
It's interesting to see that a lot of the attractive teams in Euro 08 have Dutch influences. Russia for obvious reasons and Portugal's Youth setup has been heavily influenced by them over the years.
2 Posted 19/06/2008 at 07:45:12
Just hope Moyes is taking notes while doing the commentary.
3 Posted 19/06/2008 at 07:51:33
4 Posted 19/06/2008 at 08:09:14
5 Posted 19/06/2008 at 08:19:26
you must be so pleased to be so far away from Goodison because I don?t recall any praise whatsoever being posted by yourself as regards Everton, so maybe you should stick to Aussie Rules.
6 Posted 19/06/2008 at 09:10:21
Unless it comes from the boot of Timmy boy. Who Dick and the rest of the Aussies idolise and can?t do a thing wrong.
7 Posted 19/06/2008 at 09:22:50
Does it make a difference where you watch the bloody game from??
Strewth, you guys must have your heads up your arses. Crickey!!!
8 Posted 19/06/2008 at 09:32:11
Anyway, back to Dick’s point.
Playing the ball out from the back was one of Everton’s weakest areas last season, particularly later in the season. The various back 4’s were very solid all season but distribution-wise we are crap, even compared to other EPL teams. Definitely an area we need to address.
I have posted a couple of times saying that I do hope the Moyes considers getting a European and preferably a Dutchman as an assistant or at least part of the coaching staff. Apart from European experience they also are very good in coaching, technical and tactical parts of the game. Areas where we are weak.
9 Posted 19/06/2008 at 10:27:22
10 Posted 19/06/2008 at 10:45:14
11 Posted 19/06/2008 at 11:11:36
It revolved around the lack out great English strikers coming through but a point made by a reasonably well spoken coach of a regional youth team spoke volumes. The way the game is going these days is about not losing the game, as apposed to playing to win.
It’s not that the talent is not out there, but rather it is being drilled out of the flair players!
No disrespect to the Dutch league, but over half of our P/L teams play to stay in the division through fear of losing their slice of the money pie. It would appear the Dutch lads are encouraged to play the ’Total football’ way, whereas our boys are being told to get the ball up the pitch asap?
12 Posted 19/06/2008 at 11:56:42
13 Posted 19/06/2008 at 12:34:05
14 Posted 19/06/2008 at 12:38:18
Go in hard.
Get in their faces.
Up & at ’em.
Close them down as quickly as possible.
Be first to every ball.
These are the English ’tactics’ taught to every kid in this country and at every level on the way up. The Dutch (and Hungarians) had it right from way back, but the English being the English we know best. Its all bollocks; football is a simple game (mostly played by simple people) which never need be anything but simple - you pass it short to feet, you move, you find space, you receive - thats really about it. Look at the teams in Euro 08 playing the best football, they all live (and die) by that way of playing. Russia looked great playing it dead simple last night, neatly knitted together football played at a high tempo but still played very simply. England as a team are good on paper, but thats also part of the problem - the fact that ever England manager since Alf Ramsey has always picked the best players on paper (often due to public/press pressure) which just isn’t the right way to go about things - you have a to have a blend of the right players - just look at Croatia/Holland/Russia. These teams have a balance & blend of the right players in their teams, coached the right way (see above) and its playing dividends - I just wish people would see that Davey Moyes is trying to do the same thing with Everton, and hopefully so will Capello with England - then we might find we have 2 teams that play attractive football that gets results.
15 Posted 19/06/2008 at 12:42:42
No other sides outside the Sky 4 have the squad or the skill to do this. I assume that the Dutch League and game is not as frenetic as our usual hit and rush game.
Skilfull players in our league are usually double marked or booted all over the show by mediocre defenders and only the most skillfull one, the ones only a few teams can afford, can shine through.
The way the games are played vary significantly all over the world and unfortunately our league is mainly about speed not so much skill.
16 Posted 19/06/2008 at 13:15:58
17 Posted 19/06/2008 at 13:02:34
If the EPL wants to see this type of football then they would have to force the officials to enforce much more stringent rules, cutting down on the physicality. If this happened I think we would see this type of football being played in the EPL. To say that this is the way it is in England because the English players are taught this from the beginning goes against the fact that English players only make up less than 40% of the players in the league, I believe it’s closer to 30%. So it is all players doing this in England, partly because it has always been like that here and partly because they know the officials will let them get away with tackles that in other leagues would be certain yellow and sometimes red cards. But when Arsenal complain after a tough game that they are having their legs and ankles kicked after every pass we laugh at them and say they need to toughen up, their foreign players are weak, etc. Well, we can’t have it both ways, we can’t have beautiful football and tough in your face, physical defending.
18 Posted 19/06/2008 at 13:44:05
1) We had an an Empire.
2) We won the world cup IN 66.
These two things combined are, in my view, the reason England constantly under-perform.
The Empire is the reason so many British people still (in spite of all the evidence) feel superior to their foreign counterparts.
And what is now considered a questionable (well it is in Germany) World Cup win, gives us the idea that it is probably just bad luck that has prevented us winning more.
Fact: Rather than adopt foreign ideas, we just think..
"But...we’re British! Why would we entertain anything foreign? - That’s just crazy talk. If we keep spending 75 minutes out of every 90 stroking the ball along the back four and the other 15 hoofing it forward, we’re BOUND to win something"
I remember playing for Sunday League for Acrehall FC, (Business Houses 1979) in Liverpool.
At half time (against the Post Office) it was 0-0 but we were stroking the ball around nicely, finding our men etc.
Our manager’s half time-talk consisted of the following.
"Don’t be tip-tapping the fucking thing around...get it fucking ’up there’"
(known as total - shite - football)
It was as if Hungary had never tonked us 6-3.
And it still is..
19 Posted 19/06/2008 at 14:23:13
On a serious note. Afew have hit the proverbial square on the head.
You cannot compare international football with the way it is played in the prem.
Most of the teams in the Euro’s are crammed full of top class players and the game is a more patient one, build from the back and draw the opponent onto you etc.
The majority of prem teams have a few class players and the rest of the squad made up of half decent pro’s who play to the best of their abillity.
Hence the need to be physical and intimidating when it comes to playing the big 3.
20 Posted 19/06/2008 at 15:00:26
21 Posted 19/06/2008 at 16:46:45
22 Posted 19/06/2008 at 17:07:55
It comes back down to this physical game mentality. I played at centre back til I was 12 and then opposing players starting out growing me so I was moved into midfield and the taller, bigger lads moved into defence to combat them.
Even on this site we mention the fact that Leon Osman, (arguably one of our more skillful players), is constantly knocked off the ball. Even Kissock has been noted to be a bit lightweight. We seem stuck in this tough, battling game plan on England, and it is coaching driven, whereby our problems lie.
23 Posted 19/06/2008 at 17:37:53
But hey, we’re heading places with Moyes aren’t we? Lets hope he signs a new contract soon, and hope it’s a really long one so we can enjoy his boring defensive crap for many years to come! (Hopefully in that God awful shed in Kirkby)
24 Posted 19/06/2008 at 17:41:24
Had the dark hoards spiiting venom at me in work for that.
Fuck em !
25 Posted 19/06/2008 at 17:58:05
26 Posted 19/06/2008 at 18:43:15
We play both football codes here (soccer and aussie rules) Hence our Aussie teams so rough ;)
We do know what we’re talking about, we’re not all simpletons drinking cold beer, eating meat pies, shagging sheila’s and giving Kiwi’s a bad time.
Dick was just making a fair observation of the times, but things will change, and here’s to Moyesy picking up a Dutch no.2 (fingers crossed) :)
27 Posted 20/06/2008 at 01:11:15
28 Posted 20/06/2008 at 00:43:20
The first one is about the "English way" of playing football. Being from Ireland and now living in Oz, the English way has been the accepted norm. Like many others, when we were growing up, we tended to get put in one position from young (played centre half for all my life), told not to muck around with it (ie hoof it), put the pressure on, play it in their half etc etc. There was sfa technical training - it was all either fitness with a kick around at the end of training. Systems and tactics - you’re having a laugh. As I understand it, the Dutch have been playing "small sided football" for a long time. This encourages kids to develop ball skills and play all over the pitch. The rest of the world is finally catching on to this. Not sure about in England but certainly in Oz, small sided games & futsal are being pushed (especially for kids) now. There has been a lot of debate in the (soccer) media here in Oz about this. There is a move to small sided games, developing skills and overall coaching programs (with a Dutch influence as it happens). Not sure whats happening in Eng/Irl on that front but long term you’d imagine it is the way to go.
The other issue, is Everton. We know that EPL is high pressure in terms of the way it is played and also in financial terms. I’m not expecting EFC to play like Holland or Brazil every game. Still, I think there is plenty of scope for improving the quality of our play. Playing the ball through the middle is a real weak area for us. IMHO, Chelsea are great in this area. Even in really high pressure games (UCL semis, finals, etc) they still play the ball out from the back. If we want to step up to the next level and even compete in UEFA etc it is something we need to address.
29 Posted 20/06/2008 at 04:23:21
Hibbert, Neville, Jagielka, AJ, Yobo, Lescott, Cahill - they don’t bring me confidence in retaining possession and playing a patience game. Mikel will lose the ball after dribbling endlessly. Osman, Pienaar will fall over everytime.
Whack the ball into the corners and sneak in the odd goal at a freekick. The Germans showed the way yesterday. I’m not saying I enjoy the spectacle but there’s a place for hoofball as needed. Cheers,
30 Posted 20/06/2008 at 06:33:22
It’ll all good to say we should adopt total football, Brazil blah blah blah but it’s not just the attractive footie along the grass in small groups, there’s also the ’professionalism’ when you lose possession and need to run down the clock. You can’t have one and not the other, it’s a complete package. Those that think we can play attractive footie AND British gentlemanship (is that word?) is living in idealistic la la land.
Here’s a question for: Steven Gerrard is racing towards goal and you’re Tony Hibbert chasing him down. Do you:
a) Wait until you have a opening and tackle the ball fair and squarely
b) Blatantly hack the opponent down way outside the penalty area and receive your marching orders.
I know what I’ll choose.
31 Posted 20/06/2008 at 08:42:14
32 Posted 20/06/2008 at 09:19:27
Portugal will become even better once Fernandes steps up! He pwns in the Under 21s :)
33 Posted 20/06/2008 at 09:15:07
"We do know what we?re talking about, we?re not all simpletons drinking cold beer, eating meat pies, shagging sheila?s and giving Kiwi?s a bad time"
What for drinking cold beer, eating meat pies and shagging Shielas!?
Fact: I win the lotto - I’m a simpleton.
34 Posted 20/06/2008 at 09:23:35
35 Posted 20/06/2008 at 10:11:22
36 Posted 20/06/2008 at 10:46:27
How on earth did we ever manage to win a game?, you have just slated our entire outfield.
37 Posted 20/06/2008 at 11:04:10
I’ve never slated our midfield, but rather slate the unjustified need to play samba soccer. We can’t - and don’t need to.
"Whack the ball into the corners and sneak in the odd goal at a freekick. " Oh, and 10 men behind the ball.
Arshavin was my hope of sanity but now I’ll that’s gone too.
38 Posted 20/06/2008 at 13:13:00
I’m playing with words..
Anyways. Back to Football.
If Arsenal snare Arshavin I’m gunna be pissed (in the angry sense) ..
I think I’m going to take a hiatus on the trade season for a week, going day by day is just irritating.. I need to get out more :)
Time to concentrate on Essendon beating Carlton this Sunday ;)
39 Posted 20/06/2008 at 13:12:55
Correspondingly I think a few "Domestic" players have improved their technical ability.
It’s all about culture and if you look at the culture of Arsenal under Wenger where relatively unknown players can come in an look great footballers compared to the culture of Chelsea where great footballers can come in and look ordinary but at the end of the day who is more successful.
I could watch Arsenal every week and settle for 3rd place and some cup runs but I couldnt watch Chelsea every week however while they are successful and winning things they will attract a large following.
Now if only EFC could play like Arsenal and develop the winning mentality of Chelsea!!