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The Mail Bag

Bill and Keith — a defence?

Comments (35)

As someone relatively new to Toffeeweb I have been surprised at the negativity towards Bill Kenwright and Keith Wyness. This is a genuine question, naive as it may seem, but why?

Bill Kenwright (I've only seen him on TV) seems to be a sincere man with the best interests of the club at heart. Keith Wyness I know nothing about other than the fact that someone thought he was a man who could do a job for our club.

I am opposed to Kirby, I think our club is badly marketed, I complain, like every football fan, about the board, but hope that there are people running the club who are better informed and wiser than me. Is there anyone out there who can defend Keith Wyness and explain that he is doing a good job? I would genuinely be glad to hear positive comments.
Andy Crooks, Belfast     Posted 27/06/2008 at 00:34:40

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Lyndon Lloyd
Andy, you're opposed to Kirkby and think the club is badly marketed... I think you've started to answer your own question there. But this does offer an opportunity for those who are pro-Board to have their say so over to you...
Varun Rajwade
1   Posted 27/06/2008 at 04:02:03

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I think BK does have a few very strong positives in his favour (persistance with Moyes even when we finished 17th, the fact that he did go forward with the vote, we are the only club who did so and also a reasonable increase in the transfer market overall).. I'm afraid KW has no positives I can think of. In Yankee language, HE SUCKS ;)
Arthur Jones
2   Posted 27/06/2008 at 04:20:58

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If it was KW that set up the long term links with China and Everton then that is the only positive thing I can think of in his favour. This is far outweighed by the negatives though, headed by the misleading stadium statements, the asset stripping, merchandise marketing fiasco, even the Goodison Park catering has been outsourced to Sodexo, we don?t own Finch Farm ........ and now the lack of ability to find the funding to break through the "glass ceiling", which could persuade DM to look elsewhere to create a top-class team.
Dave Wilson
3   Posted 27/06/2008 at 05:40:33

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IMO they are not evil people

BK is a blue, by his own admission he is NOT a business man, his biggest crime is he brought in KW when one look at his CV should have stopped him even getting to the interview stage

KW a business man, but given the amount of money swimming around football he is strictly small time, NOT being a blue hardly endears him to the troops when his limitations are exposed. His biggest crime is, he swam with the sharks

I sometimes wonder if all this hatred is misplaced, if it wasnt for the spectre of Kirkby, would everything these guys do - or dont do - be greeted by such seething resentment

Tesco Terry is a blue and few can doubt this guy is one of the shrewdest businessmen around, but he didnt get where he is today by putting the interest of his club first

On the eve of the vote, it was touch and go, the no camp were confident, but Terry the blue turned the vote on its head,
Everybody listened as this hugely respected high flyer gave DK a ringing endorsement.
IMO the vote was lost there and then

There seems little point in going over what has come out since the vote, we all know who the real - the only - winners are

Two questions :

BK + KW get all of the flack for the DK fiasco, but given the lack of confidence a large section of the fan base had shown in them, long before the vote, could they really have swung it themselves ?

As the promises made evaporate, one by one< Why doesnt Tesco Terry speak to Evertonia now ?
Michael Brien
4   Posted 27/06/2008 at 07:21:39

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It seems to me that BK’s biggest crime is that he doesn’t have the financial clout of Abramovich & Co. I would rather have him as Chairman than a mega rich sugar daddy - can the likes of Man City or even Chelsea be sure that their mega rich owners will not move on/sell up in the next few years? People should remember who was chairman before Kenwright - does the name Peter Johnson ring any bells ?? It seems quite a lot of people out there have forgotten Johnson’s "regime" and the undoubted damage that it did to Everton. I can recall the "Agent Johnson" banner displayed on the Kop.

Kenwright is an Evertonian and loves the club- He was a supporter many years before he was on the board - and I believe that he has the best interests of the club at heart.

Wyness - the jury is still out on that one, though I have to say that I thought his comments of " There’s no Plan B" on the eve of the vote for out of order to put it mildly - an attempt to heavily influence the vote methinks.
Mark Jensen
5   Posted 27/06/2008 at 08:38:45

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I tend to agree with most of the above.
BK - not enough cash therefore never going top take us where we want and seems reluctant to let go.
KW - I don’t know what the fans expect from him. The clubs accounts look much better now than before he arrived, the club has a possible new ground and bright future on the horizon. Yes we are all gutted at exactly what all that means but, he is an accountant, and in black and white he probably believes he is doing a fantastic job and meeting all his targets. Sentiment aside, and I am aware of all the clubs shortcomings, but I tend to agree!
Paul OHanlon
6   Posted 27/06/2008 at 08:46:04

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Mark, I think the clubs finances look better now that before Wyness arrived due to the fact we’re finishing in the top 6 consistenly these days consistently and playing in Europe...which is actually down to Moyes. Not to mention the extra millions pouring into the club from TV deals negotiated by the Premier League, NOT Wyness.
Richard Dodd
7   Posted 27/06/2008 at 08:50:59

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At the rsk of inviting all my previous critics to pan me yet again it is good to see that Evertonians are AT LAST waking up to the fact that we are truly blessed under the astute management of Bill,Keith and Davey.Blue Bill ’saved’ the Club,Keith has re-established it as a thriving business and Davey has made us a real force to be reckoned with on the field.Who needs ogligarths with these three at the helm.We are indeed in good hands!
John Andrews
8   Posted 27/06/2008 at 08:59:40

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Where should I start ?
Richard, That has got to be the biggest wind up ever.
I too suspect that we are better off with Kenwright but we do need investment and he is not going to let anybody else take any sort of control.
A certain Paul Gregg I believe guaranteed the money for Kings Dock provided he got a larger shareholding. The result ? No Kings Dock. The money was allegedly "Ringfenced" according to Kenwright. He then kept the Council waiting for so long that they lost patience with him. It stll depresses me even now.
Wyness, what can I say about him that will not see me in Court ! Not a lot really. He failed at Aberdeen, he failed in Sydney and now he is failing at Everton. The man is a charlatan. How Kenwright ever imagined that this man could do a job for Everton is beyond me.
Steve Collins
9   Posted 27/06/2008 at 09:39:00

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I truely believe Bill Kenwright deep down hates the fact he hired Keith Wyness.

I think at the time of the appointment Bill was desperate. In walked the charlatan as john andrews mentioned and Bill was sold.

Yes the club prospects look better than they did before but that really has nothing to do with KW thats all BK and his appointment of our saviour Moyes.

Like someone already mentioned its natural progression that more money comes in when results and position improves.

KW in m opinion could not run a lemonade stand even it was in the desert and there was a million rich texans parched for a drink.
Robert Mutt
10   Posted 27/06/2008 at 09:59:43

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Richard Harris wrote "Keith has re-established it as a thriving business".

Wonderful sense of irony, Richard !! At least, I hope that it?s irony ? Or are you really serious ??
Steve Pugh
11   Posted 27/06/2008 at 10:29:47

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Yep. An operating loss of £10.9m is definitely a "thriving business".

Why not get rid of KW and see if Tesco Terry wants to help out. Get EFC merchandise in all the Tesco stores for a starter.
Andy Callan
12   Posted 27/06/2008 at 10:59:09

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It is about time Wyness started to deliver in my opinion.

Blue Bill does his best and is an Evertonian through and through.

If someone with more money and as much passion for the club came along Blue Bill would deffo stand aside, only for the good of the club.

Until that time we have what we have got; simple as that.

Osmo Tapio Räihälä
13   Posted 27/06/2008 at 11:02:55

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Bill Kenwright might be a fan just as anyone of us, but he is in a position where he has more responsibilities towards us than we have towards him. He has let us down and lied to us so many times, that in my case he is the reason, why I don’t follow Everton anymore. I’m bitter about that; in charge of Everton there’s a man, whose actions have separated me from my first and greatest love. If he had the best of the club as his first order, he would have f***ed off long time ago.

Of Keith Wyness I know very little. The little I know leads me to feel I don’t want to know more about him.
Richard Dodd
14   Posted 27/06/2008 at 11:20:19

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Do I really have to remind everyone that in comparison with the Big Four our club?s indebtedness is chicken-feed. Don?t be fooled by turnover, it?s the bottom line that counts and Everton?s will stand up with any club?s. I repeat, Everton is a thriving business!!! Why do so many see only fault when praise is really due?
John Andrews
15   Posted 27/06/2008 at 11:35:27

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Richard, Perhaps you were serious after all !
With the obvious exception of one year the top four clubs have remained there for God knows how long. That maybe because they spend money and try to bring in the best players possible.
I would also imagine that there would be no shortage of offers if any of those clubs were to be put up for sale.
We are clearly not in the same position. This may be due to our Chairman and CEO being hell bent on moving us out of Goodison Park at more or less exactly the wrong time !
There is a "Credit Crunch", whatever that is, and nobody in their right mind would contemplate moving house at this particular moment never mind buying a new stadium.
Thriving business ? What are you on because I would like some please.
Philip Drew-White
16   Posted 27/06/2008 at 11:39:22

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Sad to see Osmo not following the club anymore because of what is happening at the top. I am not sure why it should be that way IMHO.
When you're 10 years old and following the team of your choice, you don?t give a damn about what is happening off the field, so why later in life (assuming Osmo is older than 10 of course!)... I honestly could not see myself not supporting Everton no matter what happens off the field.

Yes, we all like a winning team, yes I think alot of the decisions made by KW baffle me and the marketing of merchandise leaves alot to be desired. Yes, we don?t have the money of the other top 5 teams. Yes, I would love to see some more big names arrive at the club. But through thick and thin I could never envisage myself being anything other than a blue.
Sorry for the waffle!

EJ Ruane
17   Posted 27/06/2008 at 12:03:34

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With you all the way Andy!

I mean I’m a huge fan of Vlad the Impaler and find myself constantly defending him.

You’d think listening to some people, that he’d spent EVERY day impaling people.

Fact is, most days he just sat in his Castle, in front of the fire, stroking his beard

I’m sorry but some people just want to see the bad in everyone.
Mike Carlisle
18   Posted 27/06/2008 at 12:01:45

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Like any of us, I would love to see Everton with more financial clout to move us up into the big league of European teams.

What I would not be willing to do is sacrifice my integrity and ethical values by snapping up the millions of a corrupt individual/organisation. There is more to this world than Football .

Portsmouth: Arcadi Gaydamak is wanted for allegedly illegal arms deal with Angola in the early 1990s. His son supposedly owns the club, but I?m sure Daddy is paying and would be hear if it was not for the Bow Street warrant for his arrest.

Man City: Thaksin Shinawatra. connection with corruption charges over a controversial land purchase deal in Bangkok and Human Rights abuses

Chelsea: Abramovich-Highly suspicious relationship between himself and the Russian Government. Veted Putin into power, made billions from nothing by taking a lot of Russia commercial comapanies fro himself and got out quick from Russia whilsty similar business men who did not have the same links with the security servises that he did where jailed for corruption

Arsenal-Usmanov (major shareholder) conviction for various crimes ? of fraud, corruption and theft of state property in the 80?s, later pardoned by now a lot of suspicion is rising again.

And lets not even go beyond the EPL and into Berlusconi?s Italy!!!!
Michael Brien
19   Posted 27/06/2008 at 12:06:20

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Philip - Don’t apologise, not waffle at all. Perhaps it’s because I have just got a copy of " The Golden Vision" on DVD - I watched the first 30 minutes last night - seeing Alan Ball and Alex Young in action has obviusly made me very emotional about my club !!!

I think some of the criticism of Kenwright has been over the top and bordering on hatred - which I can’t understand. I am NOT saying that BK hasn’t made mistakes.But I don’t think anyone can doubt the bloke’s affection for Everton - he is passionate about Everton. I think some of you out there have really forgotten how bad things were under the leadership - if it can be called that - of Peter Johnson and his cronies. Have some of you forgotten how Duncan Ferguson was sold by our then chairman (Mr Johnson) without the manager (Walter Smith) knowing ? I seem to recall PJ remained as chairman for about a year or so after that - but was never seen at Goodison at a match !!! That says it all doesn’t it. He also bought control of Everton - yet retained some shareholding in Tranmere - something not allowed by League & FA Regulations - nearly landing Everton in trouble big time with the FA.

Kenwright wants the best for Everton - yes we may not be able to go after most of the big name players - but Leeds United tried that approach to getting in the top 4 - look what happened to them. Before Abramovich took control of Chelsea - they were about £80m -£90m in debt. They still have operating debts as do the likes of Man Utd - yes they made millions in turnover - but they have big debts racked up by the Glazers.

I would rather have a bloke as chairman who cares about the club - but doesn’t have mega millions - than some mega rich sugar daddy who is only there for the profit/ego trip etc.
Andy Crooks
20   Posted 27/06/2008 at 12:39:30

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Nice one EJ! I?ve read all the comments and to be honest BK seems to come out okay. There isn?t much of defence of Keith Wyness ? maybe he is undefendable! Could it be that pro-board Evertonians avoid ToffeeWeb frightened of what they might read?
John Maxwell
21   Posted 27/06/2008 at 13:00:22

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One question to all the crtics

How would you run the club and what would you do to make it any better ?
Phil Bellis
22   Posted 27/06/2008 at 13:22:13

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Mr Dodd...has it escaped your notice that in a ’business’ that judges success by winning things the trophy cleaner at GP has been seriously under-employed for many years now? How does our chicken feed debt compare with the non-Sky4 clubs, then?
If you sold your home, car and family, I’m sure in the short-term your finances would look ’thriving’’ would have no home, no car and no family.
Tony Williams
23   Posted 27/06/2008 at 13:46:11

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EJ, it is a little known fact that Vlad the Impaler was actually known as Michelle, every second weekend of each month and he worked with underpriviledged kids, teaching them footy with severed heads.

Maybe if the doubters knew this about him then you wouldn’t have to defend him as often as you do.
Alex May
24   Posted 27/06/2008 at 14:00:39

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Give me strength! It’s people like you, Andy Crooks, who get the Irish a certain reputation.

There is mountains of evidence out there that proves that Kenwright is not the sincere man that you somehow believe him to be. Wyness’ substantial record of dishonesty predates his arrival at Goodison.

I could spend half my afternoon giving details but if it’s managed to pass under your radar so far, I’m sure it will continue to do so.

Amazing and worrying too.
Dave Wilson
25   Posted 27/06/2008 at 13:56:30

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When in a very good mood, I may be able to stretch to a bit of sympathy.... but praise?

You?ll have the sniffer dogs around your house mate.
James Marshall
26   Posted 27/06/2008 at 14:23:54

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You wannit your way with got it!

I agree with Richard by the way, Everton is in a much better financial state than the so called Big 4 - all of them have massive debts way bigger than other clubs. Even Michel Platini has come out and critisiced them, saying that he may act to ban clubs that are massively in debt from entering European competitions - if that ever happened then you’d see changes I tell you......oh and we’d be the top team in the country!

Sort of.
Chris Rhodes
27   Posted 27/06/2008 at 13:56:40

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BK and KW are doing a very good job,It was?nt that long ago we signing players from the championship or past it prem players.
We have broke the club record trasnfer for the last 2 years and buying up and coming players.
We are a club still improving, of course BK and KW could spend silly money but why take the gamble and rush to break into the top 4, Bet the Leeds Fans wish there took it bit by bit its called progress!!!
Clubs that have spent big;
Man C
West Ham
Trying to spend there way up the table,with so called top players,all finished bottom half.
and even Blackburn dont spend massive amounts of money but we are in a better postion on/off field.

AS for KW and the marketing side of the clud
surely we have a marketing director.
Lets just get behind the club and move us to the top 4,if that means Kirby so be it!!!!
The Ars got an extra 2mill per home game last season,Yes their only moved 500 yards and bigger stadium and is in London,but it is part of our club tring its best to make progress and not get in stupid amounts dedt.
So if that make?s KW a bad CEO then we better get Peter Ridsdale in and let control the club.
Gavin Ramejkis
28   Posted 27/06/2008 at 14:21:49

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For christ’s sake everyone that posts on these pages and goes to the games or watches for various reasons are Evertonians, that doesn’t make us by many people’s own admissions any more or less than BK but to suddenly put some form of godlike charm to the serial liar is disgraceful, NTL, Rooney is a £50m player, Fortress Fund, Kings Dock, non-existent Russian billionaires, 24/7 all lies one after the other, yet because he’s a blue he is forgiven? Next who should be in the dock for crimes against Everton FC and it’s fanbase is the pocket filling thief Keith Wyness, a former employee of BA who was tasked with someone else’s idea of running the executive club, if anyone has ever been a member it’s not exactly a hard sell as many huge companies already use BA for business flights so you have an existing massive user base to just give new products and promotions to and the overly cozy deal BA has at most UK airports means its often the only carrier to most business destinations. The same man who couldn’t market the Sydney Olympics a globally known event beyond one customer who he shafted and had to pay a large out of court settlement to before being booted out of Australia to his hometown of Aberdeen to become CEO and lie to that club about it’s ground falling down and having to move to, guess what an out of town retail park, the ground never did fall down and they stayed put. BK was gullible enough believe his hype, how he didn’t try reading his CV and checking with his previous employers or even a basic search of public domain information would have sounded alarm bells that should have meant his application went straight into the bin. No thanks to the two of them DM has saved this club from obscurity tied together with the growing Sky TV rights which neither BK or KW are responsible for. We should be thankful that KW didn’t get involved in the Sky deal as many SPL supporters will tell you he shafted the Scottish deal which means even as champions Celtic or Rangers only get £1m from theirs now.
Steve Collins
29   Posted 27/06/2008 at 14:36:10

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Alex May,

Explain what you mean by certain reputation? What are you trying to say exactly?

Don’t bring nations or nationality into a discussion about Everton and BK and KW.

Whether it be sarcasm or your trying to be humerous leave it out.
Ciaran McGlone
30   Posted 27/06/2008 at 14:40:13

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Yes Alex,

Can i suggest keeping you bigoted opinions from a club forum more than laced with Irish ancestry.
James Marshall
31   Posted 27/06/2008 at 14:52:33

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Ciaran are you Irish?


I’ll get me coat..
EJ Ruane
32   Posted 27/06/2008 at 14:54:09

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?Chris? - you say...

"Let?s just get behind the club and move us to the top 4, if that means Kirby so be it!!!!"


Wishful Thinking Champeeen - 2008

I?m curious - Do you think all you have to do is introduce a positive spin and a load of exclamation marks and people will think think "He?s right!!! I?ve changed my mind, let?s just do it and we?ll be in the top 4? (sorry - top 4!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!).

Let me try out your theory.

"Let?s stop eating pies, smoking Bensons and drinking Guinness and we?ll be slim teenagers!!!!!!!!"

See, nothing!

(seriously, have you actually read ANYTHING on TW on this issue?)
Alex May
33   Posted 27/06/2008 at 16:30:19

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Cairan and Steve Collins. In your own time, kindly point out where I said I agreed with the stereotype. Cheers!

I’ll not hold my breath waiting for an apology following the quite ludicrous claims of bigotry.

Truly pitiful.

(considers nerves struck)
EJ Ruane
34   Posted 27/06/2008 at 17:41:25

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Alex, this is easily sorted.

Just explain what you meant by..

"It?s people like you, Andy Crooks, who get the Irish a certain reputation".

I’m sure these lads have TOTALLY got the wrong end of the stick.

(does Rigsby-type head movement indicating ’well...come on!))

Steve Collins
35   Posted 27/06/2008 at 20:00:28

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Alex -

It's the implication that Irish people have a reputation for what? I guess you are saying we are stupid? Or thick? Or ignorant

I dunno you are a bit vague?

No one sees the Irish like that well except maybe you.

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