You could have almost guaranteed that the decision on the stadium would be delayed just to prolong the agony.
I fear for the sanity of some No voters who seem to have become more demented by the prospect of the move as time has gone on and who will probably spontaneously combust should it be approved.
I think for reasons which have nothing to do with Everton it may be still be approved in that a Labour govt will want to support a labour council and stick two fingers up to the Lib Dems in Lpool, whilst also keeping Leahy and Green sweet
Even it is called in this will probably only lead to several more weeks of waiting until they decide if a full public enquiry is required and god only knows what effect this would have on our spending plans.
I suspect that by now the vast majority of blues including yes voters would simply breath a sigh of relief if the project does die as most peope I have spoken to are more alarmed by the split in the fan base than by any other issue.
The increasing number of people coming on toffeeweb to say they will never go to Kirkby or bizarrely that they have even stopped going already is utterly shameful. In the end both the club and these individuals will lose out if they carry out their threat.
We can ill afford to lose any fans and the refusniks will condemn themselves to a future with empty saturday afternoons whilst watching their kids and grandkids grow up as RS and whilst also receiving the false and mocking commiserations of their RS mates.
If the club does wither in Kirkby then the refusniks will have the hollow and grim satisfaction of being right but they will also have to carry with them the knowledge that they played their own little part in the death of a great institution
As it happens if Kirky does fall then the club may be in serious trouble anyway. Robert Earl and Green may bale out and then the banks wont lend us a penny for transfers or ground development.
Is is too much to ask that in this period of great uncertainty we shoud be able to rely on one thing - if you are a blue you stay a blue until you die and if you go to the match now you go to the match (even under protest) in the future even if it is kirkby.
We talk a lot on this site about what great fans we have, well it is time for all this crap about not going to stop.
John Doolan, Posted 28/06/2008 at 21:15:38
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1 Posted 28/06/2008 at 22:34:29
Shame on you... People have opinions and beliefs... How dare you refer to these as "crap"? You sir are a disgrace to the name Everton.
I for one, love my club, but will never ever agree to move to a tin pot ground stuck to a supermarket to line the pockets of the Tesco machine...
it may be crap to you lad, but then again you can kiss my true blue arse...
Goodison for ever... the fight goes on.
2 Posted 28/06/2008 at 22:49:35
I think the whole deal stinks.... well, the parts Bill has not hidden from us. Although I?m going, I will never purchase a season ticket after the move as, like a lot of people, I buy with my credit card and have interest to pay on top of the cost. This new stadium will not be full very often so I will save the money even though people like me doing this will affect the pre-season cash flowing into the club.
3 Posted 28/06/2008 at 22:40:47
I believe season ticket sales are down ?the reason maybe as much to do with the credit crunch as Kirkby although I suspect it is having an impact. I can only comment on my own feelings about Kirkby, I wont be going to Kirkby as Everton simply will cease to mean the same thing to me. I just want to be allowed to express my views that moving to Kirkby will kill the club in the long term. The fact you feel the need to appeal to people who express such views
illustrates a fundemental problem with DK.
The fact that we are prepared to move out of the City that has provided our collective identity for almost 130 years has drained some of my passion for going already.
People have always stopped going to the match for family, economic or other reasons. One of the main reasons that I hear cited is that supporters (of many
clubs) become disenchanted as football
becomes a more impersonal business. The impact this will have on Everton cannot be predicted by yes or no voters
but your post rightly highlights some concerns.
People who come on here and slag people off who say they wont go anymore are in the wrong, it is my choice to go or not to go. Do people who are pro-Kirkby go around slagging people who stopped going years ago, because they were fed up with the club at some level. The illusion that their is a vast wealth of potential Evertonians to be tapped into, is just that an illusion!! I belive the club is alienating a good % of its core support with this move.
Everton have had my season ticket money for 35 seasons so I think I am entitled to say that I dont want to pay more money to go and watch something that I disagree with on every possible level.
4 Posted 28/06/2008 at 23:06:57
Nice sentiments but there is something called disillusionment and BK/KW seem to generate this in spades.
Like Roy Coyne I have been following EFC since the age of 7 in 1958 and have hardly missed a home game in all those years.
I sent back my Park end season ticket this year in protest to the total deceipt that is the "Crime of the century"
People contributed to an article recently titled "My Everton."
Well all I can say is "My Everton" have caused many disappointments for all True Blues over the years but nothing approaching the stink that now emanates from the boardroom of EFC.
I will still support the team but not as a season ticket holder until Kenwright is gone from the club.
5 Posted 28/06/2008 at 23:25:57
Since the club chose to go down the route of a ?democratic process?, surely they should expect that dissenters will voice their malaise? In fact, this makes me wonder to what extent the Yes voters would be objecting now had the vote gone the other way ? somehow I cannot see this level of frustration had the vote decided to kick the Tesco plan in the head.
6 Posted 29/06/2008 at 01:04:03
7 Posted 29/06/2008 at 04:10:37
Do you really think your rants on the web make any difference at all? In the real world where have been the fans protests against the move.. you know, the thousands up in arms against the move and against the regeneration plan as a whole?
There ain?t been any because your in the minority, more people abstained than voted NO, didn?t that tell you something! The Government couldn?t give a toss that Everton want to move to Kirkby, their only concern is whether the plan as a whole is to the benefit to the area and the people of Kirkby.
Your protests are futile, your threats to abandon your club are sickening, the denegration of Kirkby and its people have been an absolute disgrace, your vitriol about an arbitrary boundary has been utterly incomprehensible. I hope those who have stated they won?t go will have the courage of their convictions and stay away even if the project is cancelled because if you follow your own logic the reason you won?t go to Kirkby is because you disagree with the board's/club decision, well their decision won?t have changed so why would you continue going to the game?
8 Posted 29/06/2008 at 07:22:29
Because of our unique position in English football, a move away from Walton was always going to be a hell of a problem. Had any of the management team been able to come up with just one credible assertion that moving to Kirkby would increase income significantl enough to make the transition worthwhile, many dissenters may just have swallowed it. This has reeked of incompetance from day 1, and those who hold views contrary to the accepted wisdom of the yes voters are not only entitled to voice their opposition but could also be said to be duty bound to do so.
Tinpot dictators usually seem to be all knowing and all powerful till just before they fall. Mr. Wyness may be no exception to this. The yes voters usually cite hard headed business sense to support their rather curious optimism. In reality, their hopes are founded on dreams (of larger attendances and greater corporate sales) far wilder and hallucinatory than anything mentioned by no voters.
9 Posted 29/06/2008 at 09:01:56
That's great. Well done.
But, its now the 21st century, and with change, comes wrinkles. The people who dont want to move are worried that they might have to get off their bums and travel a wee bit farther to watch the team play, so they?ll jump up and down to stay in a decrepid old ground. Do you think a couple more miles is going to worry me half way around the world? Goodison is JUST a stadium.
Get over it. Let's build a new one, spread a bit of blue around once more, because its rather stagnant compared to the other teams out there.
If you have been supporting since 1958 dont you think we deserve better?? Don't you think if the team aint going nowhere you cut a few heads off and shake things up? New manager, some new players, new thinking.
It makes me sad that some crusty old molluscs still clinging to the ?ancient ways? would rather stop our progress.
Out of the way granpas. Were always playing catch up with you dragging us down.
10 Posted 29/06/2008 at 09:17:26
I?m not sure about ?alienating disabled supporters?.
i would have thought that a brand new stadium with up to date facilities would include (surely have to include by law?) disabled access.
To suggest that every other ground in the country will have disabled facilities/access other than the our new one at Kirkby is, quite frankly, ridiculous. The bloody thing is in the middle of a retail park. Are disabled shoppers going to be persona non grata also ? Think it through for god s sake.
And Dick Fearon "Those bastard yes voters"?
Oh dear. You can blame the club all you like for dividing our support, but I?m afraid that kind of remark is completely unacceptable. And all your own work. Fancy someone having an alternative opinion to yours? The bloody cheek of it!
11 Posted 29/06/2008 at 09:58:49
Now, instead of an ageist rant, how about simply addressing the soundness of the business issues surrounding the proposal? Because, as far as I know, the answer to commercial problems is rarely to run round like a headless robocop shooting blindly and hoping for better.
12 Posted 29/06/2008 at 10:10:32
i agree that "Davo" should probably learn his history, and have far more respect for us long standing Evertonians.
One small gripe though:-
Pikeys/Gypsies robbed my washing a few years ago from the line in the garden, so I cant have any sympathy with any of them. I?d just been away an all, so all my good gear was being washed... honest, just ask the insurance company who settled my claim!..
13 Posted 29/06/2008 at 09:34:06
14 Posted 29/06/2008 at 11:15:54
15 Posted 29/06/2008 at 11:12:39
It's your attitude which really gets to me because your whole argumnet is based on age. We all have our views and opinions and age should never be brought in to the debate.
I will not go to Kirkby and one of my sons(25) will not also go but the other son (28) voted yes. We respect each others choices.
About time you did also.
16 Posted 29/06/2008 at 11:22:46
I can understand why so many are loath to leave the old lady but that is the problem. She is old, very very old and not of the modern age of football.
The name EVERTON is well known in the UK and is becoming better known on the continent since the success of the players last year. It is the name of the club not the situation which is important and if a move to Kirkby facilitates the improvement in the club’s fortunes, then the name will become increasingly well known.
Reading comments made about the projected move, it has often seemed to me that one of the objections has been the lack of pubs at Kirkby.
That wouldn’t worry me one iota. I think pubs and football should be kept well apart. Too often
supporters, half cut , spoil the pleasure of watching the game for others with obscene shouts and aggressive behaviour.
Do I care where we are able to build a new ground. Frankly, ’No’ so long as its generally in the Liverpool area. Mostly I want the club I have followed for over 70 years to regain its position as one of the best clubs in England and, slowly I think its beginning to march in that direction.
So, if its Kirkby, so be it. I could never ever desert the club because they move there. . I’m frankly ashamed that Everton have ’so called’ supporters who maintain they would desert for such a reason
17 Posted 29/06/2008 at 11:43:08
I live in a far away country that wouldnt know Everton if it decided to team up with a dingo and steal someones baby. I did see an Everton logo on the window of the flat across the road, so we are out there.
My point is that businesses often get into bed with one another for truly advantageous reasons. Is moving a case of we shouldnt move because weve been here for ages? Thats all I seem to hear. Money wise? Seems pretty sound to have one of the most succesful businesses on your shores want to team up with you and build you a shiny new stadium in an underdeveloped part of town.
When we hosted the Olympics, we decided to redevelop a whole area which was one swamp land, a dumping ground. Now its an econmically thriving hub with modern apartments, tree lined boulevards and a host of man made parks and Urban spaces. The whole waterfront was reinvigorated and a host of League teams now play there when they can.
I apologise to the seniors brigade, but I ask you... what is everyone motivation for NOT wanting to move a few miles down the road? You dont want to sell out? You do that everytime you buy a commercially branded product. Its the most common thread in western civilisation and we should be proud of it. You dont want to travel a few extra kilometers/miles? Get over yourselves. If your that lazy youll love being able to do abit of shopping while your at the game. Itll save two trips. It will DESTROY OUR CLUB? Well im not sure if your Tesco?s sells WMD?s but Im probably sue they dont.
Why would a succesfully run business want to risk such a shambolic enterprise?? One again, our history will show our own ineptitude if we delay and ?dither? around on this issue.
Liverpool's a big place, and the last time I looked, we wernt called Liverpool. We are Everton.
We could be based in freakin Scotland but we?d still be Everton.
We should transcend borders, and you guys are just bloocksing it up for the good of our own future.
18 Posted 29/06/2008 at 12:02:11
You are a true blue.
19 Posted 29/06/2008 at 12:18:53
20 Posted 29/06/2008 at 12:30:35
This is an ineresting point and I hate to imagibe what this site will be like when/if the deal gets called in.
I aleady have the names in my head of teh posters who will genuinely believe their posts were the reason that the project got called in and wili gloat no end.
However you will more than likely get plenty of the Yes’s doing thesame if it isn’t.
I am not sure what I am trying to say but one thing we should remember is that we are all Evertonians and this oneupmanship is doing no one any good on this site.
21 Posted 29/06/2008 at 13:30:01
22 Posted 29/06/2008 at 14:03:41
How will moving from a vibrant city to a mid-range stadium on a retail park in a small town affect your match-gong experience?
23 Posted 29/06/2008 at 14:57:46
In you far away land....How will moving from a vibrant city to a mid-range stadium on a retail park in a small town affect your match-gong experience?
24 Posted 29/06/2008 at 15:02:52
Nah didnt think so mate.....an if it doesn't go ahead, whether its down to us or not who gives a shit as long as it doesn't go ahead.
25 Posted 29/06/2008 at 16:02:54
From time to time, daddies have to say no to the children.
Daddy, can I drive the car?
Daddy, can I drink your whisky?
Daddy, can I have a gun?
Daddy, can I sleep with the nice lady next door?
When it comes to even more important matters, the question, daddy, can we move to Kirkby? should be met with a very firm shake of the head and the answer, you’ll understand when you get older.
26 Posted 29/06/2008 at 17:01:14
27 Posted 29/06/2008 at 17:41:30
28 Posted 29/06/2008 at 18:43:32
If we move to Kirkby, I will stop going. My decision is not based purely on moving to Kirkby. I think football itself is losing its appeal. You can only win anything now if you’ve got money. The top 4 keep getting richer and signing the better players from those below. Effectively, if you’re not in the champions league you’re a feeder club. Players are overpaid and have no loyalty yet we sing and chant their names as though they’re gods. If you’re not in the top 4, the style of play you’re team plays is ’gritty’ and ’determined’ just to try and compete with the other gritty and determined teams. We even need a shit load of cash just to stand still.
Sky and the G14 are quickly draining any romance and interest out of the game. I don’t think being a blue is what it used to be. This whole Kirkby debacle shows the club couldn’t give a shit about us the fans. If we move, we’re just another manufactured bunch of fans paying into the whole Sky crap with our replica shirts on sat in a new characterless stadium with no atmosphere.
I don’t particularly like watching us at the moment, we play too much hoofball. I go though for the whole matchday experience and this will be lost if we move to Kirkby so what’s the point?
29 Posted 29/06/2008 at 20:15:11
30 Posted 29/06/2008 at 23:51:04
We deserve a chairman who is honest and not a liar, he's been caught out more times than the England cricket team. Sadly for me, anyhow, if it's true that the parkingis a long walk from the stadium then I?m stuffed as I?m disabled and a walk that far is out of the question. But believe me if I thought it was better for the club I would still have voted for it. It's the future of the club that counts not any one person but I would be grateful if anyone can confirm about the long walk as I?m trying to get a couple of fans who will not go to Kirkby to change their minds and if this is true there's no point because they have similar health problems to me.
One final point: Davo, if you live so far away what gives you the idea that you know everything about the move? I live a couple of miles from Goodison and still don't know but what dose it matter to you? If you're wrong, it just means you will find a team on the net... To us in the city, it is a bit more important than that.
31 Posted 30/06/2008 at 00:23:14
32 Posted 30/06/2008 at 07:30:40
I didnt realise Goodison was in the middle of a ?vibrant? city. Looks like its right in the middle of a bunch of ugly houses from the photos! Lokks to me like youll save on not getting getting your car nicked when you go to the game.
@ Gavin Ramejkis
I hate those ?obnoxious get over it? types, too. The last thing anyone wants to is progress. Stay stuck in the mid table in the oldest stadium i the league that all the other clubs laugh at.
@ roy coyne
Dont know how to say this mate, but they did invent things called wheelchairs. But one point, they dont go up stairs pal.
I cant wait till we move to a new stadium and all you ?true blues? keep on with your hissy fits.
Put your toys back in your prams, Everton will survive without you and will be better off.
33 Posted 30/06/2008 at 08:40:39
At the moment, you come across as someone who is far more interested in hearing his own voice, no matter how unpleasant and faintly ludicrous the noises are.
Could it be that, like the Board, once the complete dishonesty of the project is exposed, you have very little to say other than yah boo sucks?
If you believe that the opinions of many thousands of Evertonians count for so little, I have to wonder what your motivations are. I may believe that the yes voters were horribly misguided and are now desperately trying to cover their emarrassment with some shreds of faulty argument, but I don’t believe they are either wicked or a waste of spece. I have a large family, some of whom I find very trying, but we rub along together for the greater good.
Perhaps, instead of typing nasty little posts, you could spend the time much more profitably thinking over why so many people should disagree with your viewpoint and arriving at a rather more intelligent conclusion than they’re all senile wasters whose only aim in life is to hold back or destroy the club they love.
34 Posted 30/06/2008 at 09:02:12
35 Posted 30/06/2008 at 09:05:06
especially for the conspiracy theorists. Labour gov keeping labour local gov sweet. It does happen.
I guess it’s not over till it’s over.
36 Posted 30/06/2008 at 09:56:35
37 Posted 30/06/2008 at 09:54:37
And you’re wrong to dismiss no-voters as granpas threatening to stop going. Me and mates who I go the game with are all around 19-23 and even though we’ve grown up knowing football to be the corporate monster that it is now, many of us feel the same things regarding disillusion in the game and those who run it that Alan Clarke feels (39th game?) and they won’t be taking a penny from me if the move happens. Where do we stop if the club is moved? How long before the name is changed, or the badge? When does it stop being our Everton?
We’re always hearing how the views of all Evertonians (matchgoers or not) on these pages are equal, which I agree with. So why do we deserve criticism for refusing to go along with the shambles that is DK?
38 Posted 30/06/2008 at 13:37:23
A dingo should have run away with you lad.
Stay in your far off land (Aussie) and leave the most important move in Everton's history to the proper fans who actually go to the game.
39 Posted 30/06/2008 at 14:23:51
40 Posted 30/06/2008 at 15:29:18
41 Posted 30/06/2008 at 17:06:08
"Anyone who is a proper Blue will go to the match"
Question, are you Madden NOT in disguise?
42 Posted 30/06/2008 at 16:55:05
Number 8 .........Anfield
Number 2... Goodison
Therefore, contrary to what Davo says from the other side of the world, Goodison is clearly a ground that holds a particular emotive resonance for Evertonians and non-Evertonians alike, something which i honestly believe could never be created in Kirkby.
Personally, although strongly against the move, I have decided to still go see the team in the new ground if it comes about, but only because of my love for the club and in no way as a vindicatin for the move. However, I believe that those fans who have decided not to go to DK if it happens are thoroughly justified in their choice as well and those views need to be respected equally.