The Mail Bag
Trumped again
Comments (21)
Once again, we have lost out to a supposed smaller club over one of our transfer targets. I'm assuming Moyes did want Koumas as all I ever seemed to read or hear on local radio stations or papers was that the midfielder was top priority on Moyes list. Now we have lost out again because all we seem capable of doing is monitoring situations rather than making some actual moves for players. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that what clubs do all throughout the season when the transfer window is closed? Monitor situations... Is that not what scouts are for?
Yet for some reason we have thinned the squad in terms of numbers and as a result we have one less creative midfielder on our books than we finished the season with what with Fernandes leaving. Now I guess should Arteta have one bad game in 38 we will get the same half-wits on the phone-ins saying he is stinking the place out. But that's down to the defensive-minded mode that is typed into David Moyes's tactical brain.
Lets not kid ourselves: how many people think we have moved forward this summer? Jagielka will prove to be a good signing just as Phil Neville was. As he will do more or less exactly the same as Phil Neville has done... because he is the SAME type of player! What we needed was to take the burden off AJ and Arteta and sign some attacking options. Just as Fernandes took the pressure off Arteta last term when Cahill got crocked, we need that now but tell Moyes and his staff this.
What happens if Johnson gets injured again? We are putting the pressures of a long season on the shoulders of two young youth players who should really be getting slowly blended in, Vaughan already was forced to start more games than he should have. Don't burn the lad out! Here is a question: Moyes has been here for just over five years now, how many strikers has he bought in this time? I think as everyone may guess it can be counted on the one hand...
All in all, after finising 6th and having the carrot of Europe dangling to attract a lot of players here, we can say up to now that it has been an overwhelming dissapointment so far. I want to be proved so wrong in the next few weeks but I wouldn't be holding my breath on this one.
Paul Peterson, Posted 10/07/2007 at 08:43:43
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Steve Claringbold
2 Posted 11/07/2007 at 07:06:13
2 Posted 11/07/2007 at 07:06:13
What kind of message is the club sending to fans? Here we have two young players with some ability who could become great players under a good manager and they have said that they are desperate to sign for Everton. Why didn’t we sign them? Why did we let them sign for our competitors?
More to the point, what the hell is going on?
More to the point, what the hell is going on?
Andy Baker
3 Posted 11/07/2007 at 07:10:03
3 Posted 11/07/2007 at 07:10:03
Firstly, has anyone actually ever heard Moyse say he wants Koumas or Nugent?
Secondly, at 27 how can you class Koumas as young?
Please Paul dont tar Jagielka with Phil Nevilles brush. I watched him last year at least a dozen times and the lads got something.
Yes we need numbers but lets looka t some positives. When moyse took over he had a geriatric squad with an avergae age of about 35! Now look at us signing young and english players and getting them on long contracts. Cahill, Jags, arteta and Howard all on 5 year deals and the eldest is 27, Johnson, Lescott, Yobo, Vaighn, Anichebe all on 4 years+. Were not a million miles away im telling yer. Yes we need numbers but not just shite to make up the numbers.
Wait till we actually make an offer that is accepted by a club befor you believe the silly pages.
If we had an offer accepted by WBA for Koumas and he went to wigan i would be worried, same with Nugent. Dont forget Koumas couldnt get a sniff with WBA in the prem, WHY? cos Kieron richardson was on loan there and he couldnt get a look in.....the same Richardson nobody on ere wants cos hes shite!
Relax and be optimistic, i dont know about you but i cant wait for the wigan game!
Secondly, at 27 how can you class Koumas as young?
Please Paul dont tar Jagielka with Phil Nevilles brush. I watched him last year at least a dozen times and the lads got something.
Yes we need numbers but lets looka t some positives. When moyse took over he had a geriatric squad with an avergae age of about 35! Now look at us signing young and english players and getting them on long contracts. Cahill, Jags, arteta and Howard all on 5 year deals and the eldest is 27, Johnson, Lescott, Yobo, Vaighn, Anichebe all on 4 years+. Were not a million miles away im telling yer. Yes we need numbers but not just shite to make up the numbers.
Wait till we actually make an offer that is accepted by a club befor you believe the silly pages.
If we had an offer accepted by WBA for Koumas and he went to wigan i would be worried, same with Nugent. Dont forget Koumas couldnt get a sniff with WBA in the prem, WHY? cos Kieron richardson was on loan there and he couldnt get a look in.....the same Richardson nobody on ere wants cos hes shite!
Relax and be optimistic, i dont know about you but i cant wait for the wigan game!
Ross
4 Posted 11/07/2007 at 07:21:05
4 Posted 11/07/2007 at 07:21:05
I’m glad we didn’t sign them.
It’s like Roy Keane said yesterday: There are not alot of great players going about and teams are paying over the odds for players.
Moyes isn’t splashing because there’s no-one he’s seen as worth splashing it on. I think if we’re patient we’ll see 3 or 4 come in, in the next few weeks.
It’s like Roy Keane said yesterday: There are not alot of great players going about and teams are paying over the odds for players.
Moyes isn’t splashing because there’s no-one he’s seen as worth splashing it on. I think if we’re patient we’ll see 3 or 4 come in, in the next few weeks.
John Cottee
5 Posted 11/07/2007 at 08:28:45
5 Posted 11/07/2007 at 08:28:45
Trumped again? Your having a laugh, Moyes simply didn’t bother bidding for these two over-priced players. Had Moyes wanted them I’m sure he would have signed them because they both desired a Goodison move.
Everton certainly were not trumped, the idea of Wigan trumping Everton is offensive, Moyes just didn’t bother putting a bid in.
Both Koumas and Nugent are now reflecting at what could have been, both wanted to join Everton but both now find themselves at very average clubs.
So Moyes didn’t want Koumas/Nugent, so who does he want? Exciting seven weeks on the horizon.
Everton certainly were not trumped, the idea of Wigan trumping Everton is offensive, Moyes just didn’t bother putting a bid in.
Both Koumas and Nugent are now reflecting at what could have been, both wanted to join Everton but both now find themselves at very average clubs.
So Moyes didn’t want Koumas/Nugent, so who does he want? Exciting seven weeks on the horizon.
barry bragg
6 Posted 11/07/2007 at 09:36:08
6 Posted 11/07/2007 at 09:36:08
I feel the frustration too but lets wait till the window shuts/season starts before making such absolute judgements. We are in a better position than these other clubs cos we started the window with a far better team then they did and they are playing catch up.
There is a lot of desperation out there and teams are paying over the odds for what are at best average prem players.
Neither Koumas nor Nugent will set the league alight next year.
We may only have a small squad but with maybe two exceptions they are all decent players who know how to slot into our team style. Yes we lost a few players last year but mostly deadwood which again makeas us stronger. I for one cant wait for the season to start.
There is a lot of desperation out there and teams are paying over the odds for what are at best average prem players.
Neither Koumas nor Nugent will set the league alight next year.
We may only have a small squad but with maybe two exceptions they are all decent players who know how to slot into our team style. Yes we lost a few players last year but mostly deadwood which again makeas us stronger. I for one cant wait for the season to start.
Paul Clays
7 Posted 11/07/2007 at 09:39:26
7 Posted 11/07/2007 at 09:39:26
If I remember rightly I am sure Moyes said last summer that he didn’t want to pay over 7 million for Johnson and then when Wigan and Bolton came in and offered more Moyes decided he wanted him so much he matched there offer and allowed Johnson to choose which club he wanted to play for the most and we all know where he went. I am sure if Moyes wanted Koumas or Nugent enough he would have offered the same money and let the players choose which club to go to. The fact that Moyes didn’t do this tells me he didn’t really want either player that much and didn’t want to pay over the odds for them. If I am right in second guessing Moyes then I’m glad because although both Koumas and Nugent would have been good additions to the side they are not worth the money paid for them. Have some faith people Moyes must have other players in mind for less money (I hope!!!).
Brian Baker
8 Posted 11/07/2007 at 10:15:50
8 Posted 11/07/2007 at 10:15:50
With 6 strikers on our books, did we really need Nugent? If we did sign him, where do you think he would be in the pecking order?
4th ahead of McFadden and BT maybe.
4th ahead of McFadden and BT maybe.
Neil Vaughan
9 Posted 11/07/2007 at 10:19:37
9 Posted 11/07/2007 at 10:19:37
Having had time to think about our ltest ’one that got away’... I have to back the manager on this one. Neither Nugent or Koumas are worth the fees paid. How many Evertonians can honestly believe they are??...However I am becoming more and more concerned with each passing day regarding the lack of transfer activity and the apparent apathy from the club in relation to this. Only yesterday we were being linked with Baines who I believe would be a good signing. However the price is allegedly £6 mil will Moyes pay that kind of fee ?...On current evidence I don’t think he’ll be an Everton player in the near future..do You ?!?
Peter Singer
10 Posted 11/07/2007 at 10:56:30
10 Posted 11/07/2007 at 10:56:30
It was told on local radio so it must be true.
John Holmes
11 Posted 11/07/2007 at 10:59:40
11 Posted 11/07/2007 at 10:59:40
I totally agree with most of the comments here. I said in an article a couple of weeks back that Everton should only pay for a player what the player is worth to Everton; not what he is worth to the seller. If Moyes has deemed Koumas and Nugent not to be worth more than £5m to Everton then we walk away just like we did when Barton wanted too high wages.
I’m sure those who like to characterise the manager as Dithering Davie will be out in force again but the reality is this transfer window has been typified by the dithering of players and clubs rather than managers. Sheffield United wouldn’t release Jagielka because their fate wasn’t sealed (despite everyone knowing it was), Smith won’t make up his mind if he wants to leave Old Trafford and Ferguson won’t sell him anyway until Tevez is signed which requires West Ham and the Premier League to stop dithering over the legalese (clearly the ties weren’t as cut with Joorachian as claimed). Nugent’s spent weeks dithering over his future because he can’t accept that Everton are not going to pay over the odds for him. He had the choice over whether to hold out for his dream move and he’s backed away from it.
Final point, Moyes hasn’t signed many strikers no, (McFadden, Beattie, Johnson, Bent McBride (loan), Jeffers (loan), Jutkiewicz... only 5 plus two loans in 5 years) but he has brought a further 3 through the ranks (Rooney, Vaughan, Anichebe) and considering there were four (at least) at the club when he took over (Radzinski, Campbell, Ferguson, Chadwick) I don’t think the use of 14 strikers in 5 and a half years is really so bad.
I’m sure those who like to characterise the manager as Dithering Davie will be out in force again but the reality is this transfer window has been typified by the dithering of players and clubs rather than managers. Sheffield United wouldn’t release Jagielka because their fate wasn’t sealed (despite everyone knowing it was), Smith won’t make up his mind if he wants to leave Old Trafford and Ferguson won’t sell him anyway until Tevez is signed which requires West Ham and the Premier League to stop dithering over the legalese (clearly the ties weren’t as cut with Joorachian as claimed). Nugent’s spent weeks dithering over his future because he can’t accept that Everton are not going to pay over the odds for him. He had the choice over whether to hold out for his dream move and he’s backed away from it.
Final point, Moyes hasn’t signed many strikers no, (McFadden, Beattie, Johnson, Bent McBride (loan), Jeffers (loan), Jutkiewicz... only 5 plus two loans in 5 years) but he has brought a further 3 through the ranks (Rooney, Vaughan, Anichebe) and considering there were four (at least) at the club when he took over (Radzinski, Campbell, Ferguson, Chadwick) I don’t think the use of 14 strikers in 5 and a half years is really so bad.
Erik Dols
12 Posted 11/07/2007 at 10:49:41
12 Posted 11/07/2007 at 10:49:41
I agree with Andy Baker and the others claiming the price/quality-ratio for these players was well out of other. I also agree with the most of you that we need more players if we want to have a cup run both in Europe and domestically. Even without these cups some positions really need back-ups.
Really, Wigan buying Koumas says more about Wigan than it says about us. And even Sunderland eventually pulled out of the Nugent-transfer. He looks to be going to Pompey, but if I hear all the talk coming from Redknapp, he won’t be one of the two starting strikers there. I’m glad we are not paying some 7 millions for a back-up striker with potential, but nothing more than that.
Really, Wigan buying Koumas says more about Wigan than it says about us. And even Sunderland eventually pulled out of the Nugent-transfer. He looks to be going to Pompey, but if I hear all the talk coming from Redknapp, he won’t be one of the two starting strikers there. I’m glad we are not paying some 7 millions for a back-up striker with potential, but nothing more than that.
Adam Carey
13 Posted 11/07/2007 at 11:59:13
13 Posted 11/07/2007 at 11:59:13
To be honest I’m not overly fussed that we haven’t signed Koumas as I don’t think he is a good enough player for our club.
However, the fact that some of us are pissed off about it only highlights the current state of our transfer dealings this summer, and the pool of ’talent’ is getting ever smaller...
Forget KEIOC, how about KBSBP, (Kenwright Buy Some Bloody Players)!
However, the fact that some of us are pissed off about it only highlights the current state of our transfer dealings this summer, and the pool of ’talent’ is getting ever smaller...
Forget KEIOC, how about KBSBP, (Kenwright Buy Some Bloody Players)!
Tony Hawkins
14 Posted 11/07/2007 at 12:08:48
14 Posted 11/07/2007 at 12:08:48
...I am not convinced that Moyes has made too many advances for players and certainly very few have been repoted. The only one I know of is PJ and we signed him!
Brendan Fox
15 Posted 11/07/2007 at 12:01:56
15 Posted 11/07/2007 at 12:01:56
Paul you are entitled to your opinion but why the panic? Why should the club pay massively over the odds/worth for the two aforementioned players? They are not simply worth it that’s why! The club have not acted as quick as last season because of the silly money being asked by selling clubs. I say we sit with our cards close to our chest wait for some of these so called ’good’ players( i use the term loosely) to have not found a club before the end of the transfer window. Then lots of clubs will slash the prices they are after to get rid whilst the goings good. That is when EFC will delve into the market when the prices are more realistic.
Lee Spargo
16 Posted 11/07/2007 at 12:39:29
16 Posted 11/07/2007 at 12:39:29
Nugent is over-priced. Koumas is crap.
Bed Vaughan in slowly? - Just like Rooney then, when he got pissed off because Moyes was playing Radzinzki ahead of him? Start the lad - he’s got what it takes.
We should focus on signing a left-sided midfielder and a strong defensive center midfielder to replace the ageing Carsley.
Bed Vaughan in slowly? - Just like Rooney then, when he got pissed off because Moyes was playing Radzinzki ahead of him? Start the lad - he’s got what it takes.
We should focus on signing a left-sided midfielder and a strong defensive center midfielder to replace the ageing Carsley.
Mick Stanley
17 Posted 11/07/2007 at 12:39:55
17 Posted 11/07/2007 at 12:39:55
Whether Koumas and Nugent were over priced is dependant on perspective. Do you just look at realistic market value or do you look at what a particular player will be worth to the club over a long period. Until EFC can finish in the top 6 in at least two consecutive seasons, I believe that we are right to look at market value (in which case both players probably were over priced). Once we have proved, not least to ourselves, that we can achieve a regular top 6 place, then we can look to take the next step into the top 4, which may well need a change of perspective where we are prepared, if not actually willing, to pay over the odds prices because we believe that a particular player is potentially worth the risk over the long term. I hate to say it, but look at Spurs...two consecutive 5th place finishes, they now believe that they can move to the next level and probably believe that Arsenal are there for the taking. Their response has been to spend big on players like Bent. Is he worth £16M? Most of us would say NO, but Spurs clearly believe that if he helps them achieve their ambition of a top 4 fiish that it is money well spent. There is a subtle difference...perspective. Clearly, Leeds showed that there have to be limits regardless of ambition. Is MNoyes capable of a change of perspective? I don’t know, but then I don’t think that we have proved that we are ready for the next step yet. This could wee explain the Manny Fernandes situation. Is he worth £10-12M? At this moment in time, probably not. But what might his long term value to the club be? What could he have helped us to achieve? Lets hope that next summer we are in a position to really ask such questions.
I firmly believe that last summer DM made very significant improvements to the squad with the signing of AJ, Joleon and Tim Howard. This was boosted by the emergence of Anichebe and Vaughan. If DM can achieve a similar level of overall improvement this summer and repeat, at least, 6th place then we should realistically be satisfied, as long as we as a club are prepared the take the plunge at that time to reach the next level.
I firmly believe that last summer DM made very significant improvements to the squad with the signing of AJ, Joleon and Tim Howard. This was boosted by the emergence of Anichebe and Vaughan. If DM can achieve a similar level of overall improvement this summer and repeat, at least, 6th place then we should realistically be satisfied, as long as we as a club are prepared the take the plunge at that time to reach the next level.
Paul Atress
18 Posted 11/07/2007 at 13:09:18
18 Posted 11/07/2007 at 13:09:18
Mick Stanley the biggest difference between Spurs and Everton is that they are willing to spend massively in the small hope they can leap frog their rivals and finish 4th. No chance of that.
Everton on the other hand have already done that once and Moyes didn’t have to spend big to do it.
Let Spurs spend whatever they want, who gives a fuck, Everton have already achieved what Spurs can only dream about, and with Moyes as manager I’m sure we’ll repeat the 4th feat without having to contribute to the over-priced players market.
Have some faith and stop looking over the fench to see what the neighbours are up to.
Ask yourself this, not only are Everton the last team outside of the ’big 4’ to break that monopoly but who was the last ’non-big 4’ side to win the FA Cup? Was it Spurs? I don’t think so.
Let those cockney tossers spend their millions they will never be as big as Everton.
Everton on the other hand have already done that once and Moyes didn’t have to spend big to do it.
Let Spurs spend whatever they want, who gives a fuck, Everton have already achieved what Spurs can only dream about, and with Moyes as manager I’m sure we’ll repeat the 4th feat without having to contribute to the over-priced players market.
Have some faith and stop looking over the fench to see what the neighbours are up to.
Ask yourself this, not only are Everton the last team outside of the ’big 4’ to break that monopoly but who was the last ’non-big 4’ side to win the FA Cup? Was it Spurs? I don’t think so.
Let those cockney tossers spend their millions they will never be as big as Everton.
Mick Stanley
19 Posted 11/07/2007 at 13:18:45
19 Posted 11/07/2007 at 13:18:45
Paul Atress. I know perfectly well that we finished fourth above the Red Shite. But did we repeat it the following season...no we were actually pretty crap. We have to achieve consistency and, as I pointed out, I believe that DM is doing the right thing in looking to achieve an overall improvement in the squad without any false dawn promises of being chanpionship contenders. There will come a time however when we will probably have to think bigger. This does not just cover transfer fees but player wages as well. While I believe that both transfer fees and wages are spiralling to a ridicualous level, to some degree you have to be prepared to pay top 4 prices if you want to be, and continue to be, a top 4 club.
Brian Waring
20 Posted 11/07/2007 at 13:25:09
20 Posted 11/07/2007 at 13:25:09
I think the problem is not that we don’t want to pay over the odds for players,we just haven’t got the money to do it.It seems as soon as a player is quoted at £5m+ we cool-off.Baines has been touted at £6m and in my opinion is worth it because the lad is quality and a good investment.But we probalby won’t hear anymore intrest from us now because we can’t afford it.What Iwould like to know is,where has all the money gone?
John Patrick McFarlane
21 Posted 11/07/2007 at 17:29:04
21 Posted 11/07/2007 at 17:29:04
I agree with Brian Waring’s point about where has the money gone? Everton have not been outside the Premier League since its formation. The average crowd has remained in the mid 30K’s , the wage bill has risen but not by as much as some clubs. We have seen the Park End re-developed and the building of the new complex at Finch Farm. I am pretty sure that someone in authority at Goodison once stated that the ’Stadium money’ was ring-fenced, so where is it?
Bill’s stint at Goodison is nearer to 10 years than 5 years yet the club off the park at least does not feel improved since the departure of agent Johnson. This is why some of us fret and despair at the lack of progress and worry that we will yet again witness the down-side of the rollercoaster this coming season.
Bill’s stint at Goodison is nearer to 10 years than 5 years yet the club off the park at least does not feel improved since the departure of agent Johnson. This is why some of us fret and despair at the lack of progress and worry that we will yet again witness the down-side of the rollercoaster this coming season.
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1 Posted 10/07/2007 at 12:22:51
For Christ's sake we came 6th and in Europe, gate monies are up & we are now struggling for cash, or maybe DM does not want to compete for the signature of players? On top of that, we sold three players this year (2007) released four, I mean what a saving that is in wages. And brought in just one ? who used to play for us!