ToffeeWeb - Season 2007-08

The Mail Bag

Can't win anything with kids?

So Koumas has gone elsewhere (mighty Wigan!) while Nugent could do no better than Portsmouth... disaster for Everton eh? Nonsense!

Neither player would have made Everton's first team and Koumas would have struggled to get a place on the bench ahead of Osman.

So we are thought to be in for Richardson and all the usual reject talk comes out again. OK - on one hand he is a reject just like two of our best players from last season - Howard was well off even a bench place when United sent him away and Arteta couldn't get a game for a mediocre la Liga side in his home town before we bought him 'for a song'.

Going back a bit, we signed Martin Dobson from Blackburn and in these glorious days gone by we made him the most expensive mid field player England had ever seen. The great Martin Dobson was a reject - Bolton had freed him as a young man.

Jagielka and Barton were rejected by Everton - Baines too? Now we want them or did at some stage want them back. Maybe instead of our preoccupation with who to buy, we should actually be looking at the younger players we have at the club right now. Three years down the line will we be offering somebody £6 million to get Mark Hughes back ? Who can tell?

Do we have at the club today a left back who could be a stalwart for Everton for most of the next decade? If young Boyle keeps fit and learning at the rate he was doing before his 'Season from Hell' let's give him a chance and see if he is as good as he sometimes looked ahead of last season. Will we ever know how good Vidarsson can be if we do not give him a game for the first team? Get an experienced back up goalie and we will be set for another good season.
Glen Strachan, Oaxaca , Mexico Posted 11/07/2007 at 15:40:47

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TaxiClubBlue
1 Posted 11/07/2007 at 17:48:30

Two words to bolster your views Glen: Kevin and Sheedy.

Oliver McAdam
2 Posted 11/07/2007 at 17:49:46

Cant compare Mark Hughes to the others. Hughes was a full-time academy graduate who Moyes saw a not having what it takes for the first team in premiership. Jags, Baines n co were released at 14,15,16 as many youngsters are, sometimes they just need another coach or club to develop in.

Vidarsson and Boyle look decent, and maybe could break into the team. However, including them we still lack a winger and defensive mid. No need for goalie though as Turner (be fair and forget those mistakes, he is a talented player) and Ruddy make good young back-up who won’t complain about not playing yet could keep Howard on his toes.

But agreed on with Koumas and Nugent at a total of 11.3 million for 2 average division 1 players. The same people criticising Moyes for not signing them would be criticisng him for signing them at too much and wasting our budget.

If we get Baines, Richardson (over-rated but still an improvement) then next season we will be much better off and another 05/06 season will not happen. If we sell Beatts and bring in Smith then top 4 is a possibility.

Tony Marsh
3 Posted 11/07/2007 at 18:05:03

To many of you are missing the point here regarding transfers or lack of.

I rate Nuggent and think he will be another Darren Bent or Dean Ashton who Moyes also let slip through his grasp.Remember we could of had Nuggent for £2 million last year.Dithered.

The point being Nuggent ,Barton etc were sold for the going rate and we couldnt afford it.Why?

All this bullshit about Nuggent being from a lower league wont wash. Andy Johnson came from that league for more money last season.

Nuggent is an England international who scored on his debut.£6 million aint that much.

We can make all the excuses we like as to why we are not competing in the market but what is the real issue here.

Is Moyes dithering again or is BK holding back the money from him.Its one or the other and we need to know.

We are now being out done by minnows of the EPL and all we do is make excuses for it.It is now officially the time to press the panic buttons lads.

John McClane
4 Posted 11/07/2007 at 18:20:57

Andy Johnson had spent a relatively successful year in the Premier League - Nugent is completely unproven at this level. Nugent for £2million last year ye say - that sounds like a completely unfounded rumour.

Tony tony tony, if you could avoid poor conjecture then you may do your cause more good than the harm ye do. At the end of the day Moyes wasn’t interested in these players at the price they were being sold for - something that although subtle, is very different to not being able to afford it.

Is it also not time to ditch the poor dithering rhetoric and come up with something a bit more inspiring.

Tony Marsh
5 Posted 11/07/2007 at 18:28:13

John McClane you are with out any shadow of a doubt what so ever the first Everton supporter I have heard say Moyes doesnt dither. Where have you been these past 5 years buddy? Moyes is dithering as we speak mate.

so please defend Davey if you must but dont be so foolish as to deny the mans worst attribute. DITHERING.

Gavin Harris
6 Posted 11/07/2007 at 18:34:48

Being a welsh evertonian I know koumas and he is no "average division 1 player".

He would have improved the team considerably, he is skillful, strong and versatile (can play across the midfield).

What worries me is that moyes has been saying on evertontv that he wants one or two more... that is crazy talk. We have released or sold 4 players so he is just replacing them and not adding to the squad. Europe will mean extra games and we struggled for numbers last season.

I hope moyes knows what he is doing...

David Barks
7 Posted 11/07/2007 at 18:43:05

Gavin, what does you being Welsh have to do with you being able to see more than us that he is a good player? We all see the exact same games as you do, it’s not as if he plays for a Welsh league with no TV exposure, he has been playing in England with West Brom. And we also get to see the same Welsh national side that you do and I haven’t seen anything that impresses me much about either. I’m glad we didn’t sign him, he was not worth the money spent on him by Wigan.

Martin Roberts
8 Posted 11/07/2007 at 19:10:46

Tony; yet again your rambles are embarassing.

Dithering over Nugent?
Why? Because he didnt want to pay that high price?
How is that dithering... he didnt sit there saying "yes, no, yes, no, yes, maybe, no, yes".

In fact, you have no clue what he said. All "we" know is that Moyes didnt want him at that price. If at all.

Some people, including Nugents Mother say Everton didnt even inquire.
So... if Everton dont want Nugent how is that dithering?

Good job you arent the manager thats for sure.

Gavin Harris
9 Posted 11/07/2007 at 19:13:11

How many wales games have you seen live?

I watch all of them at the millennium and there is a big difference between watching live at the ground and watchibg the game on the tv where only the ball is followed.

Trust me without Koumas and Bellemy wales would lose every game (i know thats not far off :-))

David Barks
10 Posted 11/07/2007 at 19:26:22

I love that last line Gavin. All I’m saying is that I have seen plenty of Wales games, but not live, but have seen a lot of West Brom games on Setanta Sports and the guy just never stood out to me at all. I just don’t believe that if he was that good he would have spent his entire career in the Championship. The guy is going to be 28 in September, so it’s not as if he is going to develop into a world class player over the next couple of years.

Gavin Harris
11 Posted 11/07/2007 at 19:34:58

To be honest even though I rate him highly I think 5.3m is a bit much. 4m would have been a good deal.

I hope moyes has something up his sleeve otherwise the fans will turn on him if they don?t deliver.

Anthony Dilworth
12 Posted 11/07/2007 at 19:38:57

Martin Dobson was signed from Burnley

David Barks
13 Posted 11/07/2007 at 19:40:25

Gavin, I have been one of the people going up against Marsh all year backing Moyes, but I do want us to bring some more players in as well. I just don’t subscribe to all the people feeding off the rumour mill and using those players as examples of us being out bid when there is no proof what so ever that we wanted them. I hope we sign someone else and believe that we will, but the window is open for nearly two more months.

Brian Waring
14 Posted 11/07/2007 at 20:08:23

John, how do you know Moyes wasn’t interested in these players at the prices they were being sold for? Maybe Marshy is right and the reason is because as soon as they went over a certain fee Moyes was told we couldn’t afford it.At the end of the day none of us know what is going on behind the scenes at the club.Also,I think if we do sign Richardson for £2m+,couldn’t that be a sign of us being skint?But you would probalby say it was a shrewd piece of business by Moyes.And if we do get Richardson(who is shite by the way,and that comes from Man U fans)All the apologists will be out calling it the buy of the season,and how great Moyes is because he got him for what he wanted to pay.

Jon Williams
15 Posted 11/07/2007 at 20:17:25

All this talk about dithering and letting players go is rediculous. Of the players we have released for free, how many games did they play last season in total? 1 game is all the y played between them and that was a 3 - 0 defeat against Utd. Wright is no lose and neither is Pistone. The only player to have played games was Naysmith and he was left on the bench for a Centre back and was probably our 3rd if not 4th Choice left back.

As for missing out on Nugent because of dithering, maybe he just dodn’t rate him at any cost. And maybe he thinks we have the next Dean Ashton/Darren Bent already in the team in the shape of James Vaughan.

Lets get some perspective and moan when there is really something to moan about not when things aren’t happening exactly the way you the piss board supporter would like.

John McClane
16 Posted 12/07/2007 at 00:20:18

I see Mr Marsh didn’t choose to pick up on the major pieces with which I disagreed with him on. Once again focusing on this rather yawnsome "dithering" concept. Only reinforcing my view that it is fairly shallow rhetoric.

Tony Marsh
17 Posted 12/07/2007 at 01:14:26

John Mclane we did sign AJ from the Championship end of story.Thats a fact.Please John dont label me as a rumour monger because I am not one at all.

It just so happens that I have lived in Huyton most of my life and know most of the families we talk about on here.

Bartons,Nuggents,reids,Trundles[Preston] I know them all mate.
Still have a drink with some of the dads and even go away with some of the players and their families.

I dont deal in rumours kidda and I have been knocking around the lounges inside Goodison for donkeys years now and meet players old and new every week.

How many times a season do you get to have a conversation with the likes of the late great Brian Labone or Davey Hickson.We do it every week.I even get to collar BK after most games
at Goodison and make a nuisance of myself.

Be sure to have the facts in place before you next accuse me of Rumourmongering or as I call it lying John.

You dont want to end up with egg on your chin do you mate?

David Barks
18 Posted 12/07/2007 at 03:26:37

Tony, so you know for an absolute fact that we were priced out of Barton and Nugent and didn’t just decide that he wasn’t the right player for the team? You know this for an absolute fact? Were you part of the negotiations? Did the families tell you that the players had talked with Moyes about a move but that Everton said they could not afford the player because we have no cash? Because if this has not happened you are in fact dealing with rumours. And we signed AJ from the Championship after seeing him play in the Premier League for a season and score something like 20 goals I think it was. That is a bit different from Nugent, who has never set foot in a Premiership match. Yes, he came on as a sub and scored a goal in the dying minutes, against Andorra. Real tough competition that must have been, scoring as a substitute against a worn out minnow team that have already lost the game. I am not calling you a liar about knowing those families, I have no doubt actually that you do. I’m just saying that all this paper and internet talk is spreading rumours. If a player is worth it we have spent the money, as we did when buying Johnson for 8.5 Million and Lescott for 5 Million last season. But we don’t need to spend Millions more than we value a player just because Wigan will.

John McClane
19 Posted 12/07/2007 at 09:07:39

Tony,

Whether you like it or not - whether you know these people or have never met them - you will be by doing what you do be perceived as a rumour monger.

If you meet with these people and get some information from them, it is still second hand when it reaches this board. The minute it is passed on to you it is very much open to your interpretation and the "truth" of the case becomes diluted.

I never aimed the rumour monger term at you I merely criticised you for this constantly using the term "dithering." Now if you really have criticism and fact then use it as opposed to this rather poor tabloid type term. I actually value your contributions Tony but think they would be worth alot more if they were reasoned rather than spinning off into some rather cheap jibes.

Also, I did not object to Johnson being signed from the Championship, I simply pointed out the difference between him and Nugent was that Johnson had a year in the Premier League.

Dick Fearon
20 Posted 12/07/2007 at 10:52:01

Football writers in particular are noted for not letting facts spoil a good story. Column space must be filled and there’s nothing like a good rumour to fill it.
A newspapers disgusting beat up about Everton in the early 60s caused Alan Hardacre, then secretary of the football league to say, ’I would not hang a dog on the word of a professional footballer.’ Or then again, did he actually say that?
Does anyone else remember what the beat up was about?

John Ferguson
21 Posted 12/07/2007 at 13:09:02

It is clear to me that the whole Johnson v Nugent debate is a dead herring (yes I mean dead!).

The fact that Nugent is an England international (1 cap versus Andorra)is not significant I’m afraid. The present climate is that we are looking at a poor, underperforming England side led by uninspiring management with a dirth of quality striking options. Added to that, I am sure that any of the contributors to this topic could have opened up their international tally given the chance Nugent had - surely the shortest international goal ever scored!
I have to come down on the non-dithering side on this one as I agree with Moyes alleged valuation of the player and with his alleged unwillingness to go any higher, especially given that I do not see another striker to be a priority at present. If Moyes is going to bring in a striker with European pedigree then i am sure he can garner better value for his money than to throw £6m at this very average individual.
To TOny .... being an almost professional hanger-on does not necessarily make you well informed - no offense.