ToffeeWeb - Season 2007-08

The Mail Bag

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I'm not making any comments about what seems to be another missed opportunity by our very own comedy duo until the start of the new season, when the the picture should be totally clear. The only thing I will say is that the thought of having to suffer Beattie for another season while a potential Everton hero is ploughing his trade at Portsmouth doesn't bear thinking about.

£5m for Koumas too much to pay? What are we now saying? Can't compete even with Wigan. Koumas is a good player with a bit of flair. Anyone heard of a good player blossoming at a club they have a good feeling for (Reid, Bracewell, Van den Hawe etc).

Why don't we form our own breakaway league with wage caps and limits to transfer fees. There will be plenty of teams interested. Southport, Oxford, Chester, MK Dons to name a few. We needed to sign three or four good players and well before the start of the season. Even now is a bit late. Trying to slot them in as the season starts will be another disaster just like two years ago. I have absolutely no confidence in our manager's ability to push us on. History is telling us what will happen.

Anyway like I said no comment until the start of the season and if you don't publish this letter I'm chucking my season ticket in the Mersey. Come on Luq get a grip. It looks like there will be plenty of moaning to do this season so we'll need you! I hope I'm wrong but we still need to get rid of Beattie and Shandy Andy, bring in a good winger and another midfielder before I'll even contemplate top eight.
Ged Dwyer, Liverpool Posted 12/07/2007 at 10:15:44

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Sean Boyd
1 Posted 13/07/2007 at 09:08:50

no faith in moyes? ability to push us on?

starting 11 when moyes first took over:
1.Gerrard/Simonsen
2.Watson
3.Pistone
4.Weir
5.Stubbs
6.Unsworth (LM!)
7.Alexanderson/Carsley(RM!)
8.Gravesen
9.Pembridge
10.Ferguson
11.Campbell/Radzinski

Last year?s 11:
1.Howard
2.Neville
3.Lescott
4.Stubbs
5.Yobo
6.Fernandes
7.Arteta
8.Cahill
9.Carsley
10.Johnson
11.Vaughan
i think its fair to say a lot of progress has been made despite some ups and downs under Moyes. sometimes things have to get worse before they get better. our team will be even stronger with a few more signings. Smith and Richardson would do nicely (so wat if theyre united rejects before anyone starts.)

Tony Marsh
2 Posted 13/07/2007 at 09:54:46

Another Moyes,Muppet using Walter Smiths under funded tenure as an example of how great a manager DM is.
When will you headless chickens stop this fucking idiotic name game.My Dads bigger than yours.

Ged has every right to be worried as do we all.We have witnessed this scenario all to often in recent years and once again just when we think we are on the brink of a new dawn what happens? Fuck all. We waste the opportunity.

If you can not see the similarities to the last time went in to a European campaign then you are either blind or stupid.

Oh and for your information Sean half of that team you mention in the before Moyes column were players who took us to 4th place
in 2004. Watson,Stubbs,Graveson,Ferguson,
Pistone ,Wier all played a massive part that season so what the fuck are you on about.

Paul Atress
3 Posted 13/07/2007 at 10:07:10

Why does Ged and everyone else have every right to be worried? We finished 6th last season, haven’t sold any of our best players and have added a very good one in Jagielka.

Why are we suddenly so worried? Do you think the team that did so well last season has all of a sudden gotten worse over the summer?

At the very least if Moyes has the same side + Jagielka then Everton should easily finish Top 10.

I’d be worried if top players like AJ, Lescott and Arteta had been praised away but that hasn’t happened so why be so fucking worried???

Let Portsmouth have Nugent, AJ is far better, let Wigan have Koumas, their midfield is still weaker considering ours contains top drawer talent like Neville, Cahill and Arteta.

The team proved last season that they are a top side and I see no reason why the same squad of players + Jagielka & the ever improving youngsters cannot repeat and finish Top 6 again.

Alex May
4 Posted 13/07/2007 at 10:26:04

Agree that it is feeble to compare the Walter team with Moyes. In that time, sky has given us about £150m (including next season) and we’ve had the proceeds from a certain Wayne Rooney on top.

(I think the text language at the end of their post tells us much!)

In case nobody has noticed, other established premier league teams have better players too in that time scale.

We cannot hope to have a run in Europe and finish top half (which should be considered an absolute minimum for next season) unless the board find money.

It is unacceptable for the team to fight all year o qualify for europe, only to have me thinking that an early knock out might be necessary to stop a very uncomfortable league season.

Bob Turner
5 Posted 13/07/2007 at 10:40:30

Tony Marsh? Moany Marsh, more like!

The way the Marsh apologists go on, you’d be forgiven for forgetting that we’d just finished 6th. Or that we spent £16.5m on Johnson, Lescott and Howard last season. Or that we got Cahill and Arteta for an absolute f*cking steal! And guess what everyone? They’re still playing for Everton!! If we were Wigan, and we’d scraped survival last season on the last day (anyone remember us doing that in the not too distant past?!?), I’d agree that we’d need to spend £5.3m on the like of Koumas. But we’ve just finished 6th with the best squad we’ve had for some time.

I don’t believe we need to spend over the odds just to placate fans who need some reassurance for their insecurities about the forthcoming season - I’ll trust DM to do a good job with the squad he works with week in, week out. And if you want to call me a Moyes apologist, guess what, I’m not apologising for him, I’m supporting him! Maybe we could all try it sometime, you never know, it might mean our team improves, you know, the one we "love"

Tony Marsh
6 Posted 13/07/2007 at 12:17:07

Bob who said we should spend over the odds mate because I certainly didnt.Its easy to sit back and say .Well we finished 6th last season so we must be good.Thats bullshit.

All the clubs above and below us are getting stronger while we have added one player to an already depleted squad which will be asked to play more games this coming season.How hard is that to fucking understand.

Also I dont care about Koumas or any other player we havent signed
I am more concerned about who is there left to buy if we do go after more players.

One things for sure last seasons top 6 finish counts for nothing once 12th August arrives and we are left lightwieght again.

Once you have managed that thought then you might realise how serious these concerns are.

Saying that Attress is already happy with a top 10 finish which would be a disgrace in my books what with all the Sky money and that.
What a Wally Atress really is.

Paul Atress
7 Posted 13/07/2007 at 12:32:23

Cannot be bother to engage you Tony ’Private Frazer’ Marsh.

Just know this, I am an Everton supporter, we are the best club in the country, we have some great players, we have a great manager, the best fans in the world (yourself excluded) and we are gonna kick the shit out of teams like Wigan, Man City & Sunderland next season no matter how many new faces they have.

See I wear my heart on my sleeve and Everton fucking rule!!!!!

Bob Turner
8 Posted 13/07/2007 at 12:55:31

Tony, I think the needle’s stuck, mate.

Tell you what, I suggest that instead of us all wasting our energies moaning about the lack of signings (or forecasting glory for the coming season, as the case may be), we wait for the season to start, and support our team.

Just a thought...

John Cottee
9 Posted 13/07/2007 at 13:06:14

Paul mate your argument makes no sense but bless ya for it. Thats the attitude we need.

The club is underfunded, low on players and battling the odds but with Moyes in charge and the passionate Everton fans willing their beloved team forward we can do great things.

As you so delicately put it, EVERTON FUCKING RULE!!

Norman Merrill
10 Posted 13/07/2007 at 13:29:36

Who better than Moyes for paying silly money, Beattie & Krøldrup?

Brian Waring
11 Posted 13/07/2007 at 13:22:00

Paul Atress, you said "at least if Moyes has the same side +Jagielka then everton should easily finish top 10"Do you know what my problem is with people like you?It’s you fucking ambition.Happy to stay in that comfort zone of top 10.If we finish 9th you and the other muppets would be happy with that,because it would be another top ’10’ finish.The reason why Tony Marsh and the other passionate fans get ridiculed by you and the like is because they are just that,passionate about the club.As soon as they try and dare slate Moyes and the bullshitter,you all spit your fucking dummies out.Paul in the ’real world’everything is not rosey in the garden,called Everton fc.

Paul Atress
12 Posted 13/07/2007 at 13:51:48

All is not rosey in the garden Brian but it will be a sad day when I run the club down before a ball has even been kicked.

Best club in the world mate.

Paul Atress
13 Posted 13/07/2007 at 13:55:06

Norman your spot on, Moyes did pay silly money for Beattie and Kroldrup. But he?s learned from that and will not be making the same mistake again.

After getting his hands burned on transfers like Beattie and Kroldrup can you really blame Moyes if he takes his time and spends the money wisely now? Nugent with no Prem experience could so easily be another Beattie and thats why Moyes didn?t take a chance and pay silly money for him.

Bob Turner
14 Posted 13/07/2007 at 13:56:48

Brian, the implication of what you are saying is that you are only passionate if you criticise and moan about everything! How dare you accuse me, and others like me, of not being passionate!

I?m not going to get into a competition about who?s the biggest Evertonian, but I?ve been supporting Everton for long enough for my "passionate" credentials to pass muster, even from the likes of you and the other Marsh Apologists!

I personally was gutted that we didn?t finish higher in the league last season, particularly looking at some of the matches where we threw points away. However, I can see beyond the level of bile and hatred that obscures your views, and feel confident that we are moving in the right direction.

By the way, if anyone spat the dummy out, it?s you, but if you get to Mothercare, you can buy a dummy saver, which stops it falling on the floor ;-)

Brian Waring
15 Posted 13/07/2007 at 14:02:41

Paul, thats your choice not to run the club down. But, why do you have to run other fans down when they criticize the club? At the end of the day it?s their opinion, just because they don?t agree with you, so what. And Paul, in my heart we are the best club in the world, that doesn?t mean I can?t slate them though.

Paul Atress
16 Posted 13/07/2007 at 14:12:43

Brian you have to understand that I work with and am friends with many Liverpool supporters and as you can imagine they pretty much run down every aspect of our beloved club, constantly. I simply cannot hear my fellow Everton fans doing the same thing.

I don’t mind constructive arguments but Tony ’Private Frazer’ Marsh has already written off next season and claimed the Euro campaign will end is disaster. That annoys me, at least give the lads half a chance, as I said before a ball hasn’t even been kicked yet.

Yes its going to be difficult but if any club can beat the odds and acheive the impossible its our beloved Everton.

Continually claiming Everton are going to fail just annoys everyone and helps nothing.

Steve Claringbold
17 Posted 13/07/2007 at 14:44:22

Tony Marsh’s hatred of Moyes is daft beyond belief.

I suppose you would like to go back to the good old times of Mike Walker and Walter Smith would you, you know the days when we were nearly relegated every season.

Is is because these days have gone that you have nothing genuine to moan about anymore? We’re in Europe, we’re not spending daft money for the sake of it, we have a good, albeit small, squad of players.

Get a life.

Ged Dwyer
18 Posted 13/07/2007 at 14:33:15

For Everton to continue to progress we needed to sign 3 to 4 good players. If players are going for ridiculous money as Moyes says you need to do one of three things (or a mixture of these): 1.Buy players who are getting on a bit on the cheap. 2.Trust your judgement and buy players who haven’t quite caught the eye of the big clubs yet on the cheap. 3.Or go abroad and pick up a few gems. Moyes hasn’t the ability to do any of these so he becomes the only Premiership manager to sit back do nothing and moan. He’s making his excuses already. If he had any brains he could have purchased Nugent for £1m three years ago instead of wasting £6 on Beattie. Now that’s what I call overpriced. Oh and I think Koldrup was overpriced too, and so was Van Der Meyde, and what about Davies? And even Neville, the best England player I’ve ever seen who can’t pass. It’s a joke.

Brian Waring
19 Posted 13/07/2007 at 14:35:50

Bob,maybe you are as passionate as the next fan.Also, it’s not bile and hatred that obcsure my views on the club,it’s fear.the last euro jaunt we had, Remember that?And okay,we may have a better first 11,but a fucking wafer thin squad.Can you tell me if(god forbid)Arteta and AJ get injured?Who are the quality players who can come in and do their job? Could we rely on 2 young kids to get the goals we would need,even though they are great prospects it would be too much to ask.And Bob,my problem with the likes of you is that,even if it is constructive criticism that is aimed at Moyes or BK,you are all fucking up in arms.Telling the likes of Tony he must be a closet red and to fuck off and support someone else.He like you, has got every right to voice his concerns and opinions.And Paul, I am originally from liverpool,and I am the only blue in a family of shite.So I grew up with them winning everything and getting abuse, even as a kid I gave just as good as I got.I look at the team we have and think,great,this is our chance to really kick on,so one minute I’m on a high after last season,and whats going on now feels like someone has kicked the chair from under me,and the redshite can start again with their abuse of us.I know you can say ignore them,but when they are family it’s hard to do.

Dave Lynch
20 Posted 13/07/2007 at 14:52:31

Paul. You state we are going to kick the shit out of Wigan, Man City and Sunderland next season.
By my reckoning that’s 9 points.
What about the rest of the teams?
Will 9 points be enough? Get real mate. Wigan,maybe. But the other 2 are not going to be a cake walk.
Remember Wigan last season? Remember Man City? I do, by all means be optimistic but don’t slag people off for having an opinion on how the season will go, because that’s exactly what your’e doing in that stupid statement.
Everyone has strengthened beyond what we have and if Moyes remains true to form his tactics will be as predictable as they ever have been.
It is this that is worrying me more than any signings, because i believe he is looking for players to play his don’t lose at all cost style of football.
Which, whether you like it or not is very predictable and easy to negate.
That is why in my opinion we will struggle. He only knows one way to play and it’s predictable.

Steve Williams
21 Posted 13/07/2007 at 15:08:33

Well Brian thats your problem if you feel undermined by some boys from the pit. So its not been the transfer window so far we all fantasized about. As Michael says- ’get over it’ Noone is jumping for joy and noone is saying we’ll have all the other teams in our pocket, but is it really going to be a disaster next season. If all you guys know whats going to happen already- let us into the secret so we can all lay the bets. Noone in truth can predict what will happen and you cannot base your assumptions on the events of 2 years ago, although I do see how much easier it is to believe that will happen, rather than Everton maybe holding their own and being in a damn good postition to kick on the following season. Our priority should still be the league and progression in the Uefa cup would be a nice side issue. I seriously believe we are still a couple of years off seriously challenging in Europe and that a bit of progression each season of continually qualifying for European competition will no doubt set us up for a brighter future. The board have let both Moyes and us down so far that much is true but between Moyes, the team and us the fans, who do have some importance attached to the matches, we can level it out a bit. Yes we want success and we want it now but even with 4 or 5 quality signings in the close season, I would still be advocating the league as the important competition and seeing how far progression could be made in 1 or more cup competitions. It is the regular European competition that will attract the better players in the future, but the money to pay them also has to be earned. Testing the water in the UEFA Cup will help but as we all know 4 million is a drop in the ocean, its the Champions League and beyond that will be the acid test that we need to prepare for a few years ahead as we are still not established in the Top 6, let alone the Top 4-so reality check required, not of doom, but one of opportunties that will come albeit a lot slower if we don’t receive additional investment which we all crave as I am sure nonone really wants to predict our downfall.

Sean Boyd
22 Posted 14/07/2007 at 13:26:42

tony marsh. lov the way u argued that most of these players got us into the top 4.
therefore ur acceptin that Moyes isnt actually as bad as u first made out. after all that was a very poor side an he got them 4th.
if wer rele in crises id luv to know who ud hav as his replacement.
maybe alex ferguson, mourinho or wenger eh? an lets sign 6 or 7 players wit that £12m moyes has got to spend.
stick to champ manager mate an put ya red shirt away.

Bob Turner
23 Posted 14/07/2007 at 16:32:06

Brian, when did I tell Tony Marsh that he’s a closet red and that he should support another team? I merely suggested that he could try supporting the team, instead of prophesising doom and slagging off Moyes and Kenwright. Constructive criticism is fine, personal and libellous abuse is unacceptable and self-defeating.