ToffeeWeb - Season 2008-09

Simar Vivitar
1 Posted 27/09/2008 at 17:33:42

Following on the theme of most of the other posts, I don't recall seeing a derby that one-sided, I'm still in a state of shock and feel numb! I cannot believe professional people who are so highly paid and train all week cannot pass a football, it is beyond me.

Undoubtedly we have made strides in the last 5 years but what I saw today performance and ability-wise, I hope I never witness again. That was regression. The long ball when used so often by all the back four is not football. Why pay £15 million for a midfielder when the ball continually bypasses him?

If they are going to be our tactics, we should play 5 at the back and 5 upfront!! Losing to Liverpool is hard enough at the best of times but losing in that manner is soul-destroying.

Brian Waring
2 Posted 27/09/2008 at 17:39:28

I was wondering, does anyone think that the togetherness and spirit that the players used to show, has now gone this season?

Neil Patten
3 Posted 27/09/2008 at 17:53:00

Brian - Hit the nail on the head - yes! Who would have thought that the loss of two limited players like Stubbs and Carsley could have such a dramatic effect?

Steve Sweeney
4 Posted 27/09/2008 at 17:55:57

This is I think my worst time as an Evertonian. Even in the past dark days the team always a least put up a fight. Today they just capitulated.

I was ahsamed of my team today, to hoof the ball as far as possible and wait for the shite to attack is and was disgraceful. The players seem leaderless, I am afraid, Davey boy it's time to either sign of go and personally I think you already know its time to go. So as the saying goes, close the door on the way out.

Things are going to get worse if he stays. He has lost the plot. This on paper is not that bad a team but today it was gutless, they seemed to be resigned to defeat.On this showing we will be in he bottom 4 and fighting relegation before we know it.

Andy Morden
5 Posted 27/09/2008 at 18:11:13

I really think that some of the initiative was given to Liverpool by our line-up. Hibbert at right-back. Neville in Midfield. 5 in the middle, the yak alone up front. Moyes set us up fearfully. He was scared of what Liverpool would do. We lined up like we were the away team and wanted Liverpool to come on to us.

In the first half especially we had good possession by no-one in the box apart from the Yak. What kind of boost does that give to the opposition knowing that we are set up to contain them and sneak one on the break? When we got the ball on the ground we looked capable, but far too often we played safety first hoof ball. What happened to the buzzing passing team of last year (in patches)?

1) Confidence was drained after the mid season collapse around the Afcon nations / injury crisis

2) Moyes got above himself and thought that rather than using the route of getting rough diamonds in on the cheap and working with them we need expensive quality to compete ? rightly or wrongly his demeanour and enthusiasm changed, thus affecting his view of his players capabilities resorting in (even more than usual) defensive tactics, and secondly a crisis of confidence in his playing staff.

Something is clearly not right...

Mark Williams
6 Posted 27/09/2008 at 18:19:21

Dithering Dave has been great for us but I think he has taken us as far as he can!!! To stick with Neville and Osman week-in, week-out does me head in.... We were given a football lesson today in teamwork and balls!!!!

Thanks for your time Moyes but enough is enough.... haven't even seen a smile from him for fucking months too...........

Stuart Mitchell
7 Posted 27/09/2008 at 18:23:34

I still cannot believe we forked out £15m on Fellaini, I think 1.5m would be steep for him.

A total shambles, and another dodgy ref did not help!

Brian Waring
8 Posted 27/09/2008 at 18:23:49

Would anybody bet against the starting line up today, being the same starting line up on Thursday? I just hope Moyes grows a pair of balls, and goes 4-4-2, with the Yak and Saha up top, and we just go for it.

Tommy Coleman
9 Posted 27/09/2008 at 18:38:15

Probably the worst derby performance I have ever seen.

I knew Moyes would not change anything at half time when it was so obvious that ’4-5-1 hoof ball to a single striker’ wasn’t working.

Why does he never change tactics to try and win a game ? He only changes to try and stop losing.

It’s beggining to look like the end of Moyes for me. His attitude of late reminds me of the last days of Walter Smith.

Relegation battle it is. Now that’s progress.

Dave Gouveia
10 Posted 27/09/2008 at 18:41:25

Terrible

Andy Crooks
11 Posted 27/09/2008 at 18:42:10

Brian, David Moyes is incapable of growing balls. He?s a Championship manager way out of his depth. Mick, no-one wants to be a doom monger, but I doubt that even Richard Dodds can defend the utter shite that is being served up at Goodison Park.
Tony Marsh, get your head out of the gas oven and say something.

Seamus McCrudden
12 Posted 27/09/2008 at 18:42:25

Mick Johnson are you having a laugh? Naysayers? That Everton performance was worse than a kids' Sunday league match, it was an absolute disgrace and the blame lies with the manager. His tactics were pathetic, it was back to the Walter hoof Smith days. What in the name of god is the point of playing the long ball when you have only one striker up front?

And I'm sure I'm not the only one who thought the Yak's diving was pathetic, he's a strong guy and if he stayed on his feet he might have scored. Where are Lescott's marauding runs up the wing? He looked afraid, dejected and totally lacking in any confidence whatsoever, as did the whole team when we conceded.

And just what the hell was Osman playing at? He was awful. When he's good, he's good but when he's bad, he's Division 2 material. I really fear for the team as the lack of confidence that we are showing is consuming the team spirit, god knows where our season will end up?

Brian Waring
13 Posted 27/09/2008 at 18:51:43

Andy, you're wrong mate. Doddy has actually defended it on another thread, and has actually said that by Thursday there will be good news coming from Goodison, because Moyes will have signed (haven?t we heard that somewhere before?) his contract after ironing out a few small issues.

Thomas Christensen
14 Posted 27/09/2008 at 18:50:02

We were that shit it should have been more than 2-0.

We didn?t really attack Liverpool once, Yak was diving everywhere, Fellaini was passing backwards, Arteta wasting set pieces, Howard looking like and Osman and Cahill doing their best to lose possesion. In the 91st minute there was a close up of Reina and Andy Gray said "He has not had to make a save in 90mins football at Goodison Park." I?d watched the game but hadn?t realised we were that bad, but we were not a match for Liverpool.

I like Moyes, but I do think he has got a lot of work to do this season.

Tommy Gibbons
15 Posted 27/09/2008 at 19:21:32

The tell-tale sign for me was after the match, when people were talking about Moyes going, nobody was arsed...

In my mind he?s got a Metallist moment coming up in Liege... If he pulls the result out the bag, it?ll be onward and upward. If he doesn?t, he?s on his way...

Gary Rimmer
16 Posted 27/09/2008 at 19:21:05

We're going through a tough patch, now is not the time to panic. We all know we should've got players in quicker etc but we can not will it to implode. The over-the-top reactions are laughable. It will get sorted. The only way we can really improve is with massive investment and unless people can name names who?s putting the money in it?s hot air. Support the team, support the club, we have moved forward constantly under Bill and Moyes. We will get through this.

Brian Egan
17 Posted 27/09/2008 at 19:30:36

Even if we do get massive investment would you trust Moyes to spend any large sums of money? His better signings have been for £2-3mil, Atreta, Cahill. When he has had money he has wasted it.
Look at his big money signings, Johnson £8.5m, Beattie £6m, Kroldrup £5m, Baines £6.5m, Fellaini £15m. Theres only Yakubu who has been a success out of the big money buys.
He’s a bargain basement manager who has no track record of successfully spending big money.

Brian Waring
18 Posted 27/09/2008 at 19:30:41

Gary, You say "the over the top reactions are laughable". 0Have you looked at the posts today mate? A lot of the lads who back Moyes to the hilt, are even questioning his tactics and negativity this season. Are you happy setting up at home for a draw, playing hoofball? We never had one shot on target today, and the redshite never even got out of second gear, they probalby won?t have a more easier game this season.

Dave Wilson
19 Posted 27/09/2008 at 19:38:03

Already booked the hotels and travel for the game in Belgium, so fuck all else for it. Arm yourselves with plenty of booze boys and let's have a ball. "There may be trouble ahead" but while there's moonlight and music . . . . .

Bilbo Baggins
20 Posted 27/09/2008 at 20:34:19

Oh shit, out of the UEFA cup, get beat by Newcastle and poor David Moyes will be getting grief. Please don't forget about that spinless bastard Kenwright ? he is as much to blame.

Chris Jones
21 Posted 27/09/2008 at 20:38:04

Just when you thought it couldn’t get any worse ESPN Classic are showing the ’Gary McAllister’ derby at 9.20 tonight.

Someone upstairs is taking the piss!

Bilbo Baggins
22 Posted 27/09/2008 at 20:39:38

Too late, Chris, Wyness was allowed to do that for 4 years

Andy Crooks
23 Posted 27/09/2008 at 21:19:39

Good point, Bilbo Baggins. David Moyes and his dour spiritless tactics certainly seems to have taken the spotlight off Bill Kenwright. Kenwright is unfit to be chairman. Moyes lost heart and unfortunately heart is about as much as he ever had.

Alan Clarke
24 Posted 27/09/2008 at 21:27:54

And to think some of the speculation about Moyes not signing his contract is because he thinks he’s out grown us and wants to leave to a bigger club!

Fuck off to Celtic Moyes, I’m sure you’re one dimensional tactics will work wonders against the likes of Queen of the South.

Aodhan O'Faolain
25 Posted 27/09/2008 at 21:25:57

It has been a dreadful season, and for the first time in my life I say thank god for Spurs and Newcastle.

If we don't beat thr cockney run Geodies outfit next game at home then staying up will be the best that can be achieved.

Looks like that our year will be defined against Standard Liege next Thursday.

Peter Fearon
26 Posted 27/09/2008 at 21:32:57

After being firmly against moving to Kirkby from Day One, I?m beginning to think I?m wrong and moving out of Liverpool is the best thing we can do. Certainly, we have given up all pretense of competing on equal terms with our neighbors. Perhaps being the #1 Premier League team in Kirkby is the way to go.

It would be the ultimate vindication of the Walter Smith theory: that it?s not the team?s performances but the fans expectations that are the problem. My own expectations have been reduced to zero by the start to the season and David Moyes?s nonchalent and passive response to it.

Brian Egan
27 Posted 27/09/2008 at 22:00:12

Ian Snodin at a legends night, what a joke! Who’s at the next one Brett Angell and John Ebbrell.

Andy Crossen
28 Posted 27/09/2008 at 21:35:58

Guy Rimmr said "We all know we should of got players in quicker etc but we can not will it to implode. The over the top reactions are laughable. It will get sorted." The point I want to make is regardless of all the background shit Moyes doesn’t seem to make the best of what he has. The following comments are based on a 4 - 4 - 2 line up.

Saha: Having got him he should start every game that he is fit for (with Yakubu).

Arteta: No pace has to start in the middle or not at. all.

Osman: See Arteta (and only one plays - not both).

Castillo: Appears to be a better bet than Felliani - starts and Felliani goes to the Reserves to get fit - which he does not appear to be. Or I hope that’s the reason he’s as slow as he is.

Jags - Captain - limited but never stops trying - remind you of anyone or two recent departees? He might also get the confidence to start bullying the likes of Yobo and Lescott and get them to pull their fingers out.

Wide players: The big problem for me but I would take who ever plays there from the Reserves and give them runs in the side. Risky but it can’t be worse than what’s going on now. Peanuts when he’s back.

Neville: If not captain - bench if he’s lucky.

Hibbert : Limited but has to be the right back for now at least.>

Baines or the Valente: Left back for now.

Cahill: A luxury player to me. A bit of a talisman I know and does score important goals but in a 4 - 4 -2 liine up he has no place. Bench to come on when required.

I left a few positions out but these are the changes I’d like to see now that don’t involve spending any money which I know is not actually possible right now. Might bruise a few egos but so what.

Writing from NZ so I know I’ve only seen a couple of TV games and live gives a different perspective but clearly live or on TV we’re shit right now.

Arthur Jones
29 Posted 27/09/2008 at 22:07:47

Yeah Brian, but Snods?d be great in our team now, and he has a league winners medal AND he pissed Daglish off when he signed for us instead of them. Can you see anyone doing that nowdays?

But poor Brett and Stewie Barlow took some stick off those there!!!

Brian Egan
30 Posted 27/09/2008 at 22:16:06

Arthur, I was never Snodins biggest fan, in fact I thought he was garbage. He couldn’t hack it in midfield so ended up at right back but was replaced by Neil McDonald (now that says it all).
He may have a league winners medal but then again Kevin Langley and Neil Adams were in that squad and they got them.
I take your point though that we need some fight in the team.

Mick Wrende
31 Posted 27/09/2008 at 22:48:19

At least no-one can come on here now and say we don't want to go back to the days of Walter Smith or Mike Walker or whoever. That was the worst and most gutless performance I have ever seen from any Everton side in nearly 50 years of watching. Nothing under Smith ever came close to that rubbish

Tony Williams
32 Posted 27/09/2008 at 22:50:59

"Would anybody bet against the starting line up today, being the same starting line up on Thursday? I just hope Moyes grows a pair of balls, and goes 442, with the Yak and Saha up top, and we just go for it"

Brian, I’ll take that bet....Felliani won’t be playing

Gerry Rutter
33 Posted 27/09/2008 at 22:58:05

I?m sick to death of getting up in the middle of the night down here in Aussie to watch this crap. After nearly fifty years my patience is just about exhausted. Where have all the players with any ticker gone? Get the likes of Rodwell, Baxter and Vaughan on the pitch. It worked for Sir Alex and we might as well give it a try. Did anybody from Everton watch Fellaini play before we bought him?

Jamie Carroll
34 Posted 27/09/2008 at 23:15:11

By putting Neville back into midfield and restoring Hibbert to right back, show?s that Moyes has no clue on how to progress the midfield. A defender in midfield. Against Liverpool. Oh dear...

ps: May I be the first of many to congratulate Gerrard on his "refereeing" display to-day with his assistant (Riley).

Brian Waring
35 Posted 27/09/2008 at 23:38:12

Tony, all bets are off! Forgot about Fellaini.

Andy Crooks
36 Posted 27/09/2008 at 23:49:40

Andy, you may be watching from afar but you?re spot on.

Peter Fearon
37 Posted 28/09/2008 at 01:41:37

Mick Wrende - I’ve been watching about as long as you and I have to say, I did see Walter Smith’s Everton play as bad as that plenty of times. Not that that’s any comfort. For the first time I’m losing confidence that Moyes can take us any further. His signings just aren’t paying off. He isn’t using Saha, Castillo seems lost, Fellaini is a mystery. Baines is MIA. I’ve never liked Neville. Yakubu is ineffective alone. It’s a mess, but he doesn’t seem to realize it. He’s even making Walter Smith noises.

Rob Hamilton
38 Posted 28/09/2008 at 02:10:11

If Fellaini had slotted the ball home when he should have, he’d be a hero, and the outcome may have been very different. What a horrible day it turned out to be.

Andy Crossen
39 Posted 28/09/2008 at 04:14:19

Cheers Andy.

I have just read a post on another thread suggesting Cahill or Yobo as captain. These are strange suggestions I think. Cahill is injury prone and I believe would struggle to get into a 4 - 4 - 2 linup, especially against good sides when everyone is available and he doesn’t offer much besides his goals to inspire the other players (tackling passing for instance). Yobo is too quiet and I’d have thought as the senior player in central defence and seemingly the constant in that position (Jags and Lescott playing at least sometime in other positions) he’d be talking alot any way. I know he captains Nigeria and I can’t really figure that out. Maybe he’s more vocal in his first language. Anyway for Everton I don’t think either are the answer although I think I would prefer either to Neville.

Craig Taylor
40 Posted 28/09/2008 at 06:53:23

Moysey has come out and said he thought we had a foot hold in the game!! What fucking game was he watching, because it wasnt the shower of shite in blue that I and countless other Evertonians was watching. Sort it out Moysey or piss off now. And if we play 4-5-1 against Liege midweek knowing we HAVE to win then it will prove Moyes will never learn or he has his head up his own arse!

Russell Buckley
41 Posted 28/09/2008 at 07:01:12

I?m with Gerry I?m getting sick of watching my side in the wee hours of the morning not being able to string two passes together. The side has no confidence and our defensive hoofball tactics are a disgrace. Moyes has given the club back some stability in the last 5 years but not much else. The idea of offering him £3.5 million per year is a joke.

Vinny Bird
42 Posted 28/09/2008 at 09:03:15

Sorry to say it, boys and girls, Moyes has lost the dressing room. After the game at Blackburn, he give the team a bollocking and slamed the door and made his own way home, then the players didn't even know if they were in for training the following day.

The man wants to stop feeling sorry for himself and pick his sorry arse up and do something about it. The contract saga is a disgrace, if that was a player holding the club to ransome, then we would be saying get shut!

Just a point on Old Mother Riley yesterday... does anybody think the Ashley Cole incident last season, when so much was made of it, had any effect on his decision to send Cahill off? I do.....

Kevin Fitzsimons
43 Posted 28/09/2008 at 09:42:01

I am sure I am not the only one who has noticed that a striker off form will always score his comeback goal against Everton, a team without a win will end that streak against Everton etc etc.... Next league game NEWCASTLE..... put your mortgage on the barcodes....
Can a blue get anymore depressed????

Sid George
44 Posted 28/09/2008 at 12:30:37

I believe that the only mistake Moyes can be accused of is not signing his new contract. Once this is done (this week by all accounts) the lads will know where they stand and get on with the job in hand. I do know that if ever he left there would be a queue of clubs round the block for his services and our club would be fucked forever.

Jack Simmonite
45 Posted 28/09/2008 at 00:27:23

Everton reverted to the old 4-1-4-1 system that got us into the 4th spot so many years ago. Despite Everton's terrible defensive form and poor defending in the start of this season, this is a derby and the form book goes out of the window, especially at home! You do not have a lone striker at home, never mind in a mersyside derby!!!

Personally I think Moyes was scared today and went into the game determined to defend the 0 - 0 and the point. This was a very poor Liverpool side. Despite the defensive negativity I think Felaini showed some great potential. But does anybody else believe Hibbert isn't cut out for the Premier League? I wouldn't put him in a Championship side, never mind a Club that competes in Europe.

I'm sure we are all hurt by the defeat but the positives? When Saha came on we had another outlet and started to take the game to Liverpool, until Mike (egotistical Maniac) Riley decieded to send Cahill off .

Dick Fearon
46 Posted 28/09/2008 at 01:49:16

There was outrage when Benitez said Everton were typical of all small clubs who go to Anfield and play for a draw. This time the game was at Goodison yet Moyes team selection and tactics showed he (not us) was scared shitless of our 'big' neighbours.

Evertonians not only on Merseyside but world over are cringing in shame at what took place. It makes me wonder how much smaller can we get? Long before the goals came, Moyes seemed totally unaware that plan A was crumbling. As usual he waited and waited until the situation was so desperate that changes were forced upon him.

Even then with hope all but gone his defensive minded caution would not allow him to go for broke by adding Vaughan to the strike force. To quote an old saying, Lord give Moyes the wisdom to make the changes that need changing and not when its too bloody late.

Ste Kenny
47 Posted 28/09/2008 at 15:29:56

Sid

Are you joking mate? Everton Football Club would be fucked forever if a half-decent manager left us?

I think the queue to manage us would be round the block because our club has got good players, they just need someone to show a bit of faith in them and tell them to pass the fuckin ball.

Dave Williams
48 Posted 28/09/2008 at 16:34:36

I wish I had seen Moyes bollock the team at Blackburn because I am looking for some real passion from him and all I see is a man feeling sorry for himself. Someone please give us some pride back in our team.

Anthony Hughes
49 Posted 28/09/2008 at 18:42:48

Sid George, you taking the piss? Who exactly are the queue of clubs who would snap dm up if he left? The big 4? City, Villa or maybe you think the European giants Real Madrid or Barcelona will beat a path to his door? Keep taking the pills, Sid.