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“Those who fail to learn...”

By Kevin Sparke :  05/08/2009 :  Comments (64) :
"Those who fail to learn the lessons that history teaches are condemned to repeat its mistakes"

Yet again, comrades, we are on the brink of the new season and the sound of Bill’s wallet being opened to provide for a couple of much needed signings has been noticeable by its complete absence.

Yet again, the proverbial blind man on a galloping horse can see that we need a right back, some genuine steely class in midfield to compliment our well documented and exploited weakness in this area… and what has been the response from our true blue chairman?.... nothing; nada; zilch… bugger all.

Yet again, our rivals — now joined by the disgustingly classless but filthy rich Manchester City — have strengthened in depth, whilst we’ve done nothing... absolutely nothing to build upon our success in the middle and latter part of last season.

Yet again, Everton are going to be starting our Champions League placing quest hamstrung by a patched-up side and any signings we do make (at five minutes to midnight on the last day of the window) will be strangers to their team-mates and will not have the luxury of games to ‘bed in’. It’s like asking a marathon runner to hop for the first ten miles and then expect him to make up the deficit as the rest of the field vanish over the horizon.

But this pre-season has been worse; one of my fears about Everton becoming moderately successful was that the vultures of the Premier League elite would start circling and pick out our star performers with offers they can’t refuse. Make no mistake about it; if Arteta and Jagielka had have not had career threatening injuries, their signatures would have been sought by the rich and powerful.

We’re going to be losing one of the stalwarts of our much lauded defence in Lescott and (by the looks of things) replacing him with a immobile colossus who, despite his height, cannot head a ball and has the distribution skills of a Blackpool beach donkey.

(Senderos... you cannot be fucking serious, Davey Moyes! You might as well put a post up just outside the area with a sign saying “Please turn me over and leave me for dead”!!! — Senderos is shite – I cannot believe the words Everton and Senderos are in the same sentence, never mind the same football club. AC Milan? ... on what I’ve seen of him he’d struggle getting a game for AC Delco.)

However, Moyes has proved me wrong before (Phil Neville) — and I hope he does so again; but I really can't see what he can see this time.

So, the upshot is we're going to be almost exactly where we were at the start of last season... and any progress we’ve made on the field will be nullified by stagnancy off it.

I’ve one heartfelt plea to Bill Kenwright:- forget the idiocy of moving to Kirkby and put some of that cash you must have squirreled away to team building — before you become the chairman who oversees Everton’s decline into obscurity. Support your man, Bill... or sooner or later he is going to walk...

And who could blame him?

Reader Comments

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Ciarán McGlone
1   Posted 05/08/2009 at 11:17:49

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For me that’s what will happen...Moyes is sometimes a slow learner...but he will eventually realise that his loyalty to Bill is misplaced and that he could do a hell of a lot better at another club that would furnish him with the cash he deserves..

However I have to disagree with you on two points Kevin..

Firstly, Senderos. When he first came to the premiership he was a very good player...after a couple of howlers he was binned by Arsenal. Now we have three central defenders who are also prone to howlers...and at least two of them have the distribution of a ’blackpool beach donkey’ my opinion, that would be our most rated defender...Jags. I think Senderos could be a very astute signing if Davey can get the best out of him.

Secondly, you seem to be annoyed that Kenwright has said ’nothing; nada; zilch… bugger all’ - personally I’m happy with him keeping his mouth shut, because whenever he opens it nothing but bullshit comes out..

But I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment of the article..we have learnt nothing from whats went before - bad management? forced hand? tied hands?

No matter what the reason - it’s bad news for the coming season.
Marc Williams
2   Posted 05/08/2009 at 11:19:15

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Kevin, I completely agree with you on this. If we fail to show some true ambition now then we will have reached our ’high water mark’ & I also fear that Joleon will be the first of many, to seek real chance of success elsewhere.
Kenright MUST prove to fans & the playing staff that Everton can continue to build & push on. Otherwise the likes of Jag’s, Yak, peanuts, Cahill & Mikky will soon be on their way. I’d be very worried about the latter as one of the main reasons he’s been happy on Merseyside has been that his mate Alonso is accrss the park. With him now moving to Real Madrid & no quality midfield signings, to help him out, it could be the last straw for Arteta.
Even Cahill was saying that we need to strengthen, effectivly saying : I have to beleive we get success at Everton or what’s the point in being here.
If we don’t improve the squad then I can’t see how they can beleive we can progress.
Dave Randles
3   Posted 05/08/2009 at 11:42:29

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Well put Kevin.

I posted on another thread a few days ago about something similar. Whatever the reasons are for the deafening silence relating to our lack of incoming transfer activity - we are in pretty much the same situation as we were this time last year, save for the fact that one of our best players wasn’t about to leave!

I believe that the reason (or if not THE reason, certainly one of them) DM stalled on signing his contract last year was because of the lack of support he received from the board and the fact that he was hamstrung in relation to new signings until the eleventh hour of the transfer window.

WTF has changed this time? Not so much that I can see. We are already numbers down on last season through players leaving, (remember the mantra - quality not quantity!) so this situation certainly aint healthy and I am certain it won’t be doing much in the way of persuading DM that he made the right choice in signing that deal.

Mike Oates
4   Posted 05/08/2009 at 11:47:23

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Kevin I do agree with a lot you say but I also believe that Kenwright has given Moyes to spend, but unfortunately or naively whatever you believe ,Moyes puts a price and salary he is willing to go to for any target and wont budge above it , until the August 31st arrives and he is forced to move.

I’m absolutely sure in the cases of Naughton and Delph we had sufficient monies available but were outbid by Spurs/Aston Villa and we wouldn’t meet the asking price or salary required . Moyes has to learn that he cannot stick his head in the sand whilst our competitors make merry.

My last point is my major worry , our better players are aware, that we by the sound of it, are falling way behind in the salary stakes for a Top 6-7 club.I totally agree any loss of one of our Top performers ie Lescott will lead to a possible walk out by all and sundry. A £25k/wk wage rise by our Top 12 lads will lead to an extra £16m a year , and bang goes Moyes’s transfer kitty.

Money talks and unfortunately whatever we hope for in loyalty , comaradship, team bonding etc it has a limited lifetime and I feel that we are close to the edge, and I’m sensing the likes of Lescott, Pinnear, Yakubu, Cahill and Arteta also realise it.

Dan Brierley
5   Posted 05/08/2009 at 11:49:51

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I think Bill has publicly stated that EFC are for sale. And also stated he has taken us as far as he can go. I guess this means that any further spending would put the club into financial difficulties. Debt levels increased last season, as the majority of our first team are tied into long term contracts on good money now. It does appear that he has taken us right to the edge of the financial envelope that our club can afford.

I am as frustrated as you, I also feel we are getting left behind. But the reality of the situation is that there is not pots of money lying around. You only have to look at Portsmouth to see what happens when a club spends beyond its means. Its not rocket science to work out what must happen when your expenditure becomes more than your revenue.
Neil Pearse
6   Posted 05/08/2009 at 12:13:58

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Kevin - and others - why on earth is the problem of not spending more money on new players always stated as ’not showing ambition’?? As if, if only were a ’a bit more ambitious’, we might double Lescott’s wages and go out and buy Ashley Young.

This is nonsensical. WE ARE POOR. If we had more money, we would spend more. It is clear already that we spend as much - or somewhat more - than we have. That’s where all the debt comes from that you all hate so much (and the ’selling off our assets’ that you also have a problem with, and indeed the cadging off his mates like Philip Green).

We are quite as ambitous as we can be given our poverty.

I think Kenwright needs to go so that we can get a richer owner with more money. But that’s not because he (or Moyes) isn’t ambitious for the club. He’s just too poor for it in today’s world. Ambition simply doesn’t come into it.
Alan Clarke
7   Posted 05/08/2009 at 12:18:00

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It’s always difficult to call the transfer situation becuase we’re not on the board and we lack the full knowledge of Everton’s finances and the ins and outs of how a transfer is paid for. One thing I’m reassured about this year is Moyes isn’t moaning in the same way as last summer. He has on occassion before made obvious comments about his frustration at lack of funds in press conferences but he hasn’t this year.

The way I see it is Moyes has a few main targets he wants e.g. Moutinho last year. He’s not willing to spend any other money until he has his target because he doesn’t know how much he’ll have left. This depends on the amount he’s had to fork out for his main target. Until Moyes brings in his main target(s), he’s looking at Bosmans and loans. I suspect there are some ongoing negotiations for players and some money in the coffers for them but until Moyes gets his man the rest won’t follow.

He would obviously like to bring his target(s) in ASAP but because of the SKY money clearing + the ridiculous amount clubs want for their players (especially this summer), Moyes has to wait until late on in the transfer window to try and bring the price down. The risk with this is, as we saw last summer, if the deal falls through (like in Moutinho’s case) we’re panic buying the day before the window shuts and we’re suddenly really light on numbers.

The transfer market now is definitely a sellers market, just look at the way we’ve valued Lescott at £30 million. Because Everton aren’t flush with cash they have to wait to get the best deal so as not to be held to ransom by the selling club. The longer the trasnfer window goes on, the more likely the selling club are to drop their price. If by chance we could meet the valuation the selling club is asking for early on we’d buy early on. The problem we have is this summer’s market is ridiculous. Becuase of the credit crunch, I think Moyes and Elstone were expecting some normality going into the summer judging by the post-season comments from both of them but due to City and Real’s spending, it’s screwing clubs like us over.

That’s my take on it and although I’m becoming more and more frustrated, because Moyes seems quite calm still, I am trying to remain calm too.
David Flynn
8   Posted 05/08/2009 at 12:53:43

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Whilst I agree it’s a shame we haven’t signed players for the areas we need, I wouldn’t say that all of our rivals have strengthened greatly. Villa are woefully short and have lost their best defender and midfielder, Spurs haven’t really done much, same with Liverpool (Glen Johnson and not much else), United to an extent, Arsenal and Chelsea. There just hasn’t been much movement compared to previous years except for City.
Michael Brien
9   Posted 05/08/2009 at 12:40:40

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Kevin - I can understand the frustration at the lack of activity but I feel I have to disagree with the general tone of your article.
1) Man United,Arsenal and our dear neighbours have made more headlines this summer for who they have SOLD rather than who they have bought. I estimate that Man United have spent about 25% of what they received for Ronaldo. Arsenal have so far signed a defender but sold 2 of their main players to Man City. Liverpool look very likely to be selling Alonso - a key player - to Real Madrid.
2) Aston Villa - our main rivals for 5th in the last couple of seasons have sold Gareth Barry to Man City. Yes they have bought Delph from Leeds but at a price - apparently it could rise to £8M. I expect that if we had signed him there would have been those who doubted the wisdom of paying so much for a player from League One.
3) The common denominator in much of 1& 2 is of course Man City - they seem to be the most active club in the transfer market at the moment. I wonder why ?
4) As to the problems we appear to encounter in signing players - well it’s always plain sailing for every other club isn’t it ? Er.......I think not. Bent’s move to Sunderland has taken longer than some peace treaties to sort out. And wasn’t Gareth Barry supposed to be on his way to Anfield ?
5) As regards your rubbishing of Senderos ,well Kevin how about this lesson from History - our busiest summer in the transfer market that I can recall was back in 1981leading up to the start of the 1981-82 season. New manager Howard Kendall brought in 7 new players including a goalkeeper from Bury, who I doubt whether many of us had heard of. He turned out to be a rather significant signing did Neville Southall. The best deals are not always the ones that make the biggest headlines in the national papers/media.
Phil Welsby
10   Posted 05/08/2009 at 12:56:38

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Took the words right out of my mouth, David Flynn. This summer, it has only really been City who have strengthened - certainly on paper Villa have worsened rather than strengthened, same for Arsenal & United. Liverpool are selling a class midfielder and have so far only brought in a right back. Spurs have added a 17th full back and an over-rated striker. Wouldn’t call any of that "strengthened in depth".

Kevin Sparke
11   Posted 05/08/2009 at 13:06:07

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Not so Phil and Michael - if you take the five teams who I believe will be our rivals for fifth spot - let alone the much covetted fourth

Aston Villa - Fabain Delph; Stuart Downing
Spurs; Crouch Naughton, Walker
West Ham; Llunga; Kurucz; Jiminez; Daprela
Man City... well, who have they not signed?

Re Southall - he was an unknown quantity; wheras the more I see of Senderos the more unconvinced I am about him (and I must have seen him play about 30 times)... consider this fact Arsenal seem to attack 70% of the time during a game - we seem defend for about the same percentage - Senderos is going to have a hell of a lot of work to do - I can’t remember watching him and not seeing him turned a couple of times a game - and he ball watches.
Sayaing that... if anyone can turn him into a world class defender Davey Moyes can
Prabhat Mukherjea
12   Posted 05/08/2009 at 13:18:50

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I am quite speechless. I fail to appreciate how anyone can possibly blame the club for selling star players to vultures when they have been screaming from the rooftops for the past one month that they are NOT FOR SALE and if media reports are any indication, WILL NOT SELL LESCOTT, transfer request or no.

If you feel the need to criticize us for letting stars go, wait till he leaves (since you guys are so sure he will). It’s daft to
A) Say the club must at all cost hang on to star players and then B) Criticize it when it doesn’t buy new players, when it could have done so by selling stars, just because you THINK the star player will go. I am personally sure Lescott will stay because City won’t touch 30 M
Ciarán McGlone
13   Posted 05/08/2009 at 13:22:13

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Neil Pearse,

Nobody was refering to Moyes as not being ambitious...I think he was quite obviously refering to Kenwright...and he’s right - and it can be proven.
Rob Heib
14   Posted 05/08/2009 at 13:33:44

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[["Those who fail to learn the lessons that history teaches are condemned to repeat its mistakes" ]]


So what was the general fan consensus of our chances last summer?

Or the summer after selling Rooney?

Aren’t Spurs and Newcastle going to overtake us every year? Okay ... probably not Newcastle this year.

"Those who fail to learn the lessons that history teaches are condemned to repeat its mistakes."

Hopefully writing off our chances (just as everyone seems to do every summer) will prove to be another in a long line of mistakes from the fans here (who seem to be in a competition with Kenwright over who can be the most wrong about things).
Michael Brien
15   Posted 05/08/2009 at 13:23:18

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Kevin - Downing is currently injured and not likely to play until November. Delph is 18 and yes may well be a great prospect but £8M ? Spurs - may have brought in players but they will also be selling some. And isn’t that the club who sold Defoe and Keane and then bought back both players less than a year later ??? Unknown quantities - how about Joseph Yobo and Tim Cahill ? They turned out to be pretty good signings didn’t they.
I seem to recall the criticisms of the Jagielka signing - a player from a relegated club !!!! He’s not done too badly has he ?
Back in March 1976 I was on Teaching Practice at St Bonaventure’s in Aintree. One of the teachers looked at the back page of the Daily Post and remarked " I see Bingham’s doing his team building with players from Luton". It was a comment of course about our signing Andy King for £35,000 I think it was - hardly headline grabbing stuff. I expect the teacher in question( a Red)was laughing on the other side of his face in Oct ’78 !!!
As I said before - it’s not always the headline making signings that prove to be the best. I have to agree with Arsene Wenger when he said " fans in England think everything can be solved with signings"
Gary Creaney
16   Posted 05/08/2009 at 13:35:32

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Kevin Sparke are you for real with that last post?

Aston Villa - Have lost Barry and Laursen
Spurs; Walker returned back on loan
West Ham; Llunga was already there, who the fuck are the other 3
Fulham; again - who the fuck?

Its been a shitty summer for sure just like last but it may quickly turn for example Sky Sports News on tv says we are in new talks with Rasmus Elm
Neil Pearse
17   Posted 05/08/2009 at 13:54:11

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Okay, Ciaran, prove it. That Kenwright has been unambitious. Not of course that he has been poor.
Dave Randles
18   Posted 05/08/2009 at 14:00:05

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Michael Brien.


All of the sides you mention have bigger squads than us anyway. We are down on numbers already from last season, so isn’t the ’well no one else is buying’ argument a non-starter?
Kevin Sparke
19   Posted 05/08/2009 at 13:54:45

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Point taken about ’unknown quantities’ Michael - but Senderos is a known quantity... and he’s never impressed me at all when I’ve watched him... as I said; I hope Davey is right and I’m wrong... he’s manager of Everton after all and I’m merely an amateur hack... but to me Senderos makes Ian Marshall look an elegant cultured defender (Remember him?)

Another thing - do any of you still have any faith that Hibbert will ever make a decent Right Back? - IMHO we need an urgent replacement; as after the Cup Final whatever confidence the lad was developing has evaporated - same goes for his team mates about confidence in him. The natural move is to play Neville - and further weaken our already fragile midfield.

We urgently need a Right Back and a solid but comfortable in possession midfield player - this is not extravagance it is absolute necessity.

Moyes has worked wonders with a rag tag collection of stand ins and bit players due to our horrendous injury record - the wheels will come off the ’carry on regardless’ bandwagon eventually.

BTW - I’m normally an optimist - but I see the same conditions we started last season happening again - remember what happened then?

It cost us a shot at a Champions League place
Robert Davis
20   Posted 05/08/2009 at 14:10:21

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The players we lost during the summer made less than 20 apperiences.IMHO we need 4 decent prem players to boost our squad.We also have Rodwell and Gosling who will play more this year
Ciarán McGlone
21   Posted 05/08/2009 at 14:17:08

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’Okay, Ciaran, prove it. That Kenwright has been unambitious. Not of course that he has been poor.’

No problem...Kenwright bought this club knowing he had no money. In fact he’s stated that the club has been up for sale since that day...

At that time - financing teams with large sums was already a pre-requisite for getting near the league title...Now with this in mind, how exactly can anyone who buys a team with absolutely no money to put into developing that team be considered to have ambition? He certainly couldn’t have expected to be competing for the league or getting anywhere near it..could he?

I think that succintly proves that Kenwright had no actual ambition for this club...other than wishing on a lucky star.
Richard Dodd
22   Posted 05/08/2009 at 14:48:06

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Davey has said repeatedly that he has no intention of selling ANYBODY-and that includes Joleon Lescott> Believe him!
Davey has said repeatedly that there will be no really big signing this year-only fringe players for cover.believe him.
You have not been lied to-our manager and chairman are as open with fans as any in the Prem.
Dan Brierley
23   Posted 05/08/2009 at 14:38:22

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So he has took the team from last day wins to keep in the Premiership, to european football and a cup final without ambition?

Breaking transfer records for 3 seasons in a row is not showing ambition?

I dont now where you get that Bill’s ambition was to win the Premiership. Maybe that was his dream, but not realistic ambition. Given what he had when he took over, to where we are now, I really think he has exceeded expectation given the amount of money we have had to work with.
Ciarán McGlone
24   Posted 05/08/2009 at 14:54:59

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You can confuse Moyes’ achievements with Kenwright’s all you want....I’ve outlined the logic that someone who buys a team without any intention of investing in that team - ultimately has no ambition.

P.S Surely all teams aspire to win things? Or have I got football completely wrong?
Dan Brierley
25   Posted 05/08/2009 at 14:57:32

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Moyes did it all by himself? He appointed himself, and financed and brokered each deal?

What a load of shite. Moyes HIMSELF has stated many times about his relationship with the chairman, and how they share the same ambitions.

You are living in a perfect world scenario, where the team you support should be able to win the title, regardless of the fact that the current champions revenue is ridiculously higher than ours. It seems you have no understanding of what modern football has become. Your logic seems to be ’unless you can fund a team to win the league, then you shouldn’t even bother.’

If you want to point blame about why we are so far behind, you might want to look at something that happened in the eighties, that took away the possibility of us competing in Europe and kicking on as Champions of England.
Ciarán McGlone
26   Posted 05/08/2009 at 15:15:21

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As I can conflate Moyes’ achievements with Kenwrights all you want - you’ll not be the first and you’ll certainly not be the last.

As for your suggestion that I ’have no understanding of what modern football has become’...Do me a favour Dan will you..You’re the one who’s propagating the suggestion that a self-confessed pauper who has no intention of investing in a team - can actually be ambitious.

And while harping on about my ignorance of modern football...You ironically resort to that usual pile of bollocks about us being the ’little Lord fauntleroys of football’ because of the RS. Do yourself a favour....set the de-lorean for 2009, hit 88mph and let 1.21 Jigowatts propel you back to the future.
Russ Quinlan
27   Posted 05/08/2009 at 15:20:37

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Same old, same old. Even when we got 4th, did we strengthen? Did we buggery. If we couldn’t afford to do it then there is no chance now. I’ve said it before, until we get a Board who can find proper finance, not necessarliy Magabucks, we will be stuck where we are now, scrapping for 5th at the very best.
It's depressing as a liflong supporter like me, god knows how Moyes feels and how much longer he will put up with it.
Peter Griffin
28   Posted 05/08/2009 at 15:30:11

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Allan- I agree with what you’re saying about Moyes and his transfer policy. He has a budget for transfer fees and wages. He will go for his top target, hopefully sign him, assess what’s left of his budget, and then do the same until he’s spent the fiver BK has given him.

Kevin- Arsenal play a very high defensive line because Toure, Gallas, Clichy, Sagna, Traore, Gibbs, Eboue, Djourou all have bags of pace. Senderos doesn’t. When he played they never changed the system and he looked exposed.We play a lot deeper which will help his game. I think he will improve our squad but not the first 11.

West Ham won’t be challenging for Europe.

I doubt Fulham will have another strong season.

Spurs are Spurs and Villa have lost their 2 strongest players and the replacements brought in means they’re weaker (and they’ve got a small squad)

I still feel we can finish in the top 6 but given £30 million I think DM could get us into the top 4 this year. Sadly the money isn’t there, but I think that’s all’s that is needed as opposed to the amount Shitteh have spent
Alan Clarke
29   Posted 05/08/2009 at 15:40:27

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Woah Doddy, what are you talking about?

You said last week that you had it on good authority the club were going to sell Lescott for £20 million + Jo. Now I don’t know what to believe if even Kenwright’s biggest fan tells me something different each week!

What’s changed? Explain yourself.
Andy Codling
30   Posted 05/08/2009 at 15:59:55

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Kevin, whilst there are people like Doddy around, then Kenwright can continue to fuck up everything he touches and lie to the fanbase.
Andy Codling
31   Posted 05/08/2009 at 16:03:46

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I wonder how long the Senderos transfer will take before it becomes a public sham...
Neil Pearse
32   Posted 05/08/2009 at 15:03:59

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Ciaran - First of all it is a bit hard to argue with someone who, as a point of methodology rather than based on facts, attributes everything good that has happened recently at the club to Moyes, and everything bad to Kenwright.

Moyes himself says that they have been "a good team" - but you choose to believe that he is lying and that secretly he believes that Kenwright has been a millstone around his neck. Well, hard to disprove since I don’t have access to Moyes’s inner thoughts. But it also might be possible that Moyes is telling a good bit of the truth. Especially as many of the senior players such as Neville and Cahill also sing basically the same tune.

On the ’Kenwright bought with no intention of investing in the club’. Well, there are first of all some reasons to believe that Kenwright bought the club because it was in a generally dreadful shape, was going south badly, and needed new ownership. And he provided that, and if he hadn’t we might very well be in a much worse position than we are now.

And he bought with no intention of investing in the club? Well, the more interesting question for you is whether you think that Kenwright bought ’with intention of having NO-ONE invest in the club’? He knew that he personally was not fabulously wealthy - although he couldn’t know how much the game would change and how much resources would be required for the owner of a major football club - but do you really think that he took over Everton INTENDING that the club did not receive the investment it needed? And, by hook or by crook, cadging off friends etc., he has actually managed to find sufficient investment to keep us easily in the top half of the league (even Moyes couldn’t have done it without some players).

The simple story about Kenwright - once we abandon the psychotic hatred which you exemplify - is that he took over the club when it was in trouble, helped to stabilise it, and indeed to get it to its ’best of the rest’ recent success, and is now manifestly not the man for the job anymore. It’s actually not a complicated story.

Kenwright is in many ways a dinosaur now as a football Chairman of a big club. Fine ten years ago, but now the football world has decisively moved on. He is one of the last of the made good ’fan owners’ who used to typify the ranks of Chairmen. Personally I don’t think getting Russian oligarchs, Arabian potentates and Thai crooks is a great improvement, but it is what it is. Without more money even Moyes can’t keep us up there for ever.

For me, Kenwright now has to seal what will go down as a successful chairmanship if he can sell on to the right kind of new owner. E.g. getting it right in the way in which our loveable neighbours and so many others have got it so wrong. Of course if Kenwright is still around in a year’s time, and we are still being outspent by all the clubs around us, the judgement on his tenure will be very much more negative. As it will be if he sells out to the wrong people.
Ciarán McGlone
33   Posted 05/08/2009 at 16:21:14

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There’s a way to win an argument..create a false premise about your opponent...

Neil, I attribute team matters to Moyes..and everything else to Kenwright. Because - believe it or not - thats where the demarcation exists.

As for gratuitous speculation about Moyes inner thoughts and silly conjecture about where the club would’ve been without Kenwright - desist.

All we know about the Moyes/Kenwright axis is that Moyes seems to be a man of integrity and would likely cover up any disatisfaction in the relationship...Beyond that I’m not willing to speculate - whether it suits my argument or not.

All I can do is comment on the facts....and the facts are this...Kenwright bought this club Knowing he himself could not invest in the team - why do this?

He disolved true blue and chased away Gregg who may have been able to invest - why do that?

He has subsequently failed to find a single penny of investment or a buyer in his 8 years in charge while there have been loads of people investing in the premiership. The inference I take from this is that either he has no intention of investing or letting anybody in....or that he’s extremely incompetent.

Take your pick.

P.S We all know the facts about how unstable this club is, it’s mounting debt and the splits in the fanbase - all on Kenwrights tenure. To suggest he has stabilised the club is not only dishonest it’s deluded.

Oh and by the way, I told Dan earlier that he wouldn’t be the last one to conflate Moyes and Kenwrights achievements...I’m glad to see you proven me right.
Michael Brien
34   Posted 05/08/2009 at 16:49:31

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Kevin - I take your point about the right back situation. Personally although I’m not a big Hibbo fan I felt for the lad in the Cup Final. The yellow card was not warranted and it destroyed his confidence as he was scared of making any further challenges. Chelsea played on that weaakness. I think DM was hoping Jacobsen would stay.
I used the examples of unknown quantities to make the point that it’s not always the headline making signings/ the players that attract a lot of initial approval that are the best transfers. You never know Senderos if he signs could turn out to be a good signing. Let’s not be too quick to condemn the lad.I was made up when we signed Andy Van Der Meyde !! Lets face it nobody was exactly dancing in the street when we signed Lee Carsley were they ?!! And I doubt whether Kevin Campbell’s arrival, initially on loan, back in 1999 had Evertonians drooling in eager anticipation !!
One thing I have been surprised at is the lack of loan signings, other than Jo. We haven’t got loadsa dosh and in the past taking players on loan and then making the deal permanent has worked well for us in recent seasons e.g. Yobo, Arteta,Howard and Pienaar. It makes sense to use that system as a "trial" to see if the player fits in. Maybe we should have taken the aforementioned Dutchman on loan !!!!!
Brian Waring
35   Posted 05/08/2009 at 17:20:57

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Alan, if Moyes is biding his time to bring in transfers, why were we told that transfer dealings would be done early,so those players had time to settle.
Michael Brien
36   Posted 05/08/2009 at 17:23:56

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Brian - in an ideal world that what would have happened. Had Sheffield United kept to their side of the bargain we would have brought in Naughton. But things often don’t go smoothly in the the transfer window. Yeah we ALL know that don’t we ?! But it’s not just with Everton - Blimey has Bent signed for Sunderland yet !! And how long did the John Terry saga go on for ?? Ribery - one day it’s all about him leaving Bayern, the next he’s staying. Adebayor - how long did it take Siteh to sort that one out ?Downing he was going to Spurs, then some reports had Liverpool as favourites to sign him. Talking of our dear neighbours - remember how long they were after Gareth Barry - all of last summer. And then every so often it was mentioned that he would Anfield bound in the close season !!! It’s not just with Everton that transfers don’t go smoothly - it just feels like it !!!!!
Andy Codling
37   Posted 05/08/2009 at 17:32:53

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LIVERPOOL have agreed a deal with Roma to sign Italy international Alberto Aquilani.

Fuck me, that was quick wasn't it... how come ours take weeks on end?
Neil Pearse
38   Posted 05/08/2009 at 17:21:36

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Ciaran, the facts are also that we have finished ’best of the rest’ in recent years and are no longer perennial relegation candidates; that relative to virtually any other Premiership club we have been and are VERY stable (the fact that you yourself and a few others are psychotically unstable about Kenwright is not very representative); that managers of even Moyes’ calibre demonstrably do not perform well when they are in unstable ownership environments or with Chairmen they cannot abide; and that even our debt levels are relatively modest compared to others.

Being reasonable about Kenwright rather than utterly biased like you, I am critical of many things yet can see also the positives. If he manages to transfer the ownership to a ’good’ new owner, Kenwright cannot but go down as having had a successful tenure at the club. Unlike you, who could not praise him if he saved the lives of half of Liverpool, I will for sure criticise him if he fails to pass our club on appropriately. Which he has to do. Getting a new ground has been a major stumbling block in that regard, so he will indeed be running out of excuses if and when Kirkby is approved.
Phil Bellis
39   Posted 05/08/2009 at 17:30:23

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Alan’s spot on Doddy, you’re actually losing your value as light relief
You keep giving us your ’on good authority’ pretentiousness as if you’re on back-scrubbing terms with the club’s mafia
You can’t have it both ways...if Davey is telling the truth who’s the club source that constantly speaks to you with forked tongue. Or are you, as a famous spaceranger once said, a sad strange little man?
Dan Brierley
40   Posted 05/08/2009 at 17:57:31

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Its incredible that people truly believe that it is not the chairman that has paved the way to providing Moyes with the players that have changed Everton’s fortunes.

As good as Moyes is, I dont think he could have got the team into the top four and other merits with the team he inherited.

So now the club spirit which is envied across the lands, is identified as being fake by one of our own. Moyes integrity wont let him speak the truth, that BK has only hindered his progress and destabilised the club by steering them away from the lower leagues and back into Europe.

The funniest point of all, is that it was BK himself that appointed Moyes. But cant take any credit for it according to some. Without BK, we wouldn’t have had the 3 time LMA winner as manager. FACT. If only we could have a billionaire such as Randy Lerner, pumping untold riches into Villa to break them into the top 4.

BK is par for the course of contesting 5th. For all his faults, it really makes me cringe to hear him so passionately character assassinated, when you look at the Ashley’s, Gaydamak’s and Magnusson’s of this world and what these people have done to their respective clubs.
Gerry Western
41   Posted 05/08/2009 at 18:19:42

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Richard, what a differance a week can make. Correct me if I’m wrong but havn’t you recently posted to say you had it on very good authority that Lescott would definitely be sold for 20m+. Apparently you had gleened this information from an insider who was highly reliable. Now your saying Lescott is going nowhere according to the manager and we should all believe him? Are you for real.
Alan Clarke
42   Posted 05/08/2009 at 18:38:57

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Brian I know my last post was a little long winded but it does answer your question in there already. I think both Moyes and Elstone expected the market to be different this summer because of the credit crunch. I don’t think they were expecting Man City and Real to totally overinflate the market. I imagine we have made contact with clubs regarding trying to buy players but the prices have been too high. Ideally if the clubs only wanted a bean and a button for their player or £12.00 paid over 12 years then no doubt the players would have been brought in earlier.

Moyes now has to wait to see if the price of his main targets falls. I think it’s too risky a game to play considering the fact we’ve such a small squad now.

Come on Richard Dodd, tells us what’s changed from last week?
John Martin
43   Posted 05/08/2009 at 18:49:46

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I stated on this site a couple of weeks ago that by not signing any new players pre season kick off we are blowing any CL hopes that we had. Arsenal were catchable and city would have been in a 3 way fight to get 4th if we had signed at least 2 players to improve the 1st team and 2 more to beef up the squad. Like the title of this piece has said we have failed to learn from last season. For whatever reason its BK who runs the club and his job to find the finance to build a team. He has failed to do so if he was a manager he’d be sacked for his failure. No doubt 1 or 2 players will arrive shortly before deadline and take a few weeks at least to bed in and by then our chance will be gone. We will push all the way for a Europa league spot but thats it i am afraid. We will look back at the summer as with last year and think if only.
Richard Jones
44   Posted 05/08/2009 at 19:18:00

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Just a little link here for you Neil on debt ratios, some FACTS rather than drivel. Enjoy!!
Richard Jones
45   Posted 05/08/2009 at 19:19:26

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opps sorry,cntnt01,detail,0&cntnt01articleid=263&cntnt01returnid=15
Marc Williams
46   Posted 05/08/2009 at 19:35:30

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Richard Dodd.... I’m with Phil & Alan here as you’ve completely contradicted yourself and you can’t have it both ways , SO WHICH IS IT ?

"Doddy tell us your source"
"Doddy ..Doddy tell us your source "
Mike Green
47   Posted 05/08/2009 at 19:37:25

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Alan (Clarke)

(Ciaran - apologies if you’ve made this point but I’ve not got time to go through all your points on this occassion)

If I was being cynical I think the reason Moyes was making more noise about wanting money last year is due to the fact he was renogotiating his own contract - either as a leverage to get more money, or leverage to get a better contract - or both. Either way he’s just looking after himself and the playing side - which is his job - should that opinion be true.

As far as sitting out until the last minute to wait for the price to come down this didn’t happen last year when we got held to ransom over Fellaini and the same could happen this year too. If you’re clearly desperate for a signing and make an approach with a day to go the selling club are going to say erm..... £20m? Take it - or leave it - oh all right you’ve twisted my arm £15m - done.

But that’s just my take on it. I’m no negotiator.
Neil Pearse
48   Posted 05/08/2009 at 20:01:47

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Thanks for the link Richard. But why do you always have to be such an abusive twat?
Neil Pearse
49   Posted 05/08/2009 at 20:10:37

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And interesting reading actually Richard, so thanks for the link.

Although of course even a transparently biased KEIOC article has to admit that our debt levels are "far from the worst" in the Premiership. It would be interesting to see the others. Perhaps the article doesn’t give us them because it wouldn’t support their story?

And by the way, I don’t know how the Liverpool numbers are calculated, but since they are totally in hock to RBS they seem a bit unlikely.
Neil Pearse
50   Posted 05/08/2009 at 20:17:59

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And no doubt I should be pleased now that KEIOC support my view (against you, Michael and others) that new owners will primarily look at future revenue streams in determining the attractiveness of the club (and therefore how much they will pay Kenwright).

Funny they don’t say that all this future revenue stuff is all irrelevant because football clubs are valued on net asset value!! As they point out, a new owner will precisely not be fooled by the asset value of Kirkby, and will actually look at the underlying revenue potential of the business into the future. Some sanity anyway.

Of course it would be interesting if you could point me to a KEIOC article explaining the superior revenue potential of staying at GP.
Alan Clarke
51   Posted 05/08/2009 at 20:12:50

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You’re probably right Mike. I’m just trying to come up with a theory as to why we are so shit when it comes to transfers. It’s not just Moyes that says transfers prices tend to be lower towards the end of the window, other managers say it too.

I suppose it’s just a way of testing the other club’s resolve. If a player at another club actually wants the move he inevitably (in most case anyway) gets his way. Everton can then put in an offer of 2 beans and a button from Kenwright’s blazer pocket. As the window drags on, the selling club realise either no other clubs want that player or no other club is willing to match their valuation so they have to drop the price because ultimitely they can’t afford to accommodate an unhappy player. Most clubs, especially the ones we buy from, are in a position where they need to sell to keep afloat so Everton start to gain the upper hand. The old saying of ’a bird in the hand is better than 2 in the bush’ applies and the selling club have to accept the beans and button offer.

The problem with this is if someone like ’Appy ’Arry gets a whiff of Moyes’ targets he’ll be more than willing to meet the selling club’s initial valuation screwing us over in the process. It’s why Everton and Moyes don’t like talking about targets. But as you say, Mike, we could end up getting screwed by leaving it too late. I don’t like it because it inevitably leaves it very late in the day to bring in new faces.
Dean Adams
52   Posted 05/08/2009 at 21:46:54

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For me, every pre-season seems worse than the last. I blame the team, the manager and to a lesser degree the club!! How dare they repeatedly, year after year raise my expectations and give me hope, pride and a smile much of the time.
Yes, I fail to learn, believe what they tell me (not personally) and hope. But for me that's so much better than the years of gloom and despair that we have endured. Loyalty comes with a price... in my case, probably my sanity and ability to reason.
Phil Bellis
53   Posted 06/08/2009 at 00:14:57

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I’ve just had an email from a reader who tells me Doddy’s mole is, in fact, a vole assessment officer at Knowsley Council, name of Kirkby Brook.
Ciarán McGlone
54   Posted 06/08/2009 at 07:25:45

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It seems that no matter how many times I point out the conflation of Moyes and Kenwright’s achievements..that it is immediately repeated...

Have you lot nothing else?
Michael Brien
55   Posted 06/08/2009 at 07:38:25

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I read yesterday that Wenger was prepared to wait till next summer to sign Chamkh ( wrong spelling I know !) rather than increase their bid from £6M. You can argue that Arsenal have a stronger squad than us - but even so there appears to be very little indication of Wenger rushing out to spend the £40M or so Arsenal received for Adebayor and Toure.
As to Benitez moving swiftly to replace Alonso - he must be the most hypocritical and lucky manager in the PL. For most of last summer he was after Gareth Barry - and was prepared to sell Alonso to finance the bid for the Aston Villa skipper. One of their best perfomers of last season could so easily have been elsewhere. And as something/someone to admire I think Benitez’ transfer policy at Liverpool is far from deserving of praise. How much money has he spent ?- he’s like a spoilt kid in a toyshop - he always wants more. Bellamy he was a real Anfield hero wasn’t he !!!?? Robbie Keane !!!!???? I would rather our so called cautious approach than that of Benitez.
Yes times have changed since the 1960’s and 70’s - I remember watching a BBC news programme in 1974 that had an item discussing how money was ruling football - it used the example of Everton paying £300,000 that day to sign Martin Dobson. We are no longer in the rich clubs group. However I think we would do well to look at the example of both Ajax and Arsenal.
It took Man United 40 years to acheive 3 European/Champions League Titles. It took Ajax 3 years to acheive that . They competed against the top European teams - who had far more financial resources than they did by establishing a brilliant youth development set up. Yes they may not be a force at the moment, but they have competed quite well I think against Europe’s biggest clubs largely due to bringing through their own players.
At Arsenal, Wenger has adopted virtually the same approach he used at Monaco. He has built up a n excellant scouting network, not just in the UK, and has brought through several very talented young players. He also has a knack of signing good young players, who have been discarded by other big clubs e.g. Viera - he was far from a household name when Wenger signed him. I think he was a squad player at Inter Milan.

Our Title winning squad of 1970 included Tommy Wright, Brian Labone,Roger Kenyon, Colin Harvey, Jimmy Husband,Alan Whittle, Joe Royle and John Hurst - who had all come through the youth and reserve teams. In 1985 and 87 although the numbers were less Gary Stevens and Kevin Ratcliffe the skipper had also come through the junior ranks.
Yes such a policy takes time - but Moyes has shown that you don’t always have to buy big names to get good results. Danny Gosling was signed from Plymouth and he has the makings of a good Premiership player. There are some good yougsters coming through - Rodwell seems to look better with every match.
Yes it’s frustrating that there is little news on the transfer front - but it’s not all dooom and gloom. We haven’t started the season yet and some of you are already writing us off. It’s taking pessimism to a new level. I suggest - to cheer up the most pessimistic Evertonians - staying in on Saturday to watch the West Brom v Newcastle match - now if ever a club was badly run it’s Newcastle !!!!!!!!
Richard Dodd
56   Posted 06/08/2009 at 09:04:46

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A week is a long time in football! Simple truth is that Lescott WOULD have been sold if City had matched our manager’s valuation.He has now been told that £20M plus Jo is out of the question -so it’s no deal.Joleon will start the season as an Everton player.OK?
Alan Clarke
57   Posted 06/08/2009 at 09:16:18

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"Davey has said repeatedly that he has no intention of selling ANYBODY-and that includes Joleon Lescott> Believe him!
Davey has said repeatedly that there will be no really big signing this year-only fringe players for cover.believe him.
You have not been lied to-our manager and chairman are as open with fans as any in the Prem.
BELIEVE THEM-FFS!" Richard Dodd.

The point is Doddy, you’ve now said Moyes has no intention of selling Lescott in your above quote. Now your saying in your most recent post that he will sell if City meet the valuation. That doesn’t add up because if City meet the valuation then Moyes has every intention of selling.

Something tells me you just make shit up.
Phil Bellis
58   Posted 06/08/2009 at 09:36:28

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Doddy, you make Walter Mitty seem credible
You are consistently showing yourself up as an attention-seeking fantasist and should quit while you’re behind
You never let truth get in the way of a good conjecture; give up and get youself a keyboard lock
Richard Jones
59   Posted 06/08/2009 at 09:52:50

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Hmm I detect that Doddy knows, from the he’ll start the season as an Everton player remark ,that he’ll be sold before the end of Sept. Too late for us to bring anyone in. WATCH THIS SPACE !!
Andy Codling
60   Posted 06/08/2009 at 12:14:49

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Its got to the point were I have to mention that Doddy you are a complete wanker.
Immature yes but truthfull YES
Richard Dodd
61   Posted 06/08/2009 at 12:59:44

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Although, no doubt, if I were to proclaim Kenwright and Moyes as the biggest liars in creation and tell you I had an aversion to all things in blue, you would deem me a hero!

Grow up, mate. Enjoy supporting the best club in the land or settle for shopping on Saturdays. You could try Tesco!

Richard Jones
62   Posted 06/08/2009 at 13:08:44

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It’s always Asda for me now Richard, as they have to my knowledge never fucked around with my club.
Phil Bellis
63   Posted 06/08/2009 at 13:19:15

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Doddy...quick, gives us the truth or get onto your vole, sorry, mole, right away
Looks like Davey’s being shafted (behind his back?), no Jo + 22 million
The truth is out there

People’s Forum - Garence
Andy Codling
64   Posted 06/08/2009 at 16:48:43

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Tell me Doddy, whats happening with the Senderos transfer?
Will it be cut and dry or will it be the usual fucked up saga drawn out over numerous weeks?
I do love supporting the blues but I cant bring myself to admire a man who tells me constant lies and fucks everything he touches.

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