Two things occur to me in this instance. Firstly, what would your expectations be for the season? Secondly what would your response be as an Evertonian?
On the first question you might conclude that, with the return of our midfield general and best goalscorer, after both missing large chunks, we would become even better & more competitive. Depending on your view of Jo and his potential partnership with the Yak then, again, we'd have reasons to be cheerful.
You might also believe that the emergence of jack Rodwell is such that it's almost like getting a classy new player in that position. You might also see the establishment of a settled and more accomplished Fellaini as a great development for Everton with his presence and goal potential.
But of course you might also conclude that we'd be exposed on the right side of the team in a bigger way (Chelsea showed how). And that Osman would be found wanting, certainly against top opposition, although to do him some credit he can produce against bottom-half clubs.
Your thoughts may also be clouded by the Lescott situation. Great for us if he stays (we need him). Catastrophic if he goes, with Jags out and Yobo off in January. And, having already lost Jacobsen, nobody pressing Hibbert as yet. The Hibbert/Osman axis is patently not good enough for the level we aspire to. Our defence could be shot to pieces.
But then your thoughts might return to positive, with the prospect of a brilliant Pienaar linking with Arteta and Rodwell and Fellaini in the centre midfield, casting triangles and passing around lesser mortals. That could be mouth watering.
But then you fall back to earth when you ponder how exposed we would be if we lost some of our best players again to injury. Our squad is too small in some areas.
In conclusion: it might just be the case that the funds, or perhaps more likely the terms, that we can afford will not get us who we want. In which case you might decide we should set our sights lower, or just not bother and soldier on. So, if this happens...
1. How do you think the season will go?
2. Will you shout & scream abuse at Bill Kenwright, spontaneously combust and generally vent your spleen at the sheer outrageousness of it all?
3. Or will you accept it for what it is, and agree that the club should not and cannot go further than it's resources allow, and approach the season with optimism. Or at least not fatalism.
What say ye Evertonians?
Me? — in these circumstances, no lower than 6th and the Europa Cup Final.
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1 Posted 07/07/2009 at 21:08:20
2 Posted 07/07/2009 at 21:20:31
We never get the player the fans want, we never get players the manager wants, we never do the right thing in any transfer window...
3 Posted 07/07/2009 at 21:58:14
We would be extremely lucky to go through a season with the added European games (touch wood to the final) without suspensions and injuries hitting our miniscule squad hard. It’s not just a case of signing players to take us to the next level but having a squad capable of keeping us where we are plus the extra quality to kick on higher.
Sadly I personally don’t believe for one minute we have the finances or chairman to do so. Normal service will resume with last-minute bargain-bucket players and at least one dragged-out bid for a player we waste our time chasing with derisory bids way below asking price.
4 Posted 07/07/2009 at 21:43:08
Last summer was the Doomsday Scenario as far as I was concerned, I went to bed at 2:30am and all we had in was Castillo, Saha, Nash and Jacobsen. So, if (and as I type, it's apparently in the balance!!) we get Jo on loan, then we’re probably half-way to beating that (although it doesn’t take much).
We’ve had it a lot worse too, the summer we only got two Championship players, Cahill and Bent. I remember going into that season telling myself that I will enjoy it more than any other no matter what and that I would sing lounder and prouder than ever before (and it frickin' worked!!) because, as far as I was concerned, we were going down. It seemed like everyone thought the same, but when Leon got the first of a double (deflection as usual) the place was rocking. It felt like a six pointer on the opening day.
But we were shite then and knew it, now we are actually decent so it's a lot harder to swallow when Moyes can’t bring anyone in and if Lescott goes he has to seriously start considering whether the progress made is starting to be dismantled, because he is yet to lose a player he didn't give the OK to go and has always maintained "If I can't buy then don't take away...".
But you just know the board are itching to cash in, this is a crucial transfer for the club and if they take the decision out of DM’s hand or try to push him into seeing the positives of a sale then they will lose more than just a quality centre-half.
5 Posted 07/07/2009 at 22:33:42
As already mentioned, we need new additions to merely standstill — never mind try and break the top four. The job of getting to 5th place or above next season has already been made that much harder by Man City, whose owners, once they have finished spending, will demand at least 5th.
I’m afraid it’s something we already know — we need MONEY. Like it or not, the top 4 or 5 sides have created a cartel in their ability to pay silly wages and transfer fees. Clubs like Everton can only look on enviously through the outside of the restaurant window whilst the top 5 dine on the tastiest offerings. Then it’s off down to the bins round the back to see what’s been discarded.
Huff, puff and endeavour will only get you so far as painfully demonstrated in the FA Cup Final and in fact on any occasion when we have gone against the top four.
Hey, at least the Ashes starts tomorrow, which is a welcome distraction from the painful daily ’window watch’ and EFC’s conspicuous lack of activity in it.
6 Posted 07/07/2009 at 23:36:08
By "over-acheiving" we may have been able to secure our star players onto long-term deals, but they will get unsettled if we’re shedding rather than adding to and progressing as a squad. Being given a taste, and presumably promises of bigger and better things soon feels empty when you’re aware that you could get double to triple your wage and the potentially a better prospect of those bigger things.
This is not to put a dampener on things, but it must be hard to buoy the squad if things go down the same route as last summer. Perhaps I’m being too harsh and our new young signings will work well with our existing hot prospects... We get personnel back from the treatment room and everyone excels under our renowned team spirit and we pick up one or two wonder cheap players and all’s well irregardless of Lescott’s decision — let’s just hope he doesn’t end up leaving on window Deadline Day.
7 Posted 07/07/2009 at 23:19:16
8 Posted 08/07/2009 at 01:02:17
Anyway, sadly so far most have just fallen into the trap of repeating same old same old. I was interested in how you think we’d actually do and what would your response be as an Evertonian.
Gavin sounds manically depressed already, whilst Ismael makes a very telling observation, namely that the season we expected the worst and only bought 2 players (from the Championship) we finished 4th. Doesn’t that tell you something about how this can work sometimes?
Some of you paint pictures of a Goodison wasteland and the club vanishing into a cloud of despair, all because we have only retained last season’s squad (who finished 5th) plus Jo again, plus a stronger Rodwell, and a stronger Fellaini, plus Arteta, plus Yakubu and some very talented youngsters.
So, whilst I’d like Moutinho, M’Bia and Naughton to arrive, I won’t slit my wrists if their clubs are asking money we can’t afford. The spirit of Marcus Bent & Tim Cahill is still alive.
9 Posted 08/07/2009 at 01:08:19
Just who is it :
Chairman of Everton FC?
Ultimately responsible for the company and it’s strategy and income generation and spending of such?
Buyer and seller of players?
Now as much as you really want to bleat about BK bashing by your "usual suspects", the post asked what if and several posters responded to that post. Your response was what exactly? Come on Dick, what’s your take on the post rather than some snide comments?
10 Posted 08/07/2009 at 01:11:35
I don’t think the board would deliberately sell players but at the end of the day they have bills and with little transparency over the years when players are sold and stories released to turn the fans against said players. I’m not expecting happy endings before the transfer window closes.
11 Posted 08/07/2009 at 02:22:17
12 Posted 08/07/2009 at 04:39:34
I don't believe for a second that Moyes had Owen done and dusted and Alex jumped in. Moyes had a go in January and was knocked back... that's it, the rest is the normal journo crap. Justifying this with Everton's record on dithering, do you think Jo going to Scotland would have happened? Therefore Jo was the main target, this guy will flourish alongside the Yak. Personally, I think the loan deal has an option to buy at the end of it.
The new kids seem okay and I don't really expect them to feature much this season. Letting Jacobsen go means that Pip will come into the right back position, therefore we are talking to players to fill that roll. M’Bia was one but he only used Everton to get a higher wages from Marseille so really I think we dodged a bullet there.
Coming into the midfield, Defour has been mentioned again after the £9 million bid over 60 months was rejected, teaming him up with Mo the Fro once again. Also, talk of Tuncay as he fits the Moyes mould of playing anywhere, upfront or right midfield.
It's 8 July — it's not doom and gloom, we will bring players in, hopefully without any more going, stop flapping as if it is 8 August.
Off on a tangent though, if we do bring another central midfielder in say Defour, alongside Mo, alongside Arteta, where will this leave Tiny Tim? To rotate with Mo The Fro, if it's a five-man midfield.
If it's a fourman with Jo and Yak up-front, where will Timmy fit.
Would like your thoughts on this because, as with most people, Cahill’s name for me should be one of the first on the team sheet.
13 Posted 08/07/2009 at 05:21:36
If we hold on to every player we had last season we can break the top 4.
It’s within our reach with the exact same squad returning, and a degree of good health and fortune.
14 Posted 08/07/2009 at 06:59:24
15 Posted 08/07/2009 at 09:06:44
Firstly, acceptance of the continually repeating lack of support for Moyes.
And, secondly, criticism of the continually repeating lack of support for Moyes.
Not much choice is there...much like Moyes won’t have much choice when he gets finally fed up with it. Integrity or no integrity — everyone has their tipping point.
16 Posted 08/07/2009 at 10:03:47
So what is this Bill fever then? Do Arsenal have Arsene fever? or Hill-Wood fever? because they haven’t bought anybody (and may lose several of their first team)? Or because their transfer record is less than ours? Or because they run themselves as a business with no rich benefactor?
Is it your suggestion that Bill Kenwright should simply give his own money to Everton to buy players? If so, why? Is that how you think a business should operate? And if not, what on earth are you talking about?
Do you think the chairman should borrow money to quell your discomfort at the lack of new arrivals, regardless of the risk? If not, what are you talking about?
Do you think it would have been good if Mike Ashley had bought Everton instead? If not, what are you talking about?
Or do you think that the bankrupt Russian at Portsmouth who bankrolled Harry’s last spending frenzy should have bought Everton? If not, what are you talking about?
Some people go through life only ever knowing what they don’t want. Please, enlighten us all, what do you want & what’s the solution?
17 Posted 08/07/2009 at 09:32:50
18 Posted 08/07/2009 at 10:34:28
It's well documented that Moyes stalled on signing a new deal because he wondered if he had taken us as far as he can go; it's also well documented (I have seen Moyes say it in an interview) that Blue Bill lets Moyes have complete control over transfers and the money available.
Bill can not afford to lose Moyes and so has to give him what he wants, Bill's not THAT stupid as to think he can lose Moyes. Appointing him is practically the only decent thing Blue Bill has done for the club!
19 Posted 08/07/2009 at 10:57:03
Sorry, I was under the impression that your question specifically wanted to garner the reaction to Kenwright if we didn’t make any signings.
But once someone mentions Kenwright, you froth at the mouth...With some of the most assinine questions and points ever.
Was this a set up?
20 Posted 08/07/2009 at 11:01:33
The only thing missing from your amusingly off-tangent and strawman riposte was a mention of Leeds United.
Could you please revisit and re-submit your post, so it contains the full gambit of scaremongering and irrlevancy?
21 Posted 08/07/2009 at 11:18:39
I hope TW invoice you, you have far too much fun for it to be free.
22 Posted 08/07/2009 at 10:57:28
23 Posted 08/07/2009 at 11:37:02
Mostly it’s fun with Alan — but this one’s went beyond absurdity.
Not content with continually moaning, vocalising and being pejorative about his dislike for the contrary opinion of the ’Kenwright Bashers’ ....he’s actually set up his very own ’honeytrap’ article in which he invites them to give their reaction to Kenwright if we spend no money.... just so he can moan about their ’Kenwright bashing’ whenever they actually answer the question he posed.
Strange. Very strange.
24 Posted 08/07/2009 at 13:38:25
Ha, ha, ha...lol
If someone asked you the weather forecast you’d manage to include Kenwright in the response. Poor Ciaran. One trick ponies are master magicians in comparison. How dreary.
I don’t care about Kenwright bashing, it’s one point of view amongst others. I’m just wondering why you didn’t address the question posed in any way whatsoever, but simply resorted to bashing Kenwright, and me, again zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. You could have taken part, or been a monstrous bore. You chose.....
Q - What time is it?
A - It’s Kenwright’s fault.
Q - How do you think we’ll do?
A - Kenwright’s a bullshitting lying deceiving bastard. Or...
A - Could you please revisit and re-submit your post, so it contains the full ambit of scaremongering and irrlevancy?
Priceless. The man who is offended by the answers AND the questions AND the chairman AND the writer of the article AND probably himself... Like a morose stalker who never quite knows what he wants. Stalk on. Whine on.
Time is short & life is cool.
25 Posted 08/07/2009 at 13:59:16
If we compare the squads from last summer and this, we will have improved, more experienced players such as Rodwell, Baines, Gosling and Fellaini, as well as the addition of Jo (looking very likely), whilst being down Valente, Jacobsen, VdM and Castillo.
I’m a little worried about cover for defence. Whilst losing Jacobsen and Valente doesn’t overly concern me, they were there to step in if needed, and with that in mind, I think we need one or two players in as cover. Other than that, I wouldn’t be having a massive strop, as I think it will be a struggle to improve the team much with the money we’ve got in an inflated market. I suppose it would be nice to have a bit of openness from the Club though to confirm this.
Just two points regarding Lescott and Vermaelen. Does anyone not think that it would make sense to drive a hard bargain with City to get Jo as a permanent transfer as part of any Lescott deal? And if that does make sense, then wouldn’t it also make sense to see that signing him on loan is another way of confirming that the club have absolutely no intention of selling Lescott? To put it another way, if today’s rags held the headline ’Ferdinand to cross divide in £50m sensation’, how long would it be before MUFC messageboards were full of gossip on who they’d get to replace him?
And regarding Vermaelen — he may have been Dutch defender of the year, playing in the third best team in Holland, which conceded the 6th least goals in that league, that’s about as ambitious as signing the Championship defender of the year. I’m looking forward to the Yak, Jo and Tim giving him the run around on his debut.
26 Posted 08/07/2009 at 14:29:34
Alan, it's quite obvious that you DO care a helluva lot about "Kenwright-bashing" — it's a feature of far too many of your posts. Cairan caught you fair and square... back down please, I’ve had enough of this nonsense.
27 Posted 08/07/2009 at 14:44:39
I answered your question.
I happen to think there will be serious consequences to Moyes’s tenure if what you emotively name - ’the doomsday scenario’ continues to happen at this club..
You didn’t accept the bona fides of my original answer ... that’s your prerogative.
28 Posted 08/07/2009 at 14:59:49
29 Posted 08/07/2009 at 15:02:28
Coming back to the spirit of the post, I am, for once, more optimistic for this coming season than previously for two reasons.
1. I think last season's achievements in the face of adversity were immense and gives Moyes, the players and supporters a real boost in confidence.
2. I think the board will now HAVE to back the manager in the transfer market — particularly after last year’s fiasco.
Against this I worry about the distraction of the politics with regard to Kirkby and I worry that the City Dollars will prove too attractive to a financially strapped board.
Even if the unthinkable happened I think we are too strong as a club right now to go into meltdown but, unless we resist the charms of City and get a few decent signings in, it will be difficult to build on what we have achieved.
30 Posted 08/07/2009 at 15:26:52
At the other end, I also believe (my opinion) that every season he tries his hardest to give David Moyes every conceivable penny he can find for transfers... and that he has the best interests of the club at heart.
I assume (as I don't really know) that quite a few of our players have contracts granting them parity with the top wage earners on the playing staff... I assume this because I know it's in players contracts at other clubs, ie Gerrard, Torres, Lampard, Arshavin — all have that clause... So, when we attempt to sign a player, for say £15-20 mill, and he wants £60,000 a week... Bill then has to find those wages for our other "top earners" as well.
This leaves Everton in a tricky place, as we may be able to afford the transfer fee, we may even be able to afford the wages... we just can't afford every other bugger wanting his slice.
I’ve read many comments on ToffeeWeb accusing Bill Kenwright of"bleeding the club dry"... We dont hear these types of comments directed at Tim Cahill, Mikel Arteta or Yakubu...
My (and yes it has been long winded)answer to your question, Alan, is: if we get everybody back fit, get a few more of the younger lads pushing on, and don't buy anybody... then I won't be gutted. WHY?? Because even in my wildest dreams DM may only be given £20 mil to spend and, when you add in all I have mentioned above, I can't see it being enough to change us enough to make top 4.
Also, if City do get all or even most of their transfer targets, the quality they have available to them (or will have) could make it a feat to maintain our place in the top 5.
31 Posted 08/07/2009 at 18:09:38
Well, surprise surprise... t’was YOU!!! And it was essentially the same old moan.
So let’s get it straight shall we? Wherever you have been reading these many comments accusing Bill Kenwright of "bleeding the club dry" — it was NOT here on ToffeWeb. Okay?
32 Posted 08/07/2009 at 18:39:32
The article was aimed at seeing how many of us would be optimistic/realistic and how many would go the other way. It was not about Kenwright. It was to see who might think along the same lines as Jay Harris, who you will note is NOT a Kenwright supporter, but who kindly bothered to respond to the article.
Ciaran McGlones observations are often wrist-slittingly tedious and drag every single nuance around to Bill Kenwright. You have been sucked into the same pot, rather than responding to the word & spirit of the article.
A number of people have actually read the article and stuck to the point. People like yourself and McGlone seem to have Kenwright on the brain. If it happens that the club is priced out of buying one or other player then it immediately becomes Kenwright’s lack of support for Moyes. Clearly no other explanation is acceptable.
I truly don’t care. I may disagree based on any number of things. But I don’t actually give a toss. What I give a small toss about is coming across the same posts, time after time, regardless of the actual subject of the article. It renders Toffeeweb an infinitely less interesting place to be.
The lunatics are taking over & I too have had enough of this nonsense. All heat, no light, very boring.
One last point Michael. Your rebuke to Terry Maddock is extraordinary. Firstly in that he,unlike you & McGlone, actually dealt with the point of the article. And secondly, regardless of who’s said it, or precisely which words were used, the idea that there have been no postings on Toffeeweb accusing Kenwright of bleeding the club dry is utterly risible.
I think a sense of perspective is urgently required.
33 Posted 08/07/2009 at 22:41:58
2. Will you shout & scream abuse at Bill Kenwright, spontaneously combust and generally vent your spleen at the sheer outrageousness of it all?
Seems to be quite a lot about Kenwright there, fomented by your good self. I can’t see why you’re trying to deny it? Why write such piffle unless you wanted people to respond? They did and then you start all over again!
You’ve belaboured you idiotic point about "It’s all Kenwright’s fault" quite enough. If you must talk about the Chairman, can you please try to keep it sensible.
Regarding Terry Maddock’s point, I was just curious, because he had put "bleeding the club dry" in quotes which I thought a little odd, since it was not a phrase I recall reading too often on here.
People critcise Bill Kenwright for a host of things but bleeding the club dry...??? It implies that he is actively removing money from the club (is there any other interpretation?). I have challanged the very small number of people who use this website to suggest that is what Kenwright is doing because (a) I don’t believe it is true; (b) I don’t believe there is any evidence to support the contention; and(c) I don’t like the website being used to propagate such lies.
Bill Kenwright invested a lot of his own money to buy shares in Everton from Peter Johnson. Bill Kenwright does not receive any remuneration from the Club. Bill Kenwright is criticised by some for not putting enough/any more of his money into the club, but I think most us accept that knowing that he hasn’t got any to put in. However, actively taking money OUT of the club is a different matter.
So the mystery remains: who says he is "bleeding the club dry"... well, turns out it was none other than Terry Maddock himself! And there I think the case rests. Unless of course you could direct me to some recent posts that I have overlooked, since you seem so convinced they exist.
34 Posted 09/07/2009 at 01:01:16
1. Rodwell is going to turn into an excellent CDM and distribute like a drug dealer in the ’hood.
2. Fellaini is going to improve immensely (as he did second half of the season).
3. CBs are so solid it’s insane, especially when Jags is back
4. Neville will rotate in and out of the CDM position when Rodwell needs a breather (long season coming) and RB with Hibbert as cover.
5. The Yak is coming! The Yak is coming!
6. Jo on loan... huge addition, young raw talent, happy here, and we’ll get him permanently
7. Cahill’s a God
8. Arteta is coming back
9. Lescott is cover for Baines in a long season.
Guys - we are looking very good at the moment if we just hold on to everyone.
RM — Ozzy is good, but needs to be cover.
RB — would be nice then depth — bargain boys who won’t hurt you and give you depth. Young talent in the system getting tossed in for meaningless Europa group games will work fine, thank you.
What team doesn’t have holes? We have the right side to currently worry about. The transfer window isn’t over.... but I understand the skepticism. I must be mad. Am I the only one that sees the sun coming over the horizon? TY Prabhat. At least there’s one fellow Blue in my insane asylum.
Finally, knock all this crap off about BK. It’s really getting old. I think many are just grumpy due to off-season blues (not Blues, or maybe, I dunno).
35 Posted 09/07/2009 at 08:45:01
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