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It's Yesterday Once More

By Tony Marsh :  12/08/2009 :  Comments (91) :
It's all going off here on ToffeeWeb and once more Evertonians up and down the country are at each others cyber-throats. Just like I predicted in early July, no players in, players out and bullshit by the bucket load from the club... Don't ye just love it?

Yesterday I made a comment that I wished us to lose 5-0 to Arsenal this weekend, which might lead to a revolt by fans against the Kenwright regime. I only wish that the vigorous and passionate responses I got to this quip from some of our fans could be repeated but in Bill Kenwright's direction.

Of course I don't want us to lose 5-0 in any game but I feel as if the majority of our fanbase are just fast asleep and they need shaking the fuck up out of this terminal slumber.

Evertonians are fast becoming the most placid, apathetic, easy-to-please football supporters anywhere in the world. It knocks me sick. Bend over and take your spanking again you naughty boys...

Every season since Bill Kenwright took over, we have had nothing but lies, lies and more lies in the summer break and yet some of you still back him. I still have nightmares over Kirkby and nearly broke in to tears last week on the Mersey Ferry when my youngest asked me if the Echo Arena was our new ground?.... "It should've been, lad," I said, "but it got messed up by that twat who claps and hums to Z-Cars."

When we beat Man Utd in the semis in April, you couldn't keep BK off the telly or out of the papers — he even did an interview on Talksport Radio. "We did this for me Uncle Cyril," he said, after we knocked the Mancs out.... I hope your uncle Cyril is better now Bill but where the fuck are you??? Any chance of a TV appearance to let us know what the fuck you are doing with the club, matey??

Lescott, if he goes, can't be blamed for wanting away from Everton in its present state. Man City may have been the laughing stock of football over the past 25 years, a comic's dream... but no more. That honour now belongs to us. Kenwright has seen to that.

If you had to place your life savings on either Everton or Man City being the more successful club over the next 5 years, where would you place your dough? Now, with this in mind, don't you think Lescott sees the bigger picture here?

When all said and done, football is a career for the players, not just a hobby, and who doesn't want to better themselves in their chosen career? Treble anyone's wages and watch them go...

What really makes me laugh though is the call from fans who want Lescott to show loyalty to the club. The majority of our lot, along with the chairman, sold us all down the river themselves with the Kirkby vote — and now they want loyalty!?!

The No voters asked and begged for loyalty against Kenwright and Wyness back then and got laughed at. So DON'T ask any player to be loyal when you stab your own kind in the back yourselves with this move to Kirkby.

Things are going tits up in a big way but the types wearing cardigans with leather patches on the elbow (Richard Osborne, Doddy etc) just won't have it. You see, being runners up in a cup final every 10 years or so makes you a promising side with a great future — according to some.

Well if this is true Cardiff, West Ham, Millwall and Wigan Athletic are up there with the best of them on that score... Not only Everton who can grab a runners up spot is it?

I now feel genuine sorrow for David Moyes as he struggles to cope with the avalanche of bullshit he has to deal with on a daily basis. Worry about players leaving is one thing but what about when Davey Boy himself decides to spew it? Will you still be so quick to defend Kenwright if that ever happens? I think not.

Reader Comments

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Karl Masters
1   Posted 12/08/2009 at 17:54:48

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i don’t always agree with everything you say, Tony, but I am definitely sick of the lies that have emanated from BK over the years.

This Summer I think he has been tied to his office chair with gafa tape over his mouth to stop any more silly comments that raise our expectations, although he couldn’t help himself at that apology for an AGM.

All I would add as a word of caution though is a quote from a journalist friend of mine. He attends Everton games quite frequently and like many of us, is heartily sick of the greed, agents and lies that are enveloping the game.

’’ football is still a great game, but it’s become a really shoddy business and I am heartily sick of all the machinations and deceit involved in all these transfers.’’
Chris Jones
2   Posted 12/08/2009 at 17:51:00

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The laughing stock of English football? I’m sorry Tony but you’re miles off the mark with that one try Newcastle, Leeds, Southampton, Portsmouth etc who have all been bought and sold in recent years. In fact outsiders respect us and fear coming to Goodison more than the fuckin City of Manchester.

I agree with regards to BK on one point, he’s never around to calm the waters when the shit hits the fan. Long term he needs to walk and I hope DK falls on its arse. I don’t want us to move grounds but again you wrongly you criticise the club’s management when in fact (rightly or wrongly) they’ve been loyal to the majority who actually voted ’yes’ for the move?

I also take issue that you claim we are apatehtic. Everton fans more than any other club’s have their feet on the ground and show real passion for the team - not all of us are fickle (3 months ago we played in our first cup final for 14 years!).

I think we all need to pull our necks in and reserve our judgement until 1st September.
John Martin
3   Posted 12/08/2009 at 18:01:20

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I agree with most of the above. However, I imagine most of the Yes voters voted that way because they have not seen a finacially viable alternative. Kirkby is not my idea of an answer either but I don't believe any Yes voter stabbed No voters in the back. There is nothing wrong in any belief of a brighter future and doing what you have been led to believe will deliver it.

As for Moyes I don't feel sorry him. Not while he is on £60k per week. His reputation right now is very high; he could walk away and into another job and have money to spend. He chooses not to demand transfer cash.

It's his decision to sign players after 6 weeks of the market's opening and after initially saying he would only sign players who improve the 1st team. He now comes out with he wants cheap players on low wages. Are these going to improve the 1st team. To me they sound like sqaud fillers and should have been brought in earlier in the pre season.

From the boardroom's lies and to Moyes’s recent statements are making us look a laughing stock. I don't blame Lescott for leaving a club without any ambition and a manger who seemingly goes along with our inept board. I don't want Moyes to go, I want him to show some fight... the kind many of the fans on here show in not accepting mediocrity.

Dave Lynch
4   Posted 12/08/2009 at 18:14:31

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Tony. Three words come to mind when trying to reason with Dodd, Madden, Osbourne etc..... They are:
Terry Maddock
5   Posted 12/08/2009 at 18:12:50

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John, Moyes didn't say he WANTS cheap players on low wages... he said that he can't get players for the type of fee we can afford who will fit into our wage structure (£50k/wk) or much less and most of all who will improve the squad.

As for voting yes for Kirkby, if somebody asked my family to vote on a house move and were promised a 5-bedroom detached house with games room and swimming pool, I think they would vote yes... then be disappointed after the votes were counted and we we shown to a beat up ex-council flat in Croxteth...

I don't think I would accuse them of being "traitors", "stabbing me in the back" etc... After all, they were lied to.

As for Tony..."Just like I predicted "... well we know how most of your predictions go eh...!

Howard Don
6   Posted 12/08/2009 at 18:24:30

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Tony you should have been a politician mate. You have a real talent for taking elements of some truth and way over hyping it to levels of furious indignity.

"The laughing stock of English football?" that’s ridiculous Tony, untrue, nonesense, absolutely without foundation and, in fact, completely the opposite to how most commentators on the English game see us. We haven’t been so respected in years.
Neil Humphrey
7   Posted 12/08/2009 at 18:30:24

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Christ this is getting REALLY boring Tony. Every single article is the SAME vitriolic bile. We get it, you hate Kenwright and don’t want to go to Kirkby. And you don’t rate Osman and Hibbert (although to your credit you havent pulled that classic moan out of the bag in the above post).

We are ALL hacked off that there hasnt been more inward transfer activity (with the exception of the £18m Brazilian striker we have resigned) but lets face it, the players who have left will hardly be missed.

And as for Lescott, do me a fucking favour. Trying to paint it like he should leave because we are a ’laughing stock’ - shows how out of touch with reality you are mate. We are feared by the rest of the PL - even the Sky Four are worried about coming to Goodison (Wenger said last year it was the hardest place to play). If Lescott leaves it is because he is a money-grabbing disloyal tosser. No more no less.
Sam Higgins
8   Posted 12/08/2009 at 18:27:50

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As much as Ive always found Tony’s views and analysis an important counter weight to the likes of Dodd and Osbourne pro everything Everton arguments, I now believe that he maybe the one contributor living in the real world.

I've rarely agreed with his criticism of the club — I myself have once too often adopted the Doddy stance and believed all is well at Everton and BK despite his bollox knows what he’s doing.

But this summer I have radically changed my opinion and I can't believe it but I've well and truly pitched my tent in Tony Marsh’s campsite.

One summer of crapness was just par of the course. Last summer I was still willing to believe all was being done that could be. However a third summer of absolute shite at EFC has truly fucked me off to the point at which I'm thinking BK has to walk now. This just can't carry on. We are gonna be sliding back down that table quicker than a pair of Essex girl’s knickers.

Why oh why have we not signed anyone? Why oh why when being offered a fucking good sum of transfer cash for a player who don't want to play for us anymore are we taking the moral high ground? Why oh fucking why wasn't all this sorted out in July? The fucking season starts next Saturday and we find ourselves up shit creak without a paddle AGAIN!!!

And Tony's right. BK can't stop shouting his mouth off after the FA semi - but then why can't he shout his mouth off about some new signings that ACTUALLY sign for us??? What exactly does this man do for our club? What does he do for David Moyes?

While other chairman are supplying managers with the readies for new players BK is doing his best lord lucan impression!

I think a lot of EFC supporters need to start thinking about this and get their head out of the seasonal summer sand. EFC needs an investor very fucking soon — or we ain't gonna win shit for years.

Kevy Quinn
9   Posted 12/08/2009 at 18:32:09

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Absolute shambles at the minute ,we are the only club not to purchase a player so far this summer. The season starts on Saturday if the club need reminding. Tonys right to say we are a laughing stock, behind the scenes must be a joke if we cant have any players in by now.

Elm over a month still nothing Senderos over a week nothing again. Lucas Neil is on a free so to is Mikel Salgado if were as skint as we make out why not add these to the squad for free two decent players.If it continues like this is it wont be long until Mikel follows his mate to pastures new.
David King
10   Posted 12/08/2009 at 18:39:01

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’Don’t you think Lescott sees the bigger picture here’

Bollocks, the only thing Lescott sees is £90,000 a week.......
Spending millions does not guarantee City being more ’successful than us in the next 5 years’.........
Steve Edwards
11   Posted 12/08/2009 at 18:38:37

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I don’t think we are a laughing stock, far from it but thats what makes it all the more frustrating. Two or three decent players and we could be right up there. Every year we hope beyond hope that something will be done but we know deep down it won’t so here we are again.

Neil, do me a favour, all this money grabbing disloyal tosser stuff. If you as an Evertonian were playing for say Aston Villa, are you trying to tell me that you wouldn’t do the same as what Lescott is doing. If you say you wouldn’t then I don’t believe you and I don’t think many would.
Marc Williams
12   Posted 12/08/2009 at 18:44:06

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Tony - You’re wasting your time fella, there are too many on here that just can’t accept that there is a major problem, even after another ’shambolic summer’.

It really makes you wonder how bad the mis-managment, lies & constant let downs have to get, in order to register with some on here. I feel more depressed now than when we were perpetually fighting relegation.
In those days I was resigned to what was coming BUT these last two seasons have been our best chance in 20 years and we are being badly sold out & let down by our board.

Rupert Sullivan
13   Posted 12/08/2009 at 18:52:38

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Tony some good points as ever, I would say however that EFC is not becoming THE laughing stock, but they are rapidly becoming A laughing stock.

I don’t think Lescott sees the bigger picture either, I think Lescott sees the money, but then maybe I’m wrong on that.

The game of football is being ruined by money, Murdoch, the Champions League (which lets in clubs which finished fourth in England), UEFA letting LFC back in when they didn’t qualify etc. Football has become about protecting the powers that be with popularist, money making, media hungry activities and is no longer about supporting a team.

Like most things, the solutions to all this would be simple, if only the people in power weren’t in power - the FA, UEFA, Ketwright et al.

Sadly however, I can’t see it changing - as BK says, investment from a billionaire is the only thing that will push EFC to the top... much like for Chelsea and Man City
Andy Crooks
14   Posted 12/08/2009 at 19:13:55

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Tony, I agree with what you say with one exception. You're feeling sorry for David Moyes. He has been paid a huge amount for his loyalty to Kenwright and, in my view, is complicit in the bullshit. In his dealings with Lescott he has been totally inept. Moyes and Kenwright come as a pair and our coach’s loyalty is to his chairman rather than the supporters.
Stephen Kenny
15   Posted 12/08/2009 at 19:08:18

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I’m sick of being told we're punching above our weight! As if we're on a par with the Wigans of this world.

I'm sick of BK telling us he’s looking for investors? There's a big difference between a buyer and an investor. Quite clearly the club isn’t for sale.

I’m sick of hearing that 60% of our fans voted for DK! Look at who was eligible and how the vote was managed and ask yourself if it was both fair and true?

I’m sick of being outspent by the likes of Stoke and Hull City. A season after we reached the FA Cup Final and came fifth in the richest league in the world, we can't find a couple of million for an unwanted Arsenal reserve and a Swedish kid nobody has ever heard of.

I’m sick of this whole Lescott saga, we all know what he’s worth and selling players above their true value always makes good sense financially. If our ex CB manager cannot replace Joleon Lescott for £10-12 million I’ll show my arse in the home and bargain window on County road!

Finally I’m sick of hearing the nonsense from the people who claim Bill Kenwrights got the best interests of our club at heart? If he did we wouldn’t be dwbating all of the above!

Tony, If you want to know how many of us want rid of BK start chanting "Kenwright out" and see how many join in? There will be at least two of us.
Steve Edwards
16   Posted 12/08/2009 at 19:41:13

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Stephen - you sound pretty sick to me mate. I’d go and have a lie down. I hope its not that swine flu, I’ve heard the first systems are being an over expectant Evertonian.
Stephen Kenny
17   Posted 12/08/2009 at 19:51:19

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It would take a bit more than a lie down to make me feel better about any of that!

I’ll send the missus out to look for a cure 24/7 though just in case.
Alan Clarke
18   Posted 12/08/2009 at 19:50:54

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I think some of the apathy and slumber you describe Tony is down to the fact that we appreciate how fucked football is in general. To really compete we need someone in the mould of Abramovich or the Man City Arabs to buy out Kenwright. On the other hand we don’t want to lose our soul. I’d actually hate to be Man City signing up every mercenary going. I think so many Evertonians feel like they’re between a rock and a hard place on this.

I still think, though, that we’re losing our soul under Kenwright. People are so sick of his bullshit. There’ll still be a good feeling around Goodison after last season’s cup final but if we hit a bad patch I imagine attendances will fall dramatically. People will show their disapproval with their feet rather than with their voices.
Gareth Atkinson
19   Posted 12/08/2009 at 20:12:28

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I totally agree with the Kenwright thing and the fact that the clubs a fucking shambles, but wanting us to lose 5-0 to kick a protest off, sort your fuckin head out. I’d call someone quite willingly want us to lose is more of a backstabber than someone who ticked the yes box on there Kirkby voting form.

Lescott being ambitious is a load of bollocks as well, his only ambition is increasing his bank balance, he’s actually quite willing to spunk his world cup chance up the wall for money, so fuck him.
Thomas Christensen
20   Posted 12/08/2009 at 21:18:39

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Tony. A compelling argument and I agree BK is an annoying idiot who pops up when you least like him to and never does when we want him to.

BUT.. while you are persuading us that we should start hating BK, you offer no solutions. What are you actually going to do about it??

If you hate BK it is time for some action.
1. Make up a Goodison Chant ’Kenwright OUT.’
2. Create a ’We hate Bill Kenwright’ facebook page.

I want to know what you are going to do about this imbecile who is making us a laughing stock. Secretly you like him because he is an easy target and has his flaws published in every other post on here!!
Glen Anderson
21   Posted 12/08/2009 at 21:58:03

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Tony, you’re absolutely right. I reckon we get Agent Johnson and Walter Smith back here straight away, much better than these Kenwright and Moyes wankers who are ruining our club.
Ray Robinson
22   Posted 12/08/2009 at 22:18:07

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Tony, you wasted a totally good a post by tying in the Kirkby gripe so spuriously. I wasn’t disloyal when I voted for DK. Far from it! Ask me again now and I would be 100% against it but just like your 5-0 comment, which I accept was for effect, it’s totally OTT. Yours enlightened but not disloyal!
Russell Buckley
23   Posted 12/08/2009 at 23:51:29

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I just want the season to start. The transfer window is a cruel time for many fans but none more than us. While saying we are the laughing stock of English football is a bit rich I’ve almost had enough of the current regime.

Everton have fought tooth and nail under Moyes and progressed to be a solid side.

The thing that gets me is imagine where we could be if we had even Villas money. Time and time again Kenwright has let Moyes, the fans and most importantly the team down. Bringing investment and funding to the club should be the major focus of our chairman and he has delivered next to nothing. Lesser clubs are gaining investment around us and while there is something to be said for stability it isn’t going to win us a bucket load of major honours and a club of our stature shouldn’t be aiming for 1 trophy every 10 years.
David Clark
24   Posted 12/08/2009 at 23:49:03

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Tony, one thing’s for sure. Your first sentence is spot on.

If JLo goes, so be it. We’ll survive, we always do. However, if someone offered to double my wage packet, I wouldn’t take long to say yes. Sure it can be argued that £40k pw is enough, but would anyone here honestly turn down £80k pw plus? Sure it’s disappointing but we don’t have the money to pay the inflated salaries.

Everton are NOT a joke though, by any stretch of the imagination and as frustrated as I am I never want us to get any result other than a win. Only 5-0 home defeat would make us a laughing stock but there is no way this would bring in an investor to buy out the club is it?
Brendan McLaughlin
25   Posted 13/08/2009 at 00:03:03

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FFS! "THINGS ARE GOING TITS UP IN A BIG WAY" - It’s the first time we’ve heard this sort of "gloom & doom" from Tony, so things must be really fucking bad!!!
Alan Kirwin
26   Posted 13/08/2009 at 01:11:53

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Tony you’ve lost it. In the space of a few days you’ve expressed a desire for us to get thrashed at home and now you’re labelling us the laughing stock of English football.

Sorry buddy, but this just shows how out of touch you are with the real world. We may be struggling financially, but fans of every other club have mainly admiration and often envy for Everton.

Here in Sussex I encounter fans of Chelsea, Arsenal, ManU, Liverpool, Newcastle, Palace, Pompey and..... Everton. The majority verdict from other fans is :wish we were more like you", "wish we had Moyes", "at least your chairman’s a real fan".

These are all things that may be inconvenient to hear. But there’s something sad & disturbing when fans, journalists, players, managers and chairmen all express their high regard for our club, team,manager and, yes, chairman. Yet you somehow try to convince yourself that we’re a laughing stock.

Sorry Tony. You obviously care, but you’re becoming a caricature and really are out of touch. What you suggest in your article is merely your opinion and, on the facts of the matter, you couldn’t be more wrong my friend.

Get a grip Tony. You make plenty of valid points on other things. Just sounds like you’ve lost the plot completely now.
Ian Pilkington
27   Posted 12/08/2009 at 18:44:07

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Just a reminder to all the BK apologists who seriously think we can finish 5th-8th this season:

3 first team squad members have gone — Valente, Castillo, Jacobsen; 4 have long term injuries —Arteta, Jagielka, Anichebe, Yakubu — with only the latter remotely approaching fitness; no first team squad members have been signed as yet.

Can anyone explain how Lescott, if sold at whatever price, can be suitably replaced by August 31? Does Moyes have another Krøldrup lined up somewhere in Europe?f he has spotted another Lescott or Jagielka in the Championship will Redknapp move in?

Senderos, if he ever signs, can only be regarded as a squad player. Jagielka is set to miss nearly half of the season and is likely to return just as Yobo departs for a month to Africa. Rodwell is surely set to be commanding defensive midfielder, not a central defender.

Do we really want another start to the season like last year?

Kristian Boyce
28   Posted 13/08/2009 at 06:48:05

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Ian, the list of missing players is a huge wake up call of how desperate we are for the need of players. You can also add to that list AVDM and Kissock, though not first team players, still able to warm the bench, and also the ability to make a certain memorable cross.

I remember watching the team line-up’s on MLS All-Star game a couple of weeks ago, and then the commentators talking about the two sides were able to name 7 subs. It showed the MLS list of 7 first, then it listed the Everton subs list. 5 players were listed, with 3 being 17 or younger, and one being Nash. I remember looking in shock that it was crazy that we couldn’t even have a full complement of players available for a game.

Neil Pearse
29   Posted 13/08/2009 at 08:04:14

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Tony, maybe we are a laughing stock in Liverpool (versus a club totally in hock to RBS??) - but I can assure you that we are absolutely not in the south of England. In fact, I have to tell supporters of other clubs all the time: "We are not in such good shape as you think". We in fact are the club now envied and admired by so many others. Even over Lescott I hear, "Thank God some club has the balls to stand up to Man City... And not roll over like Villa and Arsenal".

So you are simply out of touch with reality Tony on this one.

To all the Kenwright haters it would also be interesting to know why you think we have so far turned down over £30M for Lescott, Saha and Vaughan. Isn’t Bill only interested in lining his own pockets? Why doesn’t he take this money and pay down the debt? Then he can make even more money from us when he finally sells. Isn’t that all that he is interested in?
Alan Williams
30   Posted 13/08/2009 at 07:55:16

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Tony, you are a Richard Head of the A1 variety. Whilst some of your articles do make me smile you lose any respect from the majority when you give BK personal abuse. Maybe you should go for a drink with Jay down the old dock road and see if the stripers are on you both need to get a life.

I’m not going to say BK is perfect far from it but the only reason why he fails on all levels is because he doesn’t have the cash to take us the next step. I too look at the Echo arena and look what could have been, I stayed at the HI Express all last weekend and had it in my view for two days!! Gutted is an understatement of what could have been.

The problem with Kirkby, Kings Dock and the Loop all come back to the fact WE HAVE NO MONEY!!!!!!! Is that so difficult for you all understand. The Kings Dock money now seems affordable but you must remember that was before the new Sky money so we couldn’t raise that sort of cash, it's simple mathematics.

If on Saturday we all turn against BK what does it achieve………..? Can you name any other interested party that is willing to purchase the shares and invest in new or improved stadia as well as players on the pitch…? The answer is NO, NO, NO, NO. Unless we can all solve that problem all these other issues are completely irrelevant.

Simple fact is we all love EFC and we can't understand why nobody wants to invest in us, but if you look at us as a brand and a business, we are second rate model that is not worth the outlay you and I would expect of an institution we all love!!!

Arranging a mutiny can only succeed if you have a leader in hand to take over. Don’t lose faith in our club, just be a realist and it all becomes a bit clearer. COYB

Henry Enzio
31   Posted 13/08/2009 at 08:42:27

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Frankly i think the bitterness which dtreams from Mr Marsh’s "articles" are unbecoming of an Evertonian. We have always tried to maintain an air of dignity, we have finished 5th two seasons in a row and despite not being media darlings this hasnt been an accident, yes the squads looking thin but the window isnt closed yet. Lets have some patience please.
Richard Jones
32   Posted 13/08/2009 at 09:02:03

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Steady there, Neil, you seem to be drifting from your stance that Bill is doing the best he can under the circumstances, to actually saying he's doing a good job.

We made no signings of significance, Neil, we’ve had more bullshit, ie "We won't be leaving it late again", and on top of it all, It now seems your dream move to Kirkby will have a cap on capacity of 40,000... lower than we have now. WTF, Neil???

Richard Jones
33   Posted 13/08/2009 at 09:07:46

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Oh and Lescot will be going, watch this space, just before the window closes.
Neil Pearse
34   Posted 13/08/2009 at 09:09:12

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Rich, only psychotic Kenwright haters like you think that he is purely selfish and evil and has never done anything good. As you very well know, I criticise Kenwright as well as giving praise where it’s due. Like most reasonable people on this site. Not like you unfortunately.

By the way, care to tell me why the evil one hasn’t simply pocketed the £30M+?
Neil Pearse
35   Posted 13/08/2009 at 09:14:25

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And Rich, like Tony, you will be happy when Lescott goes, because you can express even more of your hatred for Kenwright and feel good about it. It’s sad and pathetic.
Kevin Sparke
36   Posted 13/08/2009 at 07:59:58

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As I understand it Tony Marsh has three main points.

1. Kenwright is a liar and his stewardship of Everton FC is an unmitigated disaster

2. The vast majority of Everton supporters are unthinking dupes and saps; satisfied with mediocrity for not seeing through Kenwright and demanding his resignation

3. Everton supporters should ’demand’ change by engaging in protest. Which is why Tony ’hopes we get beat 0-5 on Saturday’ as a catalyst to a fans revolt – an ‘up with this we will no longer put’ type revolution where presumably we will rise like lions from our slumber, throw off our chains, tear down the old regime and a billionaire investor will emerge from out of the shadows and a bright new age of Premier League and European domination will follow in his stewardship – Kirkby will shelved and a new stadium built within the city boundaries or a ground share with the ‘evil empire’ will be mooted. .

So, let’s examine each of these points rationally. 1) Kenwright has proved to be economical with the truth on a few occasions – ‘Fortress Sport’ being the one example which springs to mind. So Tony has a fair point there.

Kenwright’s stewardship of Everton FC has largely been determined by his own level of personal wealth and with little pecuniary investment he has overseen Everton FC to the brink of the Champions League on a few occasions and has cemented Everton as the ‘best of the rest’. If Kenwright has done one thing right in his reign it is appointing David Moyes as manager of Everton FC – his record speaks for itself. He (Moyes) has taken a club in crisis; stabilised it, largely through shrewd investment in the transfer market and in our youth system; so as we are the envy of more than two thirds of the Premier League. I know some of you are disenchanted with the type of football Moyes plays… and guess what – so am I. However, if you cast you mind back to November, December, January last year Moyes was getting there – when Arteta moved to the centre of midfield things looked very different indeed. Flowing football and incisive passing – it was great!

2) “The vast majority of Everton supporters are unthinking dupes and supporters of the present Kenwright Stewardship” Erm… no were are not Tony. Most of the blues I speak to are very much against the Kirkby move and see Kenwright as not the guy to take us to the Champions League or to ensure we win the Premier League. The problem being Tony – who the fuck is? Where is this multi-billionaire investor? You see your argument falls down. If Kenwright is going to make a packet out of the Kirkby move – why is he not prepared to sell Everton FC now to the investors he is obviously turning away in droves? Why?... I’ll tell you why – they don’t exist. For whatever reason nobody wants a piece of Everton FC; we are unattractive to the oil multi-billionaires; the clueless American sports moguls; the far eastern failed politicians and Russian despotic derivative magnates. They don’t like us; they don’t want us – they won’t buy us. Is this down to Kenwright not wishing to make himself richer than he could ever imagine – I’m not so sure.

3. ‘We should demand success’. I’m sorry mate but I’m an Evertonian of the old school and I want to see us win every game – I can’t go to the Arsenal game hoping we get beat 0-5… it just does not seem right. But – what if we did lose 0-5. What if we lost the next ten matches 0-5? Who do you think would fall on his sword? Kenwright… or Moyes? What if Kenwright did put the club up on the open market? Would these hidden investors all come charging in for a piece of Everton – no chance! Newcastle United who have a bigger brand new state of the art stadium; a bigger natural fan base; a bigger trophy room (Empty) could not find a buyer when the club went on the market last year – what chance have we got?

Another thing, I go to the game to watch a bit of footy played; have a pint or two and a couple of pies – I don’t go the match to take part in revolutions or any storming of the boardroom – leave that to the Geordie rent-a-mob who turn up whenever a Sky News van is within sniffing distance of ‘Sid James’ Park’ – and what have they achieved?

No, mate – you’ve got it wrong – we aren’t dupes happy with Kenwright – we’re supporters of Everton who all have our own theories of what needs to be done; for the majority of us a quiet life and a sniff of a trophy every now and again will do.

Personally, I think Kirkby will be the death of Everton FC – I do what I can to let as many people know about this theory as I can – and I am sickened that we never moved forward with Kings Dock… but apart from ranting on footy websites and sending pleading letters to the board – it stops there.

So, no Tony… I’m not a dupe or a sheep happy with the way things are – I’m angry and sad and becoming very complacent – football is fucked and Kirkby will mark the end for me. It’s been a nice ride 7 major trophies in 40 years – but Kirkby will be when I get off the bus.
Neil Pearse
37   Posted 13/08/2009 at 09:18:28

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And Rich - Kirkby is not even my favoured more for the club: which is a groundshare as I have stated on numerous occasions. And I have repeatedly described Kirkby as the best of a set of poor options. Can’t you read?
Iain McWilliam
38   Posted 13/08/2009 at 09:48:17

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A bit like Neil I suppose, I dont think BK is doing a bad job but that doesnt mean I want him to stay and I do think he is being economical with the truth.

Considering his financial resources are far inferior than most other premiership owners he has managed to keep the club floating for quite a while now. Remember, if it wasnt for him Agent Johnson would still be in charge...he is the one that screwed this club over. Hes the one that spend money we never had. BK rescued the club because no one else wanted to at the time so he does at least deserve our gratitude for that.

If BK had wanted to make a quick buck he would have sold the club a long time ago but its obvious its not his main intention. He loves the club and his main motivation is that hes in charge of it, hes from a showbiz background and he loves the limelight so its going to take a helluva offer to get him to relinquish that. I cant think of many investors who would want to invest money and take a backseat...perhaps this is why he had his dance with the Fortress fund which was basically a faceless fund of money.

The thing that worries me (and this is where I agree with Tony) is that with Kenwright as the owner this same situation is going to go on and on and on. The only idea BK has come up with to generate more funds is to move to a new stadium. In theory this makes sense but due to his choice of location I dont think this is going to be guaranteed so where does that leave the club? I do think in the very short term a ground share is the best financial option (but I will have every minute of it), as soon as we can write of more of our debts we should bugger off like we did a few hundred years ago.

If Kenwright stays, you will get the same problems we have had for the past 3 seasons continuing despite whatever modicum of success Moyes manages to get on the field. The club is not going to get better its just treading water.
Jack Francis
39   Posted 13/08/2009 at 09:53:37

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I dont always agree with what you say Tony,but im sure weve seen and heard enough of the BK bull now. I say kenwright out! Start with banners taxi for kenwright!! Kenwright your time is up! Time to go Bill! COYB
Ciarán McGlone
40   Posted 13/08/2009 at 09:15:55

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"but fans of every other club have mainly admiration and often envy for Everton."

The grass is always greener I suppose..but then again, they don’t have to put up with it.
Dave Wilson
41   Posted 13/08/2009 at 09:23:00

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Dear me...

Please, please, save us from these "Realists"!

"Bill's only crime is he doesn’t have any money." — WTF does that mean? I’m scared of heights so guess what? I wont be applying for any window-cleaning jobs in the foreseeable...

Having the financial muscle to back your manager is prerequisite for the post of a Premier League Chairman, Kenwright knew this, so why the fuck did he Buy the club? Did he only realise he was skint afterwards?

Please don’t give me the 'Agent Johnson' nonsense — Agent Johnson didn’t stab Gregg in the back — and let's not put the Kings Dock down to lack of funds, we lost the Kings Dock due to Kenwright's fuckaroundary — Gregg could have delivered.

As for Kenwright turning down £30 million... LOL! We’ve been offered £20 million for Lescott — which we may well STILL end up taking — and had an inquiry for Vaughan. Only a complete idiot would believe we were actually offered £8 million for Saha.

The ony reason we haven't sold so far is because, under BK’s stewardship, we have one of the most threadbare squads in the league and, just as last season, we would have to kick off this campaign without actually having enough senior pros.

Three wise men from the south have all come on here and told TM he isn't living in the "real" world. If living in the "real" world means that you believe Kenwright wasn't responsible for the Kings Dock, Kenwright hasn't blatantly and consistently lied to the fans, DK really is the only option, or that despite the Sky windfall and almost breaking even in the transfer market, the club's debt hasn’t quadrupled — then you're welcome to it.

Another thing: who gives a flying fuck what a bunch of Reading or Palace fans think? Mancs and RS have gone beyond laughing at us, they actually feel sorry for us... and Moyes.

Alan Williams, Alan Kirwin and Neil Pearce, you are cordially invited to the REAL real world. It's easy to find boys, you just need to take the blinkers off.

Ciarán McGlone
42   Posted 13/08/2009 at 10:44:10

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Your turn to be the pantomine villian Dave........
Dave Wilson
43   Posted 13/08/2009 at 10:53:07

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Thats ok, Ciaran. Having a limited vocabulary has its merits, so if your stalker shows up, I won't know what he’s accusing me of.
Guy Hastings
44   Posted 13/08/2009 at 11:19:52

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’Evertonians are fast becoming the most placid, apathetic, easy-to-please football supporters anywhere in the world.’

Not while White Hart Lane is still standing. Every year it’s going to be "Spurs’ year" after they splash cash on anything that moves (and in the case of half their buys can’t even do that) - whether it’s Jol, Venables, Redknapp. Then the season starts and within a couple of games it’s obvious that, just like every season since 1961, it’s not going to be Spurs’ year at all.

As for Citeh, for all their moolah, they’ll do nothing this year either. Yes, a couple of signings would be very nice but the DEFCOM 1 hysteria that gets posted on here at times by the usual suspects is getting beyond parody.

Neil Pearse
45   Posted 13/08/2009 at 11:31:56

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Dave, one of those I know who has so much praise for our club is a lifelong Mancunian United supporter. And if any Liverpool fans are laughing at our owners and financial situation - well, I guess they can’t be paying much attention to their own club.

And Portsmouth and West Ham are selling and they don’t have big enough squads either Dave. But I know you’d prefer their owners, wouldn’t you?

The reality is that we are all disappointed that we have not bought a couple more players. But most of us aren’t hysterically screaming that we have the worst owner in the Premiership, are the laughing stock of the league, and are on the brink of disaster. Because we don’t and we aren’t.
Richard Jones
46   Posted 13/08/2009 at 12:12:03

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Yes, I will be upset if Lescott goes, Neil, particularly if he goes too late to be replaced, as I think this was the plan all along. You are indeed clever to have pre-empted this, you really are one step ahead of me; shame you're not one step ahead of your Blue Bill.

As for Kirkby, can you just remind me why it's your second-best option? — just list the benefits for Everton.
Tony Marsh
47   Posted 13/08/2009 at 12:09:39

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Kevin Sparke, if the majority of Evertonians aren't easily duped and most Evertonians are against Kirkby, then, by your own statement, you call the Everton board liars. You see, Kev, after the vote for Kirkby, the club came out and said, "The majority YES voters have won the day; Kirkby here we come". Are you suggesting Kewnright got the go-ahead with a minority decision?

In my humble opinion, the decision to move to Kirkby has been taken away from BK by his paymasters. WHY would any sane Evertonian give this move the nod if he wasn't being forced to? It doesn't add up.

I want Everton to win every game we play but something drastic needs to happen for a change to occur. Carrying on in this manner for a few more years will defo kill us off even before we get a chance to play in the Tescodome. That's what I mean by the 5-0 comment. We need an Earthquake-type disaster to wake every one up.
Neil Pearse
48   Posted 13/08/2009 at 12:18:24

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You really are a fantasist aren’t you Rich? So that clever Mr Kenwright has deliberately arranged it with Man City so that Lescott is sold on the last day of the window and then he doesn’t have to replace him and can keep the money. Just ignore the known facts that City have basically sounded out Upson on the basis that they fear they won’t get Lescott. When according to you they’ve already basically agreed with Kenwright that we will sell Joleon - but only on the last day of the window.

Do you hate Kenwright so much that you are willing to make up and believe this kind of nonsense? You need help.

On Kirkby, if you could read Rich you would seen the arguments a million times from me that Kirkby will generate more revenues for the club and make us more attractive to a new richer owner to replace Kenwright. I am not in love with it either, but what’s your plan Rich to get us more money?
Dave Wilson
49   Posted 13/08/2009 at 12:12:50

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More realism, Neil?

The Mancs can fill any position with a top class player, when RS wanted a new right back, they went out and paid £19 million for one; we on the other hand, were busy getting fucked off by a championship side for a player who has never faced a top opponent in his life... and you don't think they are laughing?

RS WILL build Stanley Park, Man U Will be playing in front of 80,000 and City will have people fighting for tickets to see the worlds finest... we'll be off to Kirkby.

When an Evertonian comes on and lists the fuck ups made by this Chairman — I noticed you don't actually contest those — and we have to listen to the "realist" telling him to "get real", it kinda pisses me off.

Don't you get it? He lives in the real world. He puts up with RS mocking our transfer shambles, he listens to the Mancs swamping radio phone-ins taking the piss out of the once mighty Everton. When he says we are a laughing stock, it's because he gets fucking laughed at.

The fact that you want to compare the mighty Everton to Portsmouth clearly Illustrates Just how far away from the real world — the blissfully ignorant one you "realists" inhabit —actually is.

Realist? Don't you mean the "mustn’t grumble" brigade ?

Richard Jones
50   Posted 13/08/2009 at 12:57:07

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Can you remind me where these extra revenues are coming from Neil, you've still not given me figures or guarantees.
Neil Pearse
51   Posted 13/08/2009 at 12:58:58

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Dave, all you just said in that rant was: we are poorer as a club than Man Utd and Liverpool and now City, and that you are very mad and upset about it.

Okay. All of us I am sure that one day, in the right way, we will be able to challenge again at the Man U / Liverpool level. But we just aren’t hysterical about it every day, and we live in the real world of where we actually are now. And actually try to think about how we might get back there. What’s your plan?
Neil Pearse
52   Posted 13/08/2009 at 13:05:16

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And on Portsmouth and West Ham Dave - I agree with you, we are in a far better situation than they are. Kenwright has done a much better job for our club than their owners have done for theirs.

I just think it is a fair question to ask: which of the current owners of Premiership clubs would be clearly preferable to our own? Which ones would you go for Dave?

I don’t think it’s a very long list at all, and there are all the obvious shockers who have really got their clubs in trouble. Personally I don’t want a Chelsea or Man City situation which compeltely changes our club. Hicks and Gillet have been a farce and are simply waiting to sell up when the credit crunch lifts. Even Randy Lerner now is not looking so good. (Villa fans are apparently joking that O’Neil needs a laxative because he can’t spend a penny.)

No doubt you think there is some wonderful fantasy owner being stopped from taking us over by Kenwright. If being a realist is not believing in such fairy tales, then sign me up.
Trevor Williams
53   Posted 13/08/2009 at 13:16:16

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Lescott the disloyal tosser???

The same lescott who left Wolves when he was in contract? He was ok then wasn't he?

We WILL sell him, be assured of that.

Then we will buy another player, but obviously we can't bid for anyone under contract as that would be so wrong and we have never done that.
Dave Wilson
54   Posted 13/08/2009 at 13:06:58

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I wasn't merely pointing out who has more money to spend than us, otherwise the list would have been 6 times longer and would have included clubs like Hull. I’d have also said that nearly all of them have overtaken us on Kenwright's watch.

I was pointing out that you and the other "realists" live in blissful ignorance and have no right to tell Evertonians to come into the real world.

Everton is more than a website hobby.
Neil Pearse
55   Posted 13/08/2009 at 13:14:55

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Don’t be an idiot Rich. Obviously you can’t add up as well as not being able to read. Even if you only assume we will get the same average gates (I don’t), we will have higher prices and more corporate income. So higher revenues.

We have been over this time after time. You disagree. I know. You believe that if we go to Kirkby our attendances will fall dramatically and we will end up in the Championship or worse. I just don’t agree with you Rich. We know this. So why keep asking the same questions?

And once more Rich: how else do YOU think we are going to get higher revenues and a new owner? THAT is a question that has never been answered.
Neil Pearse
56   Posted 13/08/2009 at 13:19:57

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Hull have overtaken us Dave? When did that happen?
Richard Osborne
57   Posted 13/08/2009 at 13:16:05

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Tony/ Dave Linch

I don’t neccessarily disagree with some of what you are saying, I disagree with your self-obsessed ramblings and the way you seem to think that you prophesised everything bad that happens to EFC as if you were the first to realise it.

You ram your inane drivel down the throats of, I would assume, pretty intelligent Evertonians. You call them names and belittle anyone with an opposing opinion.

So no, Tony, I don’t wear elbow patches on my jackets (although that did make me laugh!) and I do realise that something is ultimately wrong with EFC. However, I don’t profess to have a solution then fail to do anything proactive to bring about change. You even had the temerity to lie about involvement with KEIOC! Sorry Tony, what is that ’L’ word you use to describe Bill Kenwright?

You go about this in completely the wrong way. If you tried reasoning and intelligently discussing your view points with others on this site, you would find the responses much less vitriolic. I don’t know, perhaps you do it on purpose to get a rise out of everyone.

Either way, last time I checked.......YOU’RE STILL JUST AN INTERNET CRANK.
Neil Pearse
58   Posted 13/08/2009 at 13:31:03

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And Dave, you should know better than to throw around slurs about others’ Evertonian credentials like "website hobby".

My father was born within a stone’s throw of Goodison, I was born in Maghull, and I have been passionately following the club for 45 years since I can remember anything. Alan Ball was my first hero and I have never got over it.

I assume we are all Evertonians on this site or we wouldn’t be bothering to be here.
Marco Buonfiglio
59   Posted 13/08/2009 at 13:35:33

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"It’s all going off here on ToffeeWeb and once more Evertonians up and down the country are at each others cyber-throats. Just like I predicted in early July, no players in, players out and bullshit by the bucket load from the club... Don’t ye just love it?"

Yes, Tony, I rather suspect you do ...
Tony Marsh
60   Posted 13/08/2009 at 13:47:48

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Oh dear, Ricky Oz, what are you doing?
La, Please forgive me if I have got this wrong but didn't you call me a Bellend the other day for no reason other than you disagreed with me?? YES that's right — you named-called me and I have never crossed swords with you before on here.

Practise what you preach, Ricky Boy. No wonder the club's fucked up with so many fans who won't take responsibility for their actions supporting it...
Alan Kirwin
61   Posted 13/08/2009 at 13:43:34

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I’m struggling to understand where I currently live has to do with anything. If you ever see Arundel, you’ll see why I live here. I left Liverpool during Thatcher’s Britain, found plenty of work elsewhere, married, kids, bla, bla, bla. If living in Walton is the only test of fanatic then we are in trouble.

As for Liverpool spending £18m on a right-back, they get an average of 10,000 fans a game more than we do, they have a large waiting list for season tickets and a world-wide fan base as a result of huge success during the 70s and 80s, including 5 European Cup/CLs. The owners of Liverpool haven't put a carrot into the club. Oh yes, they were welcomed as the rich benefactors to take the club to the next level. Ha, ha, ha.... ring any bells boys?

So according to the 3 northern malcontents (apparently geography is important), it’s irrelevant how everyone else sees Everton, regardless of their knowledge or experience within the game. Everybody is wrong except really pissed off fans who live in Walton. I see.

Asylum, lunatics, etc. Neil et al, you really are wasting your breath. You have no right to be the remotest bit proud or satisfied with where we are as a club. How very dare you sir! You should be angry, really angry, fucking angry, you should be spouting froth and bile all over any fans who profess to be in the slightest bit contented that the team with the 9th highest attendances & turnover and regular relegation fighters a decade ago are now regular top 6.

What are you on Neil? Why aren’t you spitting venom & personal insults at Kenwright. This lying deceiving bastard has overseen our most successful period for 20 years, and you just sit there and take it. And you call yourself a fan Neil?

It’s bollocks. No, it’s fucking bollocks. No, it’s total shitey fucking bollocks. It’s....

Ah, 2-o-clock, time for a game of tennis, followed by some delightfully chilled wine and discussion about the Ashes and Saturday’s game. Care to join me Ciaran? :)

Alan Kirwin
62   Posted 13/08/2009 at 13:58:33

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Tony - I have to give it to you mate, you take stick so magnificently. I didn’t see Ricky’s insult, but your repost above had me pissing myself. Good on you.
Alan Kirwin
63   Posted 13/08/2009 at 14:01:38

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I note that normal service has resumed with young Mr Wilson. Pity.

Would love to debate the claim that Everton have been overtaken by Hull, but it’s almost impossible to type anything because I just can’t stop laughing.

This just gets funnier & more bizarre by the minute. Keep it coming chaps. What next, relegation, administration and purchase by Ken Bates? overtaken by Reading? or maybe Denis Wise as Director of Confrontation? or perhaps we will just do a Norwich (who must be bigger than us by now?) and slide into ignominy. The potential is endless.

What’s that French word for moth? oh yes, mirth. The mirth balls are flying around here like crazy. Splendid stuff.

Anyway must dash, more later surely...
Dave Wilson
64   Posted 13/08/2009 at 14:05:42

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apologies, I obviously wasnt very clear, That wasn’t what I meant, I was not questioning your credentials, I was enhancing some body else’s, I feel really pissed that you can tell a passionate Evertonian to get into the real world, when the guys obviously eats sleeps and drinks Everton, I felt you guys were dismissing his thoughts as if coming on here was some sort of hobby for him.
That you come on and argue so passionately tells me all I need to know.
Dave Wilson
65   Posted 13/08/2009 at 14:15:27

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I see Coco Kirwin has replied to what he thinks he read, rather than what was wrote again . . .I tell you that lambrusco can be lethal

When I say Hull have more money to spend on players than we do I say it because its fact, They are able to offer players - Owen - the sort of wages Everton players can only dream of, They have spent more than us and intend to carry on spending more than us. No amount of forced manic mirth from Coco can change that

Colin Potter
66   Posted 13/08/2009 at 14:20:47

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I would like to thank Ciaran McGlone, Dave Wilson, and especially Tony Marsh, for putting my points of view over, very succinctly. Very good posts they were!!!
Neil Pearse
67   Posted 13/08/2009 at 14:36:03

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Apology accepted of course Dave. It really is all going off on here now! Pre-season tension I suppose. Thank God Saturday is close and we might have some actual FOOTBALL to argue about....
Ciarán McGlone
68   Posted 13/08/2009 at 14:44:26

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Haha...I took a step back from this one...and still got dragged into it..

No Tennis, Vino or Cricket for me Alan...

Now - a spot of Salmon fishing, a nice glass of Redbreast, and a debate about the demise of Antrim hurling is something I could get on board with...
Dave Wilson
69   Posted 13/08/2009 at 14:42:37

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Cheers Neil

Right : about 5 years ago the papers were full of speculation about Rooney leaving our club - just like lescot today

The club were acutely aware of the interest other clubs were showing in Rooney and stated Rooney wast for sale - very much like Lescot

Shortly before the window closed Rooney - like Lescot submitted a transfer request

At the death, Kenwright sat down with Man U and did the deal, leaving Moyes no chance to spend any of the money.

I think you really oughta take Kenrights previous into consideration before you dismiss Rich Jones as a fantasist
Matthew Mackey
70   Posted 13/08/2009 at 16:07:21

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I’m frustrated, but nowhere near as frustrated as TM. Try sex Tony, it relieves the tension sometimes mate.

Yes it has been another summer of mis-hits and media bollox, but retaining the majority, if not all of the first team squad, is sometimes better then just bringing in anything that moves (the ’Arry fukin Redknapp approach to management)

The one thing that infuriates me more than anything is our (lack of) ability to tie up a transfer deal in quick time. In this ultra competitive age of football you have to be quick off the mark to get what you want/need before the vultures take the prize away from you. Take for example the Kyle Naughton affair where the lad initially wanted to join us. OK, Sheff Utd stabbed us in the back, but surely we could have gone that extra mile to keep that wanker Redknapp out. Surely we could have offered just a little bit more instead of sticking hard fast to our "principles" of not paying over the odds. Surely in this age where a million quid is fuk all in PL football we could have done something to make sure the player came to us.

Other examples of this are Fabian Delph (Leeds), Ramous Elm (Swedish lad) and now possibly Sendeross. Moyes was obviously an admirer of Delph who he could have taken under his wing and over a couple of years made into a class act, but he dithered, he "ummmd" and "arrrd" (should I or shouldn’t I?) and then before you know it, he’s gone to one of our main competitors Villa. And as for Sendeross, why is it taking so fukin long to tie up the deal? Again, is Moyes and the backroom boys quibbling over a couple of grand or something? I don’t know, but surely he should have been on board by now if, as we are led to believe, negotiations have been going on all the time. How much time does it take to tie up a deal for a player the likes of Sendeross? That’s what gets me frustrated.

Even though we are apparently broke, we have to stop quibbling over the small print in these transfer negotiations and be prepared to take a little more risk, otherwise we will get gazumped every time by the likes of that tosser in North London and end up going backwards.
Richard Osborne
71   Posted 13/08/2009 at 16:50:52

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Tony, I did call YOU a bellend, that is correct and I don’t apologise for it. I reserve my criticisms and comments for individuals, I don’t tarnish everyone with the same brush. That would just be stupid and narrow-minded. The actions of an internet crank, if you will.
Richard Jones
72   Posted 13/08/2009 at 16:40:13

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Neil, in the past you have rather astonishingly accused me of personally abusing you, because I've been rather tongue-in-cheek with my discription of how naive I think you’ve been; now you resort to name calling. I'll take it as a sign that you're getting battered again, won't produce figures, and — as Dave points out — you don't need to be a conspiracy theorist to come to my conclusion; just look back in the past. You see, Neil, I believe the statement "Here at Everton we do things a certain way" to mean something totally different to you.
Kevin Hudson
73   Posted 13/08/2009 at 16:31:56

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Another great piece fella. Thought-provoking, and setting off a good debate as ever. I have to admit that I’m starting to despair at the lack of signings; presumably two or three will be rushed through the door on deadline day, and take 3 feckin’ months to settle in, as they’ve had no pre-season (with us).

I do increasingly share the fear that we are standing still, while others are marching forward. You’d think after the miracles we’ve performed in recent seasons, we would naturally be looking to evolve. I’m always inclined to trust the manager, but it does appear evident to many, the chairman patently isn’t doing enough.

But hey, this wouldn’t be Everton without pessimistic despair heralding a new season!!!

Oh, and Dave..

Just because I pulled your tag-team partner up twice doesn’t make me his stalker. How many times a week do you go after Alan Kirwan et al? See the hypocrisy?? Along with Sneerin’ McGlone, you’re injudiciously selective.

And don’t drag me into a thread that I haven’t even availed myself of yet, let alone contributed to.... Pah-thetic !!!
Alan Kirwin
74   Posted 13/08/2009 at 17:15:11

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You’re at it again Wilson. That epiphany of yours didn’t last long did it?

This forum is about opinions. Feel free to deconstruct the views of others, or in your case, slag off. But don’t confuse the issue with the person. You’re lapsing towards ignorant buffoonery again with your personal approach.

Try taking a leaf out of Ciaran’s book. He can attack as viciously as anybody on here, although that isn’t really the point of TW, but he is also able to attack the opinion rather than the person. You have an unerring desire to do the opposite.

Michael Kenrick, you may, in the interests of debate and reduced boredom, choose to nuke the registrations of any member who simply throws personal insults around. Whoever that may be. I think that’s fair, don’t you?
Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
75   Posted 13/08/2009 at 17:19:24

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I gotta smile... Tony Marsh does of course say some quite outrageous things but the thread of responses that invariably follows makes hugely entertaining reading, and this one is no exception.

Dave Wilson, I particularly liked your 09:23 post but there are plenty of crackers from the other "usual suspects" on either side of the aisle who make it so entertaining.

However, I do feel required to show Mr Richard Osbourne a yellow card for lowering the standard by indulging in name-calling, which we do not tolerate. "Bellend" is unacceptable, and requires an apology please.

"Internet crank" is also somewhat disingenuous as it falls in the "shot the messenger" category. The internet is merely the wonderful tool by which these Evertonians can, via this website, indulge in such excellent back and forth. To start labeling the participants as "internet cranks" is a poor attempt to devalue the views expressed by others and falsely elevate the importance of one’s own perspective.

Pack it in, Richard. Please play nice, ya hear!
Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
76   Posted 13/08/2009 at 17:42:06

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Alan, I think our posts were being composed simultaneously... so to address your concern, I presume it is the use of "Coco" as a nickname applied by Mr Wilson that has raised your hackles.

I scanned Dave’s posts for other offensive material and could find none, but I remain receptive to egregious examples of personal abuse: it would be great to have a reason to silence him, wouldn’t it?

Coco... I heard the other day that Mme Chanel was so named after her dog. We used to have a lovely dog called Coco — she was a Doberman who would grab on to articles of interest with her teeth and shake the living daylights out of them... but I digress.

If Mr Wilson’s reference is not to dogs but to clowns then you are probably right: I really should take action. You know, he can't even spell 'Lescot' [sic] correctly, and has no idea how to use apostrophes... now that really annoys me.
James Boden
77   Posted 13/08/2009 at 18:15:26

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Why anyone is still defending Kenwright is beyond me. Aren’t shirt sales up by 200%? Did we not make any money from finishing 5th and being on tele 17 times? Did we not make any money for every round we progressed of the Fa Cup? Did we not make money for every televised game in the cup? Did we not make any money for playing at Wembley twice? Did we not make any money for selling Andy Johnson and James Mcfadden? Did we not make any money for season ticket sales?

But I am forgetting we are skint because Blue Bill said so. Remember he is just 1 of us and is totally helpless.

And finally how anyone could possibly defend Lescott is quite insulting. This bloke is a multi millionaire for fucksake someone who is deeply struggling to keep a roof over his head. Every bit of stick he ultimately gets from us he will deserve.

Shane Corcoran
78   Posted 13/08/2009 at 19:16:10

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Ciaran, what about the state of Cavan football? I’m bored with the rest.
Dave Wilson
79   Posted 13/08/2009 at 18:47:14

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Oh dear... Was that that really an appeal by Kirwin to Michael to silence me, by waving an an imaginary red card? That red card may just as well be a white flag, game over, I’m out.

I have no desire to take part in a game where the school yard bully goes running to Miss, at the first sign of him getting a taste of his own.

Michael, my English is crap, but until I started to type, I thought a comma was a state of unconsciousness. And yes, my spelling leaves a lot to be desired too, this is compounded by the fact that I usually have but a few seconds to type my post.. . my typing isnt up to much either

Bear with me, I’m improving.

Neil Pearse
80   Posted 13/08/2009 at 20:57:12

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Richard, let me be honest mate: you are the only ’contributor’ to Toffeeweb that I have absolutely no time for.

You are completely humourless, never contribute anything by way of argument, and your stock in trade is simply to make sly mean comments, and repeat the same questions over and over again, pretending like a child that you still are awaiting the answers.

I should ignore you since you are irrelevant, but somehow you just get my back up every time with your silly and repetitive posts. I will try harder.
Richard Osborne
81   Posted 13/08/2009 at 21:02:39

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OK Michael, I’ll apologise for the insult, I directed at Tony - Tony, if you are reading, I’m sorry, I guess I got carried away in the heat of the debate.

However (didn’t you just know that was coming??), I also believe Tony should be taken to task regarding his constant labelling of Evertonians with differing opinions to his, as ’stupid’ or some other derogative.

Michael, you can’t have one rule for one etc.....
Neil Pearse
82   Posted 13/08/2009 at 21:03:56

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Oh Richard, and I do my best to answer your questions, as I have done yet again on this thread. As again on this thread, you never answer a single question I put to you. It is pointless to ’argue’ with such a person - in fact there is no argument, because you won’t engage in any.

I know you loathe Kenwright with all your being and hate the idea of Kirkby with a passion. What are you in favour of that might take our club forward? I have absolutely no idea. I’ve asked you dozens of times, but you have never yet given any answer.

You could tell me now, but otherwise I don’t see any point continuing to respond to you. There have to be two sides to an argument.
Dave Brierley
83   Posted 13/08/2009 at 20:47:12

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Marshy really is box office and I for one have found this thread more entertaining than anything related to real football.

Just loved the notion by Matthew Mackey that to relieve his frustration and tension Tony should try sex. What a horrible thought. Can you imagine in the unlikely event that he could find some poor unfortunate victim, the criticism they would leave themselves open to after a long, hard shag (or in Tony’s opinion a soft, short excuse for sex, totally the other party’s fault).

Marshy, you're priceless. Don’t ever let a positive thought hit your keyboard.
Richard Osborne
84   Posted 13/08/2009 at 21:21:03

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Ooooof!! How’d ya like them apples Kenrick?!!!
Richard Jones
85   Posted 13/08/2009 at 22:57:20

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Suits me, Neil. My 4-year-old boy is more street-wise than you. You are a fool of the highest order; people like you will destroy this club, not Kenwright, because you have created the platform for him to do so. Well done!!
Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
86   Posted 13/08/2009 at 23:00:41

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I’m getting confused... I think Neil P is after Richard J but Richard O may be feeling collateral damage... or was there some other apples I missed falling on my head?

But Richard Jones, we can’t have you calling someone "a fool of the highest order" can we? That’s just not on. And I think for the sake of everyone’s sanity we should have a moratorium on claiming that any fans are in the process of "destroying the club". The club is not destroyed and we are all supposed to be Evertonians, so let’s drop that one please. (And that includes you, Tony Marsh and your increasingly ridiculous "predictions").

Marco Buonfiglio
87   Posted 13/08/2009 at 23:56:02

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To sum up, what result are we looking for tomorrow? Home win?
Neil Pearse
88   Posted 14/08/2009 at 08:52:48

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Sorry Richard O if you got any collateral damage. Certainly nothing directed at you. And for my part Michael don’t worry about Richard J. He is simply a coward who throws (the same) stones from a distance over and over again, and, unlike you and many others I have argued with on here, is never prepared to state or defend what he himself believes in, or to respond to a single question of him that I have ever asked. We move on.
Ciarán McGlone
89   Posted 14/08/2009 at 09:03:58

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Well I never... More personal insults, Kevin..

Good debating technique. Grow up.
Richard Jones
90   Posted 14/08/2009 at 11:05:20

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Michael, I think I was the one called an idiot first not that I’m whinging about it, it’s just that I know how sensitive Neil is over personal abuse. That said, I will refrain if afforded the same by Neil. I stand by my statement that those backing Bill and Kirkby will if not destroy, seriously harm the club. No Apologies.
Tony Williams
91   Posted 14/08/2009 at 15:57:34

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Tony, you predict many things, that's why some of them invariably end up correct.

This "I told you so post" from a man who last season gave us -

"This is the sad reality of it all. There is no chance whatsoever that the squad we have now can compete to the same standard as last season. It’s common sense and only a blind fool would disagree" and

"For instance, Louis Saha is not really a signing is he? For all we know he may never kick a ball again" and

"Everton have become a mid-table outfit virtually overnight thanks to the Moyes-Kenwright combination. It’s these two men who run the club and the team and both the club and the team are a shambolic disgrace" and

"Now that Man City have hit the jackpot, Spurs have money as well as Pompey and Villa, we are now facing the grim reality of forever being also-rans and it’s all down to Kenwright" and

"We are now virtually at full strength so please don’t say things will change once Pienaar is back" and

"Steve Round as coach... WHO the Fuck is He?" and

"Moyes is no longer worthy of the job as Everton manager and the word "coward" should be replaced with Grade A Shithouse" and

"Moyes is a dud. A man who has nowhere left to go at this club. The sooner the Moyes era is put to bed the better as many of us will start to walk if he carries on with this nonsense" and

"When I first got the news in the summer that we had signed Louis Saha, I couldn’t believe Moyes was so stupid. Now I do believe Moyes is so stupid. Saha is finished at this level and has been for years now" and

"Quite simply, we are not good enough for this league any more. We can argue all day about the contributing factors that have turned Moyes’s team into the laughing stock of the Premier League but I look no further than the man himself: David Moyes" and

"If the unthinkable did happen and we were relegated, does anyone think the bunch of wimps Moyes has assembled as a squad will be able to fight their way out of the Championship"

Sorry this went on so long, it’s just that there was so many threads strarted by Tony when we were doing poorly then they sort of disappeared when we started remembering to be a football team.

Many predictions and many points of view, the exact same this season; however, instead of predicting things, I prefer to discuss things that have occurred already as the facts are there to see and can be discussed, non of this "I told you I was right" malarkey.

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