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Shambolic Surrender

By Tony Marsh :  16/08/2009 :  Comments (116) :
The spark has gone from the David Moyes persona... if there ever was a spark. Moyes looks like —and gives the impression of being a dead man walking. His team has the same look and feel also.

I won't make any predictions as to what will unfold this season but let me just say that the display yesterday will haunt us for a long time to come. My worry is we will not be able to recover from such a mauling in time for next week's trip to Burnley. I don't give a toss about the Europa League/Cup game this week game as it's something this tiny squad can ill-afford to be part of.

What the fuck was Moyes doing, playing Osman and Hibbert together again on the right-hand side?Did Dopey Dave learn nothing from the FA Cup Final? We basically started with 9 men against Arsenal because Hibbert and Osman are that shite. I still can't believe Osman is a footballer — I know kids in Sunday League pub sides that have more about them than this pathetic excuse of a player.

David Moyes — the brightest young manager in the game? — my arse! As I said last season, all the good mangers have got Moyes sussed out big time. The way we set up in games is a fucking disgrace — only a fool would keep faith in some of these players and the tactics we employ. The style of football is so awful on the eye at times, my heart bleeds.

I have never before seen such a shocking display from an Everton side on the fist day of a new season — and I have seen some crap over the years. "Shithpuses" is too nice a word to describe those players yesterday... every one of them should give up their wages for the week and refund the fans who pay them.

I can't say I didn't see it coming as I made the 5-0 quote during the week — who could've know how close that was to becoming reality? It's now plain to see that the Lescott saga and the way it's been handled is affecting morale. Let the player go and let's move on.

Even the mighty Man Utd had to give in to Madrid over Ronaldo in the end as the money was too good to turn down. £20 million for Lescott is good business seeing as the lad's heart is not in the club any more. Move him tomorrow and get rid of the stench.

I sense there is now a kind of NFI (Not Fucking Interested) syndrome taking hold of our fans. I know some real diehards who can't be arsed any more and I don't blame them. I gave up my Burnley tickets during the week as I to start to be come gripped by NFI...

If a twat like Kenwright can keep shafting the fans and still be backed by many of them, then there is no future for this club. I can't believe how Moyes goes along with it all. Why can't Davey Boy come out and put the fans out of their misery?

"We have no money to spend and no players will be coming in. We have to go with what we have got. Sorry... but that's the truth."

I think we could all handle that a lot better than the smoke and mirrors bullshit we are fed. Time to step up, Davey, and do some explaining — even if it means upsetting Bumchum Billy.

I am making a stand myself this season: if Osman and Hibbert keep getting picked, I am throwing in the towel as it's an insult to my intelligence. I will refuse to be treated with such contempt any longer by a manager and chairman who haven't got a clue. The fans are the lifeblood at any club and the poor souls who support Everton deserve better than this shite.

The deadwood needs replacing and, if we must, let's start playing the kids. They can't be any worse than some of that shower out there at present can they? Rodwell is again being overlooked and this lad is the bollocks as far as I am concerned — what does it take to get in ahead of Osman???

Don't be suprised if Jack wants away soon... Could you put up with being overlooked in midfield for a Sam Dingle look-alike? Osman, please fuck off to Division 3 where you belong.

Make no mistake about it — yesterday's defeat to Arsenal is one of, if not the worst defeat in Everton's proud history. If this is the sign of things to come, will the fans still be on board for the long season ahead? Or will they turn on Bill Kenwright at long last?

Something's got to give and Moyes could even walk — he would do if he had any balls.

Reader Comments

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Marco Buonfiglio
1   Posted 15/08/2009 at 18:07:03

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Tony Marsh: to quote yer man Julian Cope, "World, shut my mouth." Don't know how you did that, but congratulations. 6-1, but at least you got the five-goal margin right. Fair play to you. You must be ecstatic. Bit despondent myself, but now that the magical scoreline has happened, you're going to unveil your magical solution.... Aren't you?

Aren't you?

Aren't you?

Apologia Pro Sua Vita Evertonia

John Martin
2   Posted 16/08/2009 at 18:28:33

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There isn't an Everton fan around that thinks Osman & Hibbert should be playing. Sadly the only person who can affect their selection is David Moyes. And for some reason he keeps picking them.

I’ve just watched Spurs beat Liverpool; even ignoring they’ve had money to spend as usual, it was the attitude that impressed me the most. They didn't play with fear against a top 4 side they went at them believing they could beat them.

We played Arsenal who may be the most attractive of the top 4 but they are the weakest. But as usual Moyes v top 4 means defensive and hoping for a one-nil with a goal from a free kick or corner. Zero creativity no pace no power.

Only Moyes can change this but he sits back doing nothing. Rodwell is the future of our midfield he should be in alongside Neville to do his donkey work until we get somebody better suited to the role and allow Rodwell to try and dictate our play. If this means leaving out Cahill or Fellainin so be it . But Moyes is loath to play him and sticks with players who are inferior. Which is why for the most part we are a boring side.

Paul Conatzer
3   Posted 16/08/2009 at 18:35:09

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For Evertonians of a certain generation (that’s my way of saying those with a bit of age on them), we are never going to be pleased with Moyes’s tendency to think defensively. After all, we remember all the skill that those Everton teams had. But, they also had steel.

But, on yesterday’s performance, I’m wondering if they even have steel. Pienaar looked very good in the middle for South Africa in the Confederations Cup, why not move him there until Arteta returns? Because we have no threat on the right, teams know if they slow him down, they blunt what creativity we have. Why not give him more room to operate?

Colin Malone
4   Posted 16/08/2009 at 18:30:40

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Tony. Osman is not an out-and-out winger. The only way he gets out of jail in that position is when Cahill plays behind the front man and comes back and supports Osman.

Fellaini just stays up front most of the game, as he did in the Cup Final, which leaves Osmam totally isolated. Take your radar off Osman and look at our €15million man — he's crap.
Jay Woods
5   Posted 16/08/2009 at 18:44:25

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Tony, I find myself more or less agreeing 100% with your rant.

What annoys the fuck out of me more than mere words can express is how the hell Moyes could fork out £15 million for that afro-topped totem pole but not go for one of his more illustrious team mates at Liege last summer, for instance, Defour? Ah, but that would mean we’d have creativity, something that Moyes eschews in favour of his fucking awful hoofball game.

And as for it being a de facto 9-man team, I agree; I would personally head the queue if they wanted a volunteer to literally horse-whip Osman and Hibbert out of the club and along County Road.
Colin Potter
6   Posted 16/08/2009 at 18:26:47

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100% spot on, Tony. What the hell was Moyes thinking of playing Lescott, can’t he get it into his head? He doesn’t want to play for us anymore!! It’s not so hard to understand, surely. Lescott's body language was just not right from the start.

Why is he being so bloody minded, Moyes? Does he really think he's running things? Because he isn’t, I would like to see him lay into that two-bit actor and con-man, and tell him what a twat he is to the fans and this once great club of ours; unfortunately I don’t think he has the bottle.

God help us if Moyes doesn’t bring in someone bloody quick, and stop his dithering, because this whole farce is alienating a lot of very loyal fans.

Peter Corcoran
7   Posted 16/08/2009 at 18:47:07

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You cannot pick on only these two players for that defeat — it is Moyes's fault.

Having said that, if I had £100,000 for every time Hibbert jumped or headed the ball I would still be poor.
James Boden
8   Posted 16/08/2009 at 18:58:27

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If only the club could prove you wrong Tony. I have gone on strike from either watching them in the stands or on tele until we sign someone and not only that I refuse to buy the shirt again. £57 quid for my shirt with Fellaini on the back. That is me done giving anymore money to that knobhead. And as far as I am concerned Moyes is a shitbag too.
Anthony O'Sullivan
9   Posted 16/08/2009 at 19:30:01

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Tony you must have been delighted with the result. Finally after years of posting on ToffeeWeb you get your chance to come on and make sure you tell us all "I told you so"!

It's just a pity you had to make statements like Moyes doesn't have a clue (even though last week you praised him).

And then saying that the 6-1 defeat was the worst in our history!! It's not even our worst result against Arsenal remember when they beat us 7-1 !

I can't wait until you finally decide to become and NFI fan, you have been promising this for a long time but have never stuck to your word. If Bill had said it you would call him a liar but I'm not like you.
Paul Saleh
10   Posted 16/08/2009 at 19:29:41

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The title of this article says it all, it's just a total shambles. It's difficult to pick out anyone with any credit from yesterday. The rumour going round is that signings are due imminently, but why only now?

Our CEO Mr Elstone said as far back as June (1st June ) that money would be made available for strengthening the squad. But I guess that was a load of bollocks too. Every man and his dog knew we needed to sort out the right hand side of the team. p>Tony Marsh has got this one spot on; something needs to happen, I only hope its soon because Kenwright is most definitely past his sell-by date as a chairman and has been for a while — and even he must know now that the time has come to sell up.

Jack Francis
11   Posted 16/08/2009 at 19:40:38

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Come on, I'm sure Tony didn't wish for that scoreline... it's just pure frustration the way our club is being run! — that "what if?" scoreline by Tony! What's gonna happen now? No investment... no wonder!
Ian McDowell
12   Posted 16/08/2009 at 19:46:41

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The worst thing is Tony, I am begging to become one of the NFI fans now, I hardly even bother with looking at transfer news because I know we won't buy anyone, and I am not really interested in the Europa League because I know that our small squad won't be able to handle it.
Mike Homfray
13   Posted 16/08/2009 at 19:54:10

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So are you going to buy the club off BK, then?

The problem is that no-one wants it, and certainly that will stay the same until something is done about the ground.
Dave Lynch
14   Posted 16/08/2009 at 19:52:22

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Paul S.
"The rumour going round is signings are due imminently".
Paul. The signings should have been in place well by now.
Any signings now will stink of either panic or apeasment of the fans.
The whole saga of the close season has been shambolic to say the least.
I honestly want Moyes to walk now. If only to send a message to the board and the fans, to the tune of.
I am not putting up with this shit anymore !
Tony Marsh
15   Posted 16/08/2009 at 19:58:36

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Mike because Goodison Park is such a dump, buying Everton will be a lot cheaper than buying the likes of Villa or Man City. Kenwright could sell for £40 million and still make a shit load of profit. The reduced buying cost would then free up funds for ground redevelopment.
Mike Homfray
16   Posted 16/08/2009 at 15:23:00

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Seems that every time that we do badly in a match, there are two parrot cries, Moyes Out, and Kenwright Out

I want to think about the latter. Kenwright is undoubtedly a keen Everton fan. And compared to most of us, he is very wealthy.But in footballing terms, these days he is on the poor side — it's billionaires not just multi-millionaires who can put the necessary money forward.

So, if we do want the sort of investment seen at other clubs, it does mean a change of owner, and it will also mean overseas investment. No problem there. Only the fact is that there currently aren't any takers — and there won't be unless we leave Goodison. Manchester City are really much the same as us — second club in terms of recent success in a Northern city, huge local support but not so much outside.

Big difference — their ground. Their owner would not have looked twice at them otherwise...

David O'Keefe
17   Posted 16/08/2009 at 20:09:17

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Sorry, Mike. It needs a willing seller, not a new stadium to get this new owner.
Paul Saleh
18   Posted 16/08/2009 at 20:15:45

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Dave L, I agree that signings should have been in place, as to why not then ask bullshit bill. He wont sell until DK is decided, him and his fucking cronies are waiting for a tidy profit before fucking off, He doesn't want the best for the club, he just wants the fucking best for his bank account. I think DK should stand for Departure (of) Kenwright, because he won't go before and he knows we know that.
Gerry Western
19   Posted 16/08/2009 at 20:21:58

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I can understand your anger and frustration I honestly believed that following the FA Cup defeat we’d never have to endure an Osman - Hibbert combination ever again. Have to say as soon as I seen the team selection I’d pretty much resigned myself to a home defeat. However, I’d go further and add Neville’s selection to play in midfield to that also.

He seems to panic and finds it impossible to make a forward pass, can’t/won’t tackle and appears to have an obsession with playing the ball back in the direction of the defence who then indulge him with aimless punts up the park. We often appear disjointed when he plays there and our game loses its shape. If ever we needed a captain’s performance it was yesterday. Why the hell wasn’t he berating his team mates and urging them to respond as you would expect from a captain. The truth is he was bloody awful and in no position to criticize anyone. Personally I cannot see what Neville brings to the midfield. It was a gutless performance collectively.

For me the team selection for our next game must be Fellaini assuming he’s fit and Rodwell in the middle. Cahill just behind Jo or Saha with Neville replacing Hibbert and Gosling in for Osman who’s performance was the most inept I’ve ever seen from anyone in a blue shirt.

Neil Vaughan
20   Posted 16/08/2009 at 20:22:26

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ps Tony...I’m one of those diehards you refer to...NFI anymore.

It’s a dead cert that Sigma will get at least an away goal on Thurs and that’s us out ...make no mistake based on that gutless surrender on Saturday....

Ged Dwyer
21   Posted 16/08/2009 at 20:28:17

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Well the manager of the year did it again. That’s 0-7 1-4 1-4 and now 1-6 v Arsenal. What does it take for the penny to drop that it’s not the Lescott saga or lack of money that’s the main cause, it’s that idiot of a manager David Moyes!
Neil Vaughan
22   Posted 16/08/2009 at 20:30:59

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Well the 48hrs has now expired and still no new players in... LIARS!!!
Jason Broome
23   Posted 16/08/2009 at 20:45:51

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Fair play to you Tony. I have to agree with most of what you have written.

Yesterday we daren’t pull our knickers up after the caning we received from an Arsenal side inferior to the one we beat 2 seasons ago.

Lescott’s head was gone. When he came out of the tunnel he looked like Brian Labone in a red shirt! He can’t be trusted in that position again. However we are a very stupid club. The fact that Taylor is available at around £8 Million is a bargain. But unfortunately yet again we reportedly bid £4 Million (al la Naughton), dither and alert everybody to his availability. I cannot believe what I am witnessing.

Osman has the odd good game, which at this level isn’t good enough. I don’t believe he is as bad as you say, but he isn’t that much better.

Naysmith is a better player than Hibbert. Yet he wasn’t good enough 3 years ago! And why let Jacobsen go? I would of risked Rodwell or Gosling at RB to provide them with much needed experience.

From Krodrup to vd Meyde to Fellaini the torch has been passed. Another fucking white elephant of whom (long term) will do us more favours coming off of the bench than on the pitch!

Fellaini is crap. He might look the business but he sure as hell ain’t the business! So we like his hair and he scores the odd goal... 9 goals = 9 seconds. What else does he fucking do?

He doesn’t have the pace, awareness, aggression or leadership to perform at this level. This boy was NOT scouted for one and a half years. No Chance! Liege took us for a ride due to our desperation to find a suitable replacement for Carsley at the last minute (a player we badly missed yesterday).

Right now we are many things. We are in our 3rd transfer window and we have yet to find Carsley’s successor. We are still awaiting the arrival of a winger with pace. We are 2 years behind where we should be. We had a window of opportunity last year and instead of climbing through it we pressed our noses up against the glass.

The last two years have seen Moyes fuck-up wildly in the transfer market. Gosling is the only one who can hold his head up!

You might laugh at this (and I can’t believe that I am actually writing it) but Fifa, Pro Evolution, Football & Championship Managers all have a few things in common. If you want to be successful you have to have pace, width, the skill to attack and the ability to pass to a team mate. If a ten year old school boy has figured this out, why haven’t we?

Brazil won the World cup on this formula. Chelsea and Arsenal ripped us apart on this formula and the aforementioned games were modeled on those who employ that formula. So why are we still trying to bully teams into playing narrow, one dimensional football? Every team, every time, through the middle, through the middle, (hoof ball it) through the fucking middle!

Enough already! Johnson gave us pace and we hurt teams. Kilbane gave us width of which hurt teams. If we buy 2 quality, wingers with pace… Duh!

Pienaar is as influential for South Africa as Moutinho is for Portugal yet we stick him out on the left. We need Sessegnon (or a like for like) this fortnight or it will be another dullard performance from a bunch of talented players not trusted enough to play talented football.
Colin Malone
24   Posted 16/08/2009 at 20:46:59

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Tony, Fellaini is a yard dog.
Kunal Desai
25   Posted 16/08/2009 at 21:32:32

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Osman and Hibbert!!!!...LOL!! anyone know what Kanchelskis and Earl Barrett are up to these days??!! Let's get these out of their wheelchairs to replace these shits!
Mick Wrende
26   Posted 16/08/2009 at 21:42:29

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I will say it again — if your pre-season buildup is Bury, Blackpool, some pulled together American shite and a second rate Spanish team then you come into the first league game looking like a pub side on their first Sunday morning. And who is responsible for that load of shite — Moyes. This year Lescott, last year his contract, the year before fuck knows what excuse.

At least he could have the decency to turn out a fit side even if several of them are only Championship standard. I want to watch a football playing Everton side not this shower. And who gives a fuck about the NFL.

Gareth Atkinson
27   Posted 16/08/2009 at 21:48:09

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I know Osman and Hibbert are shit but come on the blame cannot lay at these two, we might possibly have come across the worst Brazilian in the history of football in Jo, Yobo is to inconsistent and the sooner people stop wanking over Neville the better cos it’s fucking embarrassing. This is your captain running round like a headless chicken throwing needless tackles in, and spare me the bollocks of ’well at least he’s having a go’ please. These players and others in that squad have been punching above their weight for to long now and seen there arse big time yesterday. Things need freshening up and fast.
Jonathan Ashton
28   Posted 16/08/2009 at 22:30:14

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Awful performance, obviously - and one that will be difficult to shake off very quickly (though that has happened occasionally before) - and clearly pointing to a need for SOMETHING to be done.

Actually, though, we don’t really know what the specific problem was here - we can guess and we may be wrong. Most likely it’s something to do with Lescott and maybe a lack of summer signings, but what exactly no one really knows unless they know the people involved personally and well.

Fellaini, Jo, Hibbert and Osman have some limitations, as has been discussed a lot, but those weren’t why we got hammered today. They were just doing the jobs they’ve been doing twhen we were coming fifth last season and (Jo aside) getting to the FA Cup final against all those top teams.

Don’t we all sing "We shall not be moved", because we are men and expect the Team to treat serious problems like men, very, very seriously but with balance? Not to lash out even though you hurt very badly.

If you want thing to turn round quickly, perhaps a bit less about shit Division 3 players, headless chickens, dogs, liars, panic, etc. It makes it harder to support - as opposed to abuse! - the team.

Moyes has to sort this, hopefully quickly and just as when he picked the side up from previous thumpings, stopped the acrimoney around disaffected players like Rooney, Van der Meyde and apparently Anichebe affecting the squad, inspired a small squad up to 4th when everyone thought they’d go down, got everyone together through last season’s injury crisis, signed one key player we most needed but didn’t think was possible didn’t think he could get (Arteta for Gravesen) etc - we have trust him to sort out this mess, as well.
Daniel McLoughlin
29   Posted 16/08/2009 at 23:08:50

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I agree with everything you said, I just can’t understand Moyes’s thinking behind keeping a player at the club who blatently doesn’t want to be there. Wenger took the £14 million for Toure and spent £10M on that lad from Ajax and he looked a decent player. Lescott isn’t worth £20 million so take it and he could be replaced for £10 million... and all them fans cheering for him need to get a grip... muppets!
Jack Francis
30   Posted 16/08/2009 at 23:27:25

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I'm not Tony Marsh’s biggest fan, but I agree BK has got to go! So all BK lovies out there need to wake up and smell the coffee. BK is a clown! He hasn't got the money so sell up before it's to late! And all this bull about no buyer — I'm not having it! He's treating us like mugs!!
John Andrews
31   Posted 16/08/2009 at 23:34:03

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I could not agree more with you Tony. It was an absolute shambles. I suspect we were lucky it was only the six goals. Osman, Hibbert neither fit to grace the Everton shirt.
Dave Brierley
32   Posted 16/08/2009 at 23:10:50

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Tony you are such a nasty negative twat. What an opportunity for you to spit out your venom on what you predicted and hoped would have happened last season.

It didn’t and how fucking dissappointed you must have been. So here we are on the first match of the season and once again, like the poison you are, you spot your opportunity. God how you must have revelled in our demise.

Our most frustrated "supporter" - I didn't say "so-called" has the opportunity to slag off Kenwright. Moyes, Hibbert and Osman and still have Neville and one or two others up his sleeve for the next game or two.

I’m so angry about the performance and the result. I made a roundtrip of 500 miles and spent more than I wanted to for a less than memorable experience. But everytime I read your bile on here it makes me feel worse. You seem to excel in Everton’s failure. I don’t ever read you on here when results are going our way. You seem to rejoice in the negative.

God help us in the coming months if we have to rely on you and your like to get us through what looks likely to be a challenging season.
Ciarán McGlone
33   Posted 16/08/2009 at 23:41:42

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Is anybody honestly surprised by the manner of the defeat yesterday?

We start the season with the same team that played some truly horrible football at the end of last season.

No balance, no width, no creativity - players played out of position and an inability to adapt to the game with any urgency.... I wasn’t one bit surprised.

Cahill and Fellaini should not be played together if Fellaini is to be the attacking midfielder - and similarly to Cahill I don’t think he’s got the awareness or creativity to effectively play that role...

Neville offers nothing in midfield and should be on the bench. Osman is not a very good player - finally he’s developing some consistency..he’s been consistently shit for a whole season..and looks like continuing that form.

And don’t start me on Jo...I was gutted when he came of the worst strikers I’ve ever seen - the signs were there last season...a striker who can’t hit the target from 6 yards...and yet people were happy when we took him back. Poor player.

Rodwell should be on the pitch.

And then we have David Moyes...why does he keep picking a team that isn’t our best team...what does he owe Neville, Osman and Cahill - or Fellaini for that’s almost like he’s afraid to bench anybody he’s bought...

And then we have the Lescott affair..playing him (and keeping him) is simply daft.

I was accused of being depressed on Friday..I wasn’t. I am now.
Ciarán McGlone
34   Posted 16/08/2009 at 23:54:35

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Cahill and Fellaini should not be played together if Fellaini is to be the attacking midfielder - and similarly to Cahill I don’t think he’s got the awareness or creativity to effectively play that role...


Typo- should read

Cahill and Fellaini should not be played together if Fellaini is to be the attacking midfielder - and similarly to Cahill I don’t think he’s got the awareness or creativity to effectively play the central midfield role...
Alex Mullan
35   Posted 16/08/2009 at 23:50:30

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This entire article to be the worst over reaction I have EVER heard. Let me just remind you of a few things to all you who want Moyes sacked......

We are regularly in Europe, in the top 6 (usually 5th) and are the ONLY club to have qualified for the champions league outside the ’big 4’ in the last number of years.

DESPITE the whinging we do spend money on transfers. Have we not broken the record every year of late? Maybe last year and this year have not been so smooth but fucking hell, we spent late last year and came 5th.

Do you really think Everton would be ANYWHERE NEAR the team they have been of late and are now without Moyes? Theres a fucking reason United want him. He's GOOD. He has dignity and hes young with a great future. Remember Charlon? SACK CURBS OH MY GOD WE ARE NOT PROGRESSING... Where are they now????

It's easy to kick Moyes when we lose but in the end of the fucking day we win more than we lose or we wouldnt be top 5 or 6 every year! We have had some MAGIC nights, remember the cup run last year? Sack Moyes my fucking ass, you don’t know what your talking about and its comments like that which CREATE an air of negativity.

One thing I do agree with is Hibbert is shite. He is blatantly not good enough. This needs sorted fast. Taylor would be brilliant to come in here. Osman is OK, he is skillful on the ball and comes up with the odd goal. He is a good squad player so get off his back. Not everyone can be fucking Arteta. Strangely losing 1-6 to Arsenal was probably the BEST thing that could have happend to us on Saturday. It's a wake-up call and it will I am 100% sure herald new signings. It has to. One thing is for sure I would rather lose 1-6 to Arsenal than lose 0-2 to Wigan at home like Villa, BUT YOU DON’T HEAR THEM CALLING FOR O’NEILL TO GO DO YOU??

Do yourself a favour and get behind your team despite the rough times. EVERY club has its shit days. We have had beatings before and we will again, I remember the Newcastle beating and other ones vs Arsenal. I remember when we lost to Shrewsbury in the cup but bloody hell IT HAPPENS and its GOOD it happened now so we can get woken up. We need players, we DONT need this negative bullshit so do us all a favour and BECOME one of those NFI fans sooner rather than later.

Tony Williams
36   Posted 17/08/2009 at 00:03:48

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Oh woe is us, the end is nigh etc etc.

It seems that a defeat by an Arsenal team negates any good Moyes may have done last season.

Let's look at it for what it is, a demoralising defeat by a good team, who usually always beat us. We are in the exact same situation as last season (and unfortunately the same team almost) we lost our first game then against an inferior side in Blackburn. So before the knee-jerk reactionists reach for the cyanide pills or the noose, lets take one game at a time (cliche I know) and stop the "end is nigh" rubbish.
Tony Marsh
37   Posted 17/08/2009 at 00:02:55

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Dave, I admire you for being such a great supporter. It must be hard doing 500 miles then having to watch that crap. Negative and nasty has nothing to do with it mate, as it's all very avoidable and that's what makes it more annoying.

We can all see the weak links in the side but Moyes can't. We all know we need more players yet none are brought in despite promises. It's rage and anger that drives me, Dave, that and despair — nothing else. It's been costing me over £4k a season for my tickets for years now and I am getting sick of the lies and deception.

What's to like about the state of the club these days and why should I be happy with it?
Ciarán McGlone
38   Posted 17/08/2009 at 00:07:23

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Alex....who are all these people who you say want Moyes sacked?

Did you have that answer pre-prepared... all the stock answers... transfer record, Europe, coming fifth... blah, blah...blah.

It seems you forgot to read the responses... no masses calling for Davey’s head in here I’m afraid.
Alex Mullan
39   Posted 17/08/2009 at 00:17:54

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Ciaran, Did you forget to read any of the above posts before you wrote your own? They nearly all read ’Moyes is shite’ .. ’Moyes needs to walk’ ..’Moyes should leave if he had balls’ and another claiming "idiot of a manager David Moyes!"

Do yourself a favour and READ the posts before you make a stupid remark.
Alex Mullan
40   Posted 17/08/2009 at 00:22:45

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And Ciaran, instead of calling my remark ’pre-prepared’, why don’t you answer them or criticise them properly? You disagree with my Charlton statement or the Villa defeat to Wigan or that we have infact progressed amazingly in the last few years? It would seem you have no comment on that other than to pointlessly call my response pre-prepared.
David King
41   Posted 17/08/2009 at 00:24:09

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"The deadwood needs replacing and, if we must, let’s start playing the kids. They can’t be any worse than some of that shower out there at present can they?"

Unfortunately, Yes, saw them playing Southport a few weeks ago, pre-season ,.. Absolutely shite! Played hoofball for 90 minutes... I came to the conclusion that they must have been told to play that way........
Alex Mullan
42   Posted 17/08/2009 at 00:32:52

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David King, Well we have been signing young guys in the summer at least, let's hope they are the real deal over the next year or two. Mustafi has a great reputation in Germany apparently and he was held in high regard by his club. We got the kid from Leeds and we signed the two American lads. Add that to Rodwell and Gosling and the other young guys on the bench yesterday and we have at least got things in the pipeline.

I just want to see some flair brought to the club and for people to get behind Davey and accept that this summer the transfer market has been totally blown appart by Real Madrid and Man City, affecting fees across the board. I wish we’d kept Kissock though, I felt he had more to offer!

David King
43   Posted 17/08/2009 at 00:45:05

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Mustafi only played for about 20 minutes in the game I saw, didn't really get into the game. Anton Peterlin played central mid and was the only one who tried to play the ball on the ground.....

My point was that none of the players I saw in that game were anywhere near good enough to play in the Premier League at present (unlike Rodwell & Gosling who I would like to see in the team asap). I am all for playing the youngsters and hope more of them progress into the 1st team in time.
Jason Lam
44   Posted 17/08/2009 at 04:31:27

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Have to agree with Tony, for all their endeavour, Hibbert and Osman are just not good enough. Not good enough for the Premier League and not good enough for my Everton.

What was really fucking depressing was the lack of pride. Bring back Joe Royle and his Dogs O' War. Fucking muppets the lot of them. Hang your heads in shame.
Ernie Baywood
45   Posted 17/08/2009 at 05:18:11

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Gutting wasn’t it. A shambles, a disgrace. A team that looked like it had never defended from a free kick before. A team that had over the last two years had been playing (and improving on) a system that involved playing football suddenly forgot how to and just smacked it at Fellaini’s head every opportunity they got. Arsenal’s players just stood back and waited, like an American Football team waiting for the punt.

By the way, incredible effort by Pienaar to keep going when he was surrounded by such a shit attitude from his teammates. He’s one in a million that lad.

Not too sure how the Chairman situation isn’t going to change. To be honest, I haven’t once thought to send some spare cash to the club so why we expect BK to do it is beyond me.

Likewise, if anyone buys the club what’s to say they’ll suddenly start giving THEIR OWN money to us? Only City’s owners have done that recently and then there’s Abramovich who has an interest free loan (well, at least for now) against Chelsea. The rest have just borrowed what they can against their club’s assets and future income and that’s the avenue that we look to have exhausted already.

Whisper it quietly but maybe Kenwright is doing all that he can?
Paul Johnson
46   Posted 17/08/2009 at 05:45:29

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Sorry Alex but "probably the best thing" that could of happened is we beat Arsenal 6-1. There were absolutely no positives to take out of the game. The only thing i got any real clarity of is that we must let Lescott go as the morale of both players and fans seemed to be at an all time low. Jesus it was Arsenal at home first game of the season and lets not beat about the bush we were shit.
Derek Thomas
47   Posted 17/08/2009 at 05:46:55

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If Moyes is the man of integrity we are always being told (no matter what his footballing weaknesses) then he must... DECIDE JUST WHO AND WHAT HE WORKS FOR and that is the question, not who pays his wages, although we do our share of that as well.

If he is happy with the way things are going / have gone then we are a lost cause. If not then he has to grasp the nettle and make some sort of PUBLIC protest, do a metaphorical Big Nev and sit up against his goal post at half time.

Yes, I know that there will be things behind the scenes we don’t know and we don’t need to know ALL of them, but half the trouble is that we are the ultimate mushroom, kept in the dark and fed bullshit and STILL front up with our hard earned every week.

Davey, go public or a good portion thereof. Just who are you being loyal to?? And whoever it is loyalty is a two-way street. You have enough cred to get another job, it must be one of the few trades where you can be publicly sacked for incompetence and still get a job by return of post.

Except for the rabidest of the anti-Moyes mob, most would support you versus Bill and the board and while I won’t speak for Marshy I include him your camp vs Bill.

Man of integrity or Wee timorous beastie???

David Moyes, come on down!
Mike McLean
48   Posted 17/08/2009 at 07:56:26

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Surely Moyes is being loyal to the man who is making him a multi millionaire. Or is there some complexity which is hidden from me?
Alan Clarke
49   Posted 17/08/2009 at 08:28:47

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I’ve looked forward to Marsh’s take on Saturday more than anyone elses. The way he predicted Saturday, I’m tempted to ask him for the lottery numbers for Wednesday night.

There’s not much more to add to it all. One thing I can’t understand is Moyes’s persistence with Hibbert and Osman. Moyes has been quick in the past to get rid of players he doesn’t want or doesn’t think are good enough — Krøldrup, McFadden and all the old codgers left over from Smith.

So why the stubborn persistence with Osman and Hibbert? Have they caught him in a compromising position? I think Osman could do well in the Championship and could be used as a makeweight in a deal for someone like Tuncay.

Moyes’s stubbornness on both the Lescott situation and playing the same right side in the team will cost us dear this season. I’m still pissing myself at the thought of Moyes managing Man Utd.
Steve Cahill
50   Posted 17/08/2009 at 08:41:28

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We need to chill guys, sure the weekend was an absolute dismal performace. Hopefully that was the eye opener that Kenwright needed, and money will be provided to Moyes. If that doesn’t help then I’m not sure what will, maybe a relegation?

Oh, and for all the fans that are pointing out players and positions, it's as simple as this. Hibbert to the bench, Osman used as a burst of energy every few games.

Fellaini and Cahill were made to be ’gods’ on this same website last season with there heroics.

And to suggest that Moyes bench Cahill of all people is ridiculous. WIthout Cahill, we lose our aerial advantage and fight/determination.

Let’s not be too silly guys, a couple of transfers and the return of Yakubu, Arteta and Jagielka will help a lot.

Iain Atkinson
51   Posted 17/08/2009 at 09:37:08

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What the hell is all this Hibbert and Osman bashing about? I agree that they are weak links in the team and should be replaced but the bile that has been spouting forth from these pages over the last couple of days is a complete over-reaction.

David Moyes and the entire first 11 should be held to account for that pathetic display on Saturday and to lay the blame at the feet of just two players and/or Bill Kenwright is ridiculous. I’m not advocating that we replace the manager by the way, I’m simply pointing out that it looked like the entire team was completely ill-prepared for the start of the season. Whether that was partly caused by the Lescott speculation or Moyes’s frustration at the lack of signings I don’t know but it was totally unacceptable and something which the manager needs to address immediately.

Equally unacceptable was the players’ performance whether it was lack of marking at set pieces, giving away possession too easily or the way players like Baines were being turned inside out far too easily leaving teammates badly exposed. Some of this might be explained by poor preparation but these are professional footballers FFS and what they were doing (or rather not doing) on the field was shocking.

I share everybody’s frustrations at our failure to strengthen the team over the summer but please don’t lose sight of the fact that the players who started that game should not have suffered a defeat like that at home to Arsenal (or indeed any team). Let’s hope it does at least provide a shock to the system, wakes them up from their summer holidays and gets them fully focused on playing football to the best of their abilities.

In the meantime, I will continue to optimistically and perhaps foolishly hope that the Board belatedly delivers on its duty to strengthen the playing staff.
Colin Potter
52   Posted 17/08/2009 at 09:18:29

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Derek, He’s the wee timorous beastie, ye ken!

Alan Clarke, there isn’t a snowballs chance in hell of Moyes getting anywhere near Old Trafford, except when we play them!

Karl Parsons
53   Posted 17/08/2009 at 10:12:07

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"The spark has gone from the David Moyes persona... if there ever was a spark. Moyes looks like — and gives the impression of being a dead man walking. His team has the same look and feel also." Tony Marsh.

I got this far into this post before I gave up.
You complete fuckwit Tony. This observation along proves you know nothing. Yes you are entitled to an opinion and you frequent this pages often. But as far has having any kind of strategic understanding you rank in the outer reaches of wisdom.

If I sacked one of my employees simply for having a bad day in the office, after proving year-on-year what In asset they were to my business I would quickly be out of business.

Yes, I remember you commenting you wished for Saturday’s result and I thought of you when we went 5-0 down. I also thought what a dick you actually are.

Anthony Doran
54   Posted 17/08/2009 at 10:24:32

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Why is this Tony Marsh given the freedom to go on and rant and rant so much on here? Tony Marsh IS an NFI Evertonian!! the ony time he is actually interested is when Everton are playing poorly!!

Yes, Saturday's result was disgraceful and you can point the finger and lay the blame at the obivious sources, let's be honest about it though, we are a broke club, we have been playing far above ourselves for the last few seasons, we have the core of our team out injured, our €15 million signing from last season looks more of a ’joke’ player than Osman and Hibbert combined! Let's not lose the run of ourselves though, one bad result doesn't make a season and so for all you NFI (not fucking interested) supporters... FUCK OFF THEN!

Ciarán McGlone
55   Posted 17/08/2009 at 10:43:07

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Saying someone is an ’idiot’ doesn’t mean they should go... and the ones above who did say he should walk... specifically meant he should do it in protest at Kenwright, not because he’s not good enough.

When the central premise of your post is flawed — ie, that ’all us people’ are calling for Moyes to be sacked — then I don’t really feel the need go any further with your comments... which, by the way, were more to do with other clubs than our club. I’m not interested in justifying our stupor on Saturday by comparing it with other teams who weren’t on that pitch.
Neil Vaughan
56   Posted 17/08/2009 at 10:46:18

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Anthony Doran...I think you will find that the NFI attitude is not just about Saturday’s result but because of years of mis-management by Kenwrong & his cronies....

I will say again....To fail to capitalise on improvement once (2005) could be called do it twice (2008) is crass stupidity but to do it three times (2009) is downright NEGLECT.
Why is is that when people like Tony and even myself refues to except that being "best of the rest" just not good enough...people like you tell us to FUCK OFF and stop supporting the club...

IMO the club is in it’s current state because to many people are willing to accept mediocrity as success..."we finished 5th.." "...we got to the FA Cup Final."..yada yada yada...

That’s not succes...WE’VE WON FUCK ALL..!!

Obviously people like Tony Marsh and myself are in the minority because we want us to win TROPHIES...but the majority seem to be happy with this "best of the rest" title which in effect means absolutely fuck all.

Every pre-season we are promised that the extra quality we need to actually win a TRPOHY will arrive...every pre-season Kenwrong & his cronies fail to deliver....If you’re happy with that so be it....I and many others like me are not !!

Dave Brierley
57   Posted 17/08/2009 at 10:56:41

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Tony the problem is that you’re never even remotely satisfied. Even when we are doing reasonably well (last season) you stiill whinge and moan and appear to be filled with the same despair win or lose.

For what it’s worth I don’t think we have a very good team. I also don’t believe David Moyes is a great manager. Flair and creativity were pages missing from his coaching manual. But nobody can deny he did a terrific job with the resources we had available last season and for that he deserves some respect. We should at least allow him to reach the transfer deadline before castrating the guy.

Saturday was really crap and we deserve better but I’m not about to throw the towel in over one performance.
Anthony Doran
58   Posted 17/08/2009 at 11:22:19

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Neil Vaughan, our ’success’ in the last few years has come on the back of a club that was bordering relegation for many a season and we, Everton, may have went the way of Notts Forest, Leeds and so many others but for some strange reasons, call it the manager, call it the chairman, call it the players that bought in on limited finances, turned this club around from the brink of nothingness to being a top 5 team.

We all want trophies and better things but lets face the facts... we don't have the money, muscle, and the players to actually go on from the achievements of the past few seasons so stop deluding yourselves and realise what ambitions this club actually can have this season, ie top 6, instead of thinking we can actually match the likes of Arsenal and Chelsea because at the end of the day we cannot match those teams and will not be doing so anytime soon! The truth hurts but deal with it and stop living in a daydream FFS.

Paul Joy
59   Posted 17/08/2009 at 10:33:03

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Saturday was the worst possible start to a season I can recall.

Do you know what made it even worse for me - the realisation that old misery arse Tony Marsh predicted it.

The manager and players were humiliated on saturday - the performance was woeful in every respect - with the lone exception of Steven Pienaar. The remainder were all inept.

Tony Marsh has again focussed on 2 of his pet hates. In part he is right - they are not good enough to be 1st choice players in any team with ambitions to challenge top level teams. That was rammed home in the Cup Final loud and clear. At best they are reserves/squad players - they most certainly would not be 1st choice at any other top half side let alone the sky4 (or is it 5 now?).

But to focus on just them is unfair - but predictable from Tony Marsh when it comes to spreading his misery.

Picking who was going to be subbed on Saturday you could have put names in the hat and picked 3 at random - goalie included. I was gutted we could only sub 3.

The manner of defeat was pathetic but even worse was the manner of football Everton tried to play. Hoofball again - to me this is the major problem. New signings - if we had any - can only affect this if they are allowed to. I do not want to watch Everton boot it like a latter day Wimbledon.

But focussing on how bad we were on the pitch - whether over reacting or not - is not where the real problems lie.

I am a David Moyes fan - consistently so. But too often he sends the team he picks out to play a style of football that I do not want to see. Too often we resort to hoofball.

The Manager picks the team - decides the tactics - his staff coach the players so hoofball is his responsibility - the buck stops with him alone.

Also his recent statement about the players being unprepared for the start of the season turned out to be an understatement. We were slow , ponderous - in thought as well as movement. The preparation of the players is also down to the Manager and his staff and there is no excuse for this - especially as this is the situation on a consistent basis year after year.

Now we can get to the real problems at Everton - Blue Bill and his board - and this I believe is where Tony Marsh’s real frustrations lie and on this I agree with Tony 100%.

BK oversees the gradual decline of our club into a club that just cannot compete financially any more. We cannot attract top players because we simply can’t pay the going rate for their wages or transfer fees. We can’t even compete with those giants of the game like Sunderland, Hull even.

Our stadium is a dump - much as I love the old place - but it is a dump. And a dump that cannot fulfill the financial needs of a Premiership side with Champions League aspirations. We all know we need a new stadium - where ? What choices do we have as fans? I am not going to take this any further other than to say that I have looked at the Echo Arena and thought if only. What an opportunity missed - in my opinion the worst single thing in our clubs history was missing out on Kings Dock - criminal.

Bill is not skint not by any means but he does not have the necessary wealth to provide for a club with our needs in this day and age. Something he acknowledges. He cannot be criticised for this.

What he can be criticised for is the bullshit he gives out to the fans - in fact bullshit is too kind to him- in real terms it is lies. Time after time.
Lying to the fans is unforgiveable. yet he does it repeatedly.
His lies have been debated at length - but make no mistake lies they are - and still some fans swallow his spin hook line and sinker. eg the comments about breaking our transfer record - whoever said that mate we paid £15 million for Fellaini - that money was from the sale of McFadden & Johnson - net spend fucking zero mate. So don’t go quoting that PR spin shite.

We want players in and offer them a third of the wages they can get elsewhere - end result we can’t even compete for 2nd raters these days - we have to unearth bargains - like Cahill, Jagielka, Arteta, Pienaar and Lescott. All to David Moyes credit. But we winge and moan about loyalty etc when 1 of them wants to go and earn what a regular international squad member can from doing his job.

As I see the club no one - but no one is doing their job well at the moment.

What is needed to put things right??

I am sure David Moyes will hammer the players this week and we will soon be back to normal churning out some 1 nil wins. But that is the short term - as far as the rest of it goes who knows - some honesty would be a good start but that is daydreaming.

We need investment - big time
We need a new stadium - big time
And we need a new Chairman - big time.
We could also do with some better players but I suspect that won’t happen either - just more of the same. Even that would liven things up.
I do not believe that we need a new Manager although I am dissappointed that he puts up with Blue Bill’s shit. David Moyes has been denied the opportunity to progress on what has been achieved during his tenure especially the last 2 years. Villa, Spurs, City and maybe Sunderland have all moved forward and we have not. And this hurts us big time too.

Without David Moyes where would we be? Charlton, Sheff Wed, etc etc take your pick. Leeds, Wolves - how far could we fall. Without Moyes as far as any - especially with Bill steering the ship. One thing I am sure of that is the direction we have been heading slowly but surely - David Moyes has halted the decline on the pitch but off it - nah - we are declining and will continue to do so.

NSNO - not for a very long time
Ciarán McGlone
60   Posted 17/08/2009 at 12:07:11

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Anthony...there’s an article above called ’are the fans to blame’ - You’d do well to read it.

You’re typical of the type of fan who’s grateful for scraps from the table - it’s embarassing.
Alex Mullan
61   Posted 17/08/2009 at 12:00:30

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’’I am concerned Moyes is a shitbag’’
"It is Moyes’ fault’’
"the last two years has seen Moyes fuck up wildly"
"Moyes doesnt have a clue even though last week we priased him"
"its that idiot of a manager David Moyes!"
"I honestly want Moyes to walk now"

and more.

My points were not that people explicitly want Moyes to go, though some do. My point was a lot of people are posting some seriously negative views in this thread, including yourself and it is completely unneccessary. ONE game has gone this year. Ask yourself this would you take 5th again? We lost to Blackburn this time last year in the last min and didnt win for 5 or 6 games and we did. Show a bit of faith in your team and don’t jump in tearing them up after one shocker. I can see why people are down over transfers but its quiet almost everywhere. Why should we spend 10-15mill on people who are worth 5? We have to be pragmatic, this isnt championship manager and things are not as clear cut as you think.

And my points about other clubs were used to reinforce the fact that people should not panic and were perfectly adequit. You don’t think me saying DON'T PANIC as Villa losing to Wigan at home is just as bad if not worse and bad days happen? I mentioned Charlton as I could see Everton going that way if enough negative supporters got their axes grinding and we end up moving on without Moyes.

I travel to Goodison from Northern Ireland 12-15 times a year work permitting and I go to a fair few away games. I spend as much if not more than a lot of people so please don’t belittle my opinion, which I was only offering in DEFENCE of our great club in response to a lot of wolves on here that are ripping the arse out it of after one game.
Ciarán McGlone
62   Posted 17/08/2009 at 12:16:47

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Alex, There was one reference to Moyes going in your provided quotes - And I’ll repeat - that was in reference to him ’putting it to’ Kenwright.

So there is no masses calling for Moyes to go. FACT!

And your points were ’explicitly aimed at people who wanted Moyes to go’

This is exactly what you said - "Let me just remind you of a few things to all you who want Moyes sacked......" — so you’re not only wrong, now you’re denying your own words.

Do not tell me I am being negative because you choose to try and spin the position we are in. It was a terrible result from a team who quite frankly look a shambles. That is not negativity, that is a frank assessment of the current first eleven.

And please do not try and be condescending with references to Championship Manager. You may think it’s a clever quip... to me that means nothing — as does your assinine acceptance of the status quo at this club.

ps: Perhaps you should try and restrict your analysis of this club — to this club... that way, your analysis may have a little more relevance.
Anthony Doran
63   Posted 17/08/2009 at 12:28:07

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Ciarán, I don't know what scraps you're on about but from were I'm looking the club have improved drastically since Moyes took over, supporters like you are only happy when you have got something to moan and whinge about. Get in the real world, we are not as big as the top 4 and have been doing extremely well to be ’the best of the rest’ and I applaud Moyes and his players for doing so well because we are a very limited club!

Having to post the obvious to fans like you is embarrassing! If we can't equal what other teams are offering in terms of wages means we wont get the best players, we are a middle of the road who can only afford average to good players and with that in mind we can be proud of what we have achieved in the last few seasons!

Anthony Millington
64   Posted 17/08/2009 at 12:39:57

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Tony I couldn’t agree more about the need to replace Hibbert and most certainly Leon Osman in the starting eleven. It’s been said for years and years that for Everton to move forward we need to replace Osman in the starting 11 as he is a weak link. I think your criticism of the pair is harsh as these two players give their all and have played a heavy part in the success of the Moyes era such as finishing 4th in the league, but it is down to Moyes to sort the situation out.

Personally I think Leon Osman is not a bad player and always seems to shine against the lower teams in the Premier League, however everyone must know by now and it’s been blatently obvious for anyone to see for ages that Leon Osman is ineffective against the big teams because he doesn’t have the physique or pace to compete efficiently at that level. We saw it on Saturday, Osman played on the right flank and not once was able to run at the full back or even get down the line to put a cross in.

People will say Osman is better in the middle, but because of his size he is not good enough to play as part of a partnership in the middle of a four man midfield and is only really useful in a five man midfield against the lower teams.

Moyes needs to bring in someone with pace and ability to play down the right handside in my opinion and it’s only obvious that we need another creative player like Arteta as when he is not playing we miss him massively.

Paul Joy
65   Posted 17/08/2009 at 12:44:37

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Alex, "Bad days happen" — come on mate there are bad days and bad days but Saturday took that to extremes. In my eyes to unacceptable extremes. Yes, only 1 game, 3 pts dropped etc, it was Arsenal and they’re good etc etc. Whatever you want to believe, it was more than just a bad day.

You are right that this is not Championship Manager — we would have a chance of winning the league in that. Debating all things Everton is why we all come on here and voice our opinions — those opinions always range from one extreme to the other.

Your opinion is just as valuable as any other Evertonian no matter where you come from. No matter how many games you go to — I hate the so-called Evertonian test that many refer to. You have the right to state your views - others don’t have to agree. Check out the celebrity moaners contributions of Tony Marsh — many many times I have said he talks shite. Though not always anymore. But he has earned the right to state whatever he likes in my opinion. As have you, me Ciaran et al.

Don’t take the hump — it's cyberspace mate.
Anthony Millington
66   Posted 17/08/2009 at 12:54:14

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Also, why did Moyes waste €15 million on Maruoanne? We could have signed a number of players for less that can pass a ball, tackle, run, track markers and make us exciting to watch like Fernandes or Palacios. Yet Fellaini, a so called holding midfielder is being played off the striker which is destroying cahill’s game because Moyes realises that his €15 million holding midfielder is not good enough to play as a holding midfielder so we’ve got to play a veteran right back there in Phil Neville.
Ciarán McGlone
67   Posted 17/08/2009 at 12:59:56

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Where do you get off telling me that I’m happy when we lose like that?...and where exactly do you get off telling me to go support someone else?

It’s supporters like you that are complicit in the scenario at this club - you can’t even accept the reality that things are at rock bottom financially - yet you tell me to ’get into the real world’

Maybe that kind of talk may suffice when your mother is dressing you in the morning - but on here there’s an expectancy for some substance with the words you post.

You should try it.
Paul Sullivan
68   Posted 17/08/2009 at 12:49:25

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That was BAD. To a man they were awful.
BUT. We can’t aspire to break the top 4 cartel, top of the B-league (i.e. coming in 5th) is the aim and anybody who thinks any different is deluded. That’s the way the so-called league has become.

Tony, I can’t work out who you’re moaning about. Moyes or the board or just life generally? Are you saying you think Moyes should walk because the board aren’t backing him with money or because you think he is shit? Who do you think we should replace him with then?

Basically, stop expecting Everton to be title contenders. It will not happen until the Premier League changes drastically. If you don’t like that then stop going to the game. Football as we knew it is dead so just accept it and try to enjoy it, or abandon it. Otherwise you’re just torturing yourself.
Paul Sullivan
69   Posted 17/08/2009 at 13:07:07

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Anthony Millington, I agree Fellaini wasn’t worth £15m but nor is Lescott worth £20m.

"... like Fernandes or Palacios" — You think we could afford either of thir wages? Fernandes had a better offer and Spurs are minted. I doubt we pay much more than Wigan can.
Anthony Millington
70   Posted 17/08/2009 at 13:12:46

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They would have high wages yes, but I don’t think they are on any more than players like Yakubu, Arteta and Lescott. If we cashed in on Lescott and tried to get someone like Onouha in exchange we would have around £20 million to use on strengthening our weak spots by bringing in a pacy right winger and a creative central midfielder and obviously if Moyes had any money left he could bring in more cover at the back.

I’ll wake up soon, Paul — I’m only dreaming, what do I know Everton don’t sign these types of players as weak links like Hibbert and Osman are worldbeaters along with Captain Fantastic. COYB!

Anthony Doran
71   Posted 17/08/2009 at 13:10:15

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Ciarán, I think I know that the club "finances are rock bottom", but yet people like you come on here and say we are settling for scraps off the table in terms of finishing fifth and an FA Cup final and that we should be winning trophies! FFS are you as dumb as your posts suggest?

How the fuck can we win trophies without having finances to buy in quaility players? WE ARE FUCKING BLESSED AS A CLUB TO BE DOING SO WELL AS WE HAVE BEEN DOING IN THE LAST COUPLE OF SEASONS!!!!!!!! So to have a go at me for realising this and accepting it shows that you and the like are living in a dreamland.

A result like saturdays was and is always possible and with what this club has at our disposal we can count ourselves lucky that there have not been too many similar results. I'm pissed off as much as everyone else but we don't have the players and it doesn't look like we will get them any time soon, so don't be expecting Champions League or Premier League trophies Ciarán!!!!

Neil Vaughan
72   Posted 17/08/2009 at 13:04:35

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Anthony, I think you’re the one who is deluded fella because in your world Kenwright is actually doing a good job — your opinion and you’re entitled to it....
It would appear that you think everybody should except the fact that we can't beat the top 4 but as long as we’re in the top 6 then that’s great... well that’s not great for me & many others.

What’s the point of getting to cup finals if you’ve no chance of winning them? We might as well get knocked out in the 3rd round... What’s the point of finishing fifth and getting knocked out of Europe at the first stage? We might as well not bother... as long as we’re no longer fighting relegation, that's fine... not to me it isn’t.

IMO this squad doesn’t require a major overhaul just 2 or 3 (definately) or 4 (possibly) with better quality to turn us in to a side that CAN actually win a trophy...& Kenwrong & his cronies have failed to deliver YET AGAIN... If you can’t see that then it is you that is deluded.

I’m not suggesting we can win the EPL but definately a cup or two and that will do me for starters....obviously you believe we should add the title of "BEST Of The Rest" to our honours list because it’s the only ’success’ we’regonna achieve whilt Bullshit Billy is in control and whilst people like you readily accept it things will never change.

Oh by the way...48hrs is rapidly turning into 72hrs and stll no new names coming in...probably saw Saturday’s debacle and told Moyes to forget it...
Steve Pugh
73   Posted 17/08/2009 at 13:18:53

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A word of hope, I live in Norfolk now and so have the Canaries rammed down my throat 24/7. They had a worse opening day than us losing 7-1 at home to Colchester. 4 days later they beat Yeovil 4-0 away.

There has to be hope.
Tony Williams
74   Posted 17/08/2009 at 13:24:30

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Neil, my take on Anthony’s rant is that he believes that we are a decent side but is fed up with the likes of Marsh continually saying that fans who accept this help bring us down. He rants and he moans but ultimately does the same as all the fans he tries to belittle.......absolutely nothing.

He is a serial moaner and disappears when we do well, most other posters are here throughout the good and the bad, he simply moans and criticises players/manager/board. He is also an "I told you so" poster when one of his many predictions come true.

I have some predictions for this season. We will not win the league, we will not win a cup and we will not beat any of the Sky 4 teams.

We are a half decent side that are always shown up against Arsenal (apart from the odd draw/win here and there). Usually they score at least 3/4 against us. We cannot play them as they pass us off the park and we have no hardknocks in the middle to win it back and then to actually play the ball because... wait for it... we are nowhere as good as we think/hope we are.
Ciarán McGlone
75   Posted 17/08/2009 at 13:31:47

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Anthony, If you’d care to stop foaming at the mouth for one second, and read my posts before hitting the keyboard with your stubby fingers, you’d maybe realise that I’m suggesting that placating Kenwright — and accepting his position at this club — is the reasons why you are happy with the ’scraps from the table’.
Paul Sullivan
76   Posted 17/08/2009 at 13:38:58

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Anyone seen this?

Who does Hansen think he is? He’s not even a journalist, he is no more connected in football than you or I yet he thinks we will believe his drivel.
Anthony Doran
77   Posted 17/08/2009 at 13:39:10

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Neil Vaughan, Were did I actually say that "Kenwrong is actually doing a good job"???????? Dont quote me unless you can do so correctly. We probualy should never made it to the FA Cup last season but we can thank Sir Alex and his team selection for that. Of course we had a chance of winning the final last season but the better team showed up and won it on the day.....DEAL WITH IT IF YOU CAN? You moaners seem to think that we should be winning things because we are Everton, so do I, but Everton do not have the resources to win the big games,and compete at the top level, we are a world away from it and those 3/4 players you think would bring success im afraid the only way of getting them is investment which the clubb does not have. That is the situtation of Everton at present deal with it

Ciarán, Kenright is our chairman, a broke one to be sure and one I would rather see gone and replaced with a russian billionaire and you can complain about him till that day comes but in the current affairs of the real world revolving around Everton the man Kenright has Everton at his heart and im sure he has been doing the best he can for the club. Unfortunately this is way below the standard set by the money flush rich clubs we are trying to compete with, so slagging me off as a supporter who settles for reaching a cup final and regulary finishing fifth and quailifing for Europe as some sort of success only shows that YOU are not quite living and dealing with the reality of present day Everton!
Tony Williams
78   Posted 17/08/2009 at 13:51:45

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To be honest Paul, there is not much wrong with what he says.

he confirms that the players have got the power now unfortunately and it must be affecting us so possibly just best to get shut.

I am hoping for a situation like Barry with Villa last season but it doesn’t look like it will be;however as I suggested in another post I would say out of all the defenders on Saturday he was the best of a very, very bad bunch
Ciarán McGlone
79   Posted 17/08/2009 at 14:02:09

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Seriously, put a bit of thought into your posts.....your still missing the point.
Anthony Doran
80   Posted 17/08/2009 at 14:06:33

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Ciarán your missing brain cells my posts are wasted on an idiot like you. An idiot child like mind you have im afraid, did we beat Arsenal 6-0 on footy manager last night at your gaff? PMSL
Ciarán McGlone
81   Posted 17/08/2009 at 14:10:25

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Yes, that last post was definitely a level or two above my station.
Paul Sullivan
82   Posted 17/08/2009 at 14:09:36

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Tony, you’re right. I suppose I was more annoyed with his assertion on MotD that Lescott would "definitely" go to City. As if he has some insight on the matter aside from his own need to appear knowing.

Re: the other comments, I thought I was logged into ToffeeWeb not TeenyWeb. Grow up, lads.
Anthony Doran
83   Posted 17/08/2009 at 14:23:41

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Some good one-liners there Ciarán more of the same and ill surely come around to see the ’point’ your making, whatever the fook that is? Oh yeah, wait — you think we should be winning the treble right? And all of us who disagree or don't aspire to that are on the doobie!

Get real will you! I'll be demanding trophies when we have players who can actually deliver them! We don't so I won't wreck my own head thinking we should. I'm happy that we ain't down there with Newcastle who have way outspent us and now play in the Championship!!

Benn Chambers
84   Posted 17/08/2009 at 14:28:39

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Tony’s posts wind me up something rutheless but this time, it's agreeing with him and getting the flashbacks of Hibbert and Osman wearing blue that will haunt my dreams for some time to come.

They need to go, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!! No pace, no srength, no power, poor passers, can't head, can't cross, can't be arsed!!! All of those reasons are why we got twatted by a very ordinary Arsenal team. If they play like that Celtic will tonk them, that shows how bad we were!

I would literally take any other 2 right sided players in the Prem right now, think of 2 and name them, I’d have them!
Ciarán McGlone
85   Posted 17/08/2009 at 14:36:31

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I doubt you get the point - that’s several times it’s been explained to you now - and still it’s failed to sink in..

One more time - just for fun - You admit we do not have the players to challenge at the top...yet state that Kenwright has the ’interests of the club at heart’...

Now, ask yourself why we don’t have the players to compete...then re-read your placating of Kenwright’s tenure - repeat this several times if necessary...

Do you honestly not see the contradiction between these two statements?
Anthony Doran
86   Posted 17/08/2009 at 14:42:28

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Ciarán, I'm just humouring you here now, you're taking a selection of our posts above here just to suit yourself and make the point that our chairman has failed to bring in money for the funding of new players. Surprisingly to you, I'm well aware of this! However, I'm not delusional (unlike your good self) in thinking that we can or are capable of consistently competing for trophies as we cannot at present.

My point, which you have slatted me for, is that I am supporter who is aware that our performances in the last few seasons have delivered a modest bit of success, which I am thankful for because it is a lot better than fighting relegation and is a step in the right direction, though I fear the bad days maybe coming back... but don't you dare put me down for being happy that we have been at the right end of the table for the last few seasons.

Paul Joy
87   Posted 17/08/2009 at 15:05:37

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Evertonians laying into each other after only 1 game!!!

Anthony Doran and others — if you consider finishing 5th in a 20 team league and reaching a Cup Final (oh and a League Cup semi) — if that is classed as success then yes Everton have been successful. Very very limited success — any trophies I’ve missed us winning in the last 22 years — only 1 mate. 1 FA cup in the last 22 years since we last won the league. Under David Moyes nothing — zero — zip. So your overly happy clappy positive views do not stand any scrutiny mate. That is just a polite way of putting it.

The reality is we have just been treading water on the field whilst we are declining off it.. You can class our achievement as success if you wish — but to me it is what others describe — scraps.
Ciarán McGlone
88   Posted 17/08/2009 at 15:17:09

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Yet again your failure to understand my point is acutely delivered with the subtlety of a sledgehammer.

I have not once stated we should be able to compete for the league or trophies.

In fact, quite the contrary - the fact that we cannot do that under the current guardianship - is my entire point. If you cannot understand or digest this simple point when it’s laid in front of you..then there’s no point responding.

But then again, Kenwright has our best interests at heart...doesn’t he!

That’s why he’s still fucking here isn’t it?
Steve Pugh
89   Posted 17/08/2009 at 15:38:56

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I don’t expect to win the Prem this year. But I do expect us to improve on last year. I don’t think there is a single person on ToffeeWeb that would slate the club if we showed definite signs of improvement year on year. But we don’t.

To be honest, we only got fifth last season because other clubs took a backwards step in the latter half of the season whilst we stood still. That is not good enough, we need to close the gap on those above us, even if it is one player at a time.

I just wish DM would focus on the right (in both senses of the word) side of the pitch. Personally a good RM would be first choice, Hibbert is good at the defensive job if he has support from midfield, he just doesn’t get it so he is left exposed too often and doesn’t have a good outlet.

Anthony Doran
90   Posted 17/08/2009 at 15:21:38

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Paul, success in terms of silverware hasn't happened under Moyes ok, before him a one-off under Royle and nothing since back into the 80s when money was not rife in the game and we were a ’big’ club. Success in terms of been a stable team in a league were money rules and the poor clubs like Everton inevitable get lost in oblivion is the achievement of Moyes and it is a substantial achievement. Fans like yourself don't regonise how close this club was to becoming an non-entity. So I applaud this success he has brought but where we go from here is now the question?

Ciarán, we cannot compete for the Premier League or Champions League, it's not entirely the fault of any one person at the club as there are larger monetary forces that have alienated 3 quarters of the Premier League from the competition. Your dimwitted view that it's all the current administration's fault is laughable.

We have gone FORWARD in the past few seasons, and have changed the trend at this club, does this not equal success? You people wanting trophies and blaming those that currently run our club for the lack thereof is something you're entitled to do but we owe our Premier League and our very own existence as a club to these people.

Ciarán McGlone
91   Posted 17/08/2009 at 16:05:27

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What a pile of Bollocks.

We have been outspent by the entire premiership so far this summer...the elitism of the chamipons league is NOT a justifiable excuse for not spending a single penny on a player...Other teams have still managed to spend.

To suggest our current financial situation is conveniently not Kenwrights fault is absurd. It’s entirely his fault that he choose to buy this club while having no money to invest in the team or ground. Its entirely his fault that he’s failed to find investment or sell the club during the entire 8 years of his tenure - despite his aggravating paltitudes to the contrary.

You can call me dimwitted all you want (although I assume I’d be shown a yellow card for the repeated personal abuse your lack of argument and understanding have made you resort to)....however just because you fail to see the wood for the trees..does not make you right.
Anthony Doran
92   Posted 17/08/2009 at 16:17:30

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The lack of a single buy is something the bemuses me also. To blame Kenwright soley for the financial state of the club is plain dumb as he inherited it from a previous administration whom bled the club dry. Kenwright done much to stabilize us but his pockets have taken us as far as he can. Under him though we have gone forward — something which you fail intentionally to comprehend.
David Cain
93   Posted 17/08/2009 at 11:51:57

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After supporting the blues through thick and thin since the late 70s (more thin than thick obviously), I'm now thinking the unthinkable. I know I know, but a 6-1 defeat at home is powerful magic. A small but growing part of me is beginning to wonder if the stadium move outside Liverpool will be a justifiable excuse for finally saying enough is enough and then switch to the only Premier League team remaining in Liverpool.

It'll be hard to put up with this sort of shit from a team not even IN THE CITY!! No offence to the natives, but doesn't a Knowsley-based team sound more like it belongs a few divsions lower? With this team it could be a reality. I'm hoping these thoughts will subside when Moyes proves he's got what it takes and storms the rest of the season (yeah right). Is it just me?

Ciarán McGlone
94   Posted 17/08/2009 at 16:39:21

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Plain dumb is it?

I guess the previous administration are responsible for the debt being around £90million... I guess the previous administration are responsible for our yearly game of finding players ’who don't cost much, don't want much wages and improve us’ — are they?

Anthony, just for amusement, you suggest Kenwright has ’done much to stabilise us’ — would you care to expand on this? Maybe tell us one or two things he’s done to stabilise us?
Matthew Mackey
95   Posted 17/08/2009 at 16:40:28

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What I can’t understand is why DM was so keen to get rid of Jacobsen so quickly after the FA Cup final when we hadn’t got any replacement in place for Hibbert. I’ll never understand that. I actually thought Jacobsen looked pretty useful when he played so why was he pushed out?

We really do shoot ourselves in the foot sometimes don’t we!
Anthony Doran
96   Posted 17/08/2009 at 16:55:18

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One thing he has done, Ciarán, was to bring in Moyes though I guess you're not a fan of him either? I don't pretend to be privy to what is or has gone on at boardroom level at the club but from my limited knowledge on the subject is that it was below standard but has improved somewhat, though in your eyes fuck all under Kenwright.

As for your belittling of the players who, in your own words ’don't cost much, don't want much wages and improve us’ well most of them have done just that and I'd rather have them than a £30 million mercenary who is here for the cash and not the club.

As I said, I believe your hankering and hounding after Kenwright is plain dumb as it doesn't solve anything but simply highlights something which is quite well known to most Evertonians at all levels and for quite sometime now. You seem to think you are the first person to highlight this and are reveling in it; it's plain to see he has done good for the club but is limited financially and possibly commerically and you're just on here to spout the death knells for him after one game and a summer of no transfers.

Fuck off to you I'd say for not recognising the goods points of Moyes and Kenwright and fuck off to them if they let the momentum they have built up in the last few seasons fade into mid-table obscurity.

Ciarán McGlone
97   Posted 17/08/2009 at 17:03:58

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They’re not my words... they are the words of David Moyes.

Nice explanation of what Kenwright's done — appointed Moyes. Blinding.

I’d kill to have a £30mill player on our staff... I guess that’s the difference between me and you.
Anthony Doran
98   Posted 17/08/2009 at 17:24:19

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The difference between me and you, Ciarán, probably isn't long because of the internet unfortunatley. I'm sure you have a whole list of things of what Kenwright HASN'T done but that's another difference between me and your good self, I look and appreciate the positives while you dwindle and procrastinate on the negatives. I bet if I handed you £30 mil and said go buy me a player, you’d come back with Shevchenko!
John Andrews
99   Posted 17/08/2009 at 18:30:14

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Perhaps when a few turn up for the game on Thursday the penny might drop ? Although I very much doubt it.
John Martin
100   Posted 17/08/2009 at 22:26:49

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Moyes is always fearful of the top 4 sides. It's why in general we get beat by them. It's why we play 4-5-1 all the time. But if we are to move forward we can't keep with it.

We lost the FA Cup Final to a team with a better player in each position but the main reason was Moyes came up against a far superior coach in Gus Hiddink. Hiddink showed the rest of the Premier League how to deal with us. He destroyed our right hand side. He also knew our only outlet is Pienaar/Baines combo down the left by moving Anelka out wide he kept Baines back.

Fast forward to the first game of season and Wenger plays Bendtner, a limited striker but tall, and he dominated Baines and restricted his forward runs. We thus had little creativity. Moyes needs a new game plan when we face a top 4 side and preferably about 6 new players. I expect to see more teams line up 4-3-3 against us.

Rob Murphy
101   Posted 18/08/2009 at 00:12:35

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I just read every post on this page & now my head hurts :-(
Gavin Ramejkis
102   Posted 18/08/2009 at 01:37:40

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Alex Mullen re "I can see why people are down over transfers but it's quiet almost everywhere." A quick quiz for you, can you tell me what the following all have in common?

Tottenham - Bassong
Man City - Adebayor
Sunderland - Bent
Arsenal - Vermaelen
Hull - Hunt

Five debuts and five goals, not bad for a "quiet" time was it?
Ciarán McGlone
103   Posted 18/08/2009 at 08:45:36

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That’s exactly what I’d do with £30mill Anthony - Buy Schevchenko.

You got me.
Paul Joy
104   Posted 18/08/2009 at 08:44:08

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Anthony Doran

"Fans like you don’t recognise how close this club came to becoming a non-entity"

A sweeping assumption mate also just plain wrong. You have no concept of what sort of fan I am.

My point all along is that "non-entity" is the direction our club are headed — slowly but surely — David Moyes has made us the "best of the rest" over recent years but he has not had the backing and investment to genuinely progress — progress I would judge on the challenge and winning of trophies.

As an alternative to fighting relegation I am delighted to finish 5th and see some European action with some good cup runs thrown in — yeah better than the dross we had to put up with before David Moyes.

But personally I am not satisfied with 5th, no way — I want more — don’t we all?
Ciarán McGlone
105   Posted 18/08/2009 at 09:22:38

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Good luck with that one Paul!
Neil Vaughan
106   Posted 18/08/2009 at 09:23:33

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Paul, you’re wasting your time mate as your point is lost on someone who obviously does not understand it....and tells anybody who doesn't accept mediocrity as success or the failure of this board every year to properly back the manager to fuck off.

"There are none so blind as them that cannot see..." as it where.

I on the other hand tottaly concur....
Anthony Doran
107   Posted 18/08/2009 at 10:57:03

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Lol, I'll just say this as my final point regarding the ’success’ which I have enjoyed as a supporter of Everton in the last few season is far better than fighting relegation season-in, season-out and winning One FA Cup!

Our club, even though you might wish it and are very eager to lay the blame rightly or wrongly at the board, is a poor club and only with major investment of which currently inhabit the big clubs in the Premier League can we actually afford the players the likes of which Ciarán dreams of. Yes I'm lost as to why we haven't signed even one player but we cannot attract or afford to bring in them big players we all would like to see, it's the devastating truth really.

We would be doing ’good’ to maintain our stability in the Premier League until major investment comes along (if it ever does) and thats the legacy of Moyes and Kenwright.

Kiern Moran
108   Posted 18/08/2009 at 11:24:13

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Well I think we won injury time easily. It's a game of three halves and we only lost the first two.
Dave Wilson
109   Posted 18/08/2009 at 11:28:34

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Stability? Any would-be investor would be taking on a debt approaching £100 million and thats before he even looks at improving the ground / moving, Kenwright has let GP deteriorate while evey other chairman has been busy— thats Kenwright's legacy.
Ciarán McGlone
110   Posted 18/08/2009 at 11:55:02

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Watch out for Anthony - he’s a cute one..

He accused me of wanting to buy Shevchenko....and I had no come back!
Anthony Doran
111   Posted 18/08/2009 at 12:03:53

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No, all you have is sad one-line smart-arse remarks, Ciarán.

Dave that's some amount of debt, I don't pretend to know all about the business sides of Everton, I'm more of an on-the-pitch-type fan, as it were. How bad were we before Kenwright, all the doom-mongers on here seem to lay anything bad at his doorstep. Maybe we’d be better of having some American like the one at Utd running the club.
Ciarán McGlone
112   Posted 18/08/2009 at 12:23:15

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Anthony, You’ve been arguing the entire length of this thread about the business model of Everton... and being abusive about it as well — and it’s taken you until now to admit that you don’t know what you’re talking about. Bravo!
Anthony Doran
113   Posted 18/08/2009 at 12:28:09

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No, Ciarán, I've been arguing that, under Kenwright and his installing of Moyes as manager, the club has gone forward. I have freely admitted that I don't know the ins and out of what goes on at boardroom level but am prepard to argure that under Kenwright we have improved generally as a club, which I believe we have.

We are not Premier League challengers, which is why idiots like yourself dismiss the last few season of modest success as failure, and even though I may not know much of the business model of Everton, there is nothing you have posted that suggests to me that you're any more wiser than myself but I'm sure you will enlighten me with some of knowledge...

Anthony Doran
114   Posted 18/08/2009 at 14:28:05

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Nothing coming to you yet, Ciarán? You must have googled something good by now... no? Come on, sock it to me — it's what your good at.
Rob Murphy
115   Posted 18/08/2009 at 15:05:30

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My head is still hurting guys :-(
Ciarán McGlone
116   Posted 19/08/2009 at 15:01:17

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Where do you find the time to read them Dave? And more to the point, why bother?

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