I’ve never posted on here before, but in light of the events of the last few weeks, and having read the vast amount of ToffeeWeb and Blue Room views on our current situation, I felt I had to get my view across.
I’ve been an Everton fan for 20-odd years. I was a kid when we began our Eighties glory era (glory-hunting gone wrong, I know), and – like everyone else – have endured everything since then with patience and gritted teeth. I like to the think I’m the type of fan who has a pretty balanced view on where we’ve been since: not hysterical, but at the same time not bound by blind faith. So it’s with that in mind that I give my humble opinion tonight (for what little it’s worth).
I watched Lescott’s press conference in full this morning and it was heartbreaking. Heartbreaking because, as much as I wanted to loathe him for his desertion, I agreed with much of what he said. Yes, there were his barbed and unnecessary asides about Moysie’s comments, which I won’t bother to address. But when he stated simply that he saw Man City as more likely to break into the top four than Everton, and more quickly, it was true. I couldn’t argue with him on that, and frankly if I were in his shoes, and offered a rise of more than double my current wages, I’d be thinking about it too.
He’s 27 – so he’s probably got another four years at the top of his game. And at the current moment I don’t think any player wanting Champions League football would think any differently if they had a choice between Man City or any of the others jostling to compete with Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool or Man Utd.
Of course Lescott could have handled the whole thing with more dignity, and could have at least thanked us or Moyes today for the support he’s had which has turned him into an England international. But frankly that shows us more about his spineless personality than it does about his professionalism.
All of which leads me on to Moyes and Kenwright. One of the reasons I’m writing this is because, despite our position financially (and being unable to compete with Spurs/Man City in the transfer market), I’m just staggered by some of the vitriol directed towards these two both on here and other sites.
Fair enough, I wish we had billions to spend and were raiding Man City for their best players rather than the other way round, but I can’t seriously believe Bill Kenwright is deliberately impeding our progress, as some suggest. Rather – and I don’t think this can be classed as blind faith – I think he’s genuinely looking for a successor, but is not stupid enough to take the first one that shows their head.
Why do I think that? Because look at the examples that have been before. Portsmouth, Man City under Thaksin, Liverpool (hardly a bed of roses over there is it?), Newcastle, and West Ham? And those are only the most significant ‘megabucks’ takeovers of recent years. Before that we had Wimbledon by the Norwegians, Southampton by Rupert Lowe... the list goes on. You can count on the fingers of one hand the number of takeovers that go right and lead to prosperity and success. Personally I’d rather see BK hang on for another year and find a billionaire who genuinely was good news, rather than hand over to the first Eastern European tycoon with a wad of roubles to spare.
I can even less understand the anger towards Moyes for his stance on Lescott and his team-building thus far. We’ve arguably got the best starting XI (when fit) in 20 years, and finally a youth system worth speaking of. And our boss has just screwed Man City for £24m for a good-not-great Premier League centre-back by holding out for another week – thus making him the third most expensive defender in the world behind Ferdinand and Daniel Alves.
Yes we’d all like decent signings. But Distin will do me as a short-term replacement and a No 3 centre-half when Jags returns. And let’s just see how Bilyaletdinov does before slamming that decision to buy. As for those having a dig at Fellaini, give the lad a rest will you? He’s 21, he’s missed swathes of pre-season with a virus and has been played out of position for the last however many months. He hasn’t done too badly at it either.
I’m sorry for the lengthy post, but ultimately my view is this. We have little option but to hold tight for the moment and vitriol and pessimism is pretty pointless in the meantime ain’t it? This is the first season in two when we quite realistically might fall back League-wise, and I realise that. But until Kirby gets sorted one way or another, I can’t see any businessman with a brain going near Everton. Why would you?
Kirkby is a massive factor for our future finances. So let’s give BK until the end of this season and see – post the Kirby decision – if he’s found us a buyer. If he hasn’t, and the economic situation has eased globally, that’s surely the time to raise questions. For now, get behind the lads, and the club, and thank God we’re not Pompey or Newcastle fans...
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1 Posted 26/08/2009 at 21:24:50
As for Newcastle, not entirely Mike Ashley’s fault; West Ham have been screwed by the collapse of the Icelandic economy. The above have been unfortunate, but they put their money into their clubs, Bill and the board haven’t put a penny in to growing EFC.
Why not bring up Spurs? — their takeover by ENIC has put them in a far stronger position financially and it's starting to show on the pitch.
Carly, EFC needs more than money, it needs an injection of ideas and ambition. Back Bill all you like, but eventually you will have to accept that we are getting nothing in return for the adulation that he has received for 9 years — apart from the continual lies and excuses for his failure to organise the club.
2 Posted 26/08/2009 at 22:48:04
What I’d like to know from those fans who seem to think there should be some sort of mass revolution against Bill and the current board is, "Who the hell is going to replace them with these millions some of you seem convinced are waiting to be poured into the club?"
I imagine any billionaires who are desperate to buy the club would have played their hand by this point. If anyone publicly stated they wanted the club and were loaded, I think the fans’ reaction would drive Bill out if he wouldn’t sell.
The man has made mistakes, plenty of them... but, until someone better comes along, I’ll take my chances with BK ahead of The Yanks, Ashley and any of the other failed mega-bucks takeovers.
3 Posted 26/08/2009 at 23:12:17
I’ve got to ask, have you not heard that the majority of supporters don’t want to go? Have you not read anything about our virtually free state of the art stadium with the best transport links in the country that will give us an extra 6 mill for players as long as we get 48,000 every home game.
4 Posted 26/08/2009 at 23:15:44
That it will be a new, modern stadium is not the point. Its location on the outskirts of town in a charmless plastic retail park will, I fear, see it turning off many match-going supporters and therefore see us not obtaining anything like the extent of the hoped for ’future finances’. We will be indistinguishable from Bolton.
It’s trite to say that people like to be next to water and where things are close, bustling, and have charm. If we want to attract people (both solid supporters and, perhaps more importantly, the waverers) to come and watch us play and we are to remain in the Liverpool area, then it’s a no brainer to me that we have to sit tight at Goodison for as long as it takes to find, and this time acquire, another Kings Dock.
If we can pull that off, we have great prospects of securing a stellar long-term future — an incident of which is that it will cruel Liverpool FC: what team would you prefer to go to watch (particularly if you’re a waverer) — or for that matter buy — the one that’s way out there where nothing’s happenin’, or the one that’s right in the City next to the water’s edge.
5 Posted 27/08/2009 at 00:36:55
I worry that we will wait until kingdom come for another opportunity like the Kings Dock and even then we won't be able to afford it. My reading of it is that we can’t have our cake and eat it. Maybe as a non-local fan, albeit one that has lived in the city in the past, it is easier for me to stomach this though.
As long as we can get there, I feel I would begrudgingly accept a Kirkby -style stadium, and possible new investment and vigour, as opposed to this every year.
6 Posted 27/08/2009 at 06:56:09
7 Posted 27/08/2009 at 08:45:27
Nothing like a bit of scaremongering about other clubs takeovers - to validate ’blue bills’ tenure..
I’ve heard it all before.
Whataboutery - a terrible affliction.
8 Posted 27/08/2009 at 08:56:23
As for drama queen Ciaran....’run us into the ground’?! I’m not best pleased at the state of things but are you so quick to forget the achievements of last season?
Alright we would all like more but surely even the angriest of fans have to admit we have made progress over the last 5 years.
9 Posted 27/08/2009 at 09:11:18
Kenwright’s own words...’We are struggling to make ends meet’.....Not histrionics or drama - fact. And that’s on top of deceit, deception and deprivation.
How much longer can fans advocate apathy and acquiesence?
But, of course...we did finish fifth, and get to the cup final - lets doff our caps and genuflect to blue bill.
What a sad state of affairs.
10 Posted 27/08/2009 at 09:16:17
11 Posted 27/08/2009 at 10:20:17
The more I read, the more I feel that BK might just be a puppet for Earl and Co. A warm, loyal, lifelong blue who smiles and cries at Everton matches. How could such a guy ever be bad for our club? Well, ask yourself if BK was instead Suliman Al-Farim from a distant land. Given the board’s performance of the previous 9 years would people still be saying "give him more time"? I very much doubt it. This board must go, before our manager and top players do.
12 Posted 27/08/2009 at 16:32:28
We’ll be looking back on 2009 with rose-tinted spectacle nostalgia !! Make the most of it. It’s gonna get worse !
13 Posted 27/08/2009 at 19:33:52
14 Posted 28/08/2009 at 19:05:23
You are spot on.
It is easy to be negative, and I have seen, watched, heard enough negative comments for the sake it to see that there is not a lot of intellect behind them ... calling BK a liar, picking out faults is not going to get the job done.
I wish just one negative poster would come out and say exactly what they would do - what model they would advocate, what their strategy is to achieve it, how would they go about executing and why every other everton supporter should get behind their ideas.
After agent Johnson, to get on the door of the big four and build a squad like we have and still be progressing this week is absolutely admirable and many many fans of other clubs around the country would love the posiiton we are in.
Now that doesn’t mean I beleive Kirby is good, right or have blinkered eyes to Bk’s shortcomings but I do get fed up of negative comments that do not contribute any new insight nor provide credible alternatives.
Please give ideas and approaches not repetitive, unimaginative bland negative barking cliches that are honestly infuriating after a while to most sensible and balanced loyal blue..
15 Posted 29/08/2009 at 09:15:02
It cannot be said often enough nor loud enough that the club hierarchy should be laughed out of town. If that bores some of you, live with it.
16 Posted 29/08/2009 at 12:31:05
We are successful .. in Europe consistently - building a valuable and strong squad with a strategy that has bought one young talent each year and filled gaps along the way with loans etc. greta youth system that Johnson closed at one point.
Now that some of that talent is offloaded for eg ridiculous over the top 24m and replaced with three or four others for the same money we get into the adding two talents each year mode.
Kind of sounds sensible to me and has been bringing sucess.
A shambles would be the Portsmouths, the Southamptons, the Leeds, the Norwich, Middlesborough etc
Apart from the Kirby/new investor situation I am quite happy where we are. if we can keep Moyesie and the type of progress we have been making then we really do have a chance of bridging the gap to the top four and back to winning the championship in 2-4 years. The hierarchy do deserve credit for the positives.
So please recognise the positives and live and enjoy it - it is great being an Everton fan without the worry of the last game, last kick for Premiership survival nightmares.
17 Posted 29/08/2009 at 13:06:40
18 Posted 29/08/2009 at 13:42:19
19 Posted 29/08/2009 at 20:46:22
Colin, If you do not know what we have won in the past ten years then I assume you are not a blue and should not be on here... ;-) Seriously, hardly anyone has won any of the major trophies outside of the so-called four in the past ten years. Success is relative and comparative — certainly the level of progress does not merit the claims of shambles, we are in last-chance saloon kind of exaggerations — and that is my point ...people need to be a bit more balanced and keep the faith.
Carly is right and anyone that continues to have extreme negative views that does not reflect a balanced picture then they can continue to run down my club but I and others also have the right to defend our club and say it as I see it and right now I feel they are not true supporters but detractors of the club.
Truth, yes; fair criticism based on fact, yes but not a continued repeat of exaggerated nightmare scenarios, personal attacks and negativity for the sake of negativity. Every time a paper report on someone we have been chasing doesn’t come off, everyone blames one of our own with such bile and venom, I honestly don't know why.
Look at Liverpool and Man U this window — have they made any progress? The three we have got in — Bily, Distin and Jo are real top quality — if two to three more come in of that quality we have made significant progress this window and all I hear is constant finger-pointing at Kenwright, Elstone and Davie Moyes on our lack of ability in the transfer market.
In the clear cold light of day, we have made progress each year and are sitting very well right now. That is not how many negative posters portray it — ie the real situation.
20 Posted 29/08/2009 at 21:45:36
We were a top-five team at the ensd of last season, but now we are THE bottom team. It’s not bile as you claim, it’s realism.
It’s all very well saying things will improve; maybe they will, maybe they won’t. Your predictions of advancement are as worthless as other predictions of doom. The point is, we are where we are through gross incompetence by the parties who should know better... and should have done far, far better in preparing this squad for the new season. Up to this point, they have failed in their duties. That is not the fault of fans who rightly call them on it.
So don’t come on here with your claptrap about "support the club"... the only reason people are posting here is because they ARE supporters of the club. Their personal perspective is that the so-called ’balanced perspective’ of understanding and optimism you espouse is simply acceptance of mediocrity, when we desparately need to be seeing a whole lot more if we are really to make progress.
And statements like this don’t help: "Every time a paper report on someone we have been chasing doesn’t come off, everyone blames one of our own with such bile and venom." ... Really? Every time? Everyone?? Bile and venom??? I don’t think so, pal. In fact there are hardly any such mails on here. So why do you mis-state things to such an extent?
You go on and on about "negativity" and wanting some creative ideas, when your solution is to deny the reality of what has happened this summer and to convince yourself that the progress we have been making every year is somehow sufficient.
Here’s some history for you: Moyes got us from relegation candidates to the Champions League in just 3 seasons. That was progress. If the progress had been maintained, we could potentially be Championship winners by now. But it wasn’t. That is the real story of the last 4 years of Moyes’s reign — struggling to tread water near the front of the league also-rans.
21 Posted 29/08/2009 at 23:03:21
I also remember watching Cloughie's new Forest team come up and spank us 4-2 at home and win the league but we finished very high that season... I am sure someone can correct me on the actual score and finish...
I also remember very vividly sitting in the bath listening to old Radio Two and hearing Inchy score that goal by intercepting the back pass in the Milk Cup and then we went on to dominate from there, incidentally at that stage we were down to 16,500 fans at some of our home games then.
Some of us kept the faith then and I do now and I believe we can win the league soon with the way we are going.
When the Boo Boys got to Terry Daracott, I was one of his defenders and one of the first to start singing in the Gladys Street, "Oh Terry Trerry, Terry Terry Terry Darracot" when he started playing really well... because I wanted our team to feel supported and wanted to do my bit to support the club.
So when Carly says "Keep the Faith" then so do I and will now start to fight the cause for all Evertonians that want to feel good about our team and not hear constant negative comments.
We have won through a tough qualifier and now are in the Europa League ...
I have just watched two wonderful interviews with Distin and Bilyaletdinov on Everton (more progress).
I have also just watched you slag me off for claptrap with the same venom and emotion people are throwing negatives at our club.
I also believe that we will get one or two more signings in the next 48 hours or so.
Generally speaking Michael you will know that it is so easy for people to make comments that slag other people off and do posts that are negative, it is far more difficult for someone like myself or Carly who are generally quiet and surf and do not get involved in the argy bargy of forums like this to keep quiet and let the loud mouths have their say.
But just like Carly, and I feel many others out there, I feel there has been too much negative and not enough balanced views and I for one will not keep quiet any longer and if people like yourself Michael want to claim I am talking claptrap then so be it. I am going to keep fighting the cause for Everton and the quiet Evertonians that have to put up with all this over-the-top, uncalled for and quite honestly hurtful personal stuff thrown at the people who are doing a great job for this great club.
"Dithering Dave" etc etc etc.
22 Posted 29/08/2009 at 23:42:38
As for your calls for balance in the debate about Bill, the board and the future of Everton and claiming that your being censored; this is self-pity. Here is another fact for you, Bill is not loved by a majority of blues, he is hated and hated for very good reasons.
23 Posted 30/08/2009 at 09:57:19
Sorry mate, Ihave to pick you up on that one.
Not sure where you are getting it but I have not said anything in my posts about BK not putting any money in. I have also not appologised for him.
I have also said look at the facts of progress - not european domination - but steady progress. 5th, 6th with a 4th thrown in and a squad that is now transformed from Walters10 CB’s and a hand full of pensioners in the team.
We have a sound platform with the youth system, new state of the art training centre in finch farm and improved web site, ETV and are the envy of many fans around the country that point to our stability", "consstency" and so forth.
I am not saying not all of the criticism is wide of the mark, particularly of BK, he can come out with the annoying boys pen and over promising "watch this space" kind of patter - but castigating him is not going to get us anywhere.
I agree with your original post that we can always need new ideas and approaches to build on what we are being successful with, but lets not throw the good progress away with say a new owner
Let me ask you specifically - if you were in charge would you:
Change the transfer policy?
Would you change the finacial policy of ing careful but trying where possible to punch above our weight with loans to get more and better players in but not going to far as to throw us into the leeds, portsmouth situation?
Would you sell to someone like Mike ashley, the icelandic guy or some of the more unpredictable and unsavoury arabs, russians or a couple of american chancers like across the park?
keeping personalities out of it what would be your view on these things?
I do feel the premier league is ready for a shake up and the red shxxe are bang in line for a Leeds fall - I for one do not want to risk having our club ruined by an unknowln and potentially very risky new owner that could put us in a Luton, Leeds, Southamption, Newcastle, West Ham situation.
24 Posted 30/08/2009 at 11:41:01
If your raising the issue of finances, Steve, your wrong again. Everton are skint and with each passing year the squad is getting smaller and smaller as the club has to sell to buy and keep the banks from calling in their loans.
As for the we are afraid of new owners conservatism, well thats understandable, until you decide to face reality. These foreign owners and Mike Ashley, put their own money in their clubs something that the current board have not done.
25 Posted 30/08/2009 at 15:52:16
Go on, read them again and answer them or admit you have no answers and that the current set of strategies that BK and DM are following have certain merit — how much merit I will leave to you but they do have considerable merit and results.
I will respect what you have written and deal with each of your points. I have not appologised for anything and in adition the progress and success I refer to does not require an apology — work in progress, yes... but steady progress.
Again, ignoring your spin, you will find that mine is the silent majority view for your numbers talk to many Evertonians do not just read the ranters on here.
Finances in every club is always a balance of how far can you invest and spend given the revenue, market fees for transfers and wages — it is a truism of football that you will spend as much as you can on improving the playing side plus a little bit more depending on view of how much debt the balance sheet can bear, usually assessed by the bank or other financing bodies. So nothing new there.
Contrary to your statement that the squad is getting smaller and smaller, the squad is actually getting stronger and stronger both from home grown talent — Rodwell brilliant today by the way — but also we are attracting some of Europe's top talent.
In fact, the numbers that can represent us are increasing when you recognise that the youth coming through are making considerable contribution — remember the defining goal of our FA Cup run last season, by Gosling, no longer potential but making a difference against our local rivals — as he did on Thursday night.
We have 26 players that I am proud of and some of an age that will pay dividends in the years to come. If we get 2/3 more befroe the window closes we could be near the 30 mark. By the way, the reality of foriegn or Ashley type owners is that they fail regularly. Take Chelsea out and then I am lost to name anyone that has made the kind of progress we have made.
Come on, David, or any of the other poster that feels agreived at my stance on negative posts — come up with alternative strategies and suggest them — I implore you to support this great club and see what progress we are making or at least, recognise the positives as well as the negatives/errors by the Board et al.
26 Posted 30/08/2009 at 22:03:36
Thats without Arteta and The Yak to come!
That in itself is a warming thought.
27 Posted 30/08/2009 at 22:24:30
Until you face reality and accept the need for a change, there is no point in continuing this deabte.
Silent Majority, Richard Nixon came up with that one, says it all really.
28 Posted 30/08/2009 at 23:45:28
You are out of your depth .. here is a cut and paste of my post above ... it is obvious you do not read them
so I repeat...
"Let me ask you specifically - if you were in charge would you:
Change the transfer policy?
Would you change the finacial policy of managing carefully but trying where possible to punch above our weight with loans to get more and better players in but not going to far as to throw us into the leeds, portsmouth situation?
Would you sell to someone like Mike ashley, the icelandic guy or some of the more unpredictable and unsavoury arabs, russians or a couple of american chancers like across the park?
keeping personalities out of it what would be your view on these things?""
and you call me pathetic ...
come on answer the questions!!
or get off this site and stop posting pathetic rancid rants!!
29 Posted 31/08/2009 at 00:16:19
Kirkby is not a solution to the stadium problem.
The club is skint and will be selling our best players to keep the club afloat and fund new purchases. That is the current policy.
The Board have not invested a single penny in EFC.
As for the question about a change of ownership. That is a loaded question that I will not answer.
However, Steve, I will support the idea of a change of regime at GP.
You're a timewaster and like Tricky Dicky Nixon a thoroughly dishonest individual considering the wording of your question regarding the change of ownership.
Out of my depth? With your head alternating between the sand and Billy’s arse, how the fuck would you know?
30 Posted 31/08/2009 at 08:36:23
The reality is this squad is improving so admit it!!
I do not believe Kirby is being executed right, nor the best solution but on the other questions I do think we have the right approach to stability and consistency.
We have sold two notables in several years — Joleon and Wayne — Man U lost two this window.
We are no longer a selling club unless it is on very favourable terms.
Just recognise some of positives and I and others will take more seriously any of the negatives — but expect to be challenged on what is the next level of your analysis on those issues and short comings and what you would like to see happen.
Otherwise yes, myself and others will see that you and other posters that shout facile negatives as out of their depth and not worthy of our great club.
How can there be an any sort of quality debate without talking about the real issues. Finance, player and squad strategy as outlined in my questions to you...
What would you do if you were running the club? I for one would probabaly be following the strategies we are on the playing front and probably trying to get an alternative to Kirby whilst loking to do a combination of a fans rights issue and looking for investment from someone that would protect the history and culture of Everton FC.
What would you do?
31 Posted 31/08/2009 at 12:12:58
You're asking me to recognise positives, ok then: David Moyes, happy now. You appear to have lumped in critics of Bill with critics of Moyes, well Steve it's possible to back one and be against another; this is called nuance.
I also noted that you have shifted the goalposts on the ownership isssue. Moving from abusing many of these new foreign owners and the hapless Mike Ashley to calling for a new owner "to protect the culture and history of EFC". So you would want a regime change to your liking.
Sadly you misunderstand the culture and history of EFC; it is based on competing and winning trophies. This is what EFC did in the 1960s, 70s, 80s and for the last time 1995. The club has been failing to live up to its culture as expressed in that latin motto of Nil satis nisi optimum meaning nothing but the best is good enough. Using your own logic — Bill and his board are not protecting the clubs culture and history.
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