Looking at the title, some fans will get the impression it's an attempt to get a mass protest against Bill Kenwright. It is not. Although I have no respect for the man, I have no wish to create further unrest at our club.
In times of crisis — and I believe we are very close to that description right now — the only solution is for those with calm and clear heads to establish a way forward that will unite everybody behind the plan.
Destination Kirkby clearly was never that but I hear some people say "Well, it was all we can afford." Absolute bollocks. Any proposal that carries a good return on investment is affordable and, in my opinion, DK never was.
Now that brings me to the title, "People Power".
All marketeers will base their calculations on the number of people their "product" will reach. Now for me that presents a problem as well as an opportunity for EFC.
For a start, with average attendances of around 36,000, no season ticket waiting list and very few sell-out games, Everton's matchgoing support is obviously not enticed by what's on offer. Therefore some thinking outside the box will be necessary.
Although 36,000 gates will not exactly fill EFC's bank account it is very attractive to the likes of breweries, hotel groups, restaurant groups in fact any commercial entity that can see an opportunity from 36,000 people at least once a fortnight added to the number of people residing in or visiting Merseyside.
Although there has been a fiscal tightening of belts there is still plenty of cash around waiting to be invested, what with pension funds, investment funds, etc and companies with cash so. I do not accept that there is no money other than TESCO available to us.
There are 2 other myths I would like to take this opportunity to put to bed:
- Goodison Park will cost £230 million to develop
Utter garbage perpetrated by those with a vested interest in Destination Kirkby. In 2001 a study was done to redevelop GP by a top engineering group who estimated a cost of £40 million. OK, so construction costs have gone up, but not 500% in 8 years.
In addition, Tom Hughes (an experienced engineer) has constantly posted how GP can be developed for around the cost of DK.
- "Only Newcastle supporters buy shirts" — Bill Kewnright
I throw that one in because the level of thinking at board level shows they do not have the vision nor enthusiasm to take us forward.
Besides a ground share which is the common sense way forward but tinged with emotional problems I believe there are still a number of affordable options available to us.
- Redevelop GP
- Look at detailed proposals for the Loop.
- Invite Sainsbury and the council in for talks re Walton Hall Park possibilities.
- Look at the Docklands area.
- (Off the wall) Create a "Football" disneyland across GP, Stanley Park and Anfield.
All of these have significant commercial opportunities so would attract interest from commercial investors.
One final note on funding returning to the value of "People Power" EFC could issue bonds in the new stadium development so that fans with money available could also invest.
Our future needs visionary thinking so to Elstone, Kenwright, Bradley et al: Get it sorted out now!
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1 Posted 27/11/2009 at 18:30:08
I don’t think any of the options you cite are affordable to Everton right now and each pose their own significant problems — Goodison’s footprint, NIMBY opposition at Walton Hall Park, real estate at the Loop, lack of remaining available openings in the Docklands given Peel Holdings’ stated reluctance to include football stadia in their plans, etc.
Kirkby was never the right answer but the club’s challenges remain as real as they were after the Kings Dock collapsed and "getting it sorted" will be a Herculean task.
2 Posted 27/11/2009 at 20:49:56
Well, Jay, now’s the time - "get it sorted" yourself if it’s all so blindingly obvious what needs to be done. Harness some of your "people power" and we’ll soon be back at the summit of English, nay, European football, won’t we?
Oh, and one word of advice - using crass, childish expressions like "Analfiled" says far, far more about why you should never be taken seriously as an adult than I could ever explain.
3 Posted 27/11/2009 at 21:18:19
At some point people will finally have to wake up and face this very painful truth. Obviously it’s going to take a little longer yet. Perhaps when we are still sitting in GP and Moyes and many of our best players have left.
4 Posted 27/11/2009 at 21:45:16
5 Posted 27/11/2009 at 21:55:55
6 Posted 27/11/2009 at 22:16:36
7 Posted 27/11/2009 at 21:46:48
I can picture him leading a motley collection of KEIOC and Gavin and Tony and the usual crowd of back-stabbing bastards (er, sorry about that Tonyism creeping in there...) prancing behind St Vinnies band to the Z-Cars ,tune waving banners that proclaim a deep and undying love of all things blue as, dodging dogshit, they wend their victorious way to their beloved Goodison. Oops, another Tonyism crept in there.
8 Posted 27/11/2009 at 23:09:36
Neil, you for one, were baniging the drum about Tesco funding at one point in the DK debate.
You all might be surprised to find its not only Tesco that has ambition and money.
I know we need OUTSIDE investment and with the right project I am sure we will find it but all attractive investments start with "LOCATION, Location, location".
Dick, I would like you to point out how from a few posts in ToffeeWeb I created unrest in the club and got the result I crave.
Kirkby was dead in the water the day it was thought of and with very little persuasion from anti-DKites was exposed for the farce it was by the planning inspectorate.
Any unrest between supporters and the club lies solely at the feet of the current board.
9 Posted 28/11/2009 at 01:04:34
10 Posted 28/11/2009 at 02:45:35
11 Posted 28/11/2009 at 03:21:09
Everton do need a new ground, or a phased redevelopment of Goodison. If I were a betting man, I think Peel will now talk to the club about Central Docks. We may well get the waterfront stadium we were promised. But, continuing my betting streak, I think there will have to be a change of ownership before those discussions can develop further.
Despite what people on here think, LCC never wanted Everton to leave the city (I know that Walton isn’t technically the city, and Kirkby has an L postcode). There had to be a willingness to engage, and due to Tesco Terry’s exclusivity handcuffs, that couldn’t happen. Also, LCC bent over backwards for us to get the King’s Waterfront site (and I worked on that). It was our current custodian that allegedly wound people up.
The DK fiasco was doomed from the start because it broke every planning rule in the book - but Tesco have been bending the rules (to suit them - and ultimately their shareholders) for years. DK was a step too far. KMBC were patsy’s. It was never going to go through, but thanks to the bad advice, that’s another few million down the tube on consultants fees etc.
We, as passionate fans, deserve so much better. That’s all that I ask for. Is it too much?
12 Posted 28/11/2009 at 04:05:30
13 Posted 28/11/2009 at 07:17:55
After all these years of debate, for people to be still coming on here and talking as if we have lots of affordable options that will now magically open up to us after Kirkby and the dreaded exclusivity agreement - it makes me want to scream with frustration.
People still don’t get it, and now they are going to have to learn the hard and painful way. Elstone can’t say a sentence at the moment without using the words "money", "finance" or "affordability". He’s practically begging for someone to come forward and give us some money, it’s pitiful to watch. That’s because he knows what the books look like.
More dreamy hopes from Kenwright or ignorant musings from Moyes make no difference. Sure, something or someone might just turn up that might get us out of our current hole. But very probably that will not happen. At least not now for a few years until we get to the other side of the current financial crisis. By then I think we might have fallen rather a long way behind. Let’s hope not.
14 Posted 28/11/2009 at 07:59:41
What’s the big problem with slipping a few snide comments into a column on an Everton fansite about the R/S in the build up to a derby?
15 Posted 28/11/2009 at 09:33:43
16 Posted 28/11/2009 at 09:58:28
Last time I looked we had very little money, no affordable options, a failed and demoralised leadership, and were pretty unattractive to any potential new owners. The reasons to be cheerful are?
17 Posted 28/11/2009 at 10:12:43
18 Posted 28/11/2009 at 10:20:49
Well we’re not going to Kirkby! It may have been our only affordable option Neil, but an affordable mistake is still a fuckin mistake.
19 Posted 28/11/2009 at 10:35:21
20 Posted 28/11/2009 at 11:29:17
21 Posted 28/11/2009 at 11:07:03
Obviously, it’s not just those of Arabian descent that will have lost with World markets dropping. Post drawn out Abu Dhabi bail out people will be looking to invest - and on the flip side we might look like an interesting prospect then as we’ll be a bit more desperate and European.
Anyway, I’m waffling... and we might just get bought before 2010 - just don’t expect any kind of Disneyland soon.
22 Posted 28/11/2009 at 11:51:04
23 Posted 28/11/2009 at 11:48:39
You kept on saying that Kirkby was ’Affordable’ without realising it WAS NOT DELIVERABLE which was one of the mantras of our Chairman.
It was never gonna happen.
You were duped like every over sheep at our club.
We all know we have fuck all money. That’’s why we never spend more than what we get back in transfers.
God knows where we would be now without Moyes taking us to 6th, 5th and 5th with all the ’prize’ money that brings.
Get Kenwright out. He’s worse than PJ ever was.
24 Posted 28/11/2009 at 13:18:49
Fine just rebuild half of it then Fuck Off.
We can all stop arguing and worrying, and in three seasons time we’re in a far better position than we are now.
New Invester comes in, he only has the hassle of half a stadium and will have a current ground with better corporate crap and capcity of mid to late 40k.
Otherwise, all that will happen in 3 seasons is that we may have found a site in bloody Skem or Cronton, only to mess it up 2 years on from that again, and we haven’t progressed an inch ad wasted more money on botched up schemes.
25 Posted 28/11/2009 at 14:26:29
Anyway I think some of Jay’s ideas are good but undeliverable due to the club’s lack of funds. Innovation used to be a byword at the club and the idea of some amalgated venture for off field activities be it concerts, corporates, housing the David France collection which is relevent to both clubs with stadia either side of it or one mega stadium as part of it. Who is to say out there somewhere isn’t someone with a completely new idea to deliver a football stadium. New things don’t come from copying what’s already been built.
26 Posted 28/11/2009 at 14:45:09
It was a bet that didn’t come off. But as we will now stew in the lack of affordable alternatives, we might well come to see the attempt a little differently.
27 Posted 28/11/2009 at 15:17:37
"They need to be stabilised, improved and expanded. As everyone knows, the club doesn’t currently have a chairman or a board in a position to do those things."
Surely, these comments display clearly to all Kenwright lovers this man is admitting his own (and the Board's) incompetence. Any other individual admitting they can't do their job would lose said job!!!
28 Posted 28/11/2009 at 15:22:44
Neil, have you been in a coma this week? They have invested millions in a scheme that would not get approved, but they thought differently. However, they have a Plan B having bought Kirkby town centre — that is the difference between Tesco and Everton.
29 Posted 28/11/2009 at 16:58:49
it was a mighty expensive bet.
£4.5 million in lost fees and another few years wasted with GP allowed to further deteriorate.
Considering you harp on about our lack of money I would have thought you’d have picked on that one.
30 Posted 28/11/2009 at 17:26:52
31 Posted 28/11/2009 at 17:49:58
The book being closed on the Kirkby plan had nothing to do with the wishes of Everton supporters, but instead the political wrangling between local authorities, the national government and a massive company called Tesco. As far as I can gather, there was no objection in principle to the building of a football stadium in Knowsley.
Frank - the Grosvenor Estates thing? Can you expand for us?
Anthony - you clearly haven’t worked out that he can’t lose his job until someone else buys the club as he is the owner. That will be called "investment". I prefer the term benefaction.
Jay - Breweries, hotel groups and restaurants want to invest in Walton? Name names please. And if my pension fund goes there I will buy my three acres and a cow tomorrow.
32 Posted 28/11/2009 at 19:05:04
33 Posted 28/11/2009 at 19:05:20
Tescos have a Plan B (and C-Z) for the simple reason that they are one of the UK’s most successful and richest companies. If we were one tenth as rich as them, we would have lots of alternatives too. That’s the point.
Jay, the fees were what was necessary to go after the only affordable option we had. I agree - the club’s management called it wrong that it would be approved. The extent to which they ’wasted’ two years is not clear. Let’s now see what else we can afford to do. As you know, I am not holding my breath.
34 Posted 28/11/2009 at 20:27:18
I read the Observer last weekend (for a change). Everton made it in three sections, sports pages, Rodwell made it into their gorgeous top ten in the colour supplement and their magazine featured Walton as the most run down, deprived, constituency, in the land.
I’m not making this stuff up.
So, as I ask Jay, who are these hoteliers that want to buy out those little chippies around the Old Lady to provide £200 a night to accommodate our visitors to the game? I might have thought that more brewers (Jay again) were moving out of the area than moving into it. That’s what is happening in almost every place in England.
35 Posted 28/11/2009 at 20:42:55
36 Posted 28/11/2009 at 20:58:56
As I recall the judgement was against the business park, not the football stadium (in principle). So Toffees can give investment advice to the mighty Tesco. Perhaps we should be owning our own club.
37 Posted 28/11/2009 at 21:22:09
38 Posted 28/11/2009 at 22:20:55
There is an old saying: "Follow the Money and Influence" and you will get pretty close to the facts. Hope this helps...
39 Posted 28/11/2009 at 23:29:18
I believe the village of Belgravia, between Chester and Wrexham, gave its name to that district of London, actually Westminster, of the same name. An old mate of mine used to meet Gerald, the 6th Duke thereof on account of his charitable brief. He said he was a nice guy. More likely to invest, if that’s the right word, in Chester than us.
I’m still waiting for Jay’s list of brewers, hoteliers and restauranteurs who want to take advantage of the clientele that Walton affords at least once a fortnight or sometimes more.
40 Posted 29/11/2009 at 00:17:33
We have had the Sky money and spunked it and now it is difficult to see where to turn next. Villa, Spurs to name but two clubs have managed to change their grounds into half decent — why can’t we?
41 Posted 29/11/2009 at 09:20:01
I am much less interested in the past about Kirkby (that’s gone) than the future. And if you think the future is promising, you simply don’t understand the financial condition we are in.
42 Posted 29/11/2009 at 23:50:49
43 Posted 30/11/2009 at 19:21:34
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