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Kirkby Chapter is Closed?

By Christine Foster :  27/11/2009 :  Comments (57) :

In the past few days, we have had the key executives of the club comment that the decision on Destination Kirkby will enable the split fan base to come together once more to David Moyes's personal perspective that he believes the decision may be a good thing for the club in finding investment and a new buyer.... My how a week changes one's perspective.

But by far the most annoying comes from the man himself: Bill Kenwright. "The Kirkby Chapter is closed".

Well, I have news for you, Mr Kenwright: It most certainly isn't closed. Under your stewardship, this club entered into an arrangement with Tesco that excluded all others, on the basis of a flawed scheme that would always fail legally. You were found out taking a gamble.

You and your Board must shoulder the blame for becoming involved in the first place, for causing the derisive split of the fan base that has set fan against fan and fan against the club. Your responsibility.

You have derided fans, gagged shareholders and ridiculed anyone who dared speak out or offer alternative solutions. Even when you saw the promises made sliced and diced to nothing you persisted.

Now, I ask you: Why should we, the supporters of this great club, get behind you, our leader? What respect have you shown us over the last few years?

And I ask you, Why should we have any confidence in the NEXT scheme you put on the table?

You have taken this club and made it a laughing stock in the city, washed our dirty linen in public and failed to lead us anywhere but Kirkby.

I woke up yesterday to find the rumours about the decision on Kirkby turned into fact. There was no joy in that decision, only relief. No joy because the wasted time and effort and money involved could have been used to explore and entice new owners or other alternatives.

Anyone looking at the club during the Kirkby debacle would think (correctly) that the club is in a mess, the fan base split and the executive are steamrolling a dubious option to the exclusion of everything else.

Hardly looking attractive was it?

I think David Moyes may well be closer to the mark when he says it could help the club. At least it gives anyone coming in to shape it their way. That has to be a plus.

Finally, I hope BK moves on to the things he knows best and leaves with good grace. Then the chapter will be closed.

Reader Comments

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Matt Traynor
1   Posted 28/11/2009 at 05:39:32

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Understand your sentiments Christine, but a post-mortem will not happen.

I believe BK will now move on - the game has become so money-orientated over the past 20 years that he simply is out of his depth financially (and maybe in other areas!)

I honestly believe that with the DK chapter closed, BK will now listen to buyers (note: not investors). We’re back to the start on the stadium issue, but we may see new plans emerge quickly (Peel / Central Docks).

Watch this space (sorry!)
Dan Brierley
2   Posted 28/11/2009 at 05:03:01

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Christine, can you tell me in which article Moyes states that the rejection of DK could help the club?

Whilst the writing style of your articles might suggest that you are somehow more ’in the know’ than others, I remain 100% sure that in fact you actually know fuck all, like the rest of us.

What you are saying, is that BK should now move over and let someone else have a go. Well congratulations on this impressive assessment, but this is something the rest of the site have already been discussing for a long time. I think nobody except maybe Doddy believe it is time for a change of board. This is not a revelation. But as always, your articles state the obvious, focusing on BK as some kind of anti-christ. Your tone insinuates that running a football club is somehow easy, and BK has completely cocked it up.

"You have taken this club and made it a laughing stock in the city, washed our dirty linen in public and failed to lead us anywhere but Kirkby."

So our club was in a great position when he took over? Can you honestly say we are worse off under BK’s stewardship? Let me remind you of something that you have refused to acknowledge in your article, under Bill Kenwright Everton Football Club have undoubtedly improved.

What annoys me about your articles, is how you continuously drone on about BK, but very rarely discuss anything to do with football.
Dave Wilson
3   Posted 28/11/2009 at 07:17:06

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Moyes didn't use the word rejection, he used the word decision. Just like Christine did.

Christine has a point, we all kinda feel let down here, it's not just the Yes voters who feel cheated, despite the relief felt by the people who voted No — we are all losers here. Two years lost and millions of pounds down the toilet is not good news for any Evertonian.
Neil Pearse
4   Posted 28/11/2009 at 07:35:32

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Christine, I agree with you on this: Kenwright has to go as soon as a new decent owner appears. As Dan says: apart from Doddy, who disagrees? He was too poor and out of his depth before Kirkby; now he is all the same but has just had another crushingly big failure. Of course he has to go as soon as someone is found who is not like most of the other charlatans and conmen who have taken over Premier League clubs.

The problem of course is how unattractive a proposition the club is now, needing an expensive new ground, and in the middle of a global recession.

Moyes might be best advised to stick to talking about matters on the pitch. Someone mega wealthy might well want to start with a club where there are no ideas and a clean slate. But even the Abu Dhabi boys bought a club which already had a new ground.
Matt Traynor
5   Posted 28/11/2009 at 08:06:38

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Dave is spot on about how we all feel. Neil I agree with over Moyes sticking to matters on the pitch - fuck knows we need it.

A director of one of the companies involved in the whole process emailed me asking if I was happy about it (he was - he’s a season ticket holder, and we used to go to the away games together when I lived in the UK. I also worked for them).

Like many who have already commented, I didn’t feel euphoria, just shrugged my shoulders, as I knew a year ago it was screwed. And as I pointed out to my mate, at least their 3 years of fees were all paid up...

It was exactly the same with King’s Waterfront Development. Only that was far worse cos we really did miss out on the deal of the century with that.
Dave Wilson
6   Posted 28/11/2009 at 07:59:39

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Elstone and Moyes are both calling upon LCC to come up with a site, given their history do you feel Kenwright + LCC could ever sit down together ?

My worry is it could be some time before a buyer comes in and the frosty relationship between the council and our chairman may hinder any sort of progress
Neil Pearse
7   Posted 28/11/2009 at 08:16:48

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Totally agree Dave. I think the past will definitely hinder any progress. Clearly our club now needs a fresh start in terms of leadership at the top.

As you know, one of my reasons for supporting Kirkby was to get rid of Kenwright, Now I am less optimstic. The question now is whether there is anyone decent around with any serious interest in the club given its large investment needs in the current environment. Kenwright and the other owners will hopefully now settle a la Ashley for a discounted price (although it didn’t help Ashley). But the reality is that the cost of buying the club will be less than the cost of building a new ground. There’s the rub.

Perhaps at least Elstone is not too tarred with the past, so that might help. But our problem is poverty, nothing much else. Amazing how much easier it is to have good relationships with people if you have a lot of money.
Dave Wilson
8   Posted 28/11/2009 at 08:43:36

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I was listening to Pete Winkleman (MK Dons) on the radio yesterday, he's not my cup of tea, but you have to hand it to him, he’s fucken irrepressible. He’s not a billionaire but he has managed to persuade an awful lot of people to invest in his vision, the word "can't" doesn't seem to be in his vocabulary.

I hate what this guy did, but in his desire to do it, he has overcome many formidable obstacles.

Milton Keynes wasn't even on the football map a decade ago, yet who’d bet against him bringing the Olympics and Premier League football there now?

Maybe we should be looking for a Winkleman rather than an Abromovich...
Adam Baig
9   Posted 28/11/2009 at 09:06:57

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Yes, but on the OS, Kenwright chooses his words very carefully.... He alwaqys talks of ’investment’ and that he will ’step aside’.

Do the decent thing Bill, and ’sell’ and ’step down’.
Richard Jones
10   Posted 28/11/2009 at 09:25:58

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Beautiful article Christine, there are a lot of bitter Kenwright supporters on here today dressing it all up very diplomatically. I would just like to say as a staunch anti DK guy, I am fully behind any group that wants to get rid of the CURRENT CHARLATAN. Who has wasted everyone's time, effort, energy and caused a whole lot of bad feeling, it wasn’t DELIVERABLE after all.
Christine Foster
11   Posted 28/11/2009 at 09:15:29

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Dan Brierley, I have on numerous occasions put articles on this site that were specifically about the team, football in general and other matters not related to BK or Kirkby, but I do not for one moment think you are interested in hearing that.

No, I tend to look at information and put my own perspective on it, it's called an opinion, Dan. I have never suggested that I know more than I do, I try to give an insight that's all. But then one has to encounter the people like you who want to ignore facts and look to abuse the person because they can’t argue their opinion. Fair enough. Everyone is entitled to their view on life.

But at least I nailed my colours to the mast and have stuck by them from the beginning. My view has always been that the management of this club let a lot to be desired, that we had been railroaded into a Hobson's Choice decision and continually duped.

At last the page on Kirkby has been seen for what it was, a sham, an opportunistic land grab by Tesco that bulldozed planning regulations by the use of combining an emotive issue such as the new home of Everton Football club.

That our club's executive went along with it either shows that they knew all along they were on thin ice or were incompetent. Which one was it?

Now, we really are between a rock and a hard place, after the exec has done such a good job of destroying any rational for staying at Goodison, how can they switch and say it's the best alternative? Reality says right now it's the only alternative.

But my point of the article was that lack of management, the splitting of the fan base and the utter futility of Kirkby has demonstrated that I for one do not have any faith in the present Board of Directors or Chairman to find a workable solution.

Richard Dodd asked "What if...?" — that's now progressed to "What now...?" I prefer to look at this with the hope that we we ask "What Could Be...?"

The damage was done, the faith was lost. That BK would so quickly want it forgotten is a disgrace in itself and speaks volumes (Let's bury it quick so everyone will forget what was done and said...).

And Adam, well spotted... I too saw the reference to investment, not sale.

Neil, Poverty has been your catchphrase a long time and I agree, we do not have the financial clout to pitch a tent let alone a stadium, but there needs to be a different approach to funding, a different partnership and a different take on how we can go forward. I think the current incumbents have run out of idea (singular).

Neil Pearse
12   Posted 28/11/2009 at 09:36:33

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You are right Rich, and it is only fair to acknowledge that it wasn’t deliverable after all. Betting on Tescos was hardly crazy since they usually win, but the bet didn’t come off, and of course that means that the current ownership and management screwed up.

Of course, whether anything else is deliverable, and whether a new owner - charlatan or not - will be interested in taking over a club with huge investment needs in a crumbling stadium... Well, hopefully you will turn out to be right about those things too, we will see.
Dan Brierley
13   Posted 28/11/2009 at 09:27:46

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You are right guys, I am sure the relationship between BK and the council is pretty frosty. That said, Neil makes the point which matters most. It doesn’t matter who we talk to, we haven’t got enough money to build a stadium by ourselves, even if the council give us the land for free.

We need another enablement opportunity, someone who is going to subsidise our building costs, and will benefit from having a football stadium in close proximity to whatever they are building.
Neil Pearse
14   Posted 28/11/2009 at 09:40:12

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Christine - Poverty has indeed been my catchphrase and, until we get a richer new owner, it unfortunately will remain so. I will be as delighted as anyone on this site if this person appears and Kenwright can at last hand in the keys and go back to concentrating on his musicals.
Dan Brierley
15   Posted 28/11/2009 at 09:41:54

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I understand Christine, I have no problem with you having an opinion. I just dont know how many different ways you can make your point of not liking Kenwright!

I am just wondering if any investment groups were poised to take us over had DK been agreed. At least last week, we had some kind of plan. Now, we are staring at a bleak future. The club seem to be still quite optimistic, but is this just putting on a brave face? It's hard to gauge just how deep in the shit we are.
Dave Davies
16   Posted 28/11/2009 at 09:44:19

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Anyone who thinks there wont be far reaching ramifications for the ownership of the club with the DK decision is kidding themselves.

The genie can’t go back in the bottle. Kenwright and the rest on the board cant avoid the fact they are now so lacking in credibility that even their own manager goes rogue and begs on tv for someone to relieve them of their positions.

The nature of the game has fundamentally changed now. It’s just that were all stupefied at the moment in the wake of ’the decision’. We are still in ’facility led’ strategy mode and that hasn’t altered one jot after Denham’s Coup de Grace. Who in God’s name is going to take the current board seriously (investors/partners...supporters!) if they proffer another stadium development? That’s right — no one.

I’m optimistic. I think we stand at the threshold of an era that offers our club a decent chance of surviving and more besides AND retaining our identity (the most precious thing we have, lest we forget). The future begins when the current *ahem* custodians take realistic offers for their shareholdings seriously. I feel the pressure on them will build and build until that point is reached. Their demise as a regime is assured.
Dan Brierley
17   Posted 28/11/2009 at 09:55:05

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Neil, come on you should already know. Poverty is no excuse, real world logic doesn’t seem to apply to running football clubs.

The same applies to sickness. In the real world, it is accepted that staff being off work has a detrimental impact on the performance of the business. This also does not apply to football clubs.

I think I am getting the hang of this..... ;-)
Richard Jones
18   Posted 28/11/2009 at 10:39:03

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I seem to remember us being part of the big five in 89... who joined the board then, I wonder?
Graeme Bradman
19   Posted 28/11/2009 at 10:24:06

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The speed at which BK said that the Kirkby chapter was closed probably reflects his own relief that it was turned down. BK never wanted Kirkby but allowed Wyness to drag us into an exclusivity agreement that has stifled discusion regarding alternatives. He is probably mighty relieved.

What is worrying about BK is he did not have the the foresight to see the weakneses in DK a lot earlier. Although they could not say so at the time, I am sure that both BK and Elstone will have realised the problems (finding £78 million, no transport plan), and may be thinking that Mr Denham has in some ways got them out of jail.

Dave Wilson
20   Posted 28/11/2009 at 10:42:20

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Sickness in football is very different from sickness in business, if a wagon driver or a warehouse guy can't make it to work he doesn't have someone earning thousands a week ready to step in for him.
Richard Jones
21   Posted 28/11/2009 at 10:47:29

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I think you are being very generous there Graeme, if you read the articles over the last two days he is still talking investment not buyers. No I’m sorry mate the buck stops with him for me.
Christine Foster
22   Posted 28/11/2009 at 10:47:22

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Graeme I think that their naivety and the fact it was Tesco really made BK in particular oblivious to the facts in the proposal and the undoubted shortcomings. There is a saying over here, "She’ll be right.." This one never could.

Elstone on the other hand is a different animal, toeing the company line and saying the right words is one thing but I bet you he has been ready for this call more than anyone else.

He has shown commercial saavy and obviously does read these pages so he knows that the fans are not as gullible as the board or Tesco would hope. I just hope he can apply his skills in a proactive rather than merely a supporting player in what ever comes next.
Phil Bellis
23   Posted 28/11/2009 at 11:18:30

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Still at it, eh Dan?
Yes, we’re struggling mainly because our only ’flair;’ player(s) is/are absent
As Moyes himself hinted (won’t say stated in case you’ve got a transcript handy)
it’s not the people off sick who are the problem
Since when does having players missing mean the remainder ...
can’t pass a ball to a team-mate?;
turn their backs on play in the area?
play like they’ve never trained together?

The lack of movement, ambition and cash by this Board in the summer gone has contributed to the shambles we are seeing on the pitch. Or don’t you agree?
Ryan Holroyd
24   Posted 28/11/2009 at 11:29:05

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Great post Christine although I fear we’re not going to be rid of BK any time soon.

He is slowly, but surely, destroying our great club. Words can’t describe how much I detest that man.

He will hang on until the death so his ego remains.

Kirkby in my opionion was a fucking sham, it was never gonna get passed. BK fucking gambled and he got it wrong yet again.

It’s funny how BK hardly ever spoke about Kirkby when it was ongoing, when it was never gonna get passed.

He knew it was a fucking sham like FSF. ’A means to an end’ as Ian Ross once said.

But as soon as it’s over he’s saying the chapter is closed.

Well the chapter about kirkby may be over but the kenwright chapter will not be closed until that man, that chancer is out of Everton.

Agent Kenshite.
Colin Malone
25   Posted 28/11/2009 at 13:54:54

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Bill's trying to get out of a deep hole by trying to play his ace card in the joint stadium proposal, when we all know that ace card is a joker.

Investers, sorry for my ignorance but does this word mean buyer/ for sale?

Again a MASSIVE thanks to KEIOC who overcame the lies of the club, the media/Echo, Radio Merseyside/City and others who were on the propaganda wagon to DK.
Mike Elbey
26   Posted 28/11/2009 at 14:20:47

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The fact that DK is finally over means that for the first time since Kirkby was brought to the table the club has a definitive value. Whilst we had the "will we?" / "won't we?" scenario it was impossible to value the club as, if DK had been given the go-ahead, then the value would have been far higher than it is now having had DK rejected.

That is what David Moyes is meaning when he says investors may now come forward. The people who have really lost out through the DK rejection are those who have a financial interest in the club as whilst we were still making a significant contribution to the scheme we were getting the stadium for roughly half price if figures are to be believed.

I believe Everton is an attractive investment with or without the new stadium and I have a feeling we will have new ownership before the start of next season — we will see...
Richard Dodd
27   Posted 28/11/2009 at 14:37:19

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The demise of Project DK gives Ms Foster yet another opportunity to give Blue Bill a kicking. How many times do we have to hear the same anti-Kenwright bile, Christine? Even your ’fans’ are getting sick of it.

However you paint the picture, Everton were — and still are — desperate for a new home, and Kirkby offered them that at what the club considered was an affordable price. Of course, King’s Dock was a much more attractive proposition but for reasons of his own — and not least because it would have put the club in hoc to the Greggs — Bill decided not to proceed. He may well rue that decision now but he was not alone in believing the deal did not stack up at the time.

As I said in my ’What happens if...’ piece a fortnight ago, I fear for the future of the club if Bill says enough is enough. Of course there will be Pompey-style sheiks anxious to snap up Everton for a song (and no doubt bring in a Sven to ’assist’ our Davey). But is that what you and your disciples really want for the club?

No chairman in the game is everybody’s cup of tea but, all in all, Bill does a good job for us and has brought a stability so lacking in about 90% of League clubs in this era. I always plead for patience, understanding and a little more loyalty to the cause. Any fool can knock — and my god, do you like knocking — just let’s see a little more of the Evertonian from you dear lady!

Gavin Ramejkis
28   Posted 28/11/2009 at 14:41:26

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A question which still needs to be answered is the true positioning of Phil Green in relation to ownership of the club. It was rumoured very strongly that the money to buy Gregg out by Earl also came from Phil Green.

I personally feel BK’s position is untenable as surely he has had enough false dawns and missed opportunities, but wanting him long gone and actually seeing him leave are miles apart without a massive groundswell similar to that for the forced departure of Peter Johnson.

Dan regarding the state of the club with Peter Johnson as opposed to the state of it with Bill Kenwright; you could say with PJ worse managers apart from Joe Royle but financially better, Bill Kenwright far better manager (but desperately needs to change defensive habits) but financially an absolute shambles in spite of better football and much more money from TV rights and higher finishes in the league and european football. You could argue about the rise in wages in line with the Sky money, but compared to other clubs we pay a whole lot less in salaries and have the smallest squad in the EPL.
Gavin Ramejkis
29   Posted 28/11/2009 at 15:00:15

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Richard, your so-called insiders have either given you wrong information ever since last season ended, you have been wrong on so many occasions it’s become a joke on these pages, or are you just a Walter Mittyesque fantasist.

Care to tell Christine and the rest of us which it is?

Richard Dodd
30   Posted 28/11/2009 at 15:13:20

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Why the hell does it matter where Robert Earl gets his money from, Gavin? Perhaps it was from his dad’s hit song,’I may never pass this way again’!

As far as misinformation is concerned, I don’t go out of my way — as so many do on this site — to plead doom and destruction at every opportunity. True, ’official sources’ are always inclined to put a positive spin on things (and perhaps I’m a little too gullible) but what’s wrong with seeing the bright side? Life’s full of woe and at least for me Everton is ray of sunshine — win or lose — DK or no DK. Get back to your misery room GR, you seem happiest there!

John Andrews
31   Posted 28/11/2009 at 16:22:15

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Now now Doddy don’t get your knickers in a twist.
"Billy Bullshit" is to most people an absolute charlatan whether you like it or not... and the sooner you get your head out of his arse, the better it will be for everybody.
Marc Williams
32   Posted 28/11/2009 at 16:53:22

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Richard, you say " Why does it matter where Robert Earl gets his money from ?" ....FFS Fella like DOH !!!

BTW is "gullible" a posh word for twat ?
Jay Harris
33   Posted 28/11/2009 at 17:04:07

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Doddy, if I were you, I’d keep a low profile right now... like Marshy does when we get a few wins. At least Marshy makes good reading and belives in what he says. You on the other hand seem to love pushing water uphill.

Kenwright is nothing but an incompetent liar and, although some people see the sun shining out of his arse, others see him for what he is. However, even those described as apologists are now beginning to see the cracks in his makeup.

As you’re so "well informed", you will know that all Gregg wanted for his £35 million contribution was some security or Bill to change the shareholding structure — he did not want to "hock" the club.

Then your "god" contrived "the check will be in the bank in the morning" Fortress Sports Fund as another of his smoke-&-mirrors tricks.

You will also know that the reason the club hasn't been sold is because Earl and Green were controlling the sale and NOTHING was going to happen until DK got the nod.

Did your inside sources reveal all that to you? Thought not!!
Alan Kirwin
34   Posted 28/11/2009 at 17:15:04

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Marc Williams, firstly 'gullible' is not a posh word. The first word perhaps betrays too much of a willingness to trust (naive at worst, but certainly not bad). While the latter word is perhaps what you are being with such smart arse comments.

And since when is "Doh!" an answer to a question? Short of drug smuggling, arms running & money laundering, why does it matter where someone’s money comes from? Since when do fans or customers of something have a right to know the insides of every pigs arse?

Are you one of the people clambering for a billionaire? And would you be as forensic in analysing the sources of any billionaire’s wealth as you clearly are with Kenwright and anyone associated with him.

Can I suggest sticking to the point & avoiding nonsense. And for the record, I too am bored shitless with people like Christine using every piece of news about the club as an opportunity to beat up Kenwright.

There is a small part of me that almost (just almost) wishes some unknown faceless "billionaire" would come along and snap up EFC amidst great hullabaloo. Only to then find out it’s Mike Fuckwit Ashley, or a Thai arms dealer, or a fake sheikh. It’s sad that there are so many naive people out there that actually believe Kenwright is the worst thing that ever happened to EFC and that it can’t get any worse.

Want a bet?
Gavin Ramejkis
35   Posted 28/11/2009 at 17:22:12

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Might I add to what Jay has already retorted Richard, do you forget where Kenwright got his money from to buy Everton? Does Anita Gregg ring any bells? Without the Gregg's your favourite charlatan wouldn’t have gotten his lying grubby mits on the club.

Then, with theatrical aplomb which only your ilk actually fall for, he contrived the utter fantasism, which even you would have been proud of, "the FSF cheque is in the post"... closely aligned with a Trinity News paper defamation of Mr Gregg as a non-football loving character who never comes to the game and would be detrimental to keep.

Funny Kenwright never mentions the fact he had already exited stage left at Goodison to catch a train the day Rooney scored "that goal"... or his lies to supporters who are still watching fresh air space... or his disgraceful responses at the ESCLA meeting: "Don’t ask me — I’m just the chairman", equally as derisory as "I’m not going to answer that question" at the Shareholders Forum, or his silence during the whole Desperation Kirkby farce.

But hey, it’s ok while the club has subservient quislings willing to revert to the three wise monkeys on all matters Kenwright and forgive his mismanagement and catalogue of monumental fuckups. Stick to your shrine, Richard it’s got even less followers now.

Desperation Kirkby — mission aborted. Taxi?

John Sreet
36   Posted 28/11/2009 at 17:34:10

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I understand your scorn Christine, but while we may own the intellectual property that is Everton, he and his mates own the shares. Yes, we are investors to a degree... in that our match fees form part of the income, but the revenue stream that clubs can generate outside of their fan base dwarfs what used to be their bread and butter... Apart from his ego, I don’t think he gives a toss.
David O'Keefe
37   Posted 28/11/2009 at 17:59:11

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Good to know that you have the club's best interests at heart, Alan.

Even Neil, Dan and many other pro-Kirkbyites haven’t plumbed the depths that you have just done; wishing the club to decline under a new owner to prove a point. It would have been better for you never to have submitted such an appalling comment.
Neil Pearse
38   Posted 28/11/2009 at 19:15:34

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The Kenwright debate now is utterly tedious and futile.

The man himself says that he needs to step aside because he does not have the financial strength for a modern football club. We all agree, perhaps even Doddy.

Given who we have seen taking over other Premier League clubs, anyone who thinks we should simply accept the first person who comes along waving a bit of a dosh is an irresponsible lunatic. We all surely agree that Kenwright should exercise extreme care in selling the club and, if that means he is in charge a little longer, so be it.

So: he should step aside when we get a new owner to whom we can safely entrust our club. What is there to argue about?

Maybe when Kenwright finally leaves we can indulge ourselves in the rather academic debate as to what extent he was saint, and to what extent sinner. But even then I expect that it will be fairly obvious to all but the extremists that he was quite a bit of both.
Dennis Stevens
39   Posted 28/11/2009 at 19:35:08

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Any change in control of the club would be risky, but that doesn’t mean the current Board should be blindly supported for fear of any change. On that basis the thinking seems to be that it doesn’t matter how much they screw-up because some people are afraid any alternative may be worse.

Hypothetically that’s true but the opposite is also true, the alternative may actually be better. Indeed, the current Board are performing so poorly that it’s hardly going to be an impossible task for their successor(s) to impress.

All change carries risks, but without change the potential for progress is severely restricted. Wasn’t this one of the reasons some chose to support DK — because they felt the club had to risk making that change?

David Hallwood
40   Posted 28/11/2009 at 19:48:28

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Talk about being wise after the fact! So DK couldn’t be delivered... if that was so, a lot of people have spent of lot of their energy posting on here about how crap DK was and that they would never go and watch the Everton again (fair weather supporters so fuck ’em), you should have said nothing and let the inevitable happen.

What happened with DK was that it fell foul of planning regulations or rather planning philosophies. Where do we go from here? Who knows... but one thing is clear, getting a ground within the city will take years. If you think DK was complex, wait till you see the objections to just about any site that’s close to a residential area.

And finally I’ve posted this many times on TW, I think BK should step aside, as he isn’t rich enough for the modern game, but all the posters who are saying BK must go, could you give me the names of people who have stated an interest in buy or investing in the club?

Still, look on the bright side — it's nearly Christmas and as most of you appear to still believe in him, maybe we’ll get a billionaire for Christmas.

Phil Bellis
41   Posted 28/11/2009 at 20:52:54

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I’ve got more faith in Father Christmas than I have in Bill Kenwright
At least, the bearded one hasn’t disappointed me as often over the years
Dennis Stevens
42   Posted 28/11/2009 at 21:20:10

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"Wise after the fact", David? As I recall, our good friends at KEIOC pointed out very early on that the DK proposal fell foul of the relevant regional plans & that on that basis they predicted it would be called in for a public inquiry & then turned down.

However, most of the debate, somewhat understandably, tended to focus on what a poor idea the whole scheme was for EFC. It’s just a shame the club didn’t put aside some of the money they wasted on the project to pay for some expert planning advice at the outset as it might have saved a lot of time & money.

Christine Foster
43   Posted 28/11/2009 at 21:54:19

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Richard Dodd, stop trying to be patronising, sarcasm is fine.

Alan Kirwin, "I am bored shitless with people like Christine using every bit of news about the club to beat up Kenwright." I feel the same way about everything you write too...

I am sure there are many other apologists who believe like you that BK is one of us, that he is doing his best for us and that his heart is in the right place. That he took the best advice from a couple of the best businessmen around and still failed to deliver. How unlucky is that? I am sure too that many have trust and faith in the guy to deliver eventually. I don’t.

Everton FC need a fresh start with a new leader at the helm.
Everton FC need to heal the rift they caused with the fans.

The current relationship between an Everton Fan and the club is akin to an abusive marriage. One party still loves the other and the other doesn’t care that the relationship has broken down.

How do you fix it? You talk and get the relationship back or walk away.

Who is the taxi for?

Christine Foster
44   Posted 28/11/2009 at 22:11:03

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We need a Golden Vision in the Boardroom.
Jamie Rowland
45   Posted 28/11/2009 at 22:59:01

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Christine, I’m not a big fan of the ’Kenwright out’ brigade but I have to agree with your sentiments. He handled the Kirkby stadium debacle with the kind of openess and PR that we are only to expect from politicians when discussing expenses!

It's been a joke and so have Everton FC. The whole ordeal (and that is exactly what it was) was horrendous.

It's over now and we can move on. My only concern/differing opinion with your article is that Kenwright can find investment if it's there to be found but we can’t force him out. He owns part of the club and without providing him adequate compensation, we (as fans) can't change a thing!
Anthony Bailey
46   Posted 29/11/2009 at 00:32:30

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I think Neil is right when he says that most Evertonians would agree that we need someone new in charge of the club; as he says, I am prepared to wait for the right owner to come along. However, that doesn't mean BK can sit on his arse and do nothing.

He and the Board should be looking at ways the club can improve continuously until Everton is sold. I'm not saying he isn't doing, but the fact that we haven't really progressed off the pitch too far in the last 5 years is kind of testament to that fact.

On a different note, I do have one question with regards to the ’poverty’/’we cant afford a ground anywhere else’ opinion. IF the council gave us free land... and IF we can actually get our hands on the supposed £78M for DK... then why must we need another enabling partner for a new stadium?

From what I have read, Tesco were giving us sweet FA financially and therefore the cost of the stadium itself was £78M plus the land. Surely this means (providing we could still raise the £78M for the new stadium) we could build a similar design (hopefully better) on any site that was deemed good enough (transport/size etc) for the same price if LCC or whoever gave us the land?

For example if we go the Loop site free (providing it's big enough) then could we not build a stadium of £78M’s worth on the plot?

Gavin Ramejkis
47   Posted 29/11/2009 at 03:28:05

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Neil Pearse, I understand the whole concet of due dilligence but how the hell would a seller perform it on a buyer and what criteria would they use? With very few exceptions, EPL buyers transfer the debt of purchasing the club against the club as financial leverage so not sure how the hell you would ever say one individual or consortium is better than another.
Brian Waring
48   Posted 29/11/2009 at 09:07:33

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The reason why we can have a go at BK, after every bit of news, is because it is normally about him fucking up, and he sits at the head of the table, so the buck stops with him.
Richard Dodd
49   Posted 29/11/2009 at 09:08:12

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I know it’s trite and stating the bleeding obvious but how about if we all agree ’the future starts here’! DK is dead in the water, King’s Dock and the FSF are consigned to history and, love him or hate him, it looks like we’re ’stuck’ with Blue Bill for the foreseeable future.

So what if WE ALL hold our water and see how he re-acts in the present ’crisis’? Let’s see what plans emerge to take the club foreward both on and off the field. What positive moves he and the CEO make towards bringing in investment and securing a new ground or re-vitalising Goodison Park.

If we hear nothing on these issues by Christmas, even I will begin to believe Bill and his Board are clueless. But I just think we might all be pleasantly surprised as to what pops out of Santa BB’s bag!

Neil Pearse
50   Posted 29/11/2009 at 09:24:18

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Gavin, selling to anyone will always be risky. You never know what they will do once they are in charge (look across the park).

All you can do is try to sell only to a party who is reasonably well-known and reputable, and who is known to have a reasonably secure financial situation. Just using those simple criteria would have ruled out many recent Premier League owners.
Neil Pearse
51   Posted 29/11/2009 at 09:36:36

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Given the need for a new ground, probably the most likely new owner for us is someone who has some interest in building some retail / leisure complex in the Merseyside area (note: I did not say ’Liverpool’), in which having a football ground might be an advantage. That would make acquiring our club more attractive to them.
Dave Wilson
52   Posted 29/11/2009 at 10:15:35

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It simply MUST be inside Liverpool. Yes I know its restricts options, I also understand you cant please everyone, but the merest hint of a stadium outside of the City will have us split down the middle all over again.

Let's put the idea to bed, for good.
Lee Smith
53   Posted 29/11/2009 at 10:43:34

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Christ on a bike! Editors, can you please ensure that Doddy’s last post is securely saved somewhere in the ToffeeWeb Vaults so we can all review it early January time. Thanks.
Gavin Ramejkis
54   Posted 29/11/2009 at 11:39:57

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Neil I understand part of your response but equally who foresaw the global credit crunch? Even Abramovich took a dive on that as did Warren Buffet who took a reported $25Bn loss in 2008/2009. I’d argue for each Waldorf and Stadtler across the park there is a Glazer family, it appears that a partnership takeover offers more risk looking at the former.

Richard, I’ll hold you to your word. Please don’t forget investment and sale are two completely different words and if just investment on what terms that not one has appeared over the last few years?
Tim Lloyd
55   Posted 29/11/2009 at 18:22:42

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From what I can make out, virtually everybody who has contributed towards this thread, has done so without any personal knowledge.

This never-ending flow of invective that is thrown at Bill Kenwright sickens me. The man is an Evertonian who has acquired enough money from friends or relations to buy the club. There are many who would like to have been able to do likewise but didn’t have the moneyed friends or acquaintances to do so.

He is a theatre Impresario and from all accounts a good one but that does not qualify him as a good Soccer Club chairman. He has done what he believes was in the best interests of the club and if, he has erred, it was surely from the best intentions, not as so many have inferred to line his pockets in some way.

So DK is now yesterday's news. Let us, as BK has suggested, move on. Just where we can go from here, I certainly don’t know. Nobody writing on this site has made any suggestions whilst contributing to this thread.

But move on, I feel, is what we have to do and continually carping and using insulting language about BK does not seem to me to be particularly constructive.

The trouble seems to me that most contributors, either pro- or anti-BK, have no constructive comments to make. Why do so many think BK is a charlatan? Give us YOUR ideas.

Whether some investor or billionaire will turn up now is unknown by any of us. Maybe there are leads which the Board can follow up. In the interim let's have no more of the scurrilous postings that I have read on this thread today. Its insulting to some great Evertonians who have gone before us.
David O'Keefe
56   Posted 29/11/2009 at 19:09:42

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I don’t have personal knowledge of BK, but he is a public figure and a prominent figure at that. I judge Mr Kenwright on his words and more importantly, his actions.

According to you, I have to had spent some time in his company before forming an opinion on him... Utter rot.
Ciarán McGlone
57   Posted 29/11/2009 at 19:14:16

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The ’it could turn out worse’....argument - really is a bit of a daft premise for not wanting to change a shite set-up.

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