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Stand Up and Sit Down

By Chris Butler :  01/12/2009 :  Comments (46) :
In the last 3 seasons more and more fans around the country have started to stand home and away. Over the last 2 seasons Everton fans have caught on to this and there is increasing friction between the two factions.

On Sunday for example around 400 fans at the back of Lower Gwladys stood including me throughout the match. In the 2nd half, fans in the Park End, the Paddock, and the front of Lower Gwladys also stood for large parts on the game, including 2,900 Liverpool fans that also stood. Because of this, we created a fantastic atmosphere that urged the boys on.

Liverpool until recently had a terrific home record in the Champions League. This also had something to do with 13,000 fans standing up pulling the ball into The Kop net and intimidating some of the best players in the world.

At away games where Everton fans have sat, it has been a poor atmosphere. I do not want to force anyone to stand who doesn’t want to. But I would like to stand and sing with like-minded people not affecting anybody who wants to sit. Of course this relies at away games on cooperation from the stewards and our fellow fans. This worked successfully at West Ham and nobody was affected.

There are nine areas of Goodison Park, of which two — the Park End and Paddock — have occasional standing. Only two out of the 8 blocks and about 12 rows have persistent standing. I do not agree with standing areas such as Spurs' and Man City's near opposing supporters as these increase the likelihood of trouble.

The main reasons supporters stand are it's virtually impossible to make a decent atmosphere with people seated. Standing is safer than people persistently standing up and them sitting down. The problem is that the atmosphere standing up supporting their team is what younger fans like to do.

I think it’s unfair to never give them a chance to stand like people did in the 80s. One of the major ringleaders for people to stand up is someone on crutches of some kind. In a ground of 40,000 let the 500 or so who want to stand have their enjoyment and you have yours sitting down.

Reader Comments

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Gerry Morrison
1   Posted 01/12/2009 at 21:54:38

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You do not want to force anybody to stand who does not want to. Really? What am I supposed to do after I take my seat and some fool decides to stand up right in front of me?
You say that standing throughout the game on Sunday produced a great atmosphere. Alas, it didn’t prevent us getting beat 2-0.
Chris Butler
2   Posted 01/12/2009 at 22:34:36

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Well first of all Gerry. At GP you have numerous other places to chose to sit. At away fixtures, supporters can assign blocks or rows for standing informing those who want to sit. Those needs to be thought out Gerry. It will continue to affect both factions througout the season.
Kevy Quinn
3   Posted 01/12/2009 at 22:42:41

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I agree id rather stand for the 90 mins. Especially at away games it feels natural. Same if I go to a concert I prefer going to the standing area. The atmosphere is better if everyone is standing singing etc.
Nick Entwistle
4   Posted 01/12/2009 at 23:31:24

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Just say what you want to Chris. You want terraces back. Me too. Nanny state oppression it be to sit down or risk the wrath of a bright yellow fat bloke.
Would mean lower prices and more fans too.
Andy Crooks
5   Posted 02/12/2009 at 00:02:28

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Nick, it’s nothing to do with a nanny state. I remember as a kid being crushed and terrified standing on a terrace. Football has, thank God, moved on. Do you really want to move back to the tribal days of the seventies with disasters waiting to happen?
Dick Fearon
6   Posted 02/12/2009 at 03:27:06

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The solution is blindingly simple.
Those who prefer to stand should go to the back tiers.
Dave Wilson
7   Posted 02/12/2009 at 05:21:43

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Anyone who regularly travels to games will tell you this is sometimes a more divisive issue than Kirkby.
My observations are this ; The young lads and girls tend to be the ones who are more excited and generally the people who want to be more vocal, they want to get behind their team, they want to engage the opposition fans in singing contest.
The more mature fan tends to forget this, he’s seen it all before, he just wants to watch the game in comfort, some of them are just not able to stand for 90 minutes and you will often hear them shouting at the youngsters to sit down.

There needs to be a degree of tolerance here, the kids in front of me were actually forced to sit down at West ham and missed most of the second half including Goslings goal, the sitelines at some of the older grounds means the little fella loses out - you can barely see the far corner flag even if you stand at the Boleyn.

I was amazed by how little was made of the near riot at OT just recently, I saw dozens of Evertonians, Police and Stewart’s all trading blows, women and kids being knocked to the floor in the malaise.
This all started because a couple of Stewart’s were over zealous in their attempts to "force" the lads to sit down, it didn’t help that half of United fans were standing at the time

This is a serious issue, the sitters and the standers are becoming more and more hostile towards each other.
Dick has part of the solution, but I think most clubs just want your money and would never make the effort of sellin standing tickets at the back and sitting tickets at the front, Its not soley a young/old thing, a lot of it depends upon the game, the mood of the fans and last weeks sitter may well be this weeks stander.

Tolerance guys, try to enjoy the match they way you want, but try not to do it at a fellow fans expense
David Grace
8   Posted 02/12/2009 at 08:25:29

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Gerry, we are not fools for deciding to stand in front of you, we just want to get right behind the team, and although we did lose 2-0 it was without doubt the best performance and atmosphere in a poor season on both fronts.

However, I do agree there are those who choose to sit and those who like to stand, and us standing should respect those who choose to sit, as we all pay good money to follow the blues and as blues should respect each other's wishes.

But standing brings a much better atmosphere, and GP has been so quiet and poor this year, I have moved from my seat right near the away fans in the Park End because it can be embarrasing at times.

It will be an issue I'm sure will rumble on, but a bit of give and take is required from both factions I think, and hopefully the results on the pitch get a bit better and get us all off our seats.
Nick Entwistle
9   Posted 02/12/2009 at 09:47:58

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Come on Andy, terrace technology has come on leaps and bounds since the 70s.
Portsmouth used it when first coming up into the Prem, Championship teams until recently had terracing, and then there’s Dortmund’s stadium.
Chris Briddon
10   Posted 02/12/2009 at 10:01:39

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Nick - nice theory, but it has nothing to do with terrace technology. I never used to feel safe when standing in crowds at football matches, due to it being difficult to control a few thousand people at once.

Also, you have issues to do with overcrowding in specfic locations and the potential to identify individuals who cause trouble by their seat location, which is another reason why all-seater stadia where introduced.

To me, standing in top-flight football should never return, and I think it now is suggested by the same mentality that thinks football in the 60s and 70s was better. People only remember the good bits and forget all the bad bits about it.
Larry Boner
11   Posted 02/12/2009 at 10:18:44

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Mr Butler, the reason we have all-seater stadiums in the PL is because 96 people were crushed to death at Hillsborough, if you doubt this go and look at the memorial and read the names.

It is ILLEGAL to stand in an all-seated area and extremely dangerous, if you want an in-depth expanation of the dangers go to the Football Licensing Authority website and read the sections on Standing in Seated areas, it may educate you, then reply to me why you think it is still a good idea.

I think it was Phil Hammond at the 20-year Hillsborough memorial service who pleaded with spectators at Anfield to sit down during games, to no avail I might add. Liverpool supporters on Sunday were actually standing in the Upper Bullens.
It is because of people like you that innocent people get hurt. Go to the game and sit down, then everyone can see and be safe at the same time.

Patty Beesley
12   Posted 02/12/2009 at 10:35:13

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Try sitting on your Dad’s shoulders and hanging on for dear life whilst the crowd (bigger capacity than today’s games) swayed back and forth in the 1940s and 50s like I did. Now that was precarious!!!
Dick Fearon
13   Posted 02/12/2009 at 10:58:50

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Patty B, I well remember similar frightening experiences on the terraces.The most scary and unforgettable happened at Elland Rd.

I was a physically strong well built adult and a crush swept me down the terracing a full 30 yards unable to touch ground with my feet. I escaped without injury but half dozen other Evertonians were stretcher cases while another dozen or so needed First Aid.

I recall many other incidents that could have resulted in serious harm. It took the tragedies of Heysel and Hillsborough to recognise the real and present danger of uncontrolled mobile masses.It is mind boggling that of all people, a sizeable number of RS supporters are supporting a return of the terracing.

As mentioned above, there also was a growing trend of violent confrontation between opposing fans. This had reached the state where women and children stopped going to the games in droves.
Unlike today, that was when knife violence was unheard of. It does not bear thinking about the injuries a few armed thugs could wreak in a seething swaying crowd.

Nick Entwistle
14   Posted 02/12/2009 at 12:23:48

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Theory, Chris? It's been put into practice. One end of Croke Park to until this year was terrace, rugby have terraces. Also people are free to stand at sold-out concerts in all-seater stadia. It's not terracing that was the problem, it was the use of it. If you’re to buy tickets for terracing you could say not buy on day of match at the box office so numbers are controlled.

I don’t know how people still refuse the terraces on the argument that they’re unsafe when Germany have a rule where 10% of all capacity in stadia must be standing. And their accident rate is non-existent. That isn’t theory Larry, that’s practice.

Mike Gwyer
15   Posted 02/12/2009 at 12:27:09

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Your last comment “knife crime was unheard of”. I hate to remind folks of the 70s and 80s but knife crime with blades, razors or Stanlies was rife and unfortunately it was extremely rife with various EFC gangs.

Basically, standing at games was good at generating a tribal atmosphere but unfortunately it was not for the weak and on the whole it became a host to the hooligan elements. Believe me; in the 70s & 80s, GP was high on list regarding footy trouble.

Once you initiate areas to stand, the more vocal will go there and without a doubt the atmosphere generated by these fans does affect players. Additionally, at away games you are always going to have trouble at various stadiums, whether you are seated or as at OT where you attempt to stand. OT probably topping this list, basically because most of those stewards are stupid fucking Mancs who hate scousers.
Chris Butler
16   Posted 02/12/2009 at 13:49:34

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First of all, Cardiff City (until last year) had terraces with no disaster. Hillsbrough was an accident caused by poor policing. In Germany they have special cheaper seats that can be pushed back when you want to stand and just used to sit without pushing it back. This is only in 1 area of the ground and the away end. They ask the customer whether he’d like to sit of stand and organise the standing rows or blocks on the numbers wanting to stand.
Derek Turnbull
17   Posted 02/12/2009 at 14:17:04

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Good article, a couple of months ago I wrote a similar article with regards to a petition set up to allow for a singing section at the back of the Gwladys Street.

The current system is not working and is causing ructions between the factions. Common sense needs to allow for a small group of fans to stand at the back of each stand out of the way of those who wish to sit.

Unfortunately a number of comments above disappointed me. By standing, we mean standing up in front of your allocated seats. We are not talking about terraces. As for the person who mentioned Hillsbrough in the argument, I am lost for words as to how someone can actually think that Hillsbrough occurred due to fans standing up. That is an absolute insult.
Sam Higgins
18   Posted 02/12/2009 at 14:01:14

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I am 100% behind Nick Entwistle on this issue. It really grates on me when people assume that standing on the terraces was the reason for Hysel and Hillsborough (Note the spelling, Mr Fearon). No, no it was not. A complete lack of pre-planning by numerous authorities before the 2 games were played was the reason people died, not because the tragedies occurred on terraces (and standing was dangerous).

The evidence for this in the case of Hillsborough is so obvious its ridiculous. The same match, the same teams, the same stadium, the same ticket allocation, 1 year previous to 1989. The 1988 Semi-Final at Hillsborough was very well planned and executed by an experienced matchday police commander. Hence everything went as it should.

But numerous errors were made before the 15/4/89 match. The FA should've looked at allocating Liverpool the Spion Kop. SWFC should've looked at their stadium safety certificates, and SY Cops should've kept their experienced matchday commander in charge for the game – not fucking him off somewhere with a few months to go and replacing him with a guy who couldn’t organise traffic – let alone a semi-final matchday crowd.

These factors contributed to the deaths at Sheffield; had these factors been addressed correctly then the people that went to watch that game on the Leppings Lane terrace would've been safe to do so.

Heysel – well this had little or nothing to do with standing and everything to do with a complete bunch of muppets (Uefa) deciding that a stadium akin to the Rome coliseum would do just nicely for a European Cup Final. Total and utter madness.

Of course we all know Liverpool got slaughtered for their actions in this tragedy – but to be honest they really were just scapegoats for the large and powerful organisation. If the game had been planned properly, Heysel wouldn’t even been in contention for hosting the event. But even then Heysel could've been planned properly. Section Z where the supporters who were crushed should've never even existed.

They should've been somewhere else completely. They could've planned for more than a squad of keystone cops to be in the stadium. It had nothing to do with standing and everything to do with the powers that be failing miserably and BLAMING hooliganism to whitewash their failings. The whitewash was then rubber stamped with the 5-year ban of English clubs. Complete nonsense.

Anyway thats my view. I'd love to see standing back – and yes it could be controlled.

Derek Turnbull
19   Posted 02/12/2009 at 14:24:30

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Further point. Standing up is not illegal. It is a standard human action that most able bodied people do each day like scratching your head for instance.

It is terracing that is illegal. The Football League Authority do not believe it is unsafe to stand up in front of your seat except in upper tiers or in steep stands.
Chris Butler
20   Posted 02/12/2009 at 13:54:10

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Clubs pull the wool over people's eyes, Nick. For example at Spurs. I'd guess for the 1st 40 minutes about 1,000 stood in the away end. Plus about 2,000 in the Spurs end. I was 2 seats away from the stewards policing the divide between the Spurs and Everton fans. We created a terrific atmosphere in the 1st half. But then the steward oblivious to the Spurs fans standing centimetres away asked us to sit down.

Then a comment was made that whoever in our end who wanted to sit could sit in the front two rows suprisingly enough nobody was complaning. The stewards weren’t overzealous by any means but there was no need to force us to sit. The people standing weren’t thugs there was a wide range of people enjoying the match.

To Larry, it's not illegal to stand up mate. I’ve researched this, the grounds have to be all-seater. In the Taylor report it as pointed out that there was fundamentally nothing wrong with standing up at Football matches if the terraces were safe. With CCTV, the grounds are incresingly safe. About 31 000 in the Premier League stood Larry at the weekend with no punishments.

Derek Turnbull
21   Posted 02/12/2009 at 15:03:48

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Chris, the first thing we as Evertonians need to consider is fans who wish to stand being able to congregate at the back of a stand. At home then we need an area to do this taking into account season ticket holders may be unwilling to give up their seat.

Therefore we may only be able to have an area for 100-150 maximum in an area with obstructed views. I’m for that and I know some other fans are for that too.
Larry Boner
22   Posted 02/12/2009 at 16:14:26

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Go on to FLA website and look at requirements for seated areas, anyone persistently standing in a seated area must be ejected from the ground. Uefa and Fifa require all stadiums to be seated for any of their games, which is why German stadiums have convertible seating areas.

Also, I never said Heysel or Hillsborough were caused by terracing, Hillsborough was caused by the fencing-in of supporters and a police force that had no idea what to do.

I was at the other semi, Villa Park and, but for someone pulling a ball out of a hat, my brother and me would have been in Leppings Lane, but if it have been an al- seater stadium it would not have happened, fencing or not.

Again go on to the website and check for yourself. I have no issue with people standing in a standing area, we don't have that currently in the top two divisions.

Derek Turnbull
23   Posted 02/12/2009 at 17:01:19

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Larry, the argument is for standing in a seated area. I think many people see the word standing and jump to conclusions.

The FLA’s ground reg is a nonsense, they have admitted that there are no safety concerns with standing in a seated area in lower tiers. Also, how do they define persistant? If I stand up for 89 minutes then sit down for the final minute is that persistant? Surely they can’t do that until the final whistle? What if fans say every 10 minutes for 5 seconds to break it up? Also Everton allow away fans to constantly stand up in the lower so why not home fans?

For me the issue for safe standing is about customer service and choice. Fans standing up in front of people who don’t want to.

standing happens, and will continue to do so until the authorities gain some common sense and have a standing (in front of seat) area
Dennis Stevens
24   Posted 02/12/2009 at 18:09:57

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I doubt many people would advocate a return to the great open terracing of yesteryear but it is ridiculous that those who wish to stand are not allowed to do so in a designated area.
Chris Butler
25   Posted 02/12/2009 at 18:16:09

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First of all this, Stand up, Sit down programme started in 2005 to try to bring standing back to football grounds in Britain. The programme virtually gave up in 2008 as they didn’t feel the authorities were ever going to change it.

After this, fans increasingly stood both home and away. Manchester United has fans standing every game in the Upper Stretford End, about 3,000. West Ham has about 7,000 standing around the ground but mainly in the Bobby Moore Lower stand. Manchester City has allowed the South Stand Lower either side of the away supporters to stand for the whole match.

This type of standing condoned by the club has caused a few nasty incidents including the fixture at Eastland’s last season. Wolves have about 4,000 standing in the famous South Bank. Sunderland have a section of 200 to 800 fans standing in the south west corner near the away supporters... again, I’m against this type of standing area.

Wigan has a small section to the left on the away fans that persistently stand near the back of the stand. Spurs have around 2,500 that stand in the East Stand Lower and the South Stand Lower for big games this can increase to 5,000. Aston Villa have around 1,500 standing at their games in the Upper Holte End of the North Stand lower. These areas of standing are for every league fixture through all parts of the year.

Clubs such as Arsenal, Liverpool have standing at certain games similar to Everton when we play Liverpool or a massive game. When I say standing I mean all through the match, not just when there is an attack. Why do people not object to occasional standing which is more dangerous and pointless?

None of these clubs have been punished bar Manchester United and Aston Villa. Both of those clubs have made efforts to stop it. At a big fixture there can be an excess of almost 15,000 supporters standing all match such as Liverpool and Manchester United.

Standing should be outlawed in certain parts of grounds such as near opposing supporters. For safety reasons, standing should not occur on upper tiers. Standing should not occur in areas such as Lower Bullens with extremely restricted views.

Andy Crooks
26   Posted 02/12/2009 at 19:05:28

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Larry, spot on. I honestly just can’t see why people cannot sit and enjoy a match while supporting their team. Must real men stand? I just can’t believe that this is an issue. There is another disaster waiting to happen.
Chris Butler
27   Posted 02/12/2009 at 19:36:39

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It is a problem Andy loads of other fans do it. Standing up is for the more vocal supporter who would liek to stand up. You can sit down and we can stand up in a perfect fair world.
Dennis Stevens
28   Posted 02/12/2009 at 21:47:37

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To blame diasters like Heysel & Hillsborough on the fact that people were able to stand is as empty headed as it would be to blame the Bradford disaster upon the fact that people had seats.
Dick Fearon
29   Posted 03/12/2009 at 02:14:02

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Close relatives of mine were present and witnessed the dreadful scenes that played out at Hillsborough and Heysel. They also helped in rescuing some that were caught up in the suffocating crush of bodies.
In their words and other witness accounts, it is an indisputable fact that the free movement of packed crowds on the terracing played a major role in the 39 deaths at Heysel and the 96 at Hillsborough.
Regardless of who or what was responsible there is not a shred of doubt that had everyone been seated and remained so, those fatalities plus the thousand or more connected injuries would not have happened.

It is dangerous to suggest and particularly so for Liverpool fans to suggest that if terracing was to return the same similar tragic would or could not occur.
There are evil types out there who care little for the niceties of life as shown at the Athens final ss recently as 2007.
There was crowd trouble outside the ground at the Liverpool end. Two middle aged friends, man and wife, both ardent Pool fans wearing their colours were badly bruised after desperately fighting off fellow Liverpool fans who were trying to steal their tickets. They were so disgusted they no longer travel away.

At the same game, police fed up with loutish behaviour and also because so many without tickets had scaled the fence
locked out many including two of my relatives who had genuine tickets.
Finally, apologys in advance to Sam Higgins for any misspelt words.

Derek Turnbull
30   Posted 03/12/2009 at 10:21:47

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There is a massive difference between standing up in front of your seats and terraces. So why are people confusing the two issues? Do they see the word ’stand’ and jump to massive conclusions?
Derek Turnbull
31   Posted 03/12/2009 at 10:23:22

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Andy Crooks - the phrase ’real men’ is an article, come on you can do better than that. Why is there a disaster waiting to happen? We are talking about fans standing in front of their allocated seat during passive moments of play. You will notice that in moments of excitement, at half time, before a match, full time there is standing and the movement of people.

There is actually a far bigger risk of a crush in the toilets at half time. How about at Kirkdale station when you have a live line and fans are packed in there? Are you suggesting that because the is a pitch with highly paid footballers there it is more dangerous?

Jon Gorman
32   Posted 03/12/2009 at 13:24:23

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You just need to use your common sense. Sometimes the pace of the game and whats at stake causes the vast majority of fans to remain standing throughout.

Most of the time the play is largely passive and there is no justifiable reason that you should reamin standing.

I am a firm beleiver that on the field action should dictate the atmosphere and this is certainly the case at GP.

Kopites always bang on about singing when theyve lost. I typically boo if weve been shite to be honest. You cant manufacture a great atmosphere, but the players can inspire one.
Chris Butler
33   Posted 03/12/2009 at 14:05:15

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Dick, really the things you have mentioned have nothing to do with people who want to stand in front of their seat. It's unlikely that anyone will bunk in and cause overcrowding. Heysel and Hillsborough were made worse by standing but it was not the sole cause. I cannot agree with Phil Hammond and neither do many kopites.

Hillsborough has been used to blame fans Dick and Larry so they could start charging ridiculous fees for match tickets. There is no proof that standing in front of your seat is dangerous except on a upper tier. Were there any deaths caused by people standing on Sunday?

There is just no truth in the hideous lie that standing is unsafe. As Derek said, if you go to a packed tube station, it's dangerous. When you have to stand and make your way out of the ground, it's dangerous. So really the arguement that standing is unsafe is void.

Dick Fearon
34   Posted 03/12/2009 at 14:15:03

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I beg to differ that standing is harmless.
Had several of us not physically restrained a mate there was a strong possibility that one ’Stander’ would have been a hospital case.

Had that standers mates jumped in the whole thing could have exploded into something very much more serious.
Dick Fearon
35   Posted 03/12/2009 at 14:21:56

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I beg to differ that standing is harmless.
Had several of us not physically restrained a mate there was a strong possibility that one ’Stander’ would have been a hospital case.

Had that standers mates jumped in the whole thing could have exploded into something very much more serious.
Derek Turnbull
36   Posted 03/12/2009 at 14:29:52

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Jon Gorman-

On field action should dictate the atmosphere? Surely one of the reasons for an atmosphere is our way of providing support to the team? Therefore if the team are doing well then this is the time they do not need our support, and when they are struggling it is then that they do need our support?

You say you can’t manufacture an atmosphere, I would argue and say that you can stifle one, and that you can add factors in a stadium to enhance one.

Think about it, if fans who wish to sing are spread out then you are not going to get many songs are you? If like minded fans are congregated then you have more chance. Add to that those like minded fans all being stood then it is psychologically far easier for them to start off songs and to join in with them. Add to that those fans being under a roof then the rest of the crows will hear them and so will be far more likely to be enticed into joining in with them.
Derek Turnbull
37   Posted 03/12/2009 at 14:32:09

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Dick Fearon- can you relate that argument to a specific instance please?
Chris Butler
38   Posted 03/12/2009 at 15:32:13

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To people such as Dick, you do not have to stand. I have made that perfectly clear. People have said, "Create your own atmosphere". As I’ve pointed out, it’s unfair on the younger supporter. He’s been looking forward to going to an away match and when he gets there he gets 50-year-olds telling him to sit down.

Everton’s away support has never really been a laddish away support such as Manchester United, Spurs or West Ham. Many younger fans that sing in the concourse do this as it’s the only time they can stand up and sing with like-minded people. It is going to end up with some serious altercations.

Often I’ve found the most volatile characters are the ones who sit down and don’t sing. People who stand want to enjoy their day. Most stewards are not bothered about standing and don’t do anything about it.

Young lads are increasingly demonised by society. Eventually it will end up with our vocal support dieing. The two factions are starting to despise each other. I’ve known groups of fans to walk out in protest because they cannot stand. In smaller away supports, this isn’t a problem. Everton refuse to engage with us so it ends up with people who don’t want to stand having to stand.

Supporters Dick in Lower Gwladys do congregate near the back of the stand under the roof. At away games it's harder Dick to organise this. It requires other fans to be cooperative and the stewards. The authorities have failed to recognise that an increasing number of fans are becoming disillusioned with being forced to sit.

Larry Boner
39   Posted 03/12/2009 at 16:47:37

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Pathetic really, those who dismiss history are condemed to repeat it, my God do people never learn?
Derek Turnbull
40   Posted 03/12/2009 at 17:03:46

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The history of standing in front of a seat? At Everton since 1991. Or are you another to confuse standing in front of your seat with terraces? Do you jump to conclusions as soon as you see the word standing do you?
Andy Crooks
41   Posted 03/12/2009 at 18:43:58

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Derek and Chris, there is a history of tribalism in British football that seated stadiums have helped to counter. Say we have a standing area at the top of a stand. Firstly, would you like to be sitting below it with your family? Secondly, do you not see that it could become an area for trouble makers to congregate?

Please don’t take this as a criticism of genuine fans like yourselves who will stand and passionately support the team. There are others who will abuse such an area.

Derek Turnbull
42   Posted 03/12/2009 at 20:55:13

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Andy, the area would be to the rear of stand nowhere near the away fans and not by the pitch. It is at home so the club will know the identity of every single fan.

A trouble maker is a trouble maker whether he is stood or sat. They will still go the match whether this happens or not, in fact some troublemakers go the match now and it is not in place.

Most of the trouble I have heard about recently has come from fans who sit attacking fans for standing, and that’s from standing during moments of excitement.

So this will actually decrease trouble, as it gives fans choice.

Most significantly though troublemakers nowadays will cause it outside a stadium.
Dick Fearon
43   Posted 03/12/2009 at 21:35:41

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No agreement seems possible on this subject I will move on and suggest the topic be closed.
Chris Butler
44   Posted 03/12/2009 at 21:54:48

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All the nastiness comes from the Park End not the Gwladys Street Singers. Very rarely bar Liverpool and Manchester United are any chants aimed at away supporters. I haven’t heard about fans being attacked but Dick we are trying to make a resolution before any other nasty incidents happen.

Moronic behaviour happens in all parts of the ground not just when people are standing. Bad behaviour usually occurs in the Park End or Upper Bullens, not Gwladys Street.

Derek Turnbull
45   Posted 03/12/2009 at 21:55:38

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Close the subject because we don’t agree with you? Your arguments have not even been connected to the subject matter. You have seen the word ’stand’ and you’ve started to talk about terracing? The original post had nothing to do with terracing. It’s like you’ve played a very poor word association game.

Standing up happens and will continue to happen, should that not be a reason to address the subject and look for solutions? Standing up is a normal human action, able bodied people do it everyday, it is not unsafe to stand up.
Karl Masters
46   Posted 03/12/2009 at 22:06:10

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At Upton Park the other week we were in the last block towards the corner.

As The match kicked off I thought I should sit down as I was on the end of the row. However, with a fat, luminous orange coated steward stood by the exit in the aisle I could not see half the pitch when I sat down.

So we stood up, as did everbody in that block. The Police muppet began to try and prove a point by trying to get an Evertonian thrown out. This was his sole aim from the first minute as I listened to him talking to the stewards, one of whom said, ’It’s Everton. They always stand up.’

They threw someone out, but everybody continued to stand primarily because otherwise you could not see the pitch properly. The West Ham fans in the corner started their banter and we sang back, the game was exciting, the atmosphere was brilliant, the police gave up and pissed off, the stewards likewise and it turned out to be a great afternoon and I never sat down once. Most enjoyable game for ages.

And I never once felt unsafe or about to be crushed, so maybe Chris has a good point if it’s done properly.

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