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Merseyside Madness

By Chris Butler :  03/02/2010 :  Comments (55) :
Every time Everton and Liverpool meet, the media always bang on about how the Merseyside Derby is no longer friendly anymore. They constantly refer to chants about players on either side that have blighted the derby in recent years.

Journalists with Liverpool sympathies blame so-called sick blues who mock the Hillsborough disaster, chant "Murderers" and sing songs about their players. What I would like to know is why they never ask the supporters about the derby, preferring to interview players and ex-players?

Everybody knows that the derby has got a lot more tasty in recent years but to say that it's now one of the most hateful games in the football calendar is going a bit too far. I think it has far more to do with the two clubs than the supporters.

Liverpool’s demise from being one of the best clubs in the world to having players such as Phil Babb in their team embarrassed many Liverpool fans. Liverpool have only challenged once for the league title in about 20 years. For a club of their pedigree, this is very unusual and many Liverpool fans still haven’t got use to it. Everton’s demise was far more severe than theirs... we went from being title challengers to finishing in mid-table or worse.

Naturally, when neither team is challenging for trophies, winning the derby is of vital importance to both sets of supporters. Although Liverpool supporters claim they hate Manchester United, this isn’t reciprocated by Manchester United fans as Liverpool are no longer challenging them for major trophies.

Winning the derby also gave us Blues a chance to show the world that we were just as good as our famous neighbours. The Heysel disaster is one of the main reasons why the derby has became so intense. The bitterness that Evertonians feel about Heysel is still evident today.

To blame younger supporters is unfair as all they’ve ever known is hatred surrounding the derby. The reality is though fans still work together, play together and go out together. The majority of fans who chant abuse on both sides wouldn’t dream of assaulting a supporter of the other side.

I personally believe that both supporters understand that Liverpool are a massive club that have just had a succession or poor managers and that Everton are a big club that have struggled financially for the last 20 years. Most honest supporters will accept that both sides chant unacceptable songs for 90 minutes but don’t take it with them when they leave the ground.

Every Evertonian has at least 5 red mates that they have known for the most of their life and like them just as much as their blue mates. I find it hard to believe that you can hate the people who you’ve been brought up with. When reserved seating came into play, supporters did become more antagonistic to rival supporters in their end. There is often serious confrontation when away supporters sit in the home end which usually ends up in people getting thrown out.

But what many people seem to forget is nowadays derbies are far more intense around the country than ever before. When Cardiff plays Swansea you are guaranteed some sort of trouble. You only need to look at the events in the Manchester derby to realise it’s never been a volatile as it its now in years. No doubt Sol Campbell will get some merciless stick when he plays against Spurs. Newcastle and Sunderland supporters hate each other so much that they fight each other when the two teams aren’t even playing... and we all know what happened when West Ham met Millwall earlier this season.

Jamie Carragher devoted nearly a whole chapter in his autobiography to Everton supporters and how much he hates us. He blames Everton supporters solely for the destruction of the friendly derby. Why should Everton supporters respect a bunch of overpaid morons who show such little respect to us?

In my opinion, the clubs are to blame, not the supporters. They are only too happy to give the opposition fans abuse and are unhappy when they get it back.

Reader Comments

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Ste Traverse
1   Posted 04/02/2010 at 07:37:25

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Absolute bollocks is the above, I’ve said it before, there's no way this ’Chris Butler’ character is a Blue. When have Evertonians ever sang sick songs regarding Hillsboro??
Dave Lynch
2   Posted 04/02/2010 at 09:07:40

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I have never heard anyone sing songs about Hillsborough at a derby. The murderer chants come from Heysel, for which the arrogant bastards never accept responsibility.

Let’s get one thing straight: I abhor LFC, but would never ever attack a reds fan or anyone for that matter over a game of footy.

I have been spat at in Anfield by our loveable red friends before today. Our own skipper was belted by a knobhead from the terraces. What did LFC as a club do about that? Fuck all is the answer.

If they want respect, they can shove it, it aint coming from me and I don’t want nothing in return from them either. They think as a club they are beyond reproach and are constantly whinging about something or other, aka CL qualification.

I hope we rip them apart on Saturday and show them up for the mediocre shit that they are. But I will never fight anyone over it. Rant over.

Phil Bellis
3   Posted 04/02/2010 at 09:24:53

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Utter bollocks, written by a red wind-up merchant
"Every Evertonian has at least 5 red mates that they have known for the most of their life and like them just as much as their blue mates"
translation.. "Every Evertonian knows at least 10 know-nothing, arrogant 5-times tossers who ’support’ Liverpool but of these 10:

2 can’t even spell Anfield
9 don’t know who was the manager before Shankly
10 have never heard of John Houlding
Tony Williams
4   Posted 04/02/2010 at 09:28:52

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Ste, you nor I have not heard any songs regarding Hillsborough because there aren’t any. Well, certainly none that I have heard in the match since I have been going.

Usual nonesense from a bored journo trying to sensationalise a story that isn’t really there.

Yes we taunt each other at the match but then we meet up outside and go for a bevy so the ripping can start by the friend’s team who won.
Ciarán McGlone
5   Posted 04/02/2010 at 09:38:01

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The clubs are to blame?

How exactly do you get to this fatuous conclusion?

If someone picks up a brick outside the Royal Oak and throws it through a car window because it’s got a Liverpool sticker, then I’m afraid the moron who picked up the brick is to blame.
Dave Lynch
6   Posted 04/02/2010 at 09:53:42

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And another thing! The press, especially the Echo, are always going on about how special the Merseyside derby is. Two clubs within shouting distance, friendly banter and rivalry, fans going to the game together in the same car etc.......

But all where happy to see us move to the outskirts of the city and leave the gobshites as the only club within the city boundaries. I didn’t hear any of them shouting it was wrong and would ruin the "unique relationship fans have."No! They just shoved it in our face.

Quite funny though hearing the chant, "The city's all ours" in a Norwegian accent.

Danny Burke
7   Posted 04/02/2010 at 09:52:56

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I agree with the comments here. This article talks little sense, in fact, as a match going Evertonian I find it insulting that anyone should think a tragedy like Hillsborough would be the basis for any vile chant. Heysel is also a tragedy, and I HATE the murderers chant. Gerrard's baby song has been well documented and so as fans we are not blameless (I realise not all).

Carsleys kid, Lescott have been targeted before by some reds but this recieves little coverage, and as mentioned above Pip was walloped by some no-mark for the crime of trying to take a throw-in.

I have some red mates and they are good lads I would do anything for, I do not hate them nor the fans in general. What does wind me up is the glory hunting fan, usually southern, who knows little of football since before the Premier League (which incidentally makes that lot a poor choice for a glory hunter) and the arrogance of the club itself gets right up my trumpet!

Oh and Jamie Carragher, I cant stand him!

Mike Gwyer
8   Posted 04/02/2010 at 10:06:05

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Another issue that’s been done over by all.

Fact of the matter is; the derby has changed. No longer fun loving derby days which has included Wembley trips for the FA, League or Charity Cup’s — standing next to a red or a blue singing & dancing, getting pissed. Happy days. Oh yeah; and for a blue probably losing.

Now the atmosphere IS intense. The RS hate losing, they always have, but at Anfield they were pretty much the untouchables. However, when the back pass to the keeper was trumped, the RS started to nose dive – no more 1 nil’s and sitting on it.

Then a succession of absolute shite RS managers buying absolute shite players; well things degraded further. Now they shit themselves for most home games; but worse, they are no longer taking the piss out of Everton — no longer playing the “Toffee’s for a laugh”.

For the blues, win or lose on Saturday is irrelevant. The RS know we are coming and what pisses them off is that they know they will have a game. For Carragher and Stevie G, it’s no longer for a laugh, jesting when they win 3-or 4-nil to any and all bluenoses... No, it's definitely no fun anymore; that’s because they know they can be beat and those fuckers hate it.

Matthew Mackey
9   Posted 04/02/2010 at 10:16:23

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Everton’s motto is "Nothing but the best"
Liverpool’s motto is "It's always someone else's fault"

Need I say more?
Larry Boner
10   Posted 04/02/2010 at 09:54:15

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1989 and a load of blues and reds sitting round a table in Fords waiting for the semi-final draw, it was us, Norwich, Liverpool and Forest. We did our own little draw with bits of paper and it came out us v Forest, them v Norwich, we wrote it down to compare with actual draw. All were agreed that we wanted to meet in the Final again so when it came out as us v Norwich and them v Forest we were all happy.

If the draw had been us v them, it would have been at Old Trafford and Hillsborough would never have happened. Everyone sitting round that table went to the semis, thankfully all came back alive, but we were all changed forever. I still can't look at footage from the disaster, because it could so easily have been my two brothers, my Dad and myself, who all had tickets for Villa, who were caught up in that nightmare.

When we came out of Villa Park and found out the extent of the disaster, no-one spoke all the way home. My brother had family friends went to the Liverpool game and when he got home, the wives and parents were at his house, unable to contact the fathers and sons who went to the game; thanfully they eventually reached them and they were OK (no mobiles then).

When we got into work Monday, no-one was interested in Everton's result and we all wanted the competition abandoned as a mark of respect for those who died.

20 odd years later, I still have that piece of paper with Everton v Forest, Liverpool v Norwich written on it. To this day, I have never heard Everton fans sing about Hillsborough, but I have though seen the video clip of Spirit of Shankly singing about the Munich air crash.

I was also at Old Trafford when they held a minute's silence for Matt Busby and you could hear a pin drop, not a sound from the thousands of Evertonians.

Jamie Rowland
11   Posted 04/02/2010 at 10:36:22

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It may be hostile in the stadium (I’ve had bottles etc come my way — and sadly I’ve seen them thrown back).

But, when you leave the stadium and go back to your normal life, it's all friendly again. The banter is the best I’ve experienced: LFC fans or EFC fans dont chant ’we beat the scum 3 -0’ at every game after the derby (whereas Arsenal fans do)...

We have a joke about it and we wind the shite out of each other but by and large it's friendly.

The murderer shouts are in no way connected to Hillsborough... anyone who thinks that is either stupid or doesn’t follow the Merseyside game in any way. Even at Wembley, us Blues had banners about Justice for the 96... Blues attended the memorial masses at Anfield and I can remember attaching my scarf at both ends to LFC scarves as we made the chain to Anfield... please DON'T go there until you categorically can state facts to prove that Everton fans sing about Hillsborough.
Jamie Rowland
12   Posted 04/02/2010 at 10:43:39

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Phil Bellis
Who is John Houlding? :D
Paul Gladwell
13   Posted 04/02/2010 at 10:55:28

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Jamie it’s not friendly in town after the final whsistle mate, neither down County road or wherever the Urchins organise to meet up with The young Everton scallies and throw in most boozers across Merseyside as the beer flows it’s bitter from morning till night whether it is the Halfway in Prenton or any pub you wish to name in the City and both sets of supporters are as bad as each other.
And as for Hillsborough there maybe no chants but I have seen a few gestures and heard a few shouts,
Ciarán McGlone
14   Posted 04/02/2010 at 11:26:30

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Blue paint over the Hillsborough memorial - pre-derby circa 199_ [can’t remember]..

I think we have a problem admitting we have a right fair few knobs in our ranks.

Interesting that someone mentioned the treatment Lescott got by red scum — do you think he’ll get any better when he finally comes back here?
Chris Butler
15   Posted 04/02/2010 at 11:39:53

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That what the media said, Ste — not me.
Chris Butler
16   Posted 04/02/2010 at 11:42:13

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Ciaran, as I’ve said, the 12th anniversary of Hillsborough was wrecked by idiots shouting. I’ve heard many people make comments and people would love me to say that Everton fans never do anything wrong. I’ve heard Everton suppoters shout ridiculous things about reds. My article was truthful rather than making up a load on nonsense.
Kevin Fitzsimons
17   Posted 04/02/2010 at 11:33:07

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Larry Boner, spot on the mark… When life and limb are at stake, Football is nothing and means nothing.

Evertonians do blame the RS for the demise of our beloved club during and after the 5-year ban... I know, I am one of them.

Had it been United or Spurs involved in that horrible event, I am not so sure that the bitterness would be as strong or last as long.

When we lose a game, I immediately look to see if the RS have lost. If they lose I feel that life is bearable once again. My missus cannot understand it. She says I should be more concerned about results involving teams around us in the table.

I say “What’s logic got to do with it?” (starting to sound like Tina Turner)...

I have many many friends who, sadly, have been inflicted with a love of the RS. The banter is always good natured to a point but when a neutral asks why I hate the RS so much I talk about the 5-year ban… suddenly there is quiet and my Red loving friends say nothing and the conversation moves on.
Do I hate the people … NO… it’s the concept of Liverpool that I hate, the inanimate object. The THING that destroyed the later part of the 80s.

As for the actual people, I sometimes feel sorry for them in that they do not have a specific target for their own cataclysmic decline. They just have to wallow in their own mediocracy.

But that’s the History.

And if you know your History…

So let’s have the Blood and Thunder derby. Bring on the vitriol, the anger, the tribal frustrations and let's revel in a few hours of Neanderthal magic… Then, come 5pm, let's tidy up, put all our toys away and wash our hands for tea…. Like good little children should.
Dave Wilson
18   Posted 04/02/2010 at 11:35:03

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There can be very little doubt that the once friendly banter has deteriorated into something far more sinister.

I promised myself I would never go near the place again after last season's cup tie. I was sickened by the actions and songs of the reds as I approached the ground from the Kop end before the game, but I was desperately ashamed as red Families cowered and shielded each other in terror as thousands of blues poured onto Anfield Rd after the game, many screaming obscenities and shouting "murdering bastards" at them.

We’re scousers, we’re meant to have a great sense of humour, surely we have a bit more to offer than mindless chants and intimidation.

I will go to Anfield Saturday — can't stay away — but I would love to think the Reds can walk down Anfield Road without fear for their safety. If the Kopites want to play in the gutter, leave them there. We’re Everton!

Ernie Baywood
19   Posted 04/02/2010 at 12:20:59

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"Every time Everton and Liverpool meet, the media always bang on about how the Merseyside Derby is no longer friendly anymore."

No, they crap on about the friendly derby and how we mingle without violence. That’s the soundbite they love and we all think "erm, it’s not 100% like that anymore".

Hillsborough, no, that doesn’t happen. No idea where you got that from. Certainly not from going to the match or living anywhere near Liverpool.

I’ve got Liverpool supporting friends and I’ve got Liverpool supporting family. My dear old Grandad was one of them. Nothing new, nothing sinister, not worth talking about.

So why write this article?
David Booth
20   Posted 04/02/2010 at 13:30:49

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As only an honourary Scouser (by virtue of not living on Merseyside, but coming to Everton for more than 30 years), I think we need to be very careful we do not press the self-destruct button here.

There is undoubted rivalry between the two sets of supporters but, from my experiences, it’s as uniquely friendly as it is intense.

I took friends of mine to the Cup Finals in the 80s for example, and they were astounded to see coaches split half-blue and half-red and both sets of fans mingling together throughout the whole day (and night before).

And the entire ground chorusing ’Merseyside’ at the end of the Milk Cup Final, is an experience that will never be repeated. Can you imagine the Mancs doing it?

I can remember being astounded myself as a young lad at my first derby match in 1972 to find hundreds of Kopites in the Gwladys Street.

Later, I enjoyed several matches on the Kop, along with thousands of other Evertonians, with never a hint of trouble.

In line with society in general, the line of demarcation has broadened in recent years — but derby days still have no parallel anywhere else in the country.

Heysel didn’t help and neither does what we perceive as their eternal arrogance (on and off the field).

But I’m saddened when I hear Evertonians dismissing our special relationship as a thing of the past and in many cases, actively decrying or denying it.

It’s a bastion we should be enormously proud of and be doing all we can to preserve and enhance.

On the pitch meanwhile, I hope the team lose the inferiority complex they seem to have inherited again in recent years, starting tomorrow.

We go into this match as the form team, playing much better football than them and more than capable of winning relatively comfortably.

So let’s hope we give Rafa’s rag-bag foreign legion a good hiding, followed by a relaxing drink or two with our loveable neighbours afterwards!
Paul Gladwell
21   Posted 04/02/2010 at 14:41:17

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Dave, I spent many a derby on the kop in the 80s and there was murder, the Sharp goal resulted in murder and a year or so later I witnessed around 300 Everton standing in the middle of the kop kicking shit out of any reds they could get hold of after losing to Beardsley and Aldridge goals.

The 5-0 nightmare caused murder in the Bullens Paddock and I could go on forever... Yes, it was a lot less angry, but there has been trouble for years, long before Heysel to be used as the main cause.

It was more friendly than all the other derbies once, but there has always been a good amount of violence in the 30-odd years I have been going, but certainly Heysel and the arrogant Sky Sports red has fuelled hatred on our side which has then fuelled hatred on their side at us being bitter.

Adam Cunliffe
22   Posted 04/02/2010 at 16:34:22

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I absolutley hate the derby because it means so much to me. I can’t say I’ve ever experienced a derby from the 80s, or even the 90s for that matter, but to me this game means everything.

For 90 minutes, me and my dad will swear, scream and shout because for that 90 minutes we despise the red shite. They're all just one huge bunch of walking, talking banner-waving hypocrites.

Yet in school, for the past 11 years of my life, I have been best friends with a load of them. Football is very passionate, and as a supporter, I’m very passionate about football, and when someone brings up the derby, I’ll go on a huge rant about everything Clattenburg, Rafa and even Heysel (which shows just exactly how much the "everything red is wrong" mantra has been built into me).

But after the game, I’ll go to school on Monday, for the first few lessons we’ll take the piss out of each other, pay up a few debts then we’ll ask out form tutor how Sheffield United got on.

The Derby is a horrible game. Things are said/done which aren’t a true refelection of how the majority of supporters feel. I’ve sang the Gerrard song. Not because it’s true or because I mean it, but because it’s a Merseyside derby and when fellow Evertonians start singing it, I just end up joining in. Doesn’t make me a scally or a scum bag because Gerrard is a bloody amazing player and I’ll be the first to admit that.

Things will be said, things will be done... but afterwards, it will all be forgotten about till the next game. It’s the heat of the moment and nothing is meant by it. Just remember folks, a Liverpool fan is just an Evertonian who hasn’t quite evolved yet.

Oh and ps: I’d never dream of singing about Hillsborough because I had a cousin there who was a red, so to make a claim like that about Evertonians is, quite frankly a fucking disgrace.
Trevor Williams
23   Posted 04/02/2010 at 16:45:02

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I wouldn't even know if the Kopites were singing insulting songs to us anyway as I don't understand Norwegian.

As for Hillsborough, I am pretty sure the majority of Everton fans knew someone at that horrific game and sadly some lost good friends... I have never heard any chant about it from any fans, period.

My 3 brothers are kopites.

Carragher devoted a chapter to us as he has fuck all else to talk about.
Larry Boner
24   Posted 04/02/2010 at 17:13:49

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Trevor, how come you have got 3 Norwegian brothers with a name like Williams?
Gareth Humphreys
25   Posted 04/02/2010 at 16:36:47

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Chris Butler - If you are referring to the time I think you are, then you need to read Greg Murphy’s piece in When Skies Are Grey entitled "A bit bitter this." It was nothing to do with Hillsborough - it was someone asking why Heysel was not getting mentioned when every other football disaster was. It will also give you an insight to the misnomer that is the "bitter blue". Get your facts right before you start spouting absolute shite.

This brings me on to my other points.

(1) Anyone who does not think there is a unique historical relationship between the clubs is a fool.
(2) Anyone who does not think there is a unique historical relationship between the fans is a fool.
(3) Anyone who throws a punch at a match because someone is sitting in the “wrong end” is a fool.
(4) We have as many dickheads supporting us as they do them.
(5) I have as many red mates as blue and doubt I am alone.

The feistier things are is a direct correlation between how many knobheads there are who think a bit of fisticuffs is called for against a red/blue in the wrong end at the match.

Nothing whatsoever to do with the clubs, Chris. Like most of your other articles, I think you are way off the mark here.
Kevin Sparke
26   Posted 04/02/2010 at 17:55:58

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The derby match has always been ’tasty’ for as long as I can remember and that’s since the mid/late 1970s.

There have always been incidents in and around the ground and the town centre. That’s why a copper couldn’t get leave on the day of the game and it was an overtime free for all.

What is different with Everton & Liverpool us that the violence was never organised — it was never one mob taking on another mob. Generally, it was mates who had one or two too many bevvies and a belly full of the piss-taking having a swing at each other.

I remember post-match 1981 jumping the counter in the Yankee Bar, Lime Street to pull down the LFC flag they had draped over the optics and getting a good kicking for my troubles... served me right, it was their alehouse and I took liberties.

What has changed in the ground is segregation. When the Kop was a quarter Evertonians and the Paddock full of their foul and leprous faces there were hardly any confrontational chants but loads of piss-taking chants.

"Phil Thompson, Phil Thompson — I’d walk a million miles to the end of your nose, Phil Thompson"

To my knowledge I have never heard a scouser disrespect Hillsborough — there was too much pain for the city... any Evertonian who does engage in this stuff is nothing to do with any Everton I know.

Chris Butler; I challenge you — name your sources or shut the fuck up with this type of useless and damaging innuendo — you’re serving no purpose by making this stuff up.
Andy Crooks
27   Posted 04/02/2010 at 18:23:37

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I’ve witnessed someone being badly beaten for supporting the wrong team. Sometimes I wonder is my wife right. Are we all inadequate men living our lives through something as silly as a game?
Charles King
28   Posted 04/02/2010 at 19:45:11

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Everton and Liverpool’s history up to the 70s were similar, the fans could argue and counter-argue till the cows come home and the fans' conduct at the friendly derby (overstated in my opinion) was self-regulated as a result.

But once Liverpool stretched away, their supporters wasted no time declaring that among other things we were "the shit of merseyside" which via TV became a familiar taunt wherever we played.

Younger supporters will simply not understand the stranglehold Liverpool had on British and European football for a considerable period, their dominance produced the most insufferable arrogance which Man utd and Chelsea still haven’t reached, oozing contempt for all and sundry.

So I agree, the Hillsborough tragedy, along with the Munich and Bradford tragedies, should never be sullied; however, I suspect the Hillsborough campaign among some reds is as much to do with restoring the fans' reputation as whitewashing of Heysel. Their arrogance lets them believe no-one can see it, dickheads.

David O'Keefe
29   Posted 04/02/2010 at 21:29:34

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"Journalists with Liverpool sympathies blame so-called sick blues who mock the Hillsborough disaster, chant "Murderers" and sing songs about their players."

Either give us a source or retract it.
Derek Thomas
30   Posted 04/02/2010 at 21:29:49

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Long long ago in a Galaxy far far away; we as kids used, when the paper money allowed go to Anfield ( just say it in hushed tones 2nd division) I went to the Cologne (both the snowed off one and the replay) and Inter games and others.

But that was then and this is now

They didn’t used to be but now they are.

Poor winners... even poorer losers.

Ther are just what it says on the tin: REDSHITE
David Hallwood
31   Posted 04/02/2010 at 22:09:38

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If you talk to the old timers there has always been trouble at derby games, but if you’ve got 40-50 thousand people, you’ll always get a percentage that want to have a go.

But like everyone, I’ve never heard a Hillsborough chant, and I go to every home game and I use to be home and away, and if someone started singing one, I’d tell them to fuck off. The strange thing about Hillsborough is that I went to the semi at Villa Park and I can’t remember a single thing about the game.
Chris Butler
32   Posted 04/02/2010 at 22:50:51

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16 April 2001, a minute's silence interrupted by Everton supporters, leading it to get cut short.
Chris Butler
33   Posted 04/02/2010 at 22:52:44

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Read the article there, not my opinions — their newspapers. If you can still get it online, The Times, dated 6 Feb 2007, made some reference to Everton fans chanting murderers and mocking the Hillsborough disaster. Again not my words, theirs. If you read it, rather than just looking at one word, you would understand. Journalists with Liverpool sympathies... not all journalists but some. I didn’t say that I believed that, I said they believe that.
Kevin Sparke
34   Posted 04/02/2010 at 22:51:09

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David Hallwood - I was at the Semi at Villa Park and all I can remember is the rumours from the lads who had radios.

I think there was an announcement on the tannoy at half time to say the match was abandoned due to ’serious crowd disturbance’

On the way out I asked a Birmingham copper what was going on and I’ll never forget his reply

"30 scousers dead after invading the pitch and if you lot kick off there will be thirty more"

Not one word was spoken on the way home as we listened to the BBC talking about the rising casualty figure,

An awful day.

I have heard the ’Hillsborough song’ sung by Leeds supporters after they saw my mates Liverpool shirt in Leeds Railway station and I went to a cricket match at Old Trafford and some Manc dick tried to get the song going with his mates when heard my accent in the queue for beer but was shouted down by the lads he was with

If I ever heard Everton supporters singing about Hillsborough - I think I’d have watched my last match.
Mark Reid
35   Posted 04/02/2010 at 23:30:08

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Just one point.

Tim Cahill or Mikel Arteta produce an autobiography. Do you think either of them would have an entire chapter revolving around LFC?

No. Jamie Carragher uses us like some sort of pantomine villain. When its well known in his younger days, and his hangers on he was no saint, especially where drink was concerned....

Him putting Everton in it, was purely a marketing ploy to increase circulation.
Mark Reid
36   Posted 04/02/2010 at 23:52:39

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Oh and if anyone knows the words to the so called "Hillsborough chant" can you post them on here.

Because neither I — nor any Blue I know — actually knows what this chant is or what the words are.

So how can we be chanting something no one actually knows about, other than the media (Randles, Echo published 03.02.2010) have implied.

I’ve been a blue 30 years... followed 'em to games 25 years and since then have never heard a chant on that subject.
Chris Leyland
37   Posted 05/02/2010 at 00:33:50

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Just a few comments.

I know a lad who died at Hillsborough. I remember having to tell some of his mates that he was dead as my girlfriend at the time was in his class at school. I went to Anfield and laid flowers for him.

I went to the 1989 FA Cup Final and it was a top game. I also danced with joy the same year when Arsenal beat them to the title. l once twated a Spurs fan in 1990 for making a joke about Hillsborough. I also stood on the Kop in 1986 (a nightmare year) when we beat them 2-0 and there was plenty of trouble.

I have never heard any Hillsborough songs sung by our fans. I have heard murder chants and that is about Heysel and it is true. Unfortunately I had to go on their website today as I have a mate coming over from Ireland to watch us against Man U and he also wants to go to the theatre of shite on the Thursday to watch them in the Europa.

I read their official history about Heysel and it is a disgrace. It in no way apportions any blame to their fans, It doesn’t mention the fact than a number of them served time because of it.

I went to the cup game at their shitty ground last year in the main stand and felt uncomfortable for the 90 mins.

I hate them. I despise them. I particularly hate the southern and foreign fans but at the end of the day some of them are alright.

Ste Traverse
38   Posted 05/02/2010 at 01:37:58

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How can the Echo print an article by this knob head Dave Randles blantantly accusing us of singing about the tragedy of Hillsboro when we haven’t?

That complete anti-Everton rag has sank as low as the Sun in my opinion.

How that so-called ’Evertonian’ Dave Prentice can allow this is beyond me, he’s a fucking tosspot.
Gareth Humphreys
39   Posted 05/02/2010 at 06:49:39

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Chris you say "as I’ve said, the 12th anniversary of Hillsborough was wrecked by idiots shouting." and then go on to say later on that it was just the newspapers.

Which one is it — do you believe it happened or are you just re-quoting a paper from years ago?

Either you are wrong or they are wrong because, as I said previously, I know exactly the incident you are referring to.

I hope the irony about believing a paper over the Hillsborough disaster is not lost on you.

Stop digging.
Gareth Humphreys
40   Posted 05/02/2010 at 06:56:39

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Another point: I get the impression that it is ok to sing "Murderers" because it’s about Heysel.

Why is there no widespread condemnation of these absolute blurts?

Anyone who has sung this should be banned for life.

A dead body is a dead body be it from Turin or Huyton.
Chris Butler
41   Posted 05/02/2010 at 11:56:25

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Yes, but it was a few idiots Gareth. It did happen, Gareth, but only involved about 10 supporters as thats all it needs to wreck a minutes silence.

"Contrary to the shameful breaking of the minute’s silence before Monday’s Merseyside derby, one particular display of unity has proven that Liverpool and Everton fans can still stand as one". That's from a Liverpool website. So again I wasn’t there. I researched numerous newpapers and that incident was mentioned.

Gareth if you were at the match and this didn’t happen that day then the press are lying. I only added my personal opinion once or twice, the rest was researched through a variety of articles so the article was objective, not just a rant.

David O'Keefe
42   Posted 05/02/2010 at 13:19:16

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This may come as a surprise to you, Chris, but you're wrong and neither Randles nor youreslf can back it up. I was at the McAllistar Derby and the minute's silence was disrupted by the reds not the blues.

A supporter did shout out "What about Hysel?" during the minute's silence for numerous football/Rugby tragedies and disasters in which supporters had died, but they left that one out for obvious reasons. That supporter only said what was on everyone's mind at the time and he was rather loudly shushed by those around him. The minute's silence would have continued if the reds hadn’t kicked off, calling us scum in attempt to regain their place at the high court of sanctimony.

You weren’t there and neither was Randles, who has edited his original smear that you decided to repeat without passing comment on it. The issue here is that you are posting from a position of ignorance and refusing to take responsibility for repeating a lie.
John Daley
43   Posted 05/02/2010 at 13:50:04

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No doubt about it that the atmosphere at derby games has deteriorated into outright hostility between the fans over the last decade. At last seasons league fixture at Goodison a young kopite aged about 13 or 14 was sat the row behind me in the paddock with his mother. She was in her blues kit and he was looking suitably ashamed in his red rags. Now this was a common sight not that long ago and no one would have given the lad any hassle apart from harmless banter. Not now though. Everything was fine until Torres scored his first goal and a group of gobshites decided to turn round and shout a load of threats at this red lad (who didn’t even celebrate the goal by the way). The poor kid looked like he was shitting himself and next time i looked he’d put his big Columbo coat on in an attempt to hide his RS shirt. From that point on any decision that went against Everton was swiftly followed by a load of abuse and threats aimed at this lad. Alright so he was both a red and a ginner but he was fucking harmless. After the second goal went in the abuse aimed towards him got so bad that both he and his old queen decided to get out of there sharpish. I’ll admit i felt like following them because the behaviour of some blues that day was way over the top in my opinion.
Kevin Hudson
44   Posted 05/02/2010 at 14:49:29

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The Merseymart newspaper is carrying a story that says the Hillsborough Disaster is to be taught in schools, as part of the region’s curriculum.

Former Lord Mayor Cllr Steve Rotheram is spearheading the idea, describing it as the "need to embed it in what Liverpool is about, it’s part of our psychology." He states that the tragedy represented a "seminal moment in our city’s history, which must not be forgotten. It is, therefore, the duty of this council to ensure that the many injustices and the lessons learnt as a result of this terrible tragedy are recognised."

Wonderful. No mention of Heysel though...
Gareth Humphreys
45   Posted 05/02/2010 at 15:22:24

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Chris Butler - I only urge you to get hold of the back issues of When Skies are Grey and read Greg Murphy’s article.

You don’t have to take my word for it. Greg and Dave O’Keefe (whom I have never met) where also there and heard exactly what I did.

Stop listening to the papers and listen to people who were there as the lazy journalism you are treating as gospel is, once again, a load of shite.

Brian Lawlor
46   Posted 05/02/2010 at 15:31:12

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David O’Keefe — you are spot on. I was also there and I sit in the park end near the away fans and the lad who shouted “What about Heysel?" was sitting nearby. Some Liverpool fans reacted which prompted other fans to start trying to quieten other fans and it went from there.

I’ve read some of Chris Butler's articles and it wouldn’t surpise me if he was a red.

Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
47   Posted 05/02/2010 at 15:42:32

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"I’ve read some of Chris Butler’s articles and it wouldn’t surpise me if he was a red."

I don’t usually tolerate comments like that but Chris Butler’s contributions have been a challenge, I have to admit. He invariably seems to say something that is clearly wrong or just gets backs up, and when I read this latest one before publication, I almost exploded... but thought, "No, it is derby week... let’s see what people say."

But I have had to strongly edit a number of his pieces and there are at least half-a-dozen of his other contributions sitting in the recycle bin because I have decided not to post them at all (for various reasons).

Chris, I hope you are not a red because I despise the mentality that makes such a call. However, think very carefully about what you write on this Evertonian website, please.

Ciarán McGlone
48   Posted 05/02/2010 at 15:58:08

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Phil Scratton’s book on the issue is well worth a read...
David O'Keefe
49   Posted 05/02/2010 at 15:52:02

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Michael, I don’t think you should tolerate these comments at all, Chris is wrong, but he is only guilty of plagarism and ignorance re: the McAllistair derby. Both are forgivable.

The general thrust of Chris article is correct, but Greg Murphy produced a better article on this issue approximately two years ago. My only wish is that he will admit that he got it wrong on that derby if only we can declare the matter closed.

Larry Boner
50   Posted 05/02/2010 at 15:57:19

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Isn't it the 25th anniversary of the Heysel disaster this year?
I would be amazed and disappointed, disgusted in fact, if this city of ours, never mind LFC, did not have some sort of commemoration planned, twinned with Turin, to remember the people who died that night in Brussels.

Can anyone enlighten me as to whether this has been planned?

Phil Bellis
51   Posted 05/02/2010 at 21:34:55

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Young Jamie,
Sorry to be tardy replying...I’ve been inculcating the South with an appreciation of the Holy Trinity
John Arbuthnot Houlding was the Liverpool FC youth team player who was forced by the pansies (PC sic) in the LFC first team (2006) to don a skirt, split to the thigh, and fishnet stockings to perform "Hey Big Spender" at the Anfield Old Boys Christmas ’do’ in Valeeringen
He ripped off his blouse to reveal a "Big Dunc is God" t-shirt and launched into "We hate Bill shankly"
You wo’n’t ever read about it in the LFC Echo - only ’’proper’ kopites know about this unsavoury incident
btw - the manager before Shankly was Jockie Wilson (the Kop remembers)
Ian Smitham
52   Posted 05/02/2010 at 21:53:23

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Michael, As you know I write into here in support of the site and the facility you and the team provide. I do not agree with most points you make, Lyndon seems to see things more like I do.

That said, as you have often said, it is an open forum and we as Evertonians exchange views all together. Thanks for that and what you provide.

This subject and the manner it has been set up should not have got past a censor as it simply provides no good.

I live in Wilmslow, grew up in Sale near OT and hate Man U, I hate Liverpool FC from the early days when my Dad and Uncle (Dad a Red and Uncle a Blue) took me in 1970 to see Alan Ball and Alan Whittle.

I have stood in the Kop (that bottom left hand corner singing "You fat bastard" at Molby and in blue colours.

I was there at Rotterdam, and sadly (there will be better words to use) at the semi.

At Villa just days before I was there, joining in the fun and as the game started laughing as the reports started of trouble at Hillsborough, only realising as bods near me said it was a real problem and people were dying, the guy behind me aying his sister was there brought a whole new perspective. The ground did silence as around the tragedy became reality.

We won, I swear no one celebrated, I left, rang home to say I was OK (no link) and respect those, and it could have been any of us, who tragically lost out supporting thier beloved team, our ongoing respect to those affected is a credit to our club and mankind.

The article is an abomination.

The "murderers" stuff relates to an entirely different game which I do not wish to comment on as we all have views, my being it denied us.

I have friends who are Reds and they remain the same but on Derby day I do not like them (gently put) but after we remain friends. I have no friends who would gloat at our loss, they know how they feel about their club and me about mine.

I have observed respect for those lost both at GP and OT and there can be no greater respect than that of those who have passed away.

Both and all clubs have idiots, but to try to ignite a feud on here is poor form and I hope that next time the contributor is removed.
Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
53   Posted 06/02/2010 at 07:17:54

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Ian, I don’t disagree with you.. and I did think more than twice about whether to publish this piece. Thing is, I think Chris Butler needs putting straight, and the best people to do it are Evertonians who know the facts. They have stepped forward and called him on his errors and mis-statements, which I appreciate.

Chris hasn’t responded to my post but something tells me I don’t think we’ll be hearing too much more from him. Will he have learn’t anything from this? Unlikely, I know. He has resisted every every correction and none of us like to admit in public we were wrong about something.
Brian Lawlor
54   Posted 06/02/2010 at 08:45:42

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Previous articles include defending Wayne Rooney in which he criticises Evertonians, the atmosphere at Goodison in which he criticises Evertonians, the Merseyside Derby in which he criticises Evertonians. All articles are littered with inaccuracies and hearsay. Michael has added now that he has to edit his submissions. I stand by what I said and I’m not on my own that its very possible he’s a red
Chris Butler
55   Posted 06/02/2010 at 11:23:29

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David O Keefe, if that happned shame on them. If that's the case then the newspapers should stop lying about it.

Brian Lawlor what a load on nonsense. I want us to win every game against the red lot just as much as you do. I included lots of different sources from reading the echo to other papers and magazines.

Michael my internets been broke. Michael I haven’t made untrue comments. I’ve heard blues making comments about Hillsborough. I didn’t mention in the article that we sang songs about Hillsborough.

The only thing is was wrong about is something only David O Keefe who was at the match who claims that it was Liverpool supporters that broke the silence which is contary to what the Mirror, Times, Star, Four Four Two and a Liverpool website said. If those newspapers were wrong, fine... I’ll have to research 10 papers for information.

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