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Kevin Hudson
1   Posted 05/05/2010 at 00:05:56

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Even if your glass is half-empty, I think you've had too much Sangria, Rafa..
Nick Entwistle
2   Posted 05/05/2010 at 00:04:52

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Right, where do we stand?

I would argue that EVERYONE is a small club if you're not 'Big 4'.

At the same time as Newcastle and Leeds were imploding, the 3 CL positions expanded to 4. 7th and 8th were not capable of bridging the gap left by Leeds and Newcastle and the 'Big 4' was cemented.

It doesn't matter what teams have won the FA and League Cup, both of those count for fuck all nowadays. A route into the Europa. Big deal.

The Big 4 due to CL qualification can get the players who won't consider not playing in the CL, they get the money, they get the squads.

Those who argue that is shouldn't be just about money when qualifying in the top 4 are right. But then everything that Moyes does to make us so good on a shoe string, well that's done at those above us also, then add in the millions to gain that better quality player.

So are we small time? Yes... But only because the system engineers it thus.
Do we think of ourselves as historically small? No. But unless we or someone else can grab that 4th CL place and call it theirs, then everyone is small compared to teams who have players worth so much more, on so much more money, with so many international fans. CL is where its at.

Still, screw the other teams and how we compare. We all know who we are and what our history stands for. We know we have no money, we know we have a small squad. But when we do break through, we will shout louder than all those others in the top 4 because we earned that right and were not the beneficiaries of circumstance.

Right now, we're small with a big heart, where as the big teams today are lacking in soul. And if we talk about Liverpool too much, then what's the problem? Every team in the world has their rivals so let's not dismiss an integral part of football society.

Plus, we know the reds are a bunch of fuckers.... SO THERE!

Bob Parrington
3   Posted 05/05/2010 at 01:12:23

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Thomas, when I read the title of your article I expected it might be about the club, the management, the coaching staff etc. This could have raised some great and varied responses.

But you seem only to be having a go at the supporters. Having been a keen traveller to games all over England and Europe from 1953 onwards until I finally migrated to Australia 23 years ago, I can understand your comments about being gutted after some matches. I'm still the same at 62 years of age.

Watching most games on Fox Sports it's not easy to get a full picture of the atmosphere at some games so I can't say too much on that but when I get to Goodison once and occasionally twice a season it is always great.

But, hey, by getting at the supporters the way you did in this article seems to assume you are the only one who is frustrated as hell/gutted or whatever when I reckon most of us feel the same. Just read Kevin and Nick's responses.

What we need is some success. We just seem to be going through a long barren spell. I'm an optimist and I think we're getting better but we shouldn't leave it too long before making some bold moves to take us back to the top.

Hang in there! We WILL get back our supremacy over the RS.

Jamie Sweet
4   Posted 05/05/2010 at 01:17:26

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Stunning rant there Thomas... but I think you go on about the RS too much... give it a rest!
Derek Thomas
5   Posted 05/05/2010 at 03:57:19

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Short version:

A bit harsh, but correct in essence.


5th or 6th or what ever is not the new 1st.

The CL 4 teams qualify has devalued everything.

Corny I know, but back in the day, 1st got into the European Cup, 2nd (unless it was us of course) had the minor prize of the UEFA CUP ( and it WAS minor). The FACup was Glory with a capital G and the Cup Winners Cup was, some seasons harder to win than the European cup. Due to the fact that Teams on the 'up ' won their Knockout Trophy and peaked the next season to win their league... case in point, US 84 - 85.

5th or what ever, is by that criteria MEDIOCRITY...but... as with the devaluing of the CL / Top 4, so mediocrity has been devalued (yes it can be and has )

Too many people don't even Remember when we had really really good teams and finished FIRST not 2nd or 3rd or 4th FFS.

Mediocrity has been transmogrified in to something good, something to be aspired to, into...

Gareth Humphreys
6   Posted 05/05/2010 at 07:13:52

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Thomas, I sort of see where you are coming from but 15 major trophies in over 130 years tells me that winning has never been a habit.
Paul Gladwell
7   Posted 05/05/2010 at 08:27:09

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Thomas, you whine on about us cheering the demise of the reds as being small time, well what does that make them too, as they are actually worse. "Cockney for a day" flags against Chelsea in that shithole. It`s just football nature that is all and we are only like this to one club, they have this obsession for Us, Utd and Chelsea.

I will never forget the red shites most enjoyable week in football for years, it involved not a minute of football for them, their joy was over us and the Mancs losing a cup final each in a week last May, lads wearing Barca shirts for work etc.

And last Sunday I witnessed some prick in my local with a 70s kopite shirt on cheer Drogba's goal, so I take it the shite have an even smaller club attitude than us.

Colin Potter
8   Posted 05/05/2010 at 08:42:22

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I agree in parts Thomas, because years ago the fans would have hounded that lying bastard Kenwright out of this club for the shite that has spewed out of his mouth.
Alan Kirwin
9   Posted 05/05/2010 at 10:09:53

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Everton fans are a diverse bunch.

Many of us neither give a toss about any other club including LFC, nor do we spout Nil Satis Nisi Optimum every week in the belief that we should be top of the league. We simply support the club and our views on most things can range from depressed to ecstatic.

Some Evertonians have a disproportionate interest in the fortunes of Liverpool FC. That's unhealthy. Some have even posted on here to indicate a preference for their misfortune over our success. That's sick.

Some Evertonians inhabit a world of near paranoia, where the slightest suggestion that we should not be upset if we finish 4th, or 5th or whatever, attracts whistles of derision that one dare contemplate a club with a Latin motto and that has achieved one 4th place finish in 23 years shouldn't be expecting to win the league.

Evertonia is a mixed constituency. The arguments on here bear evidence to the diference in views, expectations and tolerance amongst us.

I simply don't inhabit the polarised world that some do. It's too George Bush, all this shit that you're either with us or against us. It is entirely possible to be a total 100% Evertonian in mind, body & spirit, and yet retain a sense of perspective, and courtesy and, in most cases, have a life.

Somebody once said "the past is an interesting place, but you wouldn't want to live there". To paraphrase; we are where we are. There are now teams with higher expectations than us who we used to crap on 25 years ago (Chelsea, Man City, ManU, Arsenal). It goes around. All we can do is keep trying.

And to those who despair at the "power" of ManU, City, Chelsea etc, be sure it won't last forever. In fact in just 2 years' time the hard work of Michel Platini will start to pay dividends. Clubs will not be allowed to spend what they don't have. Everyone will have to re-enter the real world.

Keep the faith.
Ciarán McGlone
10   Posted 05/05/2010 at 10:25:54

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Twice, in a matter of days..

We've got to stop meeting like this Alan.
Derek Turnbull
11   Posted 05/05/2010 at 10:30:27

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I hate that word 'smalltime'.

Ask yourself what is bigtime?

How do you go the match and act bigtime, please tell me, because I want to avoid acting bigtime as you'll look a pretentious tit.
Phil Bellis
12   Posted 05/05/2010 at 10:34:21

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You seem to have a problem with Latin - are you not, then, ex-Grammar School?
We Jesuit-trained, like EJ Ruane, Alfred Hitchcock and Paul Merton had a love of the language beaten into us
David Hallwood
13   Posted 05/05/2010 at 10:59:51

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So let me get this right; Liverpool fans want us to do well, or don't really care if we do well and if we win a trophy que sera. Spurs/Arsenal fans feel the same way as do Inter/Milan fans, Real/Athletico... it's only us that take pleasure in our rivals coming unstuck?
Jimmy Hacking
14   Posted 05/05/2010 at 11:24:21

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Revelling in your rivals misfortune (thin on the ground with that lot of jammy sods) is a large part of the fun when it comes to football and I for one wouldn't change that for the world.

Yes, I want the Blues to succeed first and foremost but if the RS are having a bad time it's the cherry on the cake.
Steve Pugh
15   Posted 05/05/2010 at 11:23:45

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Total Sense, Alan. Nothing more to add.
Tony J Williams
16   Posted 05/05/2010 at 12:32:54

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"Coming out of Wembley jubilant that we LOST a cup final" I've yet to meet one fan who was "jubilant" over that day in May, all the fans I walked passed were fuming or very quiet, the train journey home was like a scene from One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest, all morose and suicidal.

I suppose that when my RedShite mates text me when we get beat is not smalltime but just banter because they are above us in the legue then? Ripping your nearest opponent goes hand in hand with football and it will never change. I hate them but I also hate Villa and Newcastle, if that makes he smalltime, even though one has just been in a league below us, then smalltime I am.
Kevin Tully
17   Posted 05/05/2010 at 14:27:34

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After 30 years of listening to redshites who have never set foot in Anfield, you can't blame some of us for hating the pricks, can you?

I hope they sell all their best players, no-one buys them, they never build a new ground, the pay the FSW £16 mill to leave, along with his 23 Spanish staff, the banks foreclose and sell all their assests, they never win another trophy, Torres is injured and cannot play again, Gerrard is outed as gay by Carragher after being jilted by him... apart from that, I hope they do well.
Danny Burke
18   Posted 05/05/2010 at 13:50:49

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I can't stand the red shite and the arrogance of many of their glory-hunting supporters (met a cockney RS, said he was a mad Liverpool supporter but had never been to Liverpool nevermind the match because, .... wait for it... he doesn't like scousers!!??!! Couldnt make it up!).

I wanted them to lose to Atletico and I was even glad Forlan scored; however, if them winning the Europa would have given another league place in Europe, I would have wanted them to win as it would benefit us. If some magical being said you can win the FA Cup but they win the league, I would take it because WE WIN A CUP! I don't like them and I don't want them to win but I'm concerned about all things Everton first and foremost.

I also can't say I saw anyone around Wembley jubilant about losing the Cup Final. There was an element of pride about having got there beating the teams we did, but utter disappointment and a sense of a missed opportunity having not been at the races that day.

Charles King
19   Posted 05/05/2010 at 17:57:03

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The issue with Liverpool is they transformed from Second Division non-entity to become the most successful club in English football and conquered Europe in 5 mins flat, there was hardly a setback en route and at the same time we went into relative decline. If you lived through the consequences of that, you do spit at the mention of the name; I notice I use the term "Merseyside" to describe where I'm from, just human nature.
Alan Clarke
20   Posted 05/05/2010 at 18:40:42

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I think there is more interest in Liverpool losing if you live on Merseyside. If Liverpool win and Everton lose or if Liverpool continue in a competition that Everton aren't involved in or have been knocked out of, you have to put up with their fans gloating and rubbing your nose in it all the time. Liverpool fans (like most fans) are not gracious in victory, they will take every opportunity to remind you of their history of trophies and what a small club Everton are. If you work and live amongst Liverpool supporters, you have to put up with this shite day in day out.

I worked in Liverpool for the duration of the season we finished 4th. I took great delight in us finishing above them only for them to laugh in my face when they came back from 3-0 down against Milan to win the Champions League. If you live and work amongst Liverpool fans you understand why there is an obsession with them losing. You shouldn't question it.
Alan Kirwin
21   Posted 06/05/2010 at 11:44:54

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Phil Bellis - Au contrare mon brave. I love Latin. I was rather good at it at Grammar School (Cardinal Allen in West Derby).

But that's not the point, is it? The point is the small-minded nonsense that latches on to a motto. I mean, our motto could have said "vestri inimicus sursum solum". It sounds equally impressive. It means, roughly, "take your opponent up the arse"

I'm just arguing for a sense of perspective and to not get too despondent when we do OK. There's no divine right here, we just try every year. And, whilst it may sound paradoxical having just slipped from 5th to 8th, I sense we are getting closer. I think next season could be an absolute cracker.

Nil desperandum, dear boy. It's not life and death.
Chris Butler
22   Posted 06/05/2010 at 14:06:14

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The reality is he makes some decent points, we are currently a moaning bunch. Look at Stoke for example: on Saturday, while Everton supporters complained and moaned, Stoke fans were getting behind their team.

First of all Everton fans clearly are dissapointed about this season but, when you look at November, most supporters would have accepted a mid-table finish. Stoke fans made a racket on Saturday which seemed to spur on the team. The Everton players trudged off the pitch heads down looking away from the fans while Stoke players and fans looked pretty happy.

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