The Mail Bag
Be careful what you wish for?
Comments (35)
All those of you who are desperate for BK to sell out should have read an article in the Mail last week about Man. City. A lifelong City man felt that the club was now just a whore for rich foreigners like the bent Thai and now the over wealthy Abu Dhabi's.
I have just come back from teaching in Kuwait and it works very much the same way as the Emirates. These are institutionally racist countries who exploit ex-pats mercilessly. Do you want our great club owned and controlled by these people who see all their employees as their possessions and property (this was said to me by the school's owner). These are countries without any real culture outside the restricting and suffocating influence of Islam.
Yes, they have oil money to burn and it seems that for the time being treasured aspects of British sport are there to be purchased on a whim, used as marketing tools for their own commerce. I could tell you more if you go to http://q8undressed.wordpress.com/
Trevor Powell, Posted 04/08/2009 at 20:25:18
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Andy Crooks
2 Posted 05/08/2009 at 01:00:45
2 Posted 05/08/2009 at 01:00:45
Trevor, you describe these countries as "institutionally racist" yet go on to describe them as "countries without any real culture". Does that not strike you as being a slightly racist comment? In an ideal world we would find an investor born and bred in Liverpool, a life-long Evertonian with £500 million to throw away. In the absence of such a benefactor surely any investment, untainted by crime, would be welcome.
Alex Pantlin
3 Posted 05/08/2009 at 01:31:55
3 Posted 05/08/2009 at 01:31:55
Sorry Andy, I disagree. I would rather be just outside the ’big 4’ and have the pride that we currently have, of building a team with spirit. I believe that the Nouveau Riche clubs are simply trying to buy the Prem title. This, in my eyes takes the competition off the pitch and in to the boardroom/banks/investors.
We currently have something that a lot of clubs desire, the ability to do well in the league and FA Cup without selling out. Unlike Newcastle and Liverpool fans, I don't believe we have a god-given right to succeed... remember, only one team per season can win the Prem. I would rather be where we are now, fighting with pride, than begging for investment from any port in a storm. I support a team, not an investor.
Steve Carter
4 Posted 05/08/2009 at 00:59:27
4 Posted 05/08/2009 at 00:59:27
Agree entirely, Trevor. The way I look at it, at least I support a real team (or at least something that resembles one in these Sky money (etc.) gone mad times), with all its ups and downs - the Cahills and the Koldrups, Kenwright, Tony Marsh and the other bloke whose glass is always full, rusty old Goodison Park with the little Church in the corner.
Gavin Ramejkis
5 Posted 05/08/2009 at 08:01:55
5 Posted 05/08/2009 at 08:01:55
An interesting piece and blog that Nick Griffin would have been proud of but yet remained nameless, was it yours? Two simple questions though, if it was so bad how long did you stay there and why if it was so bad? Surely the ignorance of acceptance is global; whether or not you understand or agree with cultures no matter how old, bizarre, one sided or unfair they may seem makes you equally as rascist as the charges you raise.
I do know a fair few Citeh and Chelski fans upset at what is going on but also resigned to the fact the game is ran by money and morals have fallen by the wayside, not joining in puts your team at a massive disadvantage and in the crosshairs of the money men to pillage your resources.
I do know a fair few Citeh and Chelski fans upset at what is going on but also resigned to the fact the game is ran by money and morals have fallen by the wayside, not joining in puts your team at a massive disadvantage and in the crosshairs of the money men to pillage your resources.
Richard Dodd
6 Posted 05/08/2009 at 08:08:27
6 Posted 05/08/2009 at 08:08:27
Yes, Steve. We support a real team with a real manager and, most importantly, a real Chairman. Our great Club has heart and long may it continue to beat without the incursion of smutty money to turn it sour.
Michael Lynch
7 Posted 05/08/2009 at 09:11:52
7 Posted 05/08/2009 at 09:11:52
Trevor, i hear what youre saying and it all sounds very noble. Unfortunately its the only way we can ever hope to progress. I want to have some real glory days to look back upon in my lifetime. At the end of the day no-one remembers losing cup finalists or the teams that finish anywhere other than first. If it means we are money men whores for a while who cares? Every top club in world football is a whore. Thats just the way it is.
Rupert Sullivan
8 Posted 05/08/2009 at 09:21:20
8 Posted 05/08/2009 at 09:21:20
Pre-supposing a person’s behaviour in the running of a football club based on the religion in their country seems extreme to me Trevor, and as for writing off the semite nations... surely this is about money and not nationality/ religion? We live in a world where money can pretty much achieve anything, so why shouldn’t the man with the money act like that?
Hey ho - I personnaly don’t want EFC to be run by any one person, I want it run by the fans who elect a Chairman every few tears like Barca - but hey, I’m not the man with the money!
Hey ho - I personnaly don’t want EFC to be run by any one person, I want it run by the fans who elect a Chairman every few tears like Barca - but hey, I’m not the man with the money!
Ray Said
9 Posted 05/08/2009 at 09:14:06
9 Posted 05/08/2009 at 09:14:06
Trevor, what a poor post. You pretty much condem Kuwait and the Emirates yet you were happy to work there and take their money — makes you a bit of a whore, doesn't it? Because you come from another city or country doesn't mean you can't have the best interests of the club at heart.
Here is a tip: try treating people as individuals rather than lumping them all together based on where they come from.
Ciarán McGlone
10 Posted 05/08/2009 at 09:44:44
10 Posted 05/08/2009 at 09:44:44
Good god!
I don’t want to get all political...But I don’t think the Brits can be so judgemental whenever it comes to human rights abuses..
Nor do I think such generalisations are helpful or justified.
I don’t want to get all political...But I don’t think the Brits can be so judgemental whenever it comes to human rights abuses..
Nor do I think such generalisations are helpful or justified.
Paul Gladwell
11 Posted 05/08/2009 at 09:44:29
11 Posted 05/08/2009 at 09:44:29
A load of crap, if we where in Man City’s position we would be dancing in the streets just like they are.
Alls we have is moans, lies and shit football year after year and not much to shout about.
I am proud of our working class club background but how can people moan about selling our soul and yet vote yes to kirkby?
I have accepted certain things in football now and I would take a billionaire over Billy Liar tommorow.
Being rich means we could cream over taking 15,000 to Madrid,Milan etc in the Champions league instead of creaming over taking 10,000 to a no mark German club in a second rate competition, it’s sad but that is how our great game has become.
Alls we have is moans, lies and shit football year after year and not much to shout about.
I am proud of our working class club background but how can people moan about selling our soul and yet vote yes to kirkby?
I have accepted certain things in football now and I would take a billionaire over Billy Liar tommorow.
Being rich means we could cream over taking 15,000 to Madrid,Milan etc in the Champions league instead of creaming over taking 10,000 to a no mark German club in a second rate competition, it’s sad but that is how our great game has become.
Mark Stone
12 Posted 05/08/2009 at 09:41:28
12 Posted 05/08/2009 at 09:41:28
I’m convinced that the cost of building and sustaining a squad which has the capability of consistently challenging for the Premier League and Champions League would cost considerably more than the prize on offer ... even including tv money etc etc etc.
If so, then if football is a business, as it so often described, then surely trying to win things would be pointless? It would make more sense, from a business perspective, to optimise profit by keeping overheads low whilst trying to stay in the Premier League in much the way that Everton seem to be doing.
How the hell will Man City (as a business) recoup the money they have spent/will spend on transfers and salaries? What’s the annual profit/loss of teams like Chelsea and Liverpool? If they’re consistently losing money how long can they continue to maintain this?
I guess it’s not a ’business’ to these clubs, it’s a hobby. And the clubs who can afford this hobby have a chance of competing. For the rest of a premier league it a business, maybe.
If so, then if football is a business, as it so often described, then surely trying to win things would be pointless? It would make more sense, from a business perspective, to optimise profit by keeping overheads low whilst trying to stay in the Premier League in much the way that Everton seem to be doing.
How the hell will Man City (as a business) recoup the money they have spent/will spend on transfers and salaries? What’s the annual profit/loss of teams like Chelsea and Liverpool? If they’re consistently losing money how long can they continue to maintain this?
I guess it’s not a ’business’ to these clubs, it’s a hobby. And the clubs who can afford this hobby have a chance of competing. For the rest of a premier league it a business, maybe.
Ben Howard
13 Posted 05/08/2009 at 10:31:47
13 Posted 05/08/2009 at 10:31:47
I’m really surprised you allowed this one Michael. It’s a deliberately inflammatory post that offers very little about football and nothing about Everton.
I’m sorry you had such a bad time there while they paid you handsomely and you lived tax-free Trevor.
I’m sorry you had such a bad time there while they paid you handsomely and you lived tax-free Trevor.
Ciarán McGlone
14 Posted 05/08/2009 at 10:35:14
14 Posted 05/08/2009 at 10:35:14
Football has never subscribed to a traditional business model... and it never will.
Suggesting that ’winning things is pointless’ — and that the aim should be to ’optimise profit by keeping overheads low whilst trying to stay in the Premier League’ ... is frankly just about the most depressing thing I’ve ever read on here.
Suggesting that ’winning things is pointless’ — and that the aim should be to ’optimise profit by keeping overheads low whilst trying to stay in the Premier League’ ... is frankly just about the most depressing thing I’ve ever read on here.
Matt Brown
15 Posted 05/08/2009 at 10:54:08
15 Posted 05/08/2009 at 10:54:08
So Trevor would you rather keep BK at the top and attract the likes of the two American kids and have contrat offers turned down by Champoinship players. Or have some wealthy middle east tycoons at the top throwing money into the club in a hope for a return on thier investment, attracting world class superstars like Rhobinio & Tevez etc...
I just don’t get people who who are so stuck in the dark ages when it comes to the future of this club. Yes we have a proud history but moving forward that could very easilly be wiped out from big investment into the teams around us, with them progressing and leaving us in the depths of mid table obscurity.
I just don’t get people who who are so stuck in the dark ages when it comes to the future of this club. Yes we have a proud history but moving forward that could very easilly be wiped out from big investment into the teams around us, with them progressing and leaving us in the depths of mid table obscurity.
Paul Wells
16 Posted 05/08/2009 at 11:05:52
16 Posted 05/08/2009 at 11:05:52
Quite right. I would sooner our club remain poor or have the eskimos as owners rather than to sell out to oil money.
You can gain the whole world but lose your own soul... and that is just what has happened at Man City.
Ciarán McGlone
17 Posted 05/08/2009 at 11:12:11
17 Posted 05/08/2009 at 11:12:11
I wish people would stop throwing emotive nonsense like ’losing our soul’ around..
FFS, we are slaves to Sky, Whores to sponsorship and wannabe marketing sluts...
We pay players 50k a week, are in bed with one of the most destructive commercial forces in the land, have bank loans coming out of our arses..and have a director who’s had two failed planet Hollywood ventures..
We are not coporate virgins being sacrificed at the altar or avaryce...we are simply shit at doing what others do very well..
Quit the ’selling our soul’ bollocks...it happened a very long time ago!
FFS, we are slaves to Sky, Whores to sponsorship and wannabe marketing sluts...
We pay players 50k a week, are in bed with one of the most destructive commercial forces in the land, have bank loans coming out of our arses..and have a director who’s had two failed planet Hollywood ventures..
We are not coporate virgins being sacrificed at the altar or avaryce...we are simply shit at doing what others do very well..
Quit the ’selling our soul’ bollocks...it happened a very long time ago!
Paul Wells
18 Posted 05/08/2009 at 13:18:00
18 Posted 05/08/2009 at 13:18:00
Very manichean Ciaran.
In the world of greys we’re in EFC is still an acceptable level of grey in the way it’s run, at least one that I can accept.
I don’t think I could if we were to slip into the black hole like mancity have done.
In the world of greys we’re in EFC is still an acceptable level of grey in the way it’s run, at least one that I can accept.
I don’t think I could if we were to slip into the black hole like mancity have done.
Ciarán McGlone
19 Posted 05/08/2009 at 13:30:02
19 Posted 05/08/2009 at 13:30:02
Ah,
Well as long as our corporate whore status is not as relatively fully fledged as others...
Ignoring the fact that we were one of the teams that started the whole thing!
Well as long as our corporate whore status is not as relatively fully fledged as others...
Ignoring the fact that we were one of the teams that started the whole thing!
Rob Heib
20 Posted 05/08/2009 at 13:44:26
20 Posted 05/08/2009 at 13:44:26
Andy Crooks: [[ Trevor, you describe these countries as "institutionally racist" yet go on to describe them as "countries without any real culture". Does that not strike you as being a slightly racist comment? ]]
It strikes me as about as "racist" as it would be to say there is more culture in London than Southampton ... not bloody racist at all. It’s a fact ... and a quite commonly accepted one. It’s a widely known they are spending billions on importing art in order to raise their cultural profile.
One could argue it’s more racist to assume any time you say anything remotely negative about a country that its based on race. There are negatives to every country in the world -- unless I just hate every race on the planet (including my own) ... which is possible.
It strikes me as about as "racist" as it would be to say there is more culture in London than Southampton ... not bloody racist at all. It’s a fact ... and a quite commonly accepted one. It’s a widely known they are spending billions on importing art in order to raise their cultural profile.
One could argue it’s more racist to assume any time you say anything remotely negative about a country that its based on race. There are negatives to every country in the world -- unless I just hate every race on the planet (including my own) ... which is possible.
Ciarán McGlone
21 Posted 05/08/2009 at 14:15:15
21 Posted 05/08/2009 at 14:15:15
’It’s a fact ... and a quite commonly accepted one.’
--------------------
No, that would be your opinion i’m afraid.
--------------------
No, that would be your opinion i’m afraid.
Paul Wells
22 Posted 05/08/2009 at 14:16:18
22 Posted 05/08/2009 at 14:16:18
Fundamentally Ciaran we really don’t like the same thing.
However I could pronounce John Moores without a lesson in elocution and he did sit just behind us in the directors’ box.
Problem is that our clubs are not corporate enough but the toys of the rich under corporate disguise.
No doubt you could write a dissertation on that?
However I could pronounce John Moores without a lesson in elocution and he did sit just behind us in the directors’ box.
Problem is that our clubs are not corporate enough but the toys of the rich under corporate disguise.
No doubt you could write a dissertation on that?
Ciarán McGlone
23 Posted 05/08/2009 at 14:27:40
23 Posted 05/08/2009 at 14:27:40
I didn’t say I liked it Paul...merely a simple acknowledgement that it exists..and that we are already fully part of it.
I don’t really need to write a dissertation to explain why people shouldn’t continue to ignore this fact, do I?
I don’t really need to write a dissertation to explain why people shouldn’t continue to ignore this fact, do I?
Geoff Edwards
24 Posted 05/08/2009 at 15:11:31
24 Posted 05/08/2009 at 15:11:31
"It strikes me as about as "racist" as it would be to say there is more culture in London than Southampton".
Spot on.
Regarding the whole "selling our soul" thing, I think we all want a rich investor coming in, but we don’t want to lose certain values (e.g. "People’s Club", "Class and Dignity") in the way that Man City have.
Spot on.
Regarding the whole "selling our soul" thing, I think we all want a rich investor coming in, but we don’t want to lose certain values (e.g. "People’s Club", "Class and Dignity") in the way that Man City have.
Geoff Edwards
25 Posted 05/08/2009 at 15:23:58
25 Posted 05/08/2009 at 15:23:58
Also, I’m pretty sure some of the people calling the OP racist have posted on here calling the RS manager a "fat spanish waiter", which is worse.
Keith Glazzard
26 Posted 05/08/2009 at 16:37:12
26 Posted 05/08/2009 at 16:37:12
Careful now. Beneathcontempt is fat and he is Spanish. And calling him a waiter is insulting to those people who work hard to earn an honest living.
Incidentally, has anyone noticed the resemblance between Tony Hibbert and Vladimir Putin?
Incidentally, has anyone noticed the resemblance between Tony Hibbert and Vladimir Putin?
Rob Heib
27 Posted 05/08/2009 at 17:14:47
27 Posted 05/08/2009 at 17:14:47
Ciarán McGlone [[ ’It’s a fact ... and a quite commonly accepted one.’
--------------------
No, that would be your opinion i’m afraid. ]]
Oh Ciaran you are postively addicted to disagreement aren’t you?
Very well. It is my "opinion." It is also the "opinion" of the Encyclopedia Brittanica and almost any other publication I have ever read discussing the culture of these areas. It is my "opinion" that religious restrictions on art stifled their culture and prevented the kind of intellectual diversity which has enabled culture to thrive in other areas of the world. It is my "opinion" that were they to have a significant cultural standing under such restrictions it would be a momumental acheivement and go against everything we know about what social conditions enable culture to flourish. It is my opinion that if it were a commonly accepted fact that their cultural development was equal to that of free countries there would be thousands of texts studying how it was possible.
It’s also the "opinion" of much of the rest of the middle east (whom often criticize these areas for importing too much Western culture) and the opinion of the people themselves (because they have made such an enormous state-backed effort to pay over the odds to improve their cultural standing in the world).
It is my opinion that the only people who would attempt to argue they aren’t in many ways lacking in culture are those whom don’t actually know anything about it and are trying to be PC in a very misguided way.
If you want to see great theatre do you go to London/New York or do you just fly to any random city in the world because every one has an equal amount of culture and it would be racist to suggest otherwise?
In my "opinion" its far more PC to suggest that cultural diversity and freedom of speech/religion allows for more sophisticated cutural development. But that’s just me and my crazy "opinions."
--------------------
No, that would be your opinion i’m afraid. ]]
Oh Ciaran you are postively addicted to disagreement aren’t you?
Very well. It is my "opinion." It is also the "opinion" of the Encyclopedia Brittanica and almost any other publication I have ever read discussing the culture of these areas. It is my "opinion" that religious restrictions on art stifled their culture and prevented the kind of intellectual diversity which has enabled culture to thrive in other areas of the world. It is my "opinion" that were they to have a significant cultural standing under such restrictions it would be a momumental acheivement and go against everything we know about what social conditions enable culture to flourish. It is my opinion that if it were a commonly accepted fact that their cultural development was equal to that of free countries there would be thousands of texts studying how it was possible.
It’s also the "opinion" of much of the rest of the middle east (whom often criticize these areas for importing too much Western culture) and the opinion of the people themselves (because they have made such an enormous state-backed effort to pay over the odds to improve their cultural standing in the world).
It is my opinion that the only people who would attempt to argue they aren’t in many ways lacking in culture are those whom don’t actually know anything about it and are trying to be PC in a very misguided way.
If you want to see great theatre do you go to London/New York or do you just fly to any random city in the world because every one has an equal amount of culture and it would be racist to suggest otherwise?
In my "opinion" its far more PC to suggest that cultural diversity and freedom of speech/religion allows for more sophisticated cutural development. But that’s just me and my crazy "opinions."
Andy Crooks
28 Posted 05/08/2009 at 17:41:07
28 Posted 05/08/2009 at 17:41:07
Rob and Geoff,if you define culture as the amount of art galleries ,opera houses ,theatres and arts council grants that any area has then ,yeah,London is more cultured than Southampton.However ,is the culture of a nation not the inherited beliefs,values and handed down knowledge and traditions? If that’s the case ,then to say that the Emirates don’t have it is just nonsense.
Honest,I’m not politically correct,especially when it comes to Benitez.
Honest,I’m not politically correct,especially when it comes to Benitez.
Geoff Edwards
29 Posted 05/08/2009 at 18:02:13
29 Posted 05/08/2009 at 18:02:13
Andy, fair play, I was using the first definition. I took the idea that all nations have the culture under the 2nd definition to be implicit.
John Brennan
30 Posted 05/08/2009 at 19:26:37
30 Posted 05/08/2009 at 19:26:37
Keith, ref your comment about Putin.
Also, has anyone noticed the similarity between House and Phil Brown? Also, for those who are politically astute, Alan Hansen and that Tory MP ( a woman) who was a minister in the last Tory government, oh god, who was she???? I think her husband was also a Tory MP--- anyway, Bob Latchford for our next chairman.
Also, has anyone noticed the similarity between House and Phil Brown? Also, for those who are politically astute, Alan Hansen and that Tory MP ( a woman) who was a minister in the last Tory government, oh god, who was she???? I think her husband was also a Tory MP--- anyway, Bob Latchford for our next chairman.
Jay Woods
31 Posted 05/08/2009 at 23:05:41
31 Posted 05/08/2009 at 23:05:41
Well, my dad’s a lifelong City fan and he is over the blue moon at what’s happening there. For the first time in decades he has hope that City could actually win something. The whole business of being a fan has taken on a whole new lease of life for him.
All this talk of "losing the club’s soul" is unadulterated nonsense. If people are such purists, then why don’t they go and form "FC Everton of Liverpool" or something?
The fact is, the established top clubs are where they are through massive fanbases, in turn brought about by being the first to succeed in certain areas. For instance, Man Utd were the first English club to win the EC and thereby massively raised their profile at home and abroad. So much so that even after 4 European Cup wins, Liverpool still hadn’t caught up with them in terms of global fanbase by the turn of the century. It’s been a bit like the giant that is Pepsi trying to catch the original bigger giant that is Coca Cola. The only way anyone else can ever truly aspire to reach those levels is through a massive alternative source of funding, since it is physically impossible to outgun the top clubs from revenues generated by fanbases. And since all is fair in love and war... well, I rest my case.
All this talk of "losing the club’s soul" is unadulterated nonsense. If people are such purists, then why don’t they go and form "FC Everton of Liverpool" or something?
The fact is, the established top clubs are where they are through massive fanbases, in turn brought about by being the first to succeed in certain areas. For instance, Man Utd were the first English club to win the EC and thereby massively raised their profile at home and abroad. So much so that even after 4 European Cup wins, Liverpool still hadn’t caught up with them in terms of global fanbase by the turn of the century. It’s been a bit like the giant that is Pepsi trying to catch the original bigger giant that is Coca Cola. The only way anyone else can ever truly aspire to reach those levels is through a massive alternative source of funding, since it is physically impossible to outgun the top clubs from revenues generated by fanbases. And since all is fair in love and war... well, I rest my case.
Ciarán McGlone
32 Posted 06/08/2009 at 07:34:57
32 Posted 06/08/2009 at 07:34:57
Rob,
I’m addicted to highlighting rubbish..suggesting that Kuwait is ’without any real culture’...is not, by any stretch of the imagination.....a fact.
FFS, the occupation of the place dates beyond Alexander the great and the ancient Greeks.
P.S Please don’t use the phrase ’PC’..its a ridiculous short cut past thinking.
I’m addicted to highlighting rubbish..suggesting that Kuwait is ’without any real culture’...is not, by any stretch of the imagination.....a fact.
FFS, the occupation of the place dates beyond Alexander the great and the ancient Greeks.
P.S Please don’t use the phrase ’PC’..its a ridiculous short cut past thinking.
Andy Baker
33 Posted 06/08/2009 at 11:04:39
33 Posted 06/08/2009 at 11:04:39
Come on, Trevor — stop talking shite.
I assume you didn't work for free out there? No? Well if the ’cultureless’ money will do for you, it’ll do for me.
Everton will never win the league or get close with BK in charge and I'm sorry to tell you all this but 5th is absolutely nowhere. Neither is getting spanked in a final.
We need to spend big to have a chance of success and without money there is only one way we can realistically go.
What I want to know is why everyone assumes a new chairman with loads of money would be an evil, ruthless person who doesn't understand Everton?
Can I remind you all that it is Saint Bill Kenwright who grew up in the Boys Pen that wants to take us from good ol’ crumbling Goodison — and that little church in the corner — to lifeless, soulless arse dump in Kirkby, because he hasn't got the funds for there to be any choice. Everyone seems to have forgotten that.
Who is to say that a new chairman with enough money to have a choice, whether it be redevelop GP or build a new stadium in Liverpool, would not turn round and say, "You know what, relocating to the cowshed in Kirkby is a shit idea... let's modernise Goodison and throw another tier on the Park End."
It just baffles me how BK has got so many of you fooled into thinking he is so magical and wonderful that anyone else would just destroy Everton. BK will do that all on his own within 5 years anyway IMO.
Once Moyes’s contract runs down or a top job becomes available, we can say goodbye to Moyes — why should he continue to produce miracles without any financial support? BK could not get any manager to come in and do what Moyes has done, he is a complete one-off.
I assume you didn't work for free out there? No? Well if the ’cultureless’ money will do for you, it’ll do for me.
Everton will never win the league or get close with BK in charge and I'm sorry to tell you all this but 5th is absolutely nowhere. Neither is getting spanked in a final.
We need to spend big to have a chance of success and without money there is only one way we can realistically go.
What I want to know is why everyone assumes a new chairman with loads of money would be an evil, ruthless person who doesn't understand Everton?
Can I remind you all that it is Saint Bill Kenwright who grew up in the Boys Pen that wants to take us from good ol’ crumbling Goodison — and that little church in the corner — to lifeless, soulless arse dump in Kirkby, because he hasn't got the funds for there to be any choice. Everyone seems to have forgotten that.
Who is to say that a new chairman with enough money to have a choice, whether it be redevelop GP or build a new stadium in Liverpool, would not turn round and say, "You know what, relocating to the cowshed in Kirkby is a shit idea... let's modernise Goodison and throw another tier on the Park End."
It just baffles me how BK has got so many of you fooled into thinking he is so magical and wonderful that anyone else would just destroy Everton. BK will do that all on his own within 5 years anyway IMO.
Once Moyes’s contract runs down or a top job becomes available, we can say goodbye to Moyes — why should he continue to produce miracles without any financial support? BK could not get any manager to come in and do what Moyes has done, he is a complete one-off.
Rob Heib
34 Posted 06/08/2009 at 15:56:08
34 Posted 06/08/2009 at 15:56:08
Ciaran,
LOL. We’re either using two very different definitions of culture (as Geoff pointed out, the definition of culture which Andy Crooks mentioned, and which you seem to be as well, is not what we’re talking about and anyone with a basic understanding on context would realize that) or you haven’t the slightest idea what you’re talking about.
If longterm occupation in one area = culture then wouldn’t Africa be the renowned center of world culture?
Anyway, end of thread for me ... bye.
P.S. PC PC PC PC PC.
LOL. We’re either using two very different definitions of culture (as Geoff pointed out, the definition of culture which Andy Crooks mentioned, and which you seem to be as well, is not what we’re talking about and anyone with a basic understanding on context would realize that) or you haven’t the slightest idea what you’re talking about.
If longterm occupation in one area = culture then wouldn’t Africa be the renowned center of world culture?
Anyway, end of thread for me ... bye.
P.S. PC PC PC PC PC.
Andy Crooks
35 Posted 06/08/2009 at 19:41:13
35 Posted 06/08/2009 at 19:41:13
Well,who’d have thought a Toffeeweb debate on the definition of culture.Thefact is ,though,if we want an investor we really do need to get off the moral high ground.Let’s face it,with the state of the world today,anyone prepared to invest a £billion in a football club as a plaything is not going to meet the stringent moral requirements that some Evertonians seem to deem necessary.
I can understand the stance taken by some supporters who would rather see us in league one than "sell our soul",in fact ,in a way I respect that view.However,I’d rather see us in the champions league.Fundamentally we all have different views on what is best for the club,Mine is that we should strive to be the best and that ,like it or not,means taking what we can get,
I can understand the stance taken by some supporters who would rather see us in league one than "sell our soul",in fact ,in a way I respect that view.However,I’d rather see us in the champions league.Fundamentally we all have different views on what is best for the club,Mine is that we should strive to be the best and that ,like it or not,means taking what we can get,
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1 Posted 05/08/2009 at 01:01:31
In addition to the points you make, I know more than a few Chelsea fans with twitching bumholes every time they see Abramovich frowning on the telly.
Do we want an existence like that for success? Success, I may add, that is not certainly guaranteed.
If we’d sell ourselves out like that just for glory, how different would we be to the plastic redshites?