I agree: Mark Hughes is rapidlly self-distructing; his personal integritry decimated! A once sound guy, turned cunt. Did he really play for us, once?

Well, it kinda depends on how you define ’big’ and what your view on the meaning and relevance of ’history’ is, doesn’t it, Gary? If money, media interest and profile, desirability from a player point of view, projected PL finish (etc.) in the here and now define where you are on the small to big club continuum, then MC are a ’bigger’ club than us right now and will remain so for the foreseeable future, aren’t and won’t they?

As for history, once upon a time the sun never set on the British Empire too, but at least from the perspective of yer average concentration span the size of a knat teenager (i.e. the future, supporter-wise, of our club) our history is what happened yesterday.

For mine, David Moyes made a terrible mistake in not cashing in on Lescott and then compounding the error by saying he wouldn’t sell on a matter of principle. Why hang on to a player who wants out when you can replace him with someone who’s at least passable — like that fella at Newcastle or Turner of Hull (who, by the way, excelled against Drogba and Anelka yesterday in a team that actually had a go) for what, a third of the price — and who actually wants to be here. And if we now turn around and ship Lescott out, Moyes will lose all credibilty as far as telling us about his principles.

Big is as big does, as Forrest Gump may not have said.

1-6 that puts us in perspective as a ratio to the Gunners bigness.

Marshy said that a five-goal spanking MAY spark a reaction... well it could but I doubt it... watch this space, yeah right.

6-1 at home may suggest otherwise, Gary.

As far as I am aware, we have had two bids for Lescott, the latter being for £18m. That is not enough, in my opinion. Moyes made a comment yesterday about City paying Villa £1m for every month left on Barry’s contract, and I am sure if City bid £25m or over, his stance would change.

The comments made about our lack of decent pre-season games are spot on, and make more sense than the whole ’disrupted’ theory to me.

If you actually watch the interview with Hughes he never actually says ’big club’. It has been reported as that but he never actually said it. Probably been reported by a City fan at some point who thought he’d slip that in.

I believe Moyes’s stance in this is admirable but Lescott is not worth £20m. If he is, we have a £50m centre-half to come back in in the form of Jags.

Apparently Lescott has broken ranks with his usual agent and is speaking to all sorts of people who have promsed to engineer his move away. Agents want to get their cut and if it isn’t his usual agent, he’ll have no real regard for how Lescott is percieved by the press/players/Everton etc... He’ll just want his cut.

Thinking about it, though, can you blame him? Leave wages aside as that is an obvious motivator for the move, but look at the club. We ’over-performed’ again on a budget to get to 5th and a Cup Final; Moyes thanks the team and starts planning for next season. The lads return and he and Bullshit Bill have released our full-back cover and brought nobody in. Moyes says he is trying to better the squad with people who cost nothing, are the right age, and don’t want big wages — tough remit Moysie.

When he signed his new contract last sesaon he was clealy looking at going, the golden handshake obviously came with agreements from both sides. Moyes wasn’t to moan about cash to the press and put Bullshit Bill in a tricky position with the fans... and Moyes didn’t have much cash but would not be made to sell any of his players had big bids come in.

I believe Kenwright would sell him tomorrow, but Moyes is standing his ground as he knows he won’t get the deals/players in he would like with the cash. A £15m midfielder commands £15m pound midfielder's wages. Unless you get someone like Fellaini in who clearly isn’t worth £15m!

So Lescott must be thinking, "We can’t push on from here with the club being run like it is, so I want to go and try to better myself, regardless of cash."

The players who ’over-performed’ must be thinking, "Well, here we go again, let's see if we can over-achieve again and get the results/cash in so we can build. Just hang on a min, did we build on last year?" Players' answer:- "No, we did well, released a few players and then listened to the same old story about looking for investment 24/7."

Good luck Joey, I hope your dreams come true... I wonder if they’ll come in for me???

I have read the quote by Mark Hughes and also listened to the audio interview. At no point does he say "Big Club". What he does say is "It's always difficult when clubs want to buy your best players" or words to that effect. The BBC have either edited his audio for their text interview to make it sound worse than it does or they are using quotes from other sources because he doesn't say that on their interview with them.

Sorry, but Money DOES = Big

This is modern EPL Capitalised football.

Also, why would Lescott want to go to City? Look at yesterdays results and which club looks in better shape for success?

And again, City are trying to buy a player.

It's bizarre, maybe Everton do show respect in the transfer market, thus buying NO players whatsoever.

I just hope we get the £20-odd million and use it to improve the team.

Look at Lescott’s performance yesterday, 3 months of that and we wont be able to give him away. Sell him quickly, not on the 31st.

Also, stop taking everything so personal.

The player simply does not want to play for Everton. His heart is no longer in it. What’s the point in keeping him? I’d rather have Rodwell or Neville there than a player who simply does not want to play for us. Soon as Moyes swallows his pride the better - move him on ond get a couple in. QUICKLY.

Yes, Hughes is an arrogant shite. He always was. That said, as Paul Wilson in the Observer reminds us: some battles are worth fighting. Some are not. For the good of the love of the club Moyes has to swallow his pride, get what he can and sort out this shambles.

I don’t think Lescott in particular let anyone down yesterday. Whether the goings on affected the rest of the back line is anyone’s guess (in a way i hope it is that!).

The thing that has come out of this is that Moyes is a pan and he is passionate. What did the vast majority of us say when City came calling - tell them to get stuffed, we don’t want to sell, they can’t take our best players. Yes, most of us did say that. And, if we’d have sold we would have critisiced the club for cashing in, lacking ambition etc etc. Well, Moyes is in the position to tell them to get stuffed and Bill has backed him in this.

Now, we may reconsider and say ok, we’ll get a fair price and we can move on, but let’s not criticise Moyes for basically doing what we’d all wanted to do just that he has been in a position to actually do it.

I don’t care about City. I hope it all goes pear shaped and i don’t like the way they now appear a bunch of nouveau riche prats. I hate they way they now act (and it’s not jealousy, there is a way of dealing and acting and they have chosen not to act in a good way).

I care about EFC and if us moving forward means accepting a £20m bid for Lescott and moving on then so be it. It’s not that much different from Man Utd losing Ronaldo. They will move on and have made a tidy sum in the process, and so should we.

I don’t remember Mark Hughes playing for us Martin, he did wear an Everton shirt for a while, presumably as a fashion statement...

Hughes is a gormless prick. He’ll get the bullet eventually, so that at least is some consolation. Bitter? Oh no....

Lescott MUST be sold. His head is up his arse and although he wasn’t directly at fault for our demolition, he also didn’t look too bothered by it. ( the same could be said for a few others but sadly they’re not likely to fetch silly money )

Get rid, spend the money on the Hull lad, and address the ride side of our team before we are truly in the shit. ( i.e EVERY team will know it’s our achilles heel and exploit it )

Let's see how arrogant Hughes is when he is on the dole by Christmas.

Anthony,

I disagree entirely with Wilson’s article - this is no longer about money, this is about principle and the way City have done business in this case.

Lescott has blatantly been tapped up, which unless I am much mistaken is still against FA rules. Moreover, because they have tapped him up they think that they can offer less money than we would have been willing to take for him, have deliberately failed to contact our manager about selling him, and have leaked much of the proceedings to the press. In short, they have behaved like an absolute shower and have recieved precisely zero sanction for doing so (just as they will manage to escape penalties for everything else they do thats against the laws of the FA).

Now we see one of the most abject Everton performances of all time as the (partial) result of it, and Lescott apparently telling Moyes that he isnt in the right frame of mind before the game starts. Is Moyes, as some would suggest here, suddenly meant to give up and take their second bid (note there hasnt been a third one as of yet) as a result? What happens when they do the same thing to Jags? Or Arteta?

It's easy to get annoyed by Mark Hughes’s statements about our club, but let's face facts — he will be sacked before Christmas and end up managing a Second Division team. At that point, he can stick his 'big club' jibes up his arse; reap what you sow, Mr Hughes, you big time Charlie boy....

It’s been more than 48 hours since Moyes said we’d have signings in the "next 48 hours" and all he is saying now is that he’ll have to make the best of what he’s already got. Kenwright out.

Who is offering Kenwright money so he can ’get out’?

Jonathan, I could not agree more with much of what you say : Hughes has behaved like the shite he is and he shouldn’t get away with it. I for one did support Moyes’s stance but if it is affecting the defence as it clearly has, then it needs freshening up.

Where perhaps we differ is on the question of principle; principles can take us so far but there are times when you have to be pragmatic and this is one of them. Let's get shut, get the best price we can, and bring in some fresh blood.

I agree with much of what has been said, but the fact remains that City have money and we don’t. We have a player who realistically does not want to play for us, but has a value greater than his true worth. Is it better to cash in and go to plan B or give Lescott enough brooding time to get over it and hope City have nothing to offer in January!

I like plan B because then we might just be able to improve the squad given time enough to do it. Clubs with money will always get the players they want, I think DM’s resolve could in this instance be a negative. A Lescott with his head in the clouds ain’t worth a seat on the bench, never mind a place on the pitch.

Good managers sometimes have to expect a curved ball that scuppers their plans. DM has one, but I am not sure he is handling it for the best yet and time is against us. Actions are required.

I think Moyes has handled this superbly all that remains is for him to hold his nerve now. Hughes now knows he’ll have to deal directly with Moyes but will be hoping that Moyes position is undermined by the Saturday’s result. I posted on another thread yesterday that I fully expected the media will be looking to heap pressure on Moyes alas I also mentioned that our own fans will also be used as a weapon against Moyes. Sadly that appears to be coming to pass. Tomorrow’s headlines are reading that Moyes should swallow his pride and accept the £22m on offer and now some of our own fans are agreeing that £22m is more than Lescott is worth and Moyes should sell at this price.

There is only one problem with this of course and that is that City havn’t come close to offering that kind of figure. Indeed it’s the same tabloids and fans in some cases who were saying only a few weeks ago we should accept £15m. So if one assumes that £22m actually is on offer it would appear that Moyes stance to date has gained us an extra £7m in the last few weeks, not a bad piece of business that, of course its all conjecture. I trust Moyes to do the right thing and I’ve never doubted he’d be prepared to do a deal but on his terms and I think he’s left Hughes in no doubt about that. Moyes is not the fool some are suggesting. What he now needs more than anything is for the fans to trust him on this. I certainly believe he will ultimately make the decision that is in the best interests of the club.

Is all of this (the Lescott issue) what it seems? The tactic of ’demonising’ one particular party normally suggests that its a strategy to deflect attention, in order to apease. Certain questions (unanswered sof ar) are raised? Who exactly within a football club whether it's Everton or someone else, has the final say in transfers? Is it the manager (DM in this case) or is it the money men?

Me thinks he who pays the piper calls the tune. DM says he does. Do the real issues in this sorry saga rest between DM and the powers that be? It would seem despite some reluctant ’window dressing PR’ the Board want the Cash, but at the same time want to publicly suppport and back DM. It seems that this where the real issue is (or should I say "was".. rumours reaching me suggest a withdrawl of the City bid)??

While I’m still annoyed with Mark Hughes, I would like to apologise for the foul language I used when slating him above. I suppose a 6-1 defeat can leave you feeling bitter and twisted, especially when you’ve been drowning your sorrows. However, I should have kept my criticism dignified and once again apologise for the manner of my my remarks. Let’s move on and get a good result on Thursday.

Please sell JL. He is someone who has no heart nor passion for Everton.

Has anyone else noticed the similarity between Mark Hughes and George W Bush?

Enough said.

Mark Hughes is probably realising that he only has this season to come up with results & European football. EFC are therefore suffering for his desperation to build a side (and quick), we should simply say go forth and multiply & stick Lescott in the reserves until he feels read to apply himself.

We cannot allow City to ruin our morale & focus (they clearly have after Saturday's result). Bring in Senderos & leave Lescott in the shit — at least we can get the satisfaction of fucking City & Lescott !!

What i’ve just said probably really doesn’t make sense, however, it makes me feel better for saying it!!!

If the amount of money you have makes you a big club then I guess that makes Man City the biggest club in the world. I can think of at least 10 clubs I’d consider bigger than City. Also City seem incapable, even with all their mega millions to capture the signatures of truly, real world class players (maybe with the exception of Robinho). Kaka, Messi, Ronaldo, Eto’o were all reported to have knocked back a move to City. So in my opinion money can help you become a big club but I think City are far from it at the moment, they are just an average club (until they achieve something) who pays big wages.

Watch Hughes in interviews and tell me he isn’t full of arrogance. Prick — completely and to his core. Compare that with Moyes. Straight-forward and down to Earth. Regular guy with a job to do. No pretenses. I know who I’d rather have at the helm.

Hughes is just an arrogant prick.

What bothers me is that I can see Mercenary City waking up to the fact that what they really need is a decent manager. They sack Hughes and go for Moyes (6-1 aside he’s not that bad really - compared to that crag-faced arrongant prick)... guess who ends up with said prick!! How happy would we all be then?

I would hate it if that happens, but anything seems possible nowadays.

I used to love football...

I don’t know anymore, Football Manager says it makes sense.