The Mail Bag
Name the Guilty Men
Comments (14)
There would be some consolation to watching our abject humiliation on Saturday if it was even remotely likely that we as a team would learn anything from the football lesson handed out by a less experienced but much more talented Arsenal.
The sad fact is that nothing — nothing — is likely to change as a result of this complete demolition. The same players are likely to play the same tactics in the same positions next time out and all season and with the same lame excuses and platitudes if things go wrong.
If it were up to me, Baines, Neville, Hibbert and Osman would be dropped in favor of younger players, like Rodwell Gosling, Baxter and Vaughan, likely to show greater effort and commitment. They could hardly demonstrate less aptitude.
Moreover, Cahill plays too deep. He needs to come forward where he is more effective. It is time to drop the well worn 4-5-1 approach, which others teams no by now how to handle, in favor of two up front. It is unfair to Jo to use him as a lone striker, pumping up long aimless balls in the forlorn hope one will fall just right for him off Fellaini's head. But David Moyes changing tactics is about as likely as Everton packing up and moving to... wait a minute...
Peter Fearon, Posted 17/08/2009 at 18:42:25
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Stephen Vinue
2 Posted 18/08/2009 at 00:49:55
2 Posted 18/08/2009 at 00:49:55
I agree Lyndon, why not make these changes for Thursday? After all, if we go out of Europe so what? We do not have a big enough squad to handle these games. Sure I would like us to do well in Europe but not at the expense of league position. Thursday would be a great opportunity to give this system a chance.
Tony Rice
3 Posted 18/08/2009 at 01:00:23
3 Posted 18/08/2009 at 01:00:23
I realise, given the current transfer saga and injuries, that his place is cemented... but I am suprised how Yobo seems to have avoided much comment about his play on Saturday.
I thought he was terrible! His marking on those goals was shocking. I think he needs to play... but I agree with the concept of shaking the line-up up.
I thought he was terrible! His marking on those goals was shocking. I think he needs to play... but I agree with the concept of shaking the line-up up.
Ian Tunstead
4 Posted 18/08/2009 at 01:01:01
4 Posted 18/08/2009 at 01:01:01
We havn’t become a bad team over night, those players are the same players that took us to 5th place.
Arsenal have been underastimated by all the know alls and wrote off before the season had begun by many in the media. Wenger has been heavily criticised for not going out and spending big money on world beaters. The fact is Wenger knows his players better than anyone, and he will not give in to media pressure.
Why should he go out and spend big money on a top player when he may already have one in the form of one or many of his young talented players such as Wilkshire, Ramsey, Denilson or Song, one of these players my have similar potential to Fabragas for all we know.
Arsenal and Wenger were humiliated by Man Utd in the Champions league semi final but this was just 1 game, and 1 game with many of their top players out injured.
They had as bad an injury record as ourselves but the difference between now and then is our injured players have still not returned and we have not made additions. Their equivilant of Arteta, Fabragas has returned in fine form and they have made a big money signing at the back.
The Arsenal Everton game was also just 1 game, it was a freak result, and i believe we are going to see just what a great side Arsenal have become and perhaps 6-1 might not be so bad when we look back at the end of the season.
Arsenal have been underastimated by all the know alls and wrote off before the season had begun by many in the media. Wenger has been heavily criticised for not going out and spending big money on world beaters. The fact is Wenger knows his players better than anyone, and he will not give in to media pressure.
Why should he go out and spend big money on a top player when he may already have one in the form of one or many of his young talented players such as Wilkshire, Ramsey, Denilson or Song, one of these players my have similar potential to Fabragas for all we know.
Arsenal and Wenger were humiliated by Man Utd in the Champions league semi final but this was just 1 game, and 1 game with many of their top players out injured.
They had as bad an injury record as ourselves but the difference between now and then is our injured players have still not returned and we have not made additions. Their equivilant of Arteta, Fabragas has returned in fine form and they have made a big money signing at the back.
The Arsenal Everton game was also just 1 game, it was a freak result, and i believe we are going to see just what a great side Arsenal have become and perhaps 6-1 might not be so bad when we look back at the end of the season.
Dan Brierley
5 Posted 18/08/2009 at 01:53:27
5 Posted 18/08/2009 at 01:53:27
I do agree, it was a freak result. I don’t believe at all this can be taken as a marker for how the rest of the season will pan out. However, nobody can really measure how much the Lescott saga has been a factor of influence. The ’band of brothers’ mentality has been the rock of our performances for a long time. Our team spirit was lauded by many to be the greatest in the land. It particularly struck me when Jags said ’you ask yourself, what would I do in that situation?’. The players themselves will be only too aware of the 5th place glass ceiling.
But as for the mass exodus predicted by many, I can’t see it. I think only Arteta has the possibility to look comfortable in a top CL team. And I say possibility, as even he seems to go missing in the big games. I think any other player we have would soon get found out in a top side that has to perform consistently against teams twice per week in domestic and European competitions. This includes Lescott in my opinion. His knack of scoring goals has compensated for his defensive frailties.
As for going forward, this team has already reached it’s potential I think. Without serious investment into all aspects of EFC (Stadium, Merchandise, Playing Staff etc.) then we cannot expect to go any further. The only other hope is that our youth manages to provide some serious talent capable of improving our first 11. It seems the only way to go forward is to sell your soul to an investment group being run purely for profit, and not for the love of the game itself. The idea of our club being part of somebody’s portfolio seems to devalue our tradition and history. The mere thought of some strange market fluctuation meaning you have to sell some players to subsidise other parts of the investment group is worrying to say the least.
But as for the mass exodus predicted by many, I can’t see it. I think only Arteta has the possibility to look comfortable in a top CL team. And I say possibility, as even he seems to go missing in the big games. I think any other player we have would soon get found out in a top side that has to perform consistently against teams twice per week in domestic and European competitions. This includes Lescott in my opinion. His knack of scoring goals has compensated for his defensive frailties.
As for going forward, this team has already reached it’s potential I think. Without serious investment into all aspects of EFC (Stadium, Merchandise, Playing Staff etc.) then we cannot expect to go any further. The only other hope is that our youth manages to provide some serious talent capable of improving our first 11. It seems the only way to go forward is to sell your soul to an investment group being run purely for profit, and not for the love of the game itself. The idea of our club being part of somebody’s portfolio seems to devalue our tradition and history. The mere thought of some strange market fluctuation meaning you have to sell some players to subsidise other parts of the investment group is worrying to say the least.
Jimmy Saville
6 Posted 18/08/2009 at 06:42:05
6 Posted 18/08/2009 at 06:42:05
How about having a lone striker and playing both Cahill and Fellaini off the striker. Everyone syas that Cahill is being played out of position and that Fellaini plays best off the striker. Best form of defence: attack, attack, attack. Role on a nose bleed from the manager!
Kevin Sparke
7 Posted 18/08/2009 at 06:46:29
7 Posted 18/08/2009 at 06:46:29
One thing that not many have mentioned yet is that Arsenal were absolutely magnificent. Sure, we allowed them to be but you had the feeling they were in second gear for much of the game.
My one wish is to see an Everton team play football that way again - I’ve a feeling I’ll not see it for a while
My one wish is to see an Everton team play football that way again - I’ve a feeling I’ll not see it for a while
Paul Gladwell
8 Posted 18/08/2009 at 07:45:40
8 Posted 18/08/2009 at 07:45:40
That's great that, after one bad 90 minutes which was mainly due to the whole club being in a suicidal state over one overated defender means Baines, one of our best players, should be dropped for some inexperienced kid we know sod all about.
Saegaran Kanalanadan
9 Posted 18/08/2009 at 07:56:14
9 Posted 18/08/2009 at 07:56:14
Howard
Nev, Yo, JL, Baines
Rodwell
Gosling, Fella, Pienaar
Cahill
Saha
This is how I’d play with the current form. Cahill has been used out of position. I believe he’s playing too deep in MF instead of up front as an attacking MF. Fella can hold the ball and can pass quite well so he sits behind the fowards. Gosling and Pienaar on the flanks. Rodwell as sweeper in front of the back 4. Hibbert and Osman dropped to the bench till they discover some sort of form.
Nev, Yo, JL, Baines
Rodwell
Gosling, Fella, Pienaar
Cahill
Saha
This is how I’d play with the current form. Cahill has been used out of position. I believe he’s playing too deep in MF instead of up front as an attacking MF. Fella can hold the ball and can pass quite well so he sits behind the fowards. Gosling and Pienaar on the flanks. Rodwell as sweeper in front of the back 4. Hibbert and Osman dropped to the bench till they discover some sort of form.
Saegaran Kanalanadan
10 Posted 18/08/2009 at 08:04:24
10 Posted 18/08/2009 at 08:04:24
....and keep the ball on the deck! We played so well like that last season.
Ciarán McGlone
11 Posted 18/08/2009 at 09:02:54
11 Posted 18/08/2009 at 09:02:54
Drop Baines?
For one mistake?
Catch a grip.
For one mistake?
Catch a grip.
Duncan McDine
12 Posted 18/08/2009 at 09:42:37
12 Posted 18/08/2009 at 09:42:37
At the moment its pretty clear to see that Hibbo should be dropped and let Neville move into RB, allowing our only fit central midfielder with any class to step up... Jack Rodwell. I agree that Osman has been poor for a long time now, but Gosling isn’t any better at the moment.
I hoped that we’d see this line-up on Saturday, but like the rest of you, knew deep down that Moysey wouldn’t drop Hibbert. Why he’s such a managers little pet I’ll never know.
I hoped that we’d see this line-up on Saturday, but like the rest of you, knew deep down that Moysey wouldn’t drop Hibbert. Why he’s such a managers little pet I’ll never know.
Anthony Hawkins
13 Posted 18/08/2009 at 12:50:28
13 Posted 18/08/2009 at 12:50:28
Baines wasn’t the weakest link on Saturday - it was the right side where the trouble was. Most of Arsenals attacks came from the right which is where Hibbert, Osman and Yobo were.
Whilst not ruling out the midfield completely, it was these three players who significantly under played.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again - we need AT LEAST a new rightback and right winger. If we get these two the team will be more balanced and the centre of midfield will be able to do it’s job better.
Yobo was dire against Arsenal, failing to track his player a number of times. The header was definitely his fault as he should have followed the runner. Lescott wasn’t completely blameless but you could see his expression on a number of occassions when he had his man and saw another runner going in. It was like "OMG why hasn’t someone got him!!??"
Onto the midfield: Where were they? A few chances were created but the Arsenal midfield completely over-ran them. I don’t know if it was because they were sitting too far back?
Jo - it’s difficult to fault a player who doesn’t get any service. May be he should have scored at least the one shot??
Whilst not ruling out the midfield completely, it was these three players who significantly under played.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again - we need AT LEAST a new rightback and right winger. If we get these two the team will be more balanced and the centre of midfield will be able to do it’s job better.
Yobo was dire against Arsenal, failing to track his player a number of times. The header was definitely his fault as he should have followed the runner. Lescott wasn’t completely blameless but you could see his expression on a number of occassions when he had his man and saw another runner going in. It was like "OMG why hasn’t someone got him!!??"
Onto the midfield: Where were they? A few chances were created but the Arsenal midfield completely over-ran them. I don’t know if it was because they were sitting too far back?
Jo - it’s difficult to fault a player who doesn’t get any service. May be he should have scored at least the one shot??
Peter Fearon
14 Posted 18/08/2009 at 14:08:08
14 Posted 18/08/2009 at 14:08:08
I am not suggesting Baines should be dropped for one mistake. He was personally responsible for three of the goals and was outclassed for 90 full minutes. But I wouldn’t worry. My whole point is that none of those players most directly responsible for one of the most shameful defeats in our history will be held accountable. The problem with Neville, Hibbert, Baines and Osman is that they are mediocrities whose like can be found in any lower third of the table club. We need better if we are to push ahead.
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Editorial Team
1 Posted 18/08/2009 at 00:31:11
But that does not mean he is immune from criticism — far from it — and you hit the nail on the head here, Peter. Very little will change, and if it does the improved football will be sporadic.
I don’t agree regarding Baines (he was poor on Saturday but in tandem with Pienaar he was a key ingredient in the success of last season) but if it were up to me, Neville would be shoved to right back where he belongs and Rodwell given his place in central midfield.
I’d play Gosling or Baxter instead of Osman on the right, Fellaini in central midfield and Cahill behind Saha. I too would like to see us try two strikers up front but wonder if we have the midfield for it. Anything is worth a try at this point, though, if you ask me.