The Mail Bag
White flag raised already!
Comments (31)
Please can someone cheer Moyes up, why after just one game is he contemplating relegation?
I live in East Anglia and the people round here rate Moyes, but they also say he is always talking us down, expecting defeat or a draw, and never talking us up, or being positive.
Here are his comments:
Moyes: Survival is key David Moyes has admitted that survival is now key to Everton's season after their 6-1 drubbing by Arsenal.
The Toffees finished fifth in the Premier League last season but looked a shadow of that side on Saturday.
The Toffees boss told the Liverpool Echo: "They have got to make sure that they achieve enough to do what they are good at — that's to make sure we are in the division
Depressing stuff, pass me a valium.
Andrew McGreavy, Posted 17/08/2009 at 19:45:52
Comments
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
Matt Traynor
1 Posted 18/08/2009 at 04:22:01
1 Posted 18/08/2009 at 04:22:01
I also was gobsmacked when I read that quote. Talk about managing expectations! Exactly who was that aimed at? The fans? The players (why do you want to leave Joleon?) The board?
Why say anything like that to the fucking media at all - it’s not as if we (and him I might add) are not already a laughing stock after Saturday.
Why say anything like that to the fucking media at all - it’s not as if we (and him I might add) are not already a laughing stock after Saturday.
Michael Evans
2 Posted 18/08/2009 at 08:09:56
2 Posted 18/08/2009 at 08:09:56
Glad other people feel the same.
Just a thought — anybody ever thought that deep within DM there is an inferiority complex which manifests itself with a "safety first" approach at crucial moments in games/seasons?
I have always thought that football is won and lost in players’ minds. If as a manager, you get them thinking that they will win more often than not, they do. Instill fear and apprehension about the opposition, then you lose. Basic psychology.
Does DM have that winning mentality and swagger of a "special one" or SAF ?
As Michael Kenrick beautifully put it - give me strength!!
Just a thought — anybody ever thought that deep within DM there is an inferiority complex which manifests itself with a "safety first" approach at crucial moments in games/seasons?
I have always thought that football is won and lost in players’ minds. If as a manager, you get them thinking that they will win more often than not, they do. Instill fear and apprehension about the opposition, then you lose. Basic psychology.
Does DM have that winning mentality and swagger of a "special one" or SAF ?
As Michael Kenrick beautifully put it - give me strength!!
Peter Griffin
3 Posted 18/08/2009 at 08:42:53
3 Posted 18/08/2009 at 08:42:53
I think Kenwright is starting to rub off on Moyes as every time he opens his mouth now it’s to put his foot in it.
He’s making all the right noises to potential signings:
"that’s to make sure we are in the division"
"loans and bosmans"
"cheap players on low wages"
His negativity on the pitch is reflected off it.
He’s making all the right noises to potential signings:
"that’s to make sure we are in the division"
"loans and bosmans"
"cheap players on low wages"
His negativity on the pitch is reflected off it.
Mark Pendleton
4 Posted 18/08/2009 at 08:55:13
4 Posted 18/08/2009 at 08:55:13
He says the same every year - priority to get enough points asap to ensure we stay in the division then push on from there. People only jumping on it because of the first result.
Alan Clarke
5 Posted 18/08/2009 at 08:52:31
5 Posted 18/08/2009 at 08:52:31
I think Moyes has never managed to get into the the ’big club’ mentality. He manages Everton like he were still in charge of Preston. It’s one of the reasons he never speaks out about Kenwright. He likes working with no resources because it gives him the perfect excuse when we lose.
The new motto under Moyes should be:
"Expect nothing and anything else will be a bonus."
The new motto under Moyes should be:
"Expect nothing and anything else will be a bonus."
Tony Williams
6 Posted 18/08/2009 at 09:43:06
6 Posted 18/08/2009 at 09:43:06
Mark, that was my take on it. I have heard the interview on EvertonTV and he says that the first aim is to be safe from relegation, then get into the top 10 and then push on from there.
Usual story of not letting the truth get in the way of a sensational tale.
Usual story of not letting the truth get in the way of a sensational tale.
Tony Williams
7 Posted 18/08/2009 at 10:12:47
7 Posted 18/08/2009 at 10:12:47
Alan or maybe our motto should now be "We should stop expecting so much more from our average team", seems more realistic.
Chris Lawlor
8 Posted 18/08/2009 at 10:18:45
8 Posted 18/08/2009 at 10:18:45
We all know that Moyes is a pragmatist first hence these type of comments. I’m with Tony on this. Had we not lost in the manner of Saturday then these points would not be scrutinised to such a degree.
Yes, Saturday was a mauling and an embarrassment but at least it was early in the season and against one of the big boys. I have no doubt that there will be a response to this and I think Sigma and Burnley are in for tough games. If the players cannot lift themselves and their characters for the next few games then maybe we are in trouble.
At the moment, it's too early to tell. If we had won 6-1, do you think everyone would be singing our praises and touting us for huge success this year? No chance, it would have been seen as an opening day aberration and that's how we must view Saturday for now.
Alan Clarke
9 Posted 18/08/2009 at 10:24:02
9 Posted 18/08/2009 at 10:24:02
After Saturday, I expect nothing!
Peter Griffin
10 Posted 18/08/2009 at 11:04:35
10 Posted 18/08/2009 at 11:04:35
The kind of players we need to progress are not going to be attracted to a club whose priority is to avoid relegation. He needs to be positive and consistent. He can’t say one day we’re going to push for a top 4 place and then go back to the old avoiding relegation shout. Players don’t want to hear it.
Alan Clarke
11 Posted 18/08/2009 at 11:14:54
11 Posted 18/08/2009 at 11:14:54
Peter, what about these players he’s attracting to Finch Farm? where are we upto on that front? Any updates?
Peter Griffin
12 Posted 18/08/2009 at 11:23:11
12 Posted 18/08/2009 at 11:23:11
I was told only one medical took place yesterday. Talks are supposed to be taking place today for Taylor and another player. Hopefully I will hear more this afternoon.
Stuart Mitchell
13 Posted 18/08/2009 at 12:10:54
13 Posted 18/08/2009 at 12:10:54
Russian right winger Vladimir Bystrov could be one signing, his profile has been removed from the Spartak Moscow site.
Tony Marsh
14 Posted 18/08/2009 at 12:16:18
14 Posted 18/08/2009 at 12:16:18
First of all, we will not be able to attract player to Everton if the wages on offer are less than they are getting now. Taylor at Newcastle is on £60k a week according to my Geordie pal. Why would Taylor come here for £20k less a week?
As for Moyes and money available, it doesnt matter. Throw what you like at Moyes but it still won't change his mindset or his style of play. 8 years in charge and 3 different sides and still hoofball played by small pace-less flair-less players is order of the day.
Moyes is a defence-minded long-ball merchant and no amount of money will change that. Basically, Moyes is a bully who doesn't like big personalities or players with charisma as they are hard to push about. This is why Big Dunc was despised by Moyes and, as long as Moyes sticks around, choirboy types is all we will ever see playing in the Blue Jersey.
Moyes may possess certain attributes that many of you love but to me he is a saftey-first unamagintive coach who shuns the flair player for grafters. He will never set foot in Old Trafford as manager and I doubt many other clubs fans would put up with the negative shite we take to the pitch in every game.
Only a twat like Kenwright would be happy for his manager serving up dross to the fans and patting him on the back with a huge pay rise.
The 6-1 defeat at home is all we need to know abot DM. Shits himself when ever a big 4 team turn up.
As for Moyes and money available, it doesnt matter. Throw what you like at Moyes but it still won't change his mindset or his style of play. 8 years in charge and 3 different sides and still hoofball played by small pace-less flair-less players is order of the day.
Moyes is a defence-minded long-ball merchant and no amount of money will change that. Basically, Moyes is a bully who doesn't like big personalities or players with charisma as they are hard to push about. This is why Big Dunc was despised by Moyes and, as long as Moyes sticks around, choirboy types is all we will ever see playing in the Blue Jersey.
Moyes may possess certain attributes that many of you love but to me he is a saftey-first unamagintive coach who shuns the flair player for grafters. He will never set foot in Old Trafford as manager and I doubt many other clubs fans would put up with the negative shite we take to the pitch in every game.
Only a twat like Kenwright would be happy for his manager serving up dross to the fans and patting him on the back with a huge pay rise.
The 6-1 defeat at home is all we need to know abot DM. Shits himself when ever a big 4 team turn up.
Tony Williams
15 Posted 18/08/2009 at 12:35:51
15 Posted 18/08/2009 at 12:35:51
"This is why Big Dunc was despised by Moyes"
So much so he gave him two extensions on his contract!
"Moyes may possess certain attributes that many of you love but to me he is a saftey first unamagintive coach who shuns the flair player for grafters"
What flair players are these? I must have missed their names on the teamsheet — and don’t dare suggest Shandy Andy.
"Only a Twat like Kenwright would be happy for his manager serving up dross to the fans and patting him on the back with a huge pay rise"
Imagine that hey? A boss giving a manger a raise after he consistently gets his average team to outperform all the rest of the team scrounging for scraps from teh Sky 4 table, what’s this world coming to.
Tony you are consistently telling us how shit most of our players are yet act all surprised and affronted when they perform badly. How does that work?
So much so he gave him two extensions on his contract!
"Moyes may possess certain attributes that many of you love but to me he is a saftey first unamagintive coach who shuns the flair player for grafters"
What flair players are these? I must have missed their names on the teamsheet — and don’t dare suggest Shandy Andy.
"Only a Twat like Kenwright would be happy for his manager serving up dross to the fans and patting him on the back with a huge pay rise"
Imagine that hey? A boss giving a manger a raise after he consistently gets his average team to outperform all the rest of the team scrounging for scraps from teh Sky 4 table, what’s this world coming to.
Tony you are consistently telling us how shit most of our players are yet act all surprised and affronted when they perform badly. How does that work?
Alan Clarke
16 Posted 18/08/2009 at 12:41:27
16 Posted 18/08/2009 at 12:41:27
But Tony, he has no money!! What do you expect? Do you not realise, it’s a simple maths equation:
No money + lack of imagination = shit football.
People will only accept Moyes’s unimaginative style providing it’s effective but when a team slots 6 past you at home, which should have been 10 had Arsenal not been a little rusty, that’s when it becomes totally unacceptable. I see Wigan, a team with fewer resources than ours, totally outplayed Villa with a passing game on Saturday. It can be done.
No money + lack of imagination = shit football.
People will only accept Moyes’s unimaginative style providing it’s effective but when a team slots 6 past you at home, which should have been 10 had Arsenal not been a little rusty, that’s when it becomes totally unacceptable. I see Wigan, a team with fewer resources than ours, totally outplayed Villa with a passing game on Saturday. It can be done.
Peter Griffin
17 Posted 18/08/2009 at 12:45:52
17 Posted 18/08/2009 at 12:45:52
Taylor is not on £60k a week at Newcastle.
Tony Marsh
18 Posted 18/08/2009 at 12:41:51
18 Posted 18/08/2009 at 12:41:51
Tony, you're a whopper mate. When I say your Darling Dave shuns flair players I mean he doesn't sign them. He hates pace and skill and favours weaklings like Osman and grafters like Neville. There are no flair players because Moyes shuns them FACT.
As for the football, it gets harder to stomach the longer Moyes is here. We are going backwards as a footballing side and no amount of cup final defeats or Europa Cup qualifications can hide that FACT also.
If you think it's money that gets players to pass the ball along the deck to feet, or be able to string three passes together in sequence, then you are a fool. It's basic schoolboy stuff and Moyes's sides can't play that way. It doesn't take money — it takes know-how, that's all....
As for the football, it gets harder to stomach the longer Moyes is here. We are going backwards as a footballing side and no amount of cup final defeats or Europa Cup qualifications can hide that FACT also.
If you think it's money that gets players to pass the ball along the deck to feet, or be able to string three passes together in sequence, then you are a fool. It's basic schoolboy stuff and Moyes's sides can't play that way. It doesn't take money — it takes know-how, that's all....
Tony Marsh
19 Posted 18/08/2009 at 12:49:43
19 Posted 18/08/2009 at 12:49:43
Alan I got slaughtered on here last season when I said Swansea are a great side to watch under Martinez.
Now he is at Wigan just watch the style in which they will play.I wouldnt mind not winning trophies as long as there was light at the end of the tunnel and some nice stuff to watch that we could be proud of.
To many of our lot love the backs to the wall boot it anywhere shite and its
a fucking disgrace to watch..Tony Williams likes it though so it must be OK.
Now he is at Wigan just watch the style in which they will play.I wouldnt mind not winning trophies as long as there was light at the end of the tunnel and some nice stuff to watch that we could be proud of.
To many of our lot love the backs to the wall boot it anywhere shite and its
a fucking disgrace to watch..Tony Williams likes it though so it must be OK.
Tony Marsh
20 Posted 18/08/2009 at 12:53:57
20 Posted 18/08/2009 at 12:53:57
Peter Newcastle players are on huge sums of money and I have no doubt Taylor is on more money than any player at our club unless there has been a pay cut due to relegation.
£60k a week is below average at the Toon
3
£60k a week is below average at the Toon
3
Peter Griffin
21 Posted 18/08/2009 at 12:53:54
21 Posted 18/08/2009 at 12:53:54
Tony M - I wrote an article saying pretty much what you are about our style of play, or lack of!
We may have progressed in terms of final league positions, but our tactics are still the same. Long balls, players panicking when they have time and just hoofing it, it’s poor to watch and I’m sick of it.
We aren’t winning anything with these tactics, so why not play some fucking football? Even if we still don’t win anything, at least we will have been entertained.
We may have progressed in terms of final league positions, but our tactics are still the same. Long balls, players panicking when they have time and just hoofing it, it’s poor to watch and I’m sick of it.
We aren’t winning anything with these tactics, so why not play some fucking football? Even if we still don’t win anything, at least we will have been entertained.
Chris Lawlor
22 Posted 18/08/2009 at 13:12:52
22 Posted 18/08/2009 at 13:12:52
Tony Marsh,
In real world terms can you tell me how would like to see the club move forward
You want Moyes out - Replaced by?
You want Kenwright out - Replaced by?
You want Hibbert, Osman, Pienarr, Arteta, Cahill out ( ’all small choir boy players’) - Replaced by who?
For all your frustration, bitching and moaning can you propose one positive motion you would make to improve the situation?
I, like most others here have deep frustrations with the club but your’s seem to run to a far more personal level, were you rejected by the club at youth level?
All i’m asking for is an objective article from you for once, one without the bile, myopic hatred and utter negativity.
In real world terms can you tell me how would like to see the club move forward
You want Moyes out - Replaced by?
You want Kenwright out - Replaced by?
You want Hibbert, Osman, Pienarr, Arteta, Cahill out ( ’all small choir boy players’) - Replaced by who?
For all your frustration, bitching and moaning can you propose one positive motion you would make to improve the situation?
I, like most others here have deep frustrations with the club but your’s seem to run to a far more personal level, were you rejected by the club at youth level?
All i’m asking for is an objective article from you for once, one without the bile, myopic hatred and utter negativity.
Alan Clarke
23 Posted 18/08/2009 at 13:05:04
23 Posted 18/08/2009 at 13:05:04
What I still can’t understand though is to play Moyes’ ’style’ (I use that term loosely) it takes a hell of a lot of fitness and endurance. You have to work a lot harder if you don’t have the ball as your chasing after it all the time. So if Moyes wants to play that way, why didn’t he have his team fit enough for Saturday? Why did a team who’ve had the summer off look "jaded" (as Wenger put it)?
This Thursday and away at Burnley are massive now because for Moyes to continue his ’style’ of play he has to prove Saturday was a one off. Surely even Moyes’s most fervent supporters will then be questioning him? Or is it still all just Kenwright’s fault?
This Thursday and away at Burnley are massive now because for Moyes to continue his ’style’ of play he has to prove Saturday was a one off. Surely even Moyes’s most fervent supporters will then be questioning him? Or is it still all just Kenwright’s fault?
Peter Griffin
24 Posted 18/08/2009 at 13:17:55
24 Posted 18/08/2009 at 13:17:55
Phil Neville today “That has been our strength. Even if the quality of our play has not been good at times in the past, people know that we are hard to beat.”
Dean Adams
25 Posted 18/08/2009 at 13:13:02
25 Posted 18/08/2009 at 13:13:02
Tony Marsh
You hit the proverbial "nail" on the head when you said, " now he is at Wigan just watch the style they will play". The point is probably lost on some of our fans, but the fact is clear, any and ALL premier league players should be comfortable playing the ball, otherwise how did they get in the team, league in the first place.
Trouble with football now is the ridiculous money and the childish attitudes shown by the majority of the over paid fairies playing the game in the modern era.
As for new signings, seems to be you nailed that as well, but then again we do play the deja vu card every close season. Facts are thin on the ground, but the evidence is that our debts are holding us back and BK is culpable for much of that.
I rarely agree with you on most subjects, however I can see where you are coming from on many. Keep believing and maybe one day...
You hit the proverbial "nail" on the head when you said, " now he is at Wigan just watch the style they will play". The point is probably lost on some of our fans, but the fact is clear, any and ALL premier league players should be comfortable playing the ball, otherwise how did they get in the team, league in the first place.
Trouble with football now is the ridiculous money and the childish attitudes shown by the majority of the over paid fairies playing the game in the modern era.
As for new signings, seems to be you nailed that as well, but then again we do play the deja vu card every close season. Facts are thin on the ground, but the evidence is that our debts are holding us back and BK is culpable for much of that.
I rarely agree with you on most subjects, however I can see where you are coming from on many. Keep believing and maybe one day...
Tony Williams
26 Posted 18/08/2009 at 13:22:04
26 Posted 18/08/2009 at 13:22:04
"Tony your a whopper mate.When I say your Darling Dave shuns flair players I mean he doesnt sign them.He hates pace and skill and favours weaklings like Osman and grafters like Neville.
There are no flair players because Moyes shuns them FACT"
Tony, name calling gets you nowhere but it does tie in with your "I’m right and if you don’t agree with me then you are an idiot" mentality that has often been on show with your useless posts.
Flair players as a whole cost money, now I cannot be more straight forward than that. A flair player will have a high transfer fee and a high wage expectation, so Tony, please explain to me how we can afford that?
We bought Fellaini last year because we sold our stiker and Fadds. We have sold no-one this year hence the lack of signings.
Instead of resorting to name calling just answer my simple question.
"Tony you are consistently telling us how shit most of our players are yet act all surprised and affronted when they perform badly. How does that work?"
There are no flair players because Moyes shuns them FACT"
Tony, name calling gets you nowhere but it does tie in with your "I’m right and if you don’t agree with me then you are an idiot" mentality that has often been on show with your useless posts.
Flair players as a whole cost money, now I cannot be more straight forward than that. A flair player will have a high transfer fee and a high wage expectation, so Tony, please explain to me how we can afford that?
We bought Fellaini last year because we sold our stiker and Fadds. We have sold no-one this year hence the lack of signings.
Instead of resorting to name calling just answer my simple question.
"Tony you are consistently telling us how shit most of our players are yet act all surprised and affronted when they perform badly. How does that work?"
Peter Griffin
27 Posted 18/08/2009 at 13:25:31
27 Posted 18/08/2009 at 13:25:31
I’m all for us working hard closing the opposition down when we haven’t got the ball, but what annoys me is when we have got it we seem to do our best to get rid of it as quickly as possible. We’re like a daft dog playing fetch.
Spurs never gave the shite any space and kept closing them down, but when they had the ball they passed it on the deck, got it wide where thay had pace and players who could cross a ball. They got a result in the end which they deserved.
Spurs never gave the shite any space and kept closing them down, but when they had the ball they passed it on the deck, got it wide where thay had pace and players who could cross a ball. They got a result in the end which they deserved.
Tony Williams
28 Posted 18/08/2009 at 13:28:43
28 Posted 18/08/2009 at 13:28:43
"To many of our lot love the backs to the wall boot it anywhere shite and its
a fucking disgrace to watch..Tony Williams likes it though so it must be OK"
Show me one post of mine in the years I have posted on here that says I like dour football.
Is that anotther one of your FACTS, I don’t say it often but posters sound like a Redshite when they do that......and that’s a fact.
Make up lies all you want Tony, I am used to them.
a fucking disgrace to watch..Tony Williams likes it though so it must be OK"
Show me one post of mine in the years I have posted on here that says I like dour football.
Is that anotther one of your FACTS, I don’t say it often but posters sound like a Redshite when they do that......and that’s a fact.
Make up lies all you want Tony, I am used to them.
Alan Clarke
29 Posted 18/08/2009 at 13:38:07
29 Posted 18/08/2009 at 13:38:07
Has anyone ever watched Everton train? I’d love to see what Moyes and Round go through with them in training.
Moyes: "Yobo! what the fuck are you doing trying to pass that ball to a midfielder? Get it hoofed!
"Howard! why did you play that ball to Bainesey? Get if hoofed!
"If I see one more player trying to pass that ball on the floor in their own half then it’s 50 laps."
Moyes: "Yobo! what the fuck are you doing trying to pass that ball to a midfielder? Get it hoofed!
"Howard! why did you play that ball to Bainesey? Get if hoofed!
"If I see one more player trying to pass that ball on the floor in their own half then it’s 50 laps."
Chris Lawlor
30 Posted 18/08/2009 at 13:47:53
30 Posted 18/08/2009 at 13:47:53
Quiet day at work Alan?
Alan Clarke
31 Posted 18/08/2009 at 15:34:55
31 Posted 18/08/2009 at 15:34:55
Quite, Peter and Ciaran included. I’m going home now.
Add Your Comments
In order to post a comment to the MailBag, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.
Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and MailBag submissions across the site.
© ToffeeWeb
-sm.jpg)
-sm.jpg)
-sm.jpg)
-sm.jpg)
But lo! Who is that makes such projections? Why... t'is the Manager himself, the Manager of the Year no less. Give me strength!