ToffeeWeb - Season 2009-10

The Mail Bag

Beginning of the end?

Ok, so it looks like Lescott has finally moved on from Everton. That means Moyes has 8 days to replace him and everyone else that has left. If we had sold him weeks ago we would have had at least 6 weeks, but that is too easy for the club isnt it?

Anyway what I wanted to share to see if anybody agrees is whether Lescott wanting to go had ulterior motives, and whether this will have a knock-on effect to the rest of the team. Most Evertonians agree that Lescott left us for more money, significantly more. And most Evertonians would also agree that right now Everton ambitions (consistent European finishes) outweighs Man City's mid-table finishes.

Now to say that Lescott has moved for money is such an easy answer, and that's why everyone at Goodison next will be whispering it to each other. But I ask you this, what if Lescott left us cause he knew where we are going to end up? I mean, Man City have money, players and a future. Everton, for the second season running, have got to the last week of the transfer window without buying anyone.

So, when we look back at the end of the season, we can either say that was our problem or revel in how we have punched above our weight again with no money. Even two games in we are bottom, GD minus 6; Man City have 2 wins from 2. I'm not going to assess the whole season on these two games, i know better than that.

But look at some of our other players. Pienaar was seen as one of the best young players in Europe before he came to us, won't we want to play for a club who can play in the Champions League? Arteta has been rumored to be wanted by Athletico Madrid.

Maxi Rodriguez, Aguero, Forlan, Simao... OR Neville, Osman, Hibbert and Jô? Maybe Arteta will want to move to a club that can play Champions League football as well. Same goes for Yakubu, or Cahill, or Saha, or Fellaini, or Baines or any decent player we have.

Point is, do we have to keep having to finish 5th to keep these players? If we finish outside the European places will they want to leave? If a team comes knocking in the future, will they assess their future and do another Lescott? Everyone knows we have no way of breaking into the top 4 without luck nowdays.

So could Lescott really be leaving for the money or do we really have no future as a top 5 club? I say this not as a pessimistic blue but as one just like many who are sick of everything dragging the club to this point.
Christopher Ashton, Liverpool Posted 24/08/2009 at 09:20:29

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Craig Taylor
1 Posted 24/08/2009 at 10:57:24

What a shit start to the season. Now it looks like we are going to have some money, let's stop fucking about. Get it spent on some quality additions and get out on a team bonding session similar to last season. Only this time lets not wait until November. There are only 2 games gone, we can't really have got so far behind teams. Come lads!

Jimmy Saville
2 Posted 24/08/2009 at 14:48:16

It's all for the future, but haven’t we got several really great prospects? Haven’t we been buying young lads up all summer and in previous years? We can only hope that they will be ready sooner rather than later and that Moyes in his wisdom will play them.

Dave Wilson
3 Posted 24/08/2009 at 14:49:37

Not sure the situation isn't already irretrievable. Ok, I know were are only two games in, but finsihing above City and Spurs was always going to be a big ask; to give a 9-point start isn't the ideal way of setting about it.

Everton just don't do prep, unfortunately while we were fucking about in Utah, Coventry and Blackpool, other teams were sharpening up against Europe's finest; we’d have been here with or without the Lescott saga.

Kunal Desai
4 Posted 24/08/2009 at 15:01:24

I’m not that optimistic we’ll get numbers in before the deadline. As Moyes said, he needs 3-4 players of which he’s not managed to get in a single player over the course of the last 6-7 weeks so what chance is there of him getting 4 players in 8 days??

I’ve said it before and will say it again: team spirit and togetherness only gets you so far in finishing high up the table, but I think this season will be a season too many and the likes of City, Spurs and Villa will all finish above us and dare I say maybe 1 or 2 others!

Ciarán McGlone
5 Posted 24/08/2009 at 15:04:44

Man City’s ambitions have nothing whatsoever to do with where they finished last season... They are, without a doubt, very ambitious to get near the top.

So to say our ambitions outweigh Man City’s is simply wrong... in fact it’s a bizarre suggestion — considering the ambition we’ve shown this summer...

Peter Griffin
6 Posted 24/08/2009 at 15:15:44

Kunal - In the last 6-7 weeks we signed nobody. In the last 6-7 days we have agreed an overdraft and the sale of an asset for £24million which I think should increase even Dithering Daves chances of getting a couple in before the window closes.

Mark Wynne
7 Posted 24/08/2009 at 15:31:22

We aren’t even spending the Sky money now and have become a selling club as a consequence. Hey that "free" stadium must be costing a bit. Still, we’ll be £5 mil a season better off... if we fill it... if anyone goes... if there’s a team to watch... if we’re still in the Premier League... Hah!

Andy Crooks
8 Posted 24/08/2009 at 15:30:55

Right now, I’d settle for 15th place and a couple of lucrative cup runs. It seems that my own ambitions now match those of the chairman and manager. This is different from last season. I have a very bad feeling about our club right now.

Paul Saleh
9 Posted 24/08/2009 at 15:35:54

It's interesting to know how much we have actually got to spend on players? We were supposedly talking to agents/clubs as early as June, yet with 8 days to go we are no nearer to signing anyone. Will Moyes be given any money?

Kenwright and the board must be taken to task over this fiasco, to do it last season was bad enough, but to repeat it again is unforgivable. Sack the board, I think it's time for Evertonians to force the issue — otherwise the smug bastard will just carry on ignoring us.

Sell up, Bill and fuck off to London; let someone with the financial clout take over.

Ben Howard
10 Posted 24/08/2009 at 15:33:53

I’m concerned by the state of the club too and you may have a point that Lescott’s motives weren’t entirely money orientated (although that’s a very nice by-product!).

Be careful not to twist facts to justify your point though Christopher. You say, "Pienaar was seen as one of the best young players in Europe before he came to us". This is blatantly bollocks. He was a player with potential who had significantly under-performed at Dortmund. We were able to secure his services for about £2.2 million (I think) and since then he has been reinvigorated and has exceeded the early promise he showed at Ajax.

That’s quite a different picture to the one you paint, mate.

Jimmy Saville
11 Posted 24/08/2009 at 15:41:34

The fee for Lescott is £22M. £2M more with add-ons. There’s a fee between 10-20% to pay Wolves. The agent(s) (vultures) get around 10% of the transfer fee. I’d imagine that some will go to the overdraft.

Doesn’t leave much left for transfers.

Ciarán McGlone
12 Posted 24/08/2009 at 15:56:08

Can anyone show me a single bit of official confirmation that a sell-on clause exists?

Even Mick McCarthy seems none the wiser.

Mac Lloyd
13 Posted 24/08/2009 at 15:54:26

Anyone reading this site would think we’re the shitest team that ever played in the royal blue jersey, some people have got very short memories.

Cast your mind back to last season, lost at home to Blackburn, beat the Baggies away, lost at home to Pompey, not exactly the stuff of dreams is it? But remember where we finished.

For fuck's sake get a grip — it’s two games! Roger went for the money, end of.

Paul Saleh
14 Posted 24/08/2009 at 16:00:14

Based on Everton's transfer dealings, it's most probably a 50% sell-on clause.

Ellen West
15 Posted 24/08/2009 at 16:04:00

I keep looking on Sky Sports expecting to see the headline "Lokomotiv Moscow deny Everton bid — player going nowhere."

I can also imagine that we will not sign anyone until next Monday, and then he will be an unknown and Premier League untested with a bizarre hairstyle.

But, no matter what happens, we will still finish in 5th place.

Brian Lawlor
16 Posted 24/08/2009 at 16:12:11

Ciaran - the attached link is from the local paper in Wolverhampton:

http://www.expressandstar.com/2009/07/30/wolves-wait-on-lescott-windfall/

Nick Parker
17 Posted 24/08/2009 at 16:10:32

We are presuming that DM is getting all or most of the Lescott cash? Expect Dean Windass and Geoff Horsfield on deadline day.

Lost all hope...

Stephen Graham
18 Posted 24/08/2009 at 16:41:41

Reports have Calum Davenport, an available centre back, having a medical.

Could it be?

Phil Rodgers
19 Posted 24/08/2009 at 16:42:30

If we dont sign a centre back in the next few days, I dread to think what will happen. One thing that scares me is that targets will be put off by our league position.

Ciarán McGlone
20 Posted 24/08/2009 at 16:55:36

Brian,

That’s not confirmation - that’s journalist guesswork.

Stephen Foster
21 Posted 24/08/2009 at 16:55:14

A lot of the comments here are getting plain silly.

Yes, it's an awful start to a season, but I remember thinking at the start of last season that we’d be struggling near the bottom, yet we got 5th and to the FA Cup Final.

We’ve had a bad start, and the team is low on confidence — but it's not the end of the world. They are some good players, they’ll pull it together.

Ciarán McGlone
22 Posted 24/08/2009 at 16:59:47

"With a bizarre hairstyle."
--------------------

HAHA... a Moyes pre-requisite... Moyes dithering takes on a whole new light — "I'm not signing him until he gets a perm..."

Chris Ashton
23 Posted 24/08/2009 at 17:13:08

"What is more, Pienaar has reinvented himself since joining English Premier League high-flyers Everton, to such an extent that he is now considered by many to be a genuine South African football great." — that is taken from fifa.com's profile about pienaar.

I remember reading about Pienaar being seen as one of the best young players, considering who he played with at Ajax. We got him for so cheap because Dortmund players didn't accept him and he had a serious injury which led to them cutting their losses with him.

But to be fair, every team in the Premier League has ambition to win the league on day one. They may aim to stay up, or top 6 or top 4 or whatever but they all would aim to be the best team surely? Therefore, Man City have as much ambition as us, they have just spent more to achieve it. They are no more ambitious than a team who consistently finishes 5th in the league at the end of the day. They have just got more cash.

I was making the point in 2-3 years time, will we have any money, or even a manager compared to Man City who will have the team and will be able to add to it. If I had no allegiance to a club like Everton, I would pick that option over not knowing who the hell is going to be signing for us every season.

Brian Lawlor
24 Posted 24/08/2009 at 17:20:02

Ciaran - yes it’s not official confirmation but it’s unlikely that either club would disclose this information officially now. Maybe Wolves will once he goes. We’ll see. The fact that this has been reported in several media outlets suggests it is more likley to be true than not, as is often the case.

Also, that's not a tabloid it’s a local paper who are close to Wolves and are less likely they are going to print untruths. Just like we know Lescott is going to paid in the region of £80k per week. He was a promising young defender so I would expect Wolves to stick this in just like we did with Rooney.

As for Mick McCarthy not knowing much about it, what does that prove? 1) he wasn’t at Wolves when he was sold; 2) a board isn’t likely to sit down and go through previous transfer deals with every new manager; 3) he may have been playing dumb to the media; 4) he didn’t actually say it wasn’t true and refused to comment on it.

Gerry Quinn
25 Posted 24/08/2009 at 17:41:30

Stephen Graham, Not sure if you meant it, but just to let you know that the young man you refer to is still in a serious condition in hospital after the stabbing and the doctors are concerned that they may have to amputate his left leg. If he does get through without losing his leg they are not even sure if he will ever play again.

I’m certain that all Evertonians do wish him every bit of good fortune and that his recovery, along with that of his Mum will be as full as possible.

Mike Oates
26 Posted 24/08/2009 at 17:52:09

Saying it for the 5th time in the last 3 weeks . WE DONT PAY ENOUGH SALARY FOR QUALITY PLAYERS . Forget transfer capital etc , we aint generating enough income to move our salary levels up to the Premiership’s Top 10 let alone the Top European clubs.We cant attract the likes of even Steven Taylor who’s probably on more than all our players.

Whilst we are paying £40k/wk expect Championship, lower level Premiership, 2nd rate Europeans and hope Moyes makes them top level players - who will then leave to join a Top 4 or City or Spurs .

Arteta , Pinnear , Yakubu , Rodwell ? will last one more season , and unless radical change to the Board they will be off.

Martin Mason
27 Posted 24/08/2009 at 17:43:41

We’re supporters of Everton but we must not blindly take what they do as acceptable. Positive criticism is healthy and essential and if one day we take to the streets to get change then so be it.

Pienaar is a very good player and Osman too in the right position, Arteta is great but look at them, they are pint sized... and to be world class, just being skillful isn’t enough, it has to be physical as well. Fellaini was a defensive midfielder and we play him as an attacking midfielder, he’s a handful but has no real skills and €15M? That is as ridiculous as £24M for Lescott.

We are in the shit for sure and there is no bottom to where Everton can end up if the club continues on its current course of gross mismanagement. They have achieved very flattering positions in the Premier League in recent seasons through negative tactics saved by flashes of individual brilliance. We may well have been found out and we cannot really on getting better as we have done in the past.

We may improve but that isn’t enough for me as an Evertonian from the 60s on. What about our pride and entertainment???

Why did we let Lars Jacobsen move on? He looked just what we needed as a squad player — even first choice.

Neil Scott
28 Posted 24/08/2009 at 18:11:08

Martin, We obviously let Jacobsen go because we thought we’d got Naughton in the bag. Well we know what happened there and, as usual — there was no Plan B. There never is.

Not when it comes to signings, ground moves or even playing tactics.

Some would doubt that there is rarely even a Plan A but if you fail to plan — you plan to fail.

Ray Robinson
29 Posted 24/08/2009 at 19:23:33

The Doomsday scenario is that Lescott has his medical and there is a problem that Man City exploit to knock the fee down (not impossible, given the alleged state of Lescott’s knees). What do we do then? Accept Roger back into the fold or take a massive cut?

Where is the money that would have bought Naughton? Where is the money that would have been used if Moyes had got his way to keep Lescott?

And do we not realise that teams will inflate the asking price if we do try to pitch in with some last minute bids? The gains of holding out for an additional £4m could soon be outweighed by inflated prices that we need to shell out as we buy in desperation.

Felliaini anybody? Does anyone seirously believe that we’d have paid £15m / euros if we’d not left it to te last minute? Overpriced at £5m if you ask me (but that’s a separate debate!

The problem is our board / manager never seem to learn in the transfer market!

Chris Jones
30 Posted 24/08/2009 at 21:29:40

Everything seems to point to us being skint. We recently secured a £13m overdraft (i.e. money we’ve already soent) against next season's TV income. So, prior to any money coming in for Lescott, there ain't any.

I’d hoped after last year we’d be vying toe to toe with the Red lot. Little did I expect it would be in a relegation battle — they’re losing 0-2 at home to Villa ;o)

Sam Higgins
31 Posted 24/08/2009 at 21:48:20

I know its scant consolation but it looks like the shite are goona have a tough time of it too this season.

Listening to Five Live - Alan Green is near to tears that Liverpool are loosing to Villa!!

Mike Oates
32 Posted 24/08/2009 at 22:02:37

Both Everton and the other red shower are skint. We cannot compete with the Manchester lot and the London lot in today’s football operation.

Jimmy Daly
33 Posted 24/08/2009 at 20:24:16

This time last year we were in much the same predicament. First ten league games through the end of October ended with three wins, all away, at Bolton, Stoke and West Brom; four loses, at home to Pompey, Blackburn, Liverpool and away at Arsenal. We drew three, away to Hull and at home to Utd and Toon. At the end of October we had played 10 times and had 12 points.

Fast forward this year. Lost the first two, we now have Wigan, Blackburn, Stoke, Wolves and Villa at home. Fulham, Pompey and Bolton away. Feasible to have 18/20 points by the end of October. And they say we Evertonians are not pessimists!!

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