The Mail Bag
Uefa Punish Eduardo
Comments (32)
Uefa are going to give Eduardo a ban due to his dive against Celtic.This is surprising given the amount of diving that goes on, so is this a turning point against those players who see no wrong in conning the ref' and cheating the game?
This will be a Euro ban, but how much will the powers at be in the EPL take note? Given the top 4 have the majority of dirty cheating bastards and the blessing of referees too, would they want to let their advantage slip as the top 4 remaining so is critical to selling contracts abroad?
Surely if Eduardo is to be banned, it can't be a one-off and future divers will get the same... what's the word... I'll go with hindsight punishment by video.
I hope that soon enough this will become a preventative measure which stops the cheating with players dismissing it as an option open to them. Hopefully the going down easy in the middle of the park can also be looked at.
Steven Gerrard will now have to start shooting once he's in the box and half the Chelsea squad will need to rethink their tactics... about time too!
Once players start behaving themselves this will win back a respect to the game with ebbs away after every high profile dive, and will stop my Aussie mates saying you follow a 'poofter sport'.
Nick Entwistle, Posted 28/08/2009 at 08:52:19
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Dan McKie
2 Posted 28/08/2009 at 14:02:07
2 Posted 28/08/2009 at 14:02:07
The referee’s decision should be final! It isn’t like this was an off the ball incident that the ref didnt see, he saw it, and made a decision, end of! Wether or not Eduardo dived is irrelevent IMO!
Ciarán McGlone
3 Posted 28/08/2009 at 13:59:44
3 Posted 28/08/2009 at 13:59:44
Interesting one this...I would assume that any right minded fan would want cheating (cough...Hibbert)..removed from the game..Irrespective of it’s one of our own - I’ve hedl my head in my hands many times over the Yaks histrionics..
But i’m not so sure this sanction will work across the board - I’ve heard Wenger say it means a presumption of the intention to cheat - and he’s right.
If someone went over in the box on their own steam then I would assume that they’d be hoovered up by this new sanction and therefore be labelled a cheat - even if they weren’t..
There’s a grey line in this scenario and UEFA may be living dangerously - because calling someone a ’cheat’ sounds suspiciously like defamation to me...I wouldn’t be surprised if this ends up in the high court if someone gets wrongly blamed on cheating.
As for Platini and his ’umpires’ suggestion - absolutely ridiculous to go for this and ignore the already existing solution.
But i’m not so sure this sanction will work across the board - I’ve heard Wenger say it means a presumption of the intention to cheat - and he’s right.
If someone went over in the box on their own steam then I would assume that they’d be hoovered up by this new sanction and therefore be labelled a cheat - even if they weren’t..
There’s a grey line in this scenario and UEFA may be living dangerously - because calling someone a ’cheat’ sounds suspiciously like defamation to me...I wouldn’t be surprised if this ends up in the high court if someone gets wrongly blamed on cheating.
As for Platini and his ’umpires’ suggestion - absolutely ridiculous to go for this and ignore the already existing solution.
Malcolm Evans
4 Posted 28/08/2009 at 14:06:32
4 Posted 28/08/2009 at 14:06:32
I disagree Dan, diving players is the thing that annoys me most about watching football these days, even more than Everton's transfer policy! If the threat of a ban for blatant cheating is gonna help cut it out then I'm all for it.
Then we just need to stop players rolling on the ground like they have been hit by a sniper after the slightest touch from the opposition and we're sorted!!
Then we just need to stop players rolling on the ground like they have been hit by a sniper after the slightest touch from the opposition and we're sorted!!
Nick Entwistle
5 Posted 28/08/2009 at 14:13:25
5 Posted 28/08/2009 at 14:13:25
Retrospective. That’s the word!
Players should not be held up as some devine force. They’re not precious, they’re big burley men, and if they get called a cheat, they can live with it and tough luck!
Players should not be held up as some devine force. They’re not precious, they’re big burley men, and if they get called a cheat, they can live with it and tough luck!
Dan McKie
6 Posted 28/08/2009 at 14:10:17
6 Posted 28/08/2009 at 14:10:17
Malcolm, yes, diving is annoying, but what if it is the other way round and the keeper had took him out and the penalty wasn’t given? Does the keeper then get labeled a cheat after the game on video evidence for stoping a player from scoring illegally? Apart from a red card being recinded on appeal, I cant see how we can challenge referee’s decisions, because where does it end?
Malcolm Evans
7 Posted 28/08/2009 at 14:19:10
7 Posted 28/08/2009 at 14:19:10
If the keeper takes someone out then that's classed as a tackle, exactly the same as if a defender does it in the area, it's then up to the ref to decide if it's a penalty or not.
I'm not sure how the keeper making a bad challenge in the area and the ref not giving a penalty can be classed as cheating though?
That's just part of the game, always has been.
I'm not sure how the keeper making a bad challenge in the area and the ref not giving a penalty can be classed as cheating though?
That's just part of the game, always has been.
Dan McKie
8 Posted 28/08/2009 at 14:23:20
8 Posted 28/08/2009 at 14:23:20
What it is doing though is blaming a player for a wrong decision by the referee! Players go down easily all the time to get free kicks. Eduardo was at full pelt going for that ball so any slight touch would send him down, or he can just say he was jumping out of the way cos he thought he was going to get clattered. Eduardo didn't actually claim for the penalty, it was given instantly so he could just say he knew it wasnt a pen so didn't appeal for one.
Robbie Fowler once protested against himself being given a pen when he tripped over his own foot whilst going round David Seaman, but the ref still gave it because it was his decision. The referee’s decision has always been final, same as a lineman's when he flags offside, and that is the way it should stay.
Alan Clarke
9 Posted 28/08/2009 at 14:34:01
9 Posted 28/08/2009 at 14:34:01
Should Tony Hibbert be punished for Sunday’s then?
I’m pleased with this. Eduardo could have his legs chopped clean off in a tackle and he wouldn’t win a pen now.
Someone made the point last season about Ballack. If I threw a punch at him in a club on a Saturday night, he probably wouldn’t even flinch but touch him on the pitch and he’s rolling all over the place like he’s been shot. It’s about time Fifa started acting on this.
I’m pleased with this. Eduardo could have his legs chopped clean off in a tackle and he wouldn’t win a pen now.
Someone made the point last season about Ballack. If I threw a punch at him in a club on a Saturday night, he probably wouldn’t even flinch but touch him on the pitch and he’s rolling all over the place like he’s been shot. It’s about time Fifa started acting on this.
Nick Entwistle
10 Posted 28/08/2009 at 14:37:01
10 Posted 28/08/2009 at 14:37:01
Dan do you really think Eduardo went down due to a slight touch?
Rugby players would laugh at this.
Rugby players would laugh at this.
Ciarán McGlone
11 Posted 28/08/2009 at 14:40:40
11 Posted 28/08/2009 at 14:40:40
The other side of this - as rightly brought up - is where does it stop?
Professional fouls, taking out a player without trying for the ball, obstruction etc etc...could all be construed as cheating..
Or how about this one...when a player is fouled but hams it up as more serious than it actually was...That’s cheating..how is that handled?
It’s a minefield.
Professional fouls, taking out a player without trying for the ball, obstruction etc etc...could all be construed as cheating..
Or how about this one...when a player is fouled but hams it up as more serious than it actually was...That’s cheating..how is that handled?
It’s a minefield.
Malcolm Evans
12 Posted 28/08/2009 at 14:42:04
12 Posted 28/08/2009 at 14:42:04
Im all for keeping the decisions in the hands of the refs and linesmen. If a goal is scored and ruled out for offside when it wasnt off then linemans mistake, u take it on the chin. Im not even sure about goal line technology to see if a ball crossed the line or not. I think all these decisions are what makes football so good and gives us things to talk about, or cry about.
But blatant diving needs to be sorted out. Weve all played football, if ur jumping out the way of the keepers challenge you just jump and stay on your feet.
Eduardo’s was a blatant dive in an attempt to win a penalty, there was no contact by the keeper so he shouldnt of been stretched out on the floor.
Im sure it will only be the real blatant dives where there is no contact between the players that this post match evidence will be necessary.
Anyway this can only be good news for all of us surely as no Everton player ever dives!!!
But blatant diving needs to be sorted out. Weve all played football, if ur jumping out the way of the keepers challenge you just jump and stay on your feet.
Eduardo’s was a blatant dive in an attempt to win a penalty, there was no contact by the keeper so he shouldnt of been stretched out on the floor.
Im sure it will only be the real blatant dives where there is no contact between the players that this post match evidence will be necessary.
Anyway this can only be good news for all of us surely as no Everton player ever dives!!!
Tony Doran
13 Posted 28/08/2009 at 14:49:23
13 Posted 28/08/2009 at 14:49:23
Don’t agree with afterthought’s by these officials but as has already been said, between Wenger and Mourino they slated Andy johnson to such an extent Moyes had to call in the FA to have a look at some penalty decision’s we never got and even they had to admit we should of had a shed load.
But i’m afraid it was to late for AJ as mud sticks. So take your quotes of the time and work them on your player Wenger.
But i’m afraid it was to late for AJ as mud sticks. So take your quotes of the time and work them on your player Wenger.
Dan McKie
14 Posted 28/08/2009 at 14:43:25
14 Posted 28/08/2009 at 14:43:25
I dont know if he was touched or not, but what I was saying was that it only takes a little clip to the foot when you are running at pace to take you down. You aint allowed to kick a leg out at a rugby player if he has gone past you, if you could then they would never score, and most players stand up to shoulder tackles in football. The angle from which the referee saw the incident, it looked like a penalty, so he gave it, thats all he could do! I doubt Eduardo will get a ban, because like I said before, he didnt appeal for a penalty. Also, why a 2 game ban? If he had been punished at the time of the incident for diving, he would have been given a yellow card! So why because it wasnt found out until later he is given the equivelent of 2 straight reds?
Malcolm Evans
15 Posted 28/08/2009 at 14:58:33
15 Posted 28/08/2009 at 14:58:33
A straight red is a 3 game ban is it not??
Or have i got that wrong?
Or have i got that wrong?
Dan McKie
16 Posted 28/08/2009 at 14:59:28
16 Posted 28/08/2009 at 14:59:28
Its a 3 game ban if it is violent conduct. Hibbert will only be banned for 1 game for his sending off the other night.
James Boden
17 Posted 28/08/2009 at 15:18:15
17 Posted 28/08/2009 at 15:18:15
The slightest touch and these tarts are rolling around crying. Although I am not in any way or form a fan of Rugby (infact I can’t stand it) at least the players there are not softies and won’t react as though they have been shot. And as for Eduardo I am meant to have sympathy for him cause he broke his leg, but yet it is ok for him to fall to the ground purposedly in the box.
Mike McLean
18 Posted 28/08/2009 at 15:29:29
18 Posted 28/08/2009 at 15:29:29
Alan Clarke asks if Hibbert should be punished for Sunday’s "penalty".
Absolutely.
A 36 game ban sounds about right to me.
Absolutely.
A 36 game ban sounds about right to me.
Peter Keating
19 Posted 28/08/2009 at 15:44:57
19 Posted 28/08/2009 at 15:44:57
I say what goes around come around for Arsene Wenger. Like many of you have said he ruined Andy Johnson for us and we never got a penalty all season.
I can’t believe the amount of Arsenal fans moaning that Eduardo is being banned for diving. But the thing is he still won them the penalty, he scored, although they were miles ahead in the game anyway qualified for the group stages of the Champions League where they will earn millions. A 2 game ban is it really enough? The amount of penalty decisions we should have had that season could well have put us into a Champions League place and we may now be in a better financial position from the millions of pounds the clubs get.
Yes it is time all divers get punished and so should the clubs as there is too much of it now. Even Tony Hibbert did it the other week! He should be banned for life!
I can’t believe the amount of Arsenal fans moaning that Eduardo is being banned for diving. But the thing is he still won them the penalty, he scored, although they were miles ahead in the game anyway qualified for the group stages of the Champions League where they will earn millions. A 2 game ban is it really enough? The amount of penalty decisions we should have had that season could well have put us into a Champions League place and we may now be in a better financial position from the millions of pounds the clubs get.
Yes it is time all divers get punished and so should the clubs as there is too much of it now. Even Tony Hibbert did it the other week! He should be banned for life!
Ray Roche
20 Posted 28/08/2009 at 16:02:50
20 Posted 28/08/2009 at 16:02:50
If the FA, UEFA etc. are going to use video evidence maybe they should take a really good look at the holding and shirt pulling that goes on in the penalty box at every corner and freekick. A defender hardly ever looks at the ball, just the man he’s marking . What happened to the "keep your eye on the ball at all times" outlook that we were coached with? If refs gave a penalty for each holding offence, even if it was 5 or 6 in the first game after such a ruling was brought in, it would stop in no time.
Dan McKie
21 Posted 28/08/2009 at 16:21:00
21 Posted 28/08/2009 at 16:21:00
So diving and not getting a penalty is a yellow card, diving and not getting a freekick anywhere else on the pitch, you get told to get up by the ref and play goes on, but diving and the ref awarding the penalty and its a 2 game ban once video evidence has been viewed? Something not right there!
Andy Crooks
22 Posted 28/08/2009 at 16:37:48
22 Posted 28/08/2009 at 16:37:48
Eduardo and other divers ,including our ow,are cheats.However it is really nothing compared to the assault perpetrated by Kevin Nolan on Victor Anchibe.Nolan’s "punishment" was a disgrace.
Aiden Doyle
23 Posted 28/08/2009 at 16:53:45
23 Posted 28/08/2009 at 16:53:45
Dan, the referee’s decision IS final, even in this case. UEFA aren’t challenging the decision: the decision stands, as does the goal. What UEFA are saying is that Eduardo made a deliberate attempt to deceive the match-day officials which, in itself, is a breach of regulations, whether or not it is perceived by the referee at the time.
If UEFA’s decision today helps to stamp out stuff like this…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HleeT_8FBrg
… I’m all in favour.
If UEFA’s decision today helps to stamp out stuff like this…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HleeT_8FBrg
… I’m all in favour.
Nick Entwistle
24 Posted 28/08/2009 at 17:14:00
24 Posted 28/08/2009 at 17:14:00
How about this one Aiden...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ioyt2zzm530&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ioyt2zzm530&feature=related
Aiden Doyle
25 Posted 28/08/2009 at 17:25:09
25 Posted 28/08/2009 at 17:25:09
Thanks Nick. I’d actually stumbled across that one whilst I was looking for the Pedersen clip. I thought about posting it too, but I’m not enough of a sadist to subject people to the soundtrack. You utter, utter b******!
Dan McKie
26 Posted 28/08/2009 at 17:28:17
26 Posted 28/08/2009 at 17:28:17
Aiden, of course they are challenging the refs decision, they are saying he was tricked into giving the penalty, thus should not have given it in the first place and instead, yellow carded Eduardo for a dive. What I dont get is why the big fuss over this one? Like it has never happened before, or that all previous dives weren’t an attempt at conning the referee. As I mentioned before too, Eduardo did not appeal for a penalty, it was given instantly by the ref even before he had finished going down, so who is to say he would have claimed one? He may have just fallen over as he stretched for the ball for all we know, which is not an offence!
Aiden Doyle
27 Posted 28/08/2009 at 17:53:44
27 Posted 28/08/2009 at 17:53:44
Once again Dan, the referee’s decision is NOT being challenged: the decision stands and the official is not being censured for it in any way.
In essence UEFA are saying the referee made an acceptable decision given the information available to him – and that Eduardo made a conscious effort to distort the information that was perceived by the match official in order to gain an unfair advantage over his opponents. In football terms, that’s illegal and is potentially subject to post-match intervention.
Admittedly, it’s far less elaborate or premeditated but, in principle, conning a referee by diving is little different to what the Harlequins rugby team attempted with the blood capsule. It’s not “a part of the game” as some would claim; it’s cheating and needs to be eradicated.
As for why now, when we all know it’s been going on for ages? I’m guessing that UEFA’s forthcoming experiment with 5 match-day officials may be a factor. An incident like this can be used to support Platini’s view that effective refereeing is best achieved when the match is overseen by more eyes from a greater number of perspectives.
In essence UEFA are saying the referee made an acceptable decision given the information available to him – and that Eduardo made a conscious effort to distort the information that was perceived by the match official in order to gain an unfair advantage over his opponents. In football terms, that’s illegal and is potentially subject to post-match intervention.
Admittedly, it’s far less elaborate or premeditated but, in principle, conning a referee by diving is little different to what the Harlequins rugby team attempted with the blood capsule. It’s not “a part of the game” as some would claim; it’s cheating and needs to be eradicated.
As for why now, when we all know it’s been going on for ages? I’m guessing that UEFA’s forthcoming experiment with 5 match-day officials may be a factor. An incident like this can be used to support Platini’s view that effective refereeing is best achieved when the match is overseen by more eyes from a greater number of perspectives.
Pete Gunby
28 Posted 28/08/2009 at 18:55:37
28 Posted 28/08/2009 at 18:55:37
Let’s not get carried away with our comparisions to rugby. They have a cheating/injury faking issue of thier own.
Aiden Doyle
29 Posted 28/08/2009 at 19:16:09
29 Posted 28/08/2009 at 19:16:09
I can’t disagree with that Pete. I just used an extremely over-the-top example to illustrate a principle: deliberately deceiving an official in order to affect the outcome of a match should be dealt with severely.
To my mind, the issue isn’t why are players like Eduardo being punished? … It’s why has it taken so long?
To my mind, the issue isn’t why are players like Eduardo being punished? … It’s why has it taken so long?
Antony Matthews
30 Posted 28/08/2009 at 20:45:13
30 Posted 28/08/2009 at 20:45:13
The Chumps that run the game make the rules up as they go along. Look at Gerrard's dive in the FA cup a few years ago. The player didn't touch him but a penalty was given because of INTENT? How the hell are you going to punish a player if the player pleads he was off balance? I suppose it depends on wether your club has a good barrister. Hope we have OJ Simpsons!
Frankie Fannon
31 Posted 28/08/2009 at 22:42:36
31 Posted 28/08/2009 at 22:42:36
How about this for a solution to diving and abusing ref’s etc ....
Football needs to make use of the fourth ref in the stands. However the Ref in the middle of the pitch likes to take full control of the game so a compromise has to be reached.
So firstly I say if the referee is not 100 % certain that it is a penaly then it can not be given. However like Tennis the team captain can ask the ref to get the fourth official to review it. They can only do this Twice in the game - The ref just points to the stand and the fourth official reviews it and gives a Yay or Nay. If it’s a pen it is given - If it is not then it’s a free kick to the other team.
So imagine the shite need to get a result in the last game of the season to stay up. Lady boy goes down ( ahem ) in the 89th minute and it looks like a pen - the ref is 95% certain it’s a pen but because he is not 100% certain he refers it to the 4th official - The 4th official can’t look at it as the cheating bastard Gerrard has already tried twice to win a pen. ( Sounds good doesn’t it ? ) I think it will add on only a couple of minutes to a game - Oh and also at the end of every match the fourth official has to give an interview as to why he has or has not given the decision.
On top of this If the referee is 100% certain it is not a penalty but a dive then how about giving the opposition a penalty.
Obviously we will have sold Hibbert before this rule comes in !!!
I await your abuse !!!!
Football needs to make use of the fourth ref in the stands. However the Ref in the middle of the pitch likes to take full control of the game so a compromise has to be reached.
So firstly I say if the referee is not 100 % certain that it is a penaly then it can not be given. However like Tennis the team captain can ask the ref to get the fourth official to review it. They can only do this Twice in the game - The ref just points to the stand and the fourth official reviews it and gives a Yay or Nay. If it’s a pen it is given - If it is not then it’s a free kick to the other team.
So imagine the shite need to get a result in the last game of the season to stay up. Lady boy goes down ( ahem ) in the 89th minute and it looks like a pen - the ref is 95% certain it’s a pen but because he is not 100% certain he refers it to the 4th official - The 4th official can’t look at it as the cheating bastard Gerrard has already tried twice to win a pen. ( Sounds good doesn’t it ? ) I think it will add on only a couple of minutes to a game - Oh and also at the end of every match the fourth official has to give an interview as to why he has or has not given the decision.
On top of this If the referee is 100% certain it is not a penalty but a dive then how about giving the opposition a penalty.
Obviously we will have sold Hibbert before this rule comes in !!!
I await your abuse !!!!
Steve Guy
32 Posted 29/08/2009 at 07:04:20
32 Posted 29/08/2009 at 07:04:20
Poor Arsene Wenger. After again doing his Mr Magoo impression over Eduardo's disgraceful dive midweek, he unfortunately forgot that the camera never lies and is having an absolute hissy fit over Uefa subsequently charging the player with "deceiving the referee".
Says Wenger, "I find it a complete disgrace... It singles out a player to be a cheat and that is not acceptable. We will not accept the way Uefa has treated this... this charge implies there was intent and a desire to cheat the referee. Having seen the pictures again, nothing is conclusive... It's a witch-hunt that we see and not an objective judgement of a case."
Well boo-hoo Mr Magoo, what goes around comes around and I hope Eduardo is now singled out for the treatment subsequently given to Andy Johnson by referees following your very own 'witch-hunt' a few years back.
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1 Posted 28/08/2009 at 14:01:04
Not nice when the boot's on the other foot, is it Mr Wenger?